Finishing john block tales - new block tales help thread

[Delusionaltx2]

Looking for more people to help with the profile (mainly calcs)

Delusionaltx2/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mostly done with the basis although I am trying to see if I can fix minor problems with explanations for certain abilities. Added input would be appreciated!

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I'd say atm it's like 60-70% done

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Finished powers and abilities

 

[IDK3465]

I just noticed the player is literally named Jon canonically, so Jon Block Tales actually makes sense
Ts so peak

 

[AppleMaker]

I just noticed the player is literally named Jon canonically, so Jon Block Tales actually makes sense
Ts so peak

Wait, really? I probably missed something

 

[IDK3465]

Anyway, given what was discussed in this thread, the whole "abstract things being able to regenerate themselves counts as godly bny default" thing is under some scrutiny, so I'd hold off on adding it to Hatred for now until that whole situation is worked out

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I just noticed the player is literally named Jon canonically, so Jon Block Tales actually makes sense
Ts so peak

I was literally laughing my a** off when I found out his name might actually be jon

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Anyway, given what was discussed in this thread, the whole "abstract things being able to regenerate themselves counts as godly bny default" thing is under some scrutiny, so I'd hold off on adding it to Hatred for now until that whole situation is worked out

Oh yeah I forgot about that

Pretty sure besides that the whole "mental world is both mental and spiritual" thing still stands tho right? If that's the case then they should still get like mid godly healing no?

 

[IDK3465]

Oh yeah I forgot about that

Pretty sure besides that the whole "mental world is both mental and spiritual" thing still stands tho right? If that's the case then they should still get like mid godly healing no?

Eh, the healing tiers fall under the same rules as regen, and it isn’t exactly clear as of now where simply existing as a mental/spiritual/abstract/whatever being and healing would qualify. so I’d hold off on that as well.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Eh, the healing tiers fall under the same rules as regen,

Yeah ik, it's just that in their case their healing allows them to heal mental and spiritual dmg

and it isn’t exactly clear as of now where simply existing as a mental/spiritual/abstract/whatever being and healing would qualify. so I’d hold off on that as well.

Actually, mental world is shown to be both mental and spiritual while also being non physical since you not only traverse your own mind but also have to purify your mind and soul in order to get out in the first place which is done through killing your negative emotions (implying each of them are mental and spiritual). Lost souls are also shown to exist in mental world, said lost souls likely being previous victims to the ghostwalker sword so there's that too.

Edit: the confirmation on it being non physical comes from the fact that your physical body at the end of the chapter is still revealed to be just lying there after dying

 

[IDK3465]

Yeah ik, it's just that in their case their healing allows them to heal mental and spiritual dmg

Actually, mental world is shown to be both mental and spiritual while also being non physical since you not only traverse your own mind but also have to purify your mind and soul in order to get out in the first place which is done through killing your negative emotions (implying each of them are mental and spiritual). Lost souls are also shown to exist in mental world, said lost souls likely being previous victims to the ghostwalker sword so there's that too.

Edit: the confirmation on it being non physical comes from the fact that your physical body at the end of the chapter is still revealed to be just lying there after dying

I’m not against the whole mental and spiritual stuff, that’s very evident, the problem is that it isn’t clear where existing as/healing just your mind and soul and not physical body counts atm, and I just wanted to say we should hold back on adding it until things are clarified

 

[AppleMaker]

I finally beaten Block tales with Gusto and Hard mode

 

[AppleMaker]

I don't know, should I try to do it with EVERY other handicap, it seems like borderline impossible in solo

 

[Gamecooob]

bro ROBLOX is getting CRACKED
We got this AND John CGP on the way

 

[AppleMaker]

bro ROBLOX is getting CRACKED
We got this AND John CGP on the way

Also did someone made some calcs for John Combat initiation? If not, I'll try to contribute (most likely would get lazy and won't do anything at all)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I’m not against the whole mental and spiritual stuff, that’s very evident, the problem is that it isn’t clear where existing as/healing just your mind and soul and not physical body counts atm, and I just wanted to say we should hold back on adding it until things are clarified

Hmm, are you saying that it's unclear if it can heal the mind, soul, and body at the same time since in mental world you are only healing your mind, and soul from damage?

