Sung jinwoo tier upgrade

[FinePoint]

Would the absolute being not scale to the numerous universes he created in the OG series?

If he does, then would no one scale even though they are stated to be able to destroy it all?

I meant Sung Jin-woo specifically.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I wonder if their are any good Sung Jin-Woo matchups after he gets this upgrade

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Cause he's already an extremely haxy character

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Though, you are still going for 2-B (Countless universes) so I have to ask:

I haven’t said 2-B besides the example . I have said low multi.

What evidence do you have that the universes mentioned to exist within the "universe" are spatiotemporally separated and also have significant size?

We know our universe is one of those dimensions which would still be enough for low multi. Then the fact that they are literally called universes.and separated by dimensional walls. There isn’t even any evidence debunking that.

Many of them are dungeons with small finite sizes. And like I mentioned before, they were all affected by the same Chalice of Rebirth reversing time.

They are stated to be whole other dimensions different from earths dimension. Having their own sun as well as space.so it obviously isn’t small.

Them being affected by time reversal LITERALLY doesn’t mean they are connected. Idk where you are getting this stuff from. It is literally just range. The god who created the multiverse has the range to stop time and reverse it. Literally just a multiversal reversal. Range. Suspended world in tensura affects all worlds. Multi+ timestop.

Chloe’s timetravel affects the world as well.multi+ range.

Other universes being affected isn’t an anti-feat since they literally have the range. It doesn’t mean universes are connected or anything like that

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Ok but where's space-time continuum statements, because without that I'm pretty sure this isn't even getting to Uni+ let alone Low-Multiversal

we need to know that the dimensions are space-time continuums

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I meant Sung Jin-woo specifically.

Jinwoo in the original series has 3 statements of destroying everything the absolute being created. (Numerous universes) everything on the first argument is og novel (everything I crossed out)

And another stating he is stronger than the people who killed god,

And monarchs have a statement of being born for the purpose of destroying all of existence.

 

[Phoenks]

I haven’t said 2-B besides the example . I have said low multi.

"countless universes" in the sense of space-times would be 2-B, not 2-C.

We know our universe is one of those dimensions which would still be enough for low multi. Then the fact that they are literally called universes.and separated by dimensional walls. There isn’t even any evidence debunking that.

It's not enough for Low Multi because again you aren't proving they are space-times.

"Dimensional walls" is spatial separation, not a temporal separation.

Chalice of Rebirth contradicts temporal separation since it affects all the dimensions with the same time reversal.

They are stated to be whole other dimensions different from earths dimension. Having their own sun as well as space.so it obviously isn’t small.

That is small. The universes have to be observable universe size. Pocket dimensions with stars are 4-A.

Them being affected by time reversal LITERALLY doesn’t mean they are connected. Idk where you are getting this stuff from. It is literally just range. The god who created the multiverse has the range to stop time and reverse it. Literally just a multiversal reversal. Range. Suspended world in tensura affects all worlds. Multi+ timestop.

This isn't tensura, this is Solo Leveling.

You can't just assume the highest interpretation. The general assumption would be that the worlds are spatially separate but still within the umbrella of the same timeline.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I meant Sung Jin-woo specifically.

If original novel isn’t uni or higher than it literally contradicts ragnorock.

Because for example Antares in the original is stated to be born to destroy all of existence (same for all monarchs)

And in ragnorock he lost his primordial darkness,becoming weaker than his OG self.

Yet in ragnorock even though he is stated to be weaker. He literally does an attack that is stated to be on the level of the Big Bang.

Which makes no sense if

Og series = island level> ragnorock = uni.
Just a blatant contradiction which can only happen if you ignore the originals series statements that outscale ragnorocks feats.

Which then makes the profiles entirely unusable because ragnorock uses the original series as a backstory.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Like the last thread, the whole countless universes flashing by just sounds like me watching a movie, not that I physically traveled through the whole movie. That aint speed

Also, pretty sure the itarim would be Low 2-C at best? The scan says they created countless universes but it doesn't say if they created them all in one go, one by one or all together poured power to fart them into existence

 

[Rogue_Forge]

If original novel isn’t uni or higher than it literally contradicts ragnorock.

