Raiden Downgrade (Genshin Impact) — 1 more Staff Vote (STAFF IS NEEDED)

[Voidnether]

Basically changing Raiden's Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) to Type 3, that's it.

It was under the impression that Teyvat is universal-sized even if it has been stated consistently and portrayed to be planet-sized only (Through Neuvillette, Skirk and Lumine) hence the independence is Type 1. It was also under the impression that Plane of Euthymia (The sole reason why she gets Type 1 from) is Universal+

But they're all wrong, so Type 1 there is from Plane of Euthymia's independence over Teyvat however none of them are actually universal-sized. Istaroth adding "time" into the pocket dimension of the Plane of Euthymia, Istaroth also does it with Teyvat since it was implied Teyvat doesn't have the concept of time before the Shades existed (Supported by the fact life and death doesn't exist before they were created by the Heavenly Principles either).

So, would Teyvat be Universal+ then? No, this is just wrong given it's not a similar scenario to Nasuverse but rather it's also shown visually that Teyvat is a planet and it wouldn't make sense for it to be of that size too given Plane of Euthymia here is independent from Teyvat, not that Teyvat contains the Plane of Euthymia anyway.

That being said though, actually nothing in the justification itself implies any independence for Plane of Euthymia to be independent over Teyvat hence the Type 1 but more of like that Plane of Euthymia is simply outside Teyvat given it's pocket dimensional anyway, this is the scan of them being "independent" and I don't think it supports the independence justification. Makoto's realm is the foundation of the Sacred Sakura, however with the intervention of Istaroth — Ei created a new Sacred Sakura in the past, for it to be the current Sacred Sakura in the Inazuma that we know. That's why they managed to sustain it, if that never happened. It's obvious that Inazuma would plunge into chaos because of Makoto's realm simply not existing anymore.

So yeah, it should be changed. Removed.

Subsequently, this will change Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) into Type 3 in Ley Lines Manipulation with Fundamental Existence Erasure not being fundamental at all, and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) would be removed given Type 1 justification there is also through Plane of Euthymia with BDE1 being removed since it's not Universal+. Information Erasure (Type 2) would be changed to (Type 1) on Nahida's profile.

Raiden Downgrade (Genshin Impact) — 1 more Staff Vote (STAFF IS NEEDED)

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-layered-hax-limit.179055/post-7067816 Literally just read what I said about this lmao if you think standards sucks good for you, but wiki will run based on standards

vsbattles.com

More is elaborated here, and here just for the TLDR and the simplicity (3 pages long)

Information (Type 2) is the same as Concept (Type 2) where they both only pertains to Teyvat instead of them being the fundamental block of reality themselves

Arguments for CM1 is here, I only need one more staff vote to implement this

Raiden Downgrade (Genshin Impact) — 1 more Staff Vote (STAFF IS NEEDED)

Can you recap your current positions on the matter? My current position is 1. Leyline is CM2 as it is stated to be a conceptual network that governs the world of Genshin (detail explanation require supporters of the verse i guess) 2. Anyone can use the Leyline get full-blown CM2, in case...

vsbattles.com

• Agree: Firestorm808 (Agreed with CM1 removal, CM2 is limited for those who require mediums), Vietthai96 (Agreed with CM1 removal, CM2 is limited for those who require mediums) FinePoint (Agreed with CM1 removal, CM2 in Ley Lines Manipulation being limited for those who require mediums)
• Neutral:
• Disagree:

 

[MSahla]

So, would Teyvat be Universal+ then? No, this is just wrong given it's not a similar scenario to Nasuverse but rather it's also shown visually that Teyvat is a planet and it wouldn't make sense for it to be of that size too given Plane of Euthymia here is independent from Teyvat, not that Teyvat contains the Plane of Euthymia anyway.

That scene is not a Planet, if you look closely, you'll not find any surface or land above the firmament, its like you are entering different dimension.

IMG-20250729-080204 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20250729-080204 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

Not trying to say "Teyvat is a Universe" But if you saying "Its not universe size because its stated a Planet" Then why dont you downgraded that one Kamen Rider character who merged 2 Universes but visually its just the earths, Why? Because they use Earth as the benchmark for their "Universe."

As far as I remember, there are 20 Earths in Kamen Rider, and each Earth is a distinct and perfect Space-Time Continuums, also with a different timelines.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree.

 

[Voidnether]

That scene is not a Planet, if you look closely, you'll not find any surface or land above the firmament, its like you are entering different dimension.