 

[AppleMaker]

John Combat initiation

I think I could get him to something like Building or City block

 

[Delusionaltx2]

bro ROBLOX is getting CRACKED

Wdym? This ain't broken at all, trust

We got this AND John CGP on the way

Lowkey John combat initiation could be pretty high into tier 8 since he has a BUNCH of weapons.

Def would be looking forward to working on him and John parry after this

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also did someone made some calcs for John Combat initiation? If not, I'll try to contribute (most likely would get lazy and won't do anything at all)

Jcp should bare minimum be building lvl even without calcs since he can fight tanks which are listed as building lvl on site

With calcs he might be large building - city block

 

[AppleMaker]

Anyways it would be good to know exact values of his ap and durability

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465

Hmm, are you saying that it's unclear if it can heal the mind, soul, and body at the same time since in mental world you are only healing your mind, and soul from damage?

 

[IDK3465]

Hmm, are you saying that it's unclear if it can heal the mind, soul, and body at the same time since in mental world you are only healing your mind, and soul from damage?

Yeah, pretty much

Also apparently you need to come back from the complete destruction of your mind, body, and soul in order to qualify for mid godly (at least, according to the regen page) so it might just be low godly in the end even if you don’t need to heal your physical body to qualify…

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah, pretty much

Body - can heal the player from low health even against enemies that normally don't have soul based attacks (literally nobody in prologue has this)

Mind and soul - can heal the player from characters that exist on a mental and spiritual lvl

Even if you wanted to argue on these feats both being separate they still apply to the same forms of healing and if said forms of healing has been established to work on a mental and spiritual lvl as well as a physical one it makes no sense to assume it wouldn't work on all three at the same time since nothing really substantiates that limitation in the first place.

Also apparently you need to come back from the complete destruction of your mind, body, and soul in order to qualify for mid godly (at least, according to the regen page) so it might just be low godly in the end even if you don’t need to heal your physical body to qualify…

You can heal from hatreds attacks while taking mortal damage from them which occurs when you take enough damage to where your hp reaches zero therefore implying regen from death/destruction.

You can also use cards like resurrect on hatred after dying to come back mid fight so that supports mid to high godly resurrection as well

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I do agree on your point about high godly healing being more contentious tho since that relies on accepting hatred as a type 1 concept first so I'll just switch that stuff to mid godly (which looks a lot more straight forward)

 

[IDK3465]

Body - can heal the player from low health even against enemies that normally don't have soul based attacks (literally nobody in prologue has this)

Mind and soul - can heal the player from characters that exist on a mental and spiritual lvl

Even if you wanted to argue on these feats both being separate they still apply to the same forms of healing and if said forms of healing has been established to work on a mental and spiritual lvl as well as a physical one it makes no sense to assume it wouldn't work on all three at the same time since nothing really substantiates that limitation in the first place.

You can heal from hatreds attacks while taking mortal damage from them which occurs when you take enough damage to where your hp reaches zero therefore implying regen from death/destruction.

You can also use cards like resurrect on hatred after dying to come back mid fight so that supports mid to high godly resurrection as well

Yeah, I can see that actually, for now, I agree with mid-godly given the points you raised

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Fixed the improved healing section for post gw.

Also found some new things I wanted to add to the profile for abilities

Late Demo 4 should gain access to minor soul manipulation (Soul based dura neg) and improved elemental intangibility negation (glasses) since they can fight the ancients. The ancients are implied to be the souls of an ancient civilization sealed within the firebrand. I say the souls because when captain trotter was sacrificed it was stated directly by the ancients themselves that his soul was now a part of them and later on again stated that his soul was sealed in the firebrand. The player can still harm the ancients while their souls are inside the firebrand so they would have to bypass the firebrand directly to effect them which should qualify for soul based dura neg.

The player should also gain improved elemental intangibility negation for gassess since the ancients after dying are shown to disperse as fire which implies what we see as their physical appearance is made out of fire which makes sense once we account the fact that the souls are stated to be inside the firebrand.