Because for example Antares in the original is stated to be born to destroy all of existence (same for all monarchs)

And in ragnorock he lost his primordial darkness,becoming weaker than his OG self.

Yet in ragnorock even though he is stated to be weaker. He literally does an attack that is stated to be on the level of the Big Bang.

Which makes no sense if

Og series = island level> ragnorock = uni.
Just a blatant contradiction which can only happen if you ignore the originals series statements that outscale ragnorocks feats.

Which then makes the profiles entirely unusable because ragnorock uses the original series as a backstory.

Technically because Solo leveling is the main canon, if they contradict each other the original takes priority therefor downgrading ragnorock

But Jin-woo already has this on his profile anyways

The true power of the Shadow Monarch is a weapon meant to destroy everything that God created.

So he might be Uni already

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

"countless universes" in the sense of space-times would be 2-B, not 2-C.

Which is why I have been clearly saying numerous universes because that is what the Hangul means instead of countless.

It's not enough for Low Multi because again you aren't proving they are space-times.

I don’t need to . As per the standards. They are literally called universes. I don’t need to prove every little thing about them. OUR universe is literally one of them.we know how our universe scales. I don’t need to prove that.

• If they are outright called universes or stated to be the size of universes by a reliable source, they should be considered universes.

"Dimensional walls" is spatial separation, not a temporal separation.

Dimensional walls separate both. Seeing how they literally create rifts in space-time. Yet again i don’t need to prove it because they are outright stated to be universes. why am i supposed to prove that something that is stated to be a universe and has nothing contradicting it is a universe.

Chalice of Rebirth contradicts temporal separation since it affects all the dimensions with the same time reversal.

Oml that doesn’t contradict anything. Who told you that . Range EXISTS. Chalice of rebirth literally spreads and blocks out the world.simple solution is that it affected the world and therefore everything that is INSIDE the world is in its range to affect.

Why is god’s tool reversing time of his own world an anti-feat.

That is small. The universes have to be observable universe size. Pocket dimensions with stars are 4-A.

It isn’t a pocket dimension. It is a whole universe where people come from. OUR universe. Just straight up ignoring the standards.

This isn't tensura, this is Solo Leveling.

You can't just assume the highest interpretation. The general assumption would be that the worlds are spatially separate but still within the umbrella of the same timeline.

This isn’t the highest interpretation. It is the baseline assumption. If something is called a universe. I don’t see why i should be obligated to prove everything in it.

“Every multiversal timestop has to prove it is separated by barriers of space-time. That is the default assumption unless contradicted which it isn’t.


Btw just not going to reply to you again

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Technically because Solo leveling is the main canon, if they contradict each other the original takes priority therefor downgrading ragnorock

But Jin-woo already has this on his profile anyways

This is what I am trying to argue . God created numerous universes. And he can destroy them. It is literally on his profile already .and blatant

So he might be Uni already

 

[Rogue_Forge]

This is what I am trying to argue . God created numerous universes. And he can destroy them. It is literally on his profile already .and blatant

Yeah but you still haven't given us space-time continuum statements, for all we know he could just be destroying the universe (physical only)

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Last time I tried upgrading a series, that was stated to have characters make blasts larger than the universe and could destroy the universe, to Uni+ this is what an admin said

this is a physical universe and not a space-time continuum

So I'm just gonna use the same logic here and say its not a Space-Time Continuum

 

[Rogue_Forge]

So Universal or High Universal would be my opinion on how high sung jin-woo is

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Yeah but you still haven't given us space-time continuum statements, for all we know he could just be destroying the universe (physical only)

The absolute being created everything from nothingness, which we can obviously see time exists.and our universe is stated to have a timeline(literally what was reversed.so based on the fact that the absolute being created a timeline (spacetime continuum) and jinwoo can destroy said thing. Jinwoo would be destroying a spacetime continuum

 

[Rogue_Forge]

The absolute being created everything from nothingness, which we can obviously see time exists. And our universe is stated to have a timeline (literally what was reversed) so based on the fact that the absolute being created a timeline (spacetime continuum) and Jin-Woo can destroy said thing. Jin-Woo would be destroying a spacetime continuum.

btw, is it Sung Jin-Woo or Sung Jinwoo because iirc I've seen you do both (also I fixed the grammatical errors in your sentence)

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

btw, is it Sung Jin-Woo or Sung Jinwoo because iirc I've seen you do both (also I fixed the grammatical errors in your sentence)

Both.It is said both ways. (I was too lazy to do all that.)