IMG-20250729-080204 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20250729-080204 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

It's Teyvat, and it's a planet since the context earlier was about Surtalogi talking about Teyvat to Skirk. Eventually Skirk broke through the False Sky (With Alice's permission) and enter Teyvat. Furina saw it in Fontaine later on.

Not trying to say "Teyvat is a Universe" But if you saying "Its not universe size because its stated a Planet" Then why dont you downgraded that one Kamen Rider character who merged 2 Universes but visually its just the earths, Why? Because they use Earth as the benchmark for their "Universe."

As far as I remember, there are 20 Earths in Kamen Rider, and each Earth is a distinct and perfect Space-Time Continuums, also with a different timelines.

Irrelevant, both of them are not the same and they're both two distinct and very different scenarios. Space-time continuum there is portrayed as Earth because they don't know how to animate it, it's similar to STTGL.
They're stated to be space-time continuum, whilst Teyvat on the other hand isn't.

 

[FentyBeauty]

ya this makes sense

 

[AthelChan]

I agree with this.

 

[MSahla]

It's Teyvat, and it's a planet since the context earlier was about Surtalogi talking about Teyvat to Skirk. Eventually Skirk broke through the False Sky (With Alice's permission) and enter Teyvat. Furina saw it in Fontaine later on.

Yeah its teyvat but the scene you gave its not a planet whatsoever, after that scene, you'll see Skirk still in the outerspace

Exactly at This scene, this is still in the outerspace btw until 2-3 seconds later she entered the Planet.

Irrelevant, both of them are not the same and they're both two distinct and very different scenarios. Space-time continuum there is portrayed as Earth because they don't know how to animate it, it's similar to STTGL.

Doesn't matter no? And it does because we in genshin always visually in the earth and y'all be downplaying it while theres other verses that has the same case as genshin visually in the earth yet getting very high tier.

You basically wants "you need to go out of the earth or not only the earth to prove that its universe size", in another words, you just want it to be like Honkai.

 

[Voidnether]

Yeah its teyvat but the scene you gave its not a planet whatsoever, after that scene, you'll see Skirk still in the outerspace

Exactly at This scene, this is still in the outerspace btw until 2-3 seconds later she entered the Planet.

You do know she still broke through the False Sky right? It's not a dimensional travel thing, it's visually "shown" to be different than when she created the portal to go into the Abyss. Obviously in this instance she went through it without the requirement of Dimensional Travel, et cetera. Skirk talked it with Alice already, if it was through Dimensional Travel then breaking the False Sky isn't even needed as she can just enter Teyvat through the abyss portal anyway.

Doesn't matter no? And it does because we in genshin always visually in the earth and y'all be downplaying it while theres other verses that has the same case as genshin visually in the earth yet getting very high tier.

You basically wants "you need to go out of the earth or not only the earth to prove that its universe size", in another words, you just want it to be like Honkai.

You do know back then HI3 is only solar system right because that's the scope that they've shown "visually" without considering the statements, et cetera? Genshin doesn't have that kind of statement. I'm surprised all the major points here are through visualization, HSR suffered from this back then before eventually there's statement backing it up. Honestly, I don't even care about the other verses cause those same people that's knowledgeable on Kamen Rider could very well go on this thread and agree on this thread just because of you anyway

 

[MSahla]

Anyway, im

You do know she still broke through the False Sky right? It's not a dimensional travel thing, it's visually "shown" to be different than when she created the portal to go into the Abyss. Obviously in this instance she went through it without the requirement of Dimensional Travel, et cetera. Skirk talked it with Alice already, if it was through Dimensional Travel then breaking the False Sky isn't even needed as she can just enter Teyvat through the abyss portal anyway.

sigh how should i put this..

Teyvat is inside the False Sky, literally a dome, once you entered it you'll go to the Fake Universe, everything in the sky is False, its like you entered a different dimension but not Dimensional Travel.

Just use an analogy of Cube from Asmoday that we know each of her cubes are like a pocket dimension, its essentially like that.

You do know back then HI3 is only solar system right because that's the scope that they've shown "visually" without considering the statements, et cetera? Genshin doesn't have that kind of statement. I'm surprised all the major points here are through visualization, HSR suffered from this back then before eventually there's statement backing it up. Honestly, I don't even care about the other verses cause those same people that's knowledgeable on Kamen Rider could very well go on this thread and agree on this thread just because of you anyway

And theres already so many statements in genshin that u need that its not limited to Planet only, well, i guess it'll be meaningless if i gave it to you because you'll be using "Nahh.. Its only a planet, she says its a planet, he says its a planet, therefore its all planet".