Sword energy should also be seen as a blitz one shot difference since Mayor Nathaniel was able to make "quick work" of bandits after using the venomshank. For reference average bandits are strong enough to the point where blue wasn't sure if she could take on more than two of them even with reds help. Red and blue scaling to the players prologue key would mean they should be 9B and subsonic so bandits should individually downscale but still scale to this value. This means mayor thananiel received an amp made him strong enough to casually handle subsonic 9B characters despite being just an old man

Tl;dr: For the player/Calypso to fight the ancients and actively damage them they would have to be capable of interacting with fire while also being able to damage the souls inside the firebrand therefore they gain soul based dura neg and elemental intangibility negation for gassess. Old people can jump to casually 9B with subsonic speed through sword energy amps so it should be assumed (to avoid calc stacking ofc) that sword energy is a blitz and one shot difference.

Side note: Npi for solids and gassess might be a better way to describe this in oppose to "elemental intangibility negation"

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465 what are your thoughts on this?

Fixed the improved healing section for post gw.

Also found some new things I wanted to add to the profile for abilities

Late Demo 4 should gain access to minor soul manipulation (Soul based dura neg) and improved elemental intangibility negation (glasses) since they can fight the ancients. The ancients are implied to be the souls of an ancient civilization sealed within the firebrand. I say the souls because when captain trotter was sacrificed it was stated directly by the ancients themselves that his soul was now a part of them and later on again stated that his soul was sealed in the firebrand. The player can still harm the ancients while their souls are inside the firebrand so they would have to bypass the firebrand directly to effect them which should qualify for soul based dura neg.

The player should also gain improved elemental intangibility negation for gassess since the ancients after dying are shown to disperse as fire which implies what we see as their physical appearance is made out of fire which makes sense once we account the fact that the souls are stated to be inside the firebrand.

Sword energy should also be seen as a blitz one shot difference since Mayor Nathaniel was able to make "quick work" of bandits after using the venomshank. For reference average bandits are strong enough to the point where blue wasn't sure if she could take on more than two of them even with reds help. Red and blue scaling to the players prologue key would mean they should be 9B and subsonic so bandits should individually downscale but still scale to this value. This means mayor thananiel received an amp made him strong enough to casually handle subsonic 9B characters despite being just an old man

Tl;dr: For the player/Calypso to fight the ancients and actively damage them they would have to be capable of interacting with fire while also being able to damage the souls inside the firebrand therefore they gain soul based dura neg and elemental intangibility negation for gassess. Old people can jump to casually 9B with subsonic speed through sword energy amps so it should be assumed that sword energy is a blitz and one shot difference.

Side note: Npi for solids and gassess might be a better way to describe this in oppose to "elemental intangibility negation"

 

[IDK3465]

Fixed the improved healing section for post gw.

Also found some new things I wanted to add to the profile for abilities

Late Demo 4 should gain access to minor soul manipulation (Soul based dura neg) and improved elemental intangibility negation (glasses) since they can fight the ancients. The ancients are implied to be the souls of an ancient civilization sealed within the firebrand. I say the souls because when captain trotter was sacrificed it was stated directly by the ancients themselves that his soul was now a part of them and later on again stated that his soul was sealed in the firebrand. The player can still harm the ancients while their souls are inside the firebrand so they would have to bypass the firebrand directly to effect them which should qualify for soul based dura neg.

The player should also gain improved elemental intangibility negation for gassess since the ancients after dying are shown to disperse as fire which implies what we see as their physical appearance is made out of fire which makes sense once we account the fact that the souls are stated to be inside the firebrand.

Sword energy should also be seen as a blitz one shot difference since Mayor Nathaniel was able to make "quick work" of bandits after using the venomshank. For reference average bandits are strong enough to the point where blue wasn't sure if she could take on more than two of them even with reds help. Red and blue scaling to the players prologue key would mean they should be 9B and subsonic so bandits should individually downscale but still scale to this value. This means mayor thananiel received an amp made him strong enough to casually handle subsonic 9B characters despite being just an old man

Tl;dr: For the player/Calypso to fight the ancients and actively damage them they would have to be capable of interacting with fire while also being able to damage the souls inside the firebrand therefore they gain soul based dura neg and elemental intangibility negation for gassess. Old people can jump to casually 9B with subsonic speed through sword energy amps so it should be assumed (to avoid calc stacking ofc) that sword energy is a blitz and one shot difference.