 

[Vietthai96]

Being called universe mean universe, for low 2-c you need evidences of space-time, also

Like the last thread, the whole countless universes flashing by just sounds like me watching a movie, not that I physically traveled through the whole movie. That aint speed

Also, pretty sure the itarim would be Low 2-C at best? The scan says they created countless universes but it doesn't say if they created them all in one go, one by one or all together poured power to fart them into existence

No one address this???, Tony made a good point

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Being called universe mean universe, for low 2-c you need evidences of space-time, also

Universes in context to other dimensions should already be enough

No one address this???, Tony made a good point

I have explained it so many times.ashborn was showing jinwoo his memories of the war,at which point Jinwoo was SEEING the monarchs traveling through those universes looking for a new one.in order for this to be a memory, it had to have happened,making it so at one point the monarchs flew past those universes.making the scaling applicable due to the universes being something that actually existed,as well as the fact that the speed feat was something that happened in the past. Which would scale the feat to the monarchs and Ashborn. Chain scaling to Jinwoo due to gaining ashborns power.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I have explained it so many times.ashborn was showing jinwoo his memories of the war,at which point Jinwoo was SEEING the monarchs traveling through those universes looking for a new one.in order for this to be a memory, it had to have happened,making it so at one point the monarchs flew past those universes.making the scaling applicable due to the universes being something that actually existed,as well as the fact that the speed feat was something that happened in the past. Which would scale the feat to the monarchs and Ashborn. Chain scaling to Jinwoo due to gaining ashborns power.

Nothing there says he was showing him his memories tho, you should add that important piece of information to the scans.

To me, the scan makes it obvious he was seeing the whole footage at higher speeds, this is because the scan literally says "The sovereigns avoided the Rulers' detection and searched for a new world where they would nurture their army again"

The monarchs were doing this in a stealthy manner as they didn't have enough manpower to continue the war, moreover they should have inspected said worlds to nurture said armies and if they didn't find them and had to eventually reach a "certain planet" (I assume earth) then it definitely wasn't at infinite speeds.

Also, haven't these guys been fighting since the beginning of time? That also throws a wrentch against the whole infinite speed as they could have taken billions to reach earth.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

According to the vsbw page for universes

Being "Different Worlds, Realms, or Dimensions" requires more elaborate context

In fact the page pretty much says that being called a universe doesn't constitute Universal+

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Also

It should be recognized that travel between universes is not feasible unless through the use of a portal or similar unusual mechanisms. This is because it should be impossible for two distinct universes to be connected by a path that only goes through regular 3 dimensional space. Universes must be separated by something other than 3 dimensional distance or physical barriers, otherwise they would be considered to both be part of one large universe for our tiering purposes.

 

[Vietthai96]

Universes in context to other dimensions should already be enough

No, pocket dimensions and dimension that separate spatially is a thing, and you need to prove space-time is involved, if you have problem with it, the change the standard i guess

Also, from what you said, characters can physically travel between dimensions, so very likely anti-feat for spatio-temporal separation argument

Also i meant this part,

Also, pretty sure the itarim would be Low 2-C at best? The scan says they created countless universes but it doesn't say if they created them all in one go, one by one or all together poured power to fart them into existence

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I will respond later. About to sleep rn

 

[KaramcaS]

There are numereous 3-D spaces separated spatially and each one is called a Universe

Only the "Universe" in which the main events take place is defined as a real "Universe"

others are just small sized "Universes"

There is no evidence that all these Universes have completely separate space-time continuums so forget about anything Low Multiversal or above.

I couldn't see the scan where you said that the "God-s" who created the universes created from nothingness, from zero? Could you send it again, please?

There's no evidence that a universe as large as the universe was created without overtime. Yes, they can create universes instantly, but the universes they create instantly are always small, 3-D universes. We can't attribute them to a true Universal (3-A) universe. There's nothing definitive.

In summary: We dont know the creation time period of Universes that are the size of the Universe. So we can't give a universal tier. We know that universes created instantly are not the size of the universe, but are small, so we can't reconcile the two. As for the speed, we know that there is a gap between the Universes, but we do not know the size of the gap, etc. If you are going to calculate the speed, you can calculate the radius of the two Universes that are passing and add them together.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Nothing there says he was showing him his memories tho, you should add that important piece of information to the scans.

I see that no one at all even read the opening and aren’t reading the scans (I am not referring to you since I crossed out the opening) but my scans literally have 0 views. but to quote myself from the opening.


The statement about numerous universes was when Ashborn was showing jinwoo his memories of the war. This was done in eternal rest. A world where is is virtually omnipotent, where is is able to create,destroy,and change the world.the way Ashborn was showing jinwoo his memories was by actually manifesting them into existence within eternal rest (just like jinwoo creating the world).meaning that eternal rest is infinite size world that can contain numerous universes. So should at least scale to low multi as well.

To me, the scan makes it obvious he was seeing the whole footage at higher speeds, this is because the scan literally says "The sovereigns avoided the Rulers' detection and searched for a new world where they would nurture their army again"

We already have a timeframe of a maximum of 10 years. Since that is all the chalice reverses. Meaning that when time is reversed and they go back to their previous positions,they redo their travel through the gap to reach earth.(they have reached earth each time the timeline was reversed.)

The monarchs were doing this in a stealthy manner as they didn't have enough manpower to continue the war, moreover they should have inspected said worlds to nurture said armies and if they didn't find them and had to eventually reach a "certain planet" (I assume earth) then it definitely wasn't at infinite speeds.

They were fleeing,no need to hide, the rulers were behind them, the monarchs just flew to a very far universe. So it would take the rulers too long to find them.

Infinite speed is either traveling somewhere in zero time, or traveling an infinite distance in finite time. So here they simply traveled an infinite distance in a maximum of 10 years.

Also, haven't these guys been fighting since the beginning of time? That also throws a wrentch against the whole infinite speed as they could have taken billions to reach earth.

That wouldn’t debunk infinite speed btw. And they didn’t even start looking for earth until 50+ years ago, but time was reversed at least 5 times,so only 10 years have actually passed (they redid their same 10 years five times)

According to the vsbw page for universes

Also according to it.

• If they are outright called universes or stated to be the size of universes by a reliable source, they should be considered universes.

They are directly called universes. So it already meets the standards.

• If they're flat out stated to be entire timelines, then they are indeed alternate universes.

Our world is at least called that. So should still qualify.

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently estimated to be 93 billion light-years in diameter. In certain cosmologies, there can be many universes (usually causally disconnected) that form a greater whole called a multiverse - which similarly comprises all of space and time and its contents; as a consequence, "The Universe" and "multiverse" are often synonymous terms in such settings.

In fact the page pretty much says that being called a universe doesn't constitute Universal+

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It does when it is called a timeline.

No, pocket dimensions and dimension that separate spatially is a thing, and you need to prove space-time is involved, if you have problem with it, the change the standard i guess

Also, from what you said, characters can physically travel between dimensions, so very likely anti-feat for spatio-temporal separation argument

The most typical example is the presence of a higher dimensional space serving as a separator. In other words, two separate universes coexist in a four dimensional or even higher dimensional space, occupying different position along some additional dimensional axis. Therefore, in order to travel between such universes, the movement must be through the higher dimensional space between them. To summarize, two realms are separated through a higher dimension space if

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

Which is literally the case here as they are encompassed and separated by the dimensional gap. Which acts as a dimensional passageway

Also i meant this part,

I have only been arguing low multi this whole time.