Side note: Npi for solids and gassess might be a better way to describe this in oppose to "elemental intangibility negation"

I’m ok with the soul/elemental NPI, but as for the sword energy amp, I don’t really understand what you’re saying because all this does is confirm that the venomshank is far above 9-B, and given how it already scales to 7-B, this doesn’t really change the scaling at all. The speed might be something, but at the same time, it’s not like it acts like a multiplier to ones already existing speed, it just brings the user to its level, so I don’t think we should assume the player can always buff their speed to a blitz using SE

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I’m ok with the soul/elemental NPI, but as for the sword energy amp, I don’t really understand what you’re saying because all this does is confirm that the venomshank is far above 9-B, and given how it already scales to 7-B, this doesn’t really change the scaling at all. The speed might be something, but at the same time, it’s not like it acts like a multiplier to ones already existing speed, it just brings the user to its level, so I don’t think we should assume the player can always buff their speed to a blitz using SE

So basically soul based dura neg and elemental intangibility stuff is ok but since we don't know if sword energy is an additive increase (you + venomshank) or a multiplier then we can't say it's a blitz amp.

That's a fair point tbh. Now that I think about it, I'm gonna change the SE amp to ''even higher" then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465 quick question though, if we were to assume that the amp was additive then wouldn't that mean their value scales 2x above their normal value by the end of demo 2?

Venomshank ~ ice dagger (13.69 megatons)

Base griefer ~< Player (end of demo 1/early demo 2) > cruel king with the ice dagger (13.69 megatons)

Base greifer (13.69 megatons) + venomshank (13.69 megatons) = greifer with venomshank (27.38 megatons)

Reason why I'm saying base greifer scales to the player is because he can deflect the players superball attack and can also fight them later on. If SE is an additive increase then this should check out no?

 

[IDK3465]

@IDK3465 quick question though, if we were to assume that the amp was additive then wouldn't that mean their value scales 2x above their normal value by the end of demo 2?

Venomshank ~ ice dagger (13.69 megatons)

Base griefer ~< Player (end of demo 1/early demo 2) > cruel king with the ice dagger (13.69 megatons)

Base greifer (13.69 megatons) + venomshank (13.69 megatons) = greifer with venomshank (27.38 megatons)

Reason why I'm saying base greifer scales to the player is because he can deflect the players superball attack and can also fight them later on. If SE is an additive increase then this should check out no?

I see where your head’s at, but unfortunately I don’t think this is how it works:

Your total strength isn’t simply the power of you physically and your weapon combined, but rather just depends on the individual power of what you’re using to attack. Like, let’s say I gave Goku a regular ass gun, does that mean the gun suddenly has the power of both Goku and itself combined? No, doesn’t make a difference if it’s wielded by a regular dude or Goku, it’s still just a gun and hasn’t changed. The Griefer’s strength with the venomshank isn’t the combined strength of the two, it’s just whatever one is stronger than the other (with that being the venomshank as Griefer hasn’t shown any signs of growing stronger himself before fighting the player.)

As such: Griefer w/ venomshank power = venomshank = late ch 2 player > early ch 2 player = 13.69 Mt

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I see where your head’s at, but unfortunately I don’t think this is how it works:

Your total strength isn’t simply the power of you physically and your weapon combined, but rather just depends on the individual power of what you’re using to attack. Like, let’s say I gave Goku a regular ass gun, does that mean the gun suddenly has the power of both Goku and itself combined? No, doesn’t make a difference if it’s wielded by a regular dude or Goku, it’s still just a gun and hasn’t changed.The Griefer’s strength with the venomshank isn’t the combined strength of the two, it’s just whatever one is stronger than the other (with that being the venomshank as Griefer hasn’t shown any signs of growing stronger himself before fighting the player.)

As such: Griefer w/ venomshank power = venomshank = late ch 2 player > early ch 2 player = 13.69 Mt

I get what your saying but you're forgetting that they're not just using the weapons, their amping themselves with them on top of their base state. Regarding the analogy earlier, normal guns don't really give physical buffs to ap, they just give a person a means of hitting harder than they normally can using the weapon itself since their physical ap is 10B and the gun is like 9C (When applied to goku it's more like he's hitting less harder though since the gun is like 9C and goku is 2C).