There are numereous 3-D spaces separated spatially and each one is called a Universe

Only the "Universe" in which the main events take place is defined as a real "Universe"

others are just small sized "Universes"

Go ahead and prove those universes are small. They are all called universes within the same sentence.

There is no evidence that all these Universes have completely separate space-time continuums so forget about anything Low Multiversal or above.

I couldn't see the scan where you said that the "God-s" who created the universes created from nothingness, from zero? Could you send it again, please?

Everything returns to nothingness meaning that it had to have once been nothingness. Due to the fact that nothing else existed yet. And the absolute being created things after that.

There's no evidence that a universe as large as the universe was created without overtime. Yes, they can create universes instantly, but the universes they create instantly are always small, 3-D universes. We can't attribute them to a true Universal (3-A) universe. There's nothing definitive.

Go ahead and prove they are small . They are called universes . Just because they are contained within a bigger universe (multiverse) doesn’t make them small. That universe he created was a universe mirrored after suhos original world. And guess what? Solo leveling takes place in our world.

In summary: We dont know the creation time period of Universes that are the size of the Universe. So we can't give a universal tier. We know that universes created instantly are not the size of the universe, but are small, so we can't reconcile the two. As for the speed, we know that there is a gap between the Universes, but we do not know the size of the gap, etc. If you are going to calculate the speed, you can calculate the radius of the two Universes that are passing and add them together.

You genuinely just didn’t read.

Go ahead and prove the universes are small like you are claiming.

And the gap is LITERALLY stated to be infinite in size multiple times which I have provided evidence for

 

[Phoenks]

Go ahead and prove the universes are small like you are claiming.

The "universes" refer to dimensions/gates.

They are so small that something like the Demon's Castle from the OG is considered absolutely massive compared to them, when it is only multi-city-sized.

Even C, B, A, and S rank Gates are only ever shown to be individual caverns, dungeons, or planes without much else within them. Maybe a starry sky at best.

I don't see why you are being so disingenuous. You've read Solo Leveling, you KNOW these "universes" are absolutely tiny. They are never shown to be the size of universes which is why you're hanging onto this hope of a technicality that just being referred to as a "universe" is enough for them to qualify as real space-time continuums.

And that isn't even how it works. You have to prove they are all individual space-times. You do also need to prove they are universal in size because these dimensions are most often showcased as being extremely tiny and confined into individual dungeons.

There is no evidence that they are separate times. I don't know how many more times I need to bring up the Chalice of Rebirth. If something reversing time is able to reverse time across every single dimension simultaneously, including the gap between all of the dimensions, then that would lead me to believe they are not temporally separate from one another.

You can't just argue that the Chalice of Rebirth has multiversal range without first proving they are separate. That's completely backwards scaling.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The "universes" refer to dimensions/gates.

It refers to dimensions yes,not gates though since those are just portals.

They are so small that something like the Demon's Castle from the OG is considered absolutely massive compared to them, when it is only multi-city-sized.

this is in reference to INSTANCES dungeons, which are literally fake dungeons that only mirror the surrounding area such as the subway station. I don’t know why you are comparing this to actual high rank dungeons which are way bigger than instance dungeons and stated to be different worlds in different dimensions which are directly called universes . Also the demon castle isn’t even limited to the city, that was just all jinwoo could see. As it at least has a moon. (I am not saying that the demon castle is a universe, just proving it isn’t limited to the city) the demon realm on the other hand is definitely a universe.

Even C, B, A, and S rank Gates are only ever shown to be individual caverns, dungeons, or planes without much else within them. Maybe a starry sky at best.

Starry sky would make it multi solar, WITHOUT the fact it is literally called a universe. Yet again just because they only travel or see a certain distance doesn’t mean they are limited to that size when it is directly stated otherwise.

I don't see why you are being so disingenuous. You've read Solo Leveling, you KNOW these "universes" are absolutely tiny. They are never shown to be the size of universes which is why you're hanging onto this hope of a technicality that just being referred to as a "universe" is enough for them to qualify as real space-time continuums.

Nothing you have shown has proved that,said universes are literally other dimensions where other races occupy,they contain outerspace,suns,etc in fact suhos fight with itarim took place in one dimension that was part of the universe,and they were destroying planets,stars and constellations,and even nebula,so larger than solar systems , which you are claiming are ”small”


Just blatantly ignoring them being universes because you only need to clear a certain part of a dungeon to clear it, which somehow debunks the size,

I should clarify Dungeons are worlds INSIDE different dimensions.so the size of dungeons isn’t even relevant to the size of the dimension that holds it. (Yes my comments were correlating them in a few)

And that isn't even how it works. You have to prove they are all individual space-times. You do also need to prove they are universal in size because these dimensions are most often showcased as being extremely tiny and confined into individual dungeons.

Not once has that happened.nor do I need to prove their size, all I have to do is debunk your claim of them being small which is done by the fact that outerspace exists as well as stars,and nebula ,meaning it isn’t confined to the space hunters go to

There is no evidence that they are separate times. I don't know how many more times I need to bring up the Chalice of Rebirth. If something reversing time is able to reverse time across every single dimension simultaneously, including the gap between all of the dimensions, then that would lead me to believe they are not temporally separate from one another.

I don’t care what you believe , bring me evidence that affecting multiversal range with reversing time, when said thing affects the universe which all those structures are inside of in the first place is an anti-feat .also saying the gap contains time would make it possible to scale for a hypertimeline due to the fact that it would be a timeline that encompasses all other universes.

Suhos timestop spreads across the whole world and stops time.

Because the world tree connects every dimension. The world tree is a tool of god like the the chalice. Its range is simply large enough that it can affect the whole universe. It is responsible for reviving everything,so its range needs to be able to cover the distance between all souls regardless of dimensions.

All the chalice would need to be capable of is reversing the flow of souls which would make it so everyone that died and everything that happened gets reversed due to the nature of the world tree being responsible for existence.

The cup of reincarnation/chalice of rebirth would then just reverse all souls back to where they were. And since it affects the world tree,it would also affect everything the world tree is connected to.which is all of existence. And therefore make it range. (The name is fitting)

You can't just argue that the Chalice of Rebirth has multiversal range without first proving they are separate. That's completely backwards scaling.

that would be the default assumption based on the fact we already know that they are universes separated by the gap and dimensional walls, with dimensional walls existing even in mental planes.as well as the fact that it’s job is literally to reverse the universe

 

[FinePoint]

Jinwoo in the original series has 3 statements of destroying everything the absolute being created. (Numerous universes) everything on the first argument is og novel (everything I crossed out)

And another stating he is stronger than the people who killed god,

And monarchs have a statement of being born for the purpose of destroying all of existence.

Could you repost these scans, please? I recently read the manga but don't remember this.

 

[Dooyo]

yeah I disagree with backscaling. new author, new continuity, timeskip, and the feats are so much higher it practically ain't the same characters

If you disagree with backscaling, then view Ragnarok Jinwoo as his own thing, simple.

Either way, it's canonical confirmed in Ragnarok that he got stronger incomparable to before by Antares and Kandiaru who became a Monarch at the end of Ragnarok and faced an Itarim, calling Jinwoo strength as unfathomable and incalculable

So yeah, EOS Ragnarok Jinwoo is stronger than EOS OG novel Jinwoo without a doubt

 

[Phoenks]

If you disagree with backscaling, then view Ragnarok Jinwoo as his own thing, simple.

That is the plan, yes. Which is why I am advocating for him to be a different key.

I've realized that I am just going in circles with Phantom. He still won't provide evidence to substantiate the claim that the universe houses numerous universal-sized space-time continuums.

Without that evidence, at maximum I would accept Ragnarok Jinwoo 3-A to Low 2-C scaling. Big Bang scaling should be relatively obvious for 3-A, alongside the more obvious universal statements to go with it. Low 2-C requires a bit more assumptions that I genuinely don't know if I can grant him though.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Could you repost these scans, please? I recently read the manga but don't remember this.