In this scenario however both greifer and the venomshank scales to 7B, not only that but the venomshank is amping greifer with its own power so it's 7B power stacked on top of the ap of a 7B character.

Edit: sorry for the slight grammatical mistake, I'm currently acting on my phone instead of my PC (massive L on my part)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

@IDK3465 I might have found something rq

So when hatred uses pk lightning, if you pay attention to the top of his head you can see him conducting his own electricity for about a second before he actually brings it down towards the player (you can even see it move in the same downwards direction his own attack does by the time he fires it). The lightning hatred is manipulating is cloud to ground lightning so this should mean that hatred should be able to resist hot temperatures up to lightning since he's conducting said lightning through his body for about a second without being burned no?

If hatred does gain a resistance to temperatures up to lightning then this should mean that burn status scales above lightning in heat since burn has a 100% proc rate against him.

 

[AppleMaker]

@IDK3465 I might have found something rq

So when hatred uses pk lightning, if you pay attention to the top of his head you can see him conducting his own electricity for about a second before he actually brings it down towards the player (you can even see it move in the same downwards direction his own attack does by the time he fires it). The lightning hatred is manipulating is cloud to ground lightning so this should mean that hatred should be able to resist hot temperatures up to lightning since he's conducting said lightning through his body for about a second without being burned no?

If hatred does gain a resistance to temperatures up to lightning then this should mean that burn status scales above lightning in heat since burn has a 100% proc rate against him.

Also Hatred's dimension have A LOT of fires, so that's also suggests that Hatred and other beings resist heat to some extent

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Alright guys I've been really trying to evaluate the scaling regarding demo 1 and I just wanna inform you guys on what I think the current status of John block tales should be.

Initially since cruel king made a snowstorm with a weird timeframe I decided to use the bare minimum first for the sake of conservativuty which was one night, calculating this got the feat to 8B.

After this I decided to look up stuff to see if I could get a better timeframe then I came across a very important line of information which was that with snowstorms the amount of snow is 6 in in 12 hours. This is pretty important since in cruel kings case since the snowstorm was both made, and snowed enough to the point where it stoped increasing in inches all within 12 hours that would mean cruel king would have to have created this snowstorm in a fairly short timeframe otherwise it wouldn't make sense

For example if he created the snowclouds in about 1 hour then since the storm itself needs 12 hours to put in the full 6 inches of snow then by the time we get there the snowstorm should still have snow falling from the air yet it doesn't.

Therefore, we should just use vsbws timeframe of one minute and stick with the CAPE of the average snowstorm. I say the CAPE because all 3 methods are listed as different methods and atm we have nothing that suggests the use of a higher end method + vsb prefers we use cape for storm feats anyway in most cases

Doing this then cruel king and by extension the player reach 2.26 megatons (Small city level)

A bit of a nerf ik but this fits the wikis standards

 

[AppleMaker]

Alright guys I've been really trying ti evaluate the scaling regarding demo 1 and I just wanna inform you guys on what I think the current status of John block tales should be.

Initially since cruel king made a snowstorm with a weird timeframe I decided to use the bare minimum first for the sake of conservativuty which was one night, calculating this got the feat to 8B.

After this I decided to look up stuff to see if I could get a better timeframe then I came across a very important line of information which was that with snowstorms the amount of snow is 6 in in 12 hours. This is pretty important since in cruel kings case since the snowstorm was both made, and snowed enough to the point where it stoped increasing in inches all within 12 hours that would mean cruel king would have to have created this snowstorm in a fairly short timeframe otherwise it wouldn't make sense

For example if he created the snowclouds in about 1 hour then since the storm itself needs 12 hours to put in the full 6 inches of snow then by the time we get there the snowstorm should still have snow falling from the air yet it doesn't.

Therefore I propose the idea we use vsbws timeframe of one minute and stick with the CAPE of the average snowstorm. I say the CAPE because all 3 methods are listed as different methods and atm we have nothing that suggests the use of a higher end method + vsb prefers we use cape for storm feats anyway in most cases

Doing this then cruel king and by extension the player reach 2.26 megatons (Small city level)

A bit of a nerf ik but this fits the wikis standards and is easier to substanciate.

Well, should John Block tales be 7b after getting venomshank?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

^ @IDK3465 @AppleMaker

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Well, should John Block tales be 7b after getting venomshank?

Jumpscare of- (I thought y'all were busy)

Naw, we have no idea how the amp works so it's best to assume he just upscales

 

[Delusionaltx2]

More importantly I found some stuff for post gw
Funni calc

Island lvl top tiers

Also another thing I'd like to add is that I'll be changing the tiering to "6C possibly 4C" in oppose to using 5B since the stuff for 5B feels like it kinda supports 4C more and day and night cycles is a very concrete form of evidence for tier 4

Only prob now is that one could argue that mental world is an outlier since bro is jumping from tier 7 to tier 4 and nothing really makes tier 4 THAT consistent. Now while it is possible for more demos to drop with more consistent scaling for tier 4 (which is half of why it's still possibly) I think it's better to stick with island lvl since it's a lot less of a jump (tier 7 to tier 6) along with just giving more of a chance for consistency overall.

 

[IDK3465]

@IDK3465 I might have found something rq

So when hatred uses pk lightning, if you pay attention to the top of his head you can see him conducting his own electricity for about a second before he actually brings it down towards the player (you can even see it move in the same downwards direction his own attack does by the time he fires it). The lightning hatred is manipulating is cloud to ground lightning so this should mean that hatred should be able to resist hot temperatures up to lightning since he's conducting said lightning through his body for about a second without being burned no?

If hatred does gain a resistance to temperatures up to lightning then this should mean that burn status scales above lightning in heat since burn has a 100% proc rate against him.

I’ve seen people try to use Lightning to argue heat resistance and it doesn’t get accepted for one reason or another, so I’d recommend asking some staff wether this counts or not.

Alright guys I've been really trying to evaluate the scaling regarding demo 1 and I just wanna inform you guys on what I think the current status of John block tales should be.

Initially since cruel king made a snowstorm with a weird timeframe I decided to use the bare minimum first for the sake of conservativuty which was one night, calculating this got the feat to 8B.

After this I decided to look up stuff to see if I could get a better timeframe then I came across a very important line of information which was that with snowstorms the amount of snow is 6 in in 12 hours. This is pretty important since in cruel kings case since the snowstorm was both made, and snowed enough to the point where it stoped increasing in inches all within 12 hours that would mean cruel king would have to have created this snowstorm in a fairly short timeframe otherwise it wouldn't make sense

For example if he created the snowclouds in about 1 hour then since the storm itself needs 12 hours to put in the full 6 inches of snow then by the time we get there the snowstorm should still have snow falling from the air yet it doesn't.

Therefore, we should just use vsbws timeframe of one minute and stick with the CAPE of the average snowstorm. I say the CAPE because all 3 methods are listed as different methods and atm we have nothing that suggests the use of a higher end method + vsb prefers we use cape for storm feats anyway in most cases

Doing this then cruel king and by extension the player reach 2.26 megatons (Small city level)

A bit of a nerf ik but this fits the wikis standards

It should be noted that the common calc only assumes the distance to the horizon at ground level, where as here it’s at mountain height, which would drastically increase the size of the storm, so maybe it isn’t such a lost cause?

More importantly I found some stuff for post gw
Funni calc

Island lvl top tiers

Also another thing I'd like to add is that I'll be changing the tiering to "6C possibly 4C" in oppose to using 5B since the stuff for 5B feels like it kinda supports 4C more and day and night cycles is a very concrete form of evidence for tier 4

Only prob now is that one could argue that mental world is an outlier since bro is jumping from tier 7 to tier 4 and nothing really makes tier 4 THAT consistent. Now while it is possible for more demos to drop with more consistent scaling for tier 4 (which is half of why it's still possibly) I think it's better to stick with island lvl since it's a lot less of a jump (tier 7 to tier 6) along with just giving more of a chance for consistency overall.

I mean, there is that one Flocci statement which could make 4-C more consistent… also, good find in regards to the 6-C feat, nice to have SOMETHING else to work off of here