Alright I will find the manhwa scan.they were novel scans though.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

That is the plan, yes. Which is why I am advocating for him to be a different key.

I've realized that I am just going in circles with Phantom. He still won't provide evidence to substantiate the claim that the universe houses numerous universal-sized space-time continuums.

Without that evidence, at maximum I would accept Ragnarok Jinwoo 3-A to Low 2-C scaling. Big Bang scaling should be relatively obvious for 3-A, alongside the more obvious universal statements to go with it. Low 2-C requires a bit more assumptions that I genuinely don't know if I can grant him though.

They are called universes, and as per the standards, THaT IS ENOUGH. I have refuted the idea of them being small. You have no basis to refute such blatant scans

 

[Dooyo]

That is the plan, yes. Which is why I am advocating for him to be a different key.

I've realized that I am just going in circles with Phantom. He still won't provide evidence to substantiate the claim that the universe houses numerous universal-sized space-time continuums.

Without that evidence, at maximum I would accept Ragnarok Jinwoo 3-A to Low 2-C scaling. Big Bang scaling should be relatively obvious for 3-A, alongside the more obvious universal statements to go with it. Low 2-C requires a bit more assumptions that I genuinely don't know if I can grant him though.

He easily beat casually 3 Itarims at the same by himself whereas EOS Suho with help clashed with one which destroyed the entire Universe that he created, including space time, planets, star, void, everything

He is easily low 2C at bar minimum by himself alone at the top of the verse, likely higher IMO

 

[Dooyo]

Like the last thread, the whole countless universes flashing by just sounds like me watching a movie, not that I physically traveled through the whole movie. That aint speed

Also, pretty sure the itarim would be Low 2-C at best? The scan says they created countless universes but it doesn't say if they created them all in one go, one by one or all together poured power to fart them into existence

One Itarim literally created and farted an entire Universe during its fight with Suho and trapping him there by creating a law which rendered him powerless, it's the final battle of the Ragnarok novel

 

[Rogue_Forge]

They are called universes, and as per the standards, THaT IS ENOUGH.

THAT LITERALLY ISNT ENOUGH

we wouldn't even be having this argument if it was

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Being called a universe is enough to get it to Universal but not Universal+

 

[Phoenks]

They are called universes, and as per the standards, THaT IS ENOUGH. I have refuted the idea of them being small. You have no basis to refute such blatant scans

In Solo Leveling, there is "The Universe itself" referring to the actual space-time, and then "universes" inside of it which refer to all the dimensions, gates, and dungeons. There is also the gap between dimensions, which interconnects everything. And the dimensional walls, which spatially separate all of these realms.

Given the context, no, just the realms being called "universes" isn't enough to say they are universal in size. You yourself admit there is only at best multi-stellar arguments regarding their sizes.

And it especially isn't enough for the space-time standards:

In order for something to qualify as a proper space-time continuum in regard to some feat usually one of two following two criteria should be met:

It is explicitly stated to be a "Space-time continuum" or something equivalent.
It fulfills the standards for being a universe-sized realm (see the first section of this page) and all of its time is also involved in its feat. I.e. the structure involved in the feat is the timeline of an entire universe.
When considering "dimensions" or "universes", one should keep in mind that time travel should not be possible between universes which we factually know are not branching timelines off each other. If this happens it could be used to show that they are actually part of the same universe.

Pay attention to that last part btw. Chalice of Rebirth literally reverses time across the universes, which should not be possible if they are separate. Gosh... this is so exhausting.

 

[Dooyo]

No, pocket dimensions and dimension that separate spatially is a thing, and you need to prove space-time is involved, if you have problem with it, the change the standard i guess

Also, from what you said, characters can physically travel between dimensions, so very likely anti-feat for spatio-temporal separation argument

Also i meant this part,

During the final battle, one Itarim created an entire Universe to trap Suho inside while adding a law that he is powerless with no mana in it, he managed to override that law and fight him back, their battle destroyed the entire Universe that he created on the spot and in chapter 373 of the novel, during their final clash before it was destroyed, it is said "space time screamed"

Isn't that obvious the Universe they created contain space time ?