Just because we focusing in one planet doesn't mean the verse were stuck in there only. But i guess it'll not meant anything for you.

 

[OmniScalator]

Well according to how it is written on wiki type 1 is

"Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."


So a size of universe is not required, just type of governance is required, in this case the reality which is governed by Ei's concept is Planet of Euthymia, and Plane of Euthymia participates in her concept of consciousness, changing plane of Euthymia won't have any effect on her concept but her concept can change whole plane, it all fits CM1.

 

[Planck69]

Omniscalator is correct. The size of reality in itself is not relevant to whether or not a concept is Type 1 by our current standards.

 

[Furina003]

Well according to how it is written on wiki type 1 is

"Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."


So a size of universe is not required, just type of governance is required, in this case the reality which is governed by Ei's concept is Planet of Euthymia, and Plane of Euthymia participates in her concept of consciousness, changing plane of Euthymia won't have any effect on her concept but her concept can change whole plane, it all fits CM1.

I agree with the omniscalator; the size of the universe isn't necessary, but we must assess how the concept functions, whether it's independent or not.

Leylines clearly meet the conceptual classification of Type 2, as Caribert has explained that changing a leyline would change the entire world.

The realm of consciousness is an independent realm, explained as an abstract concept; changes to the realm of consciousness would affect reality, but not vice versa.

Irminsul not only erases memories but also history. Rukhadevatta even mentioned that erasing himself could cause a paradox, which is why he created Nahida to prevent paradoxes. This not only affects memories but also the entirety of reality. That's why Irminsul is called the world tree and the center of the world, because he is the center of information and concepts in the world.

So, I disagree with everything in CRT.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

im lowkey more for type 2 since archons depend on divine throne in celestia to live since focalor stopped existing conceptually when she destroyed her throne (im sure she said something abt that when she talked with neuvi)

 

[Voidnether]

Omniscalator is correct. The size of reality in itself is not relevant to whether or not a concept is Type 1 by our current standards.

So, Conceptual Manipulation whether it be Type 1/2, it doesn't have to be an universal concept then? If that's the case then what about the other 3 abilities there (Fundamental existence erasure, BDE1 and Information erasure that's type 2?) Would they get affected by it or they stayed the same? Either way, would you be fine with it being just Type 2 if thats the case? I mean I can't seem to find the independence regardless

If they stayed the same, it'd still be planetary at best in range anyway then. That being said I'm still unsure about type 2 even since Plane of Euthymia as a concept isn't something that's like the building block of an universe but rather something similar to the leyline where it's fundamental in the context of a planet (Teyvat) since leyline is native to teyvat instead of it being fundamental to reality itself

 

[OmniScalator]

So, Conceptual Manipulation whether it be Type 1/2, it doesn't have to be an universal concept then? If that's the case then what about the other 3 abilities there? Would they get affected by it or they stayed the same? Either way, would you be fine with it being just Type 2 if thats the case?

Universal doesn't mean universe sized it just means "All spanning", and definition is the main part, it just considers type of relationship between reality and concept

 

[Voidnether]

Universal doesn't mean universe sized it just means "All spanning", and definition is the main part, it just considers type of relationship between reality and concept

It still requires the concept to be the building block of the universe, you know? If it's only fundamental as in the building block of a planet (Which is where leyline's CM2 stems from apparently?) Shouldn't that just be Type 3?

 

[OmniScalator]

It still requires the concept to be the building block of the universe, you know? If it's only fundamental as in the building block of a planet (Which is where leyline's CM2 stems from apparently?) Shouldn't that just be Type 3?

Well leylines have type 2 because they are fundamental concepts within their "Area of influence" which is whole planet, changing concepts can change things, like Neuvillette made all fontainians actual humans, and egeria turned oceanids into humans although not as good as Neuvillette, these all fit CM2 sufficiently.

And if we see type 3, it is when we talk about personal concepts, and not concepts which affect whole race or things like that

 

[Voidnether]

Well leylines have type 2 because they are fundamental concepts within their "Area of influence" which is whole planet, changing concepts can change things, like Neuvillette made all fontainians actual humans, and egeria turned oceanids into humans although not as good as Neuvillette, these all fit CM2 sufficiently.

And if we see type 3, it is when we talk about personal concepts, and not concepts which affect whole race or things like that

So that's apparently CM2 instead of CM3, I thought it'd still be plausible for a type 3 concept to do that given the Night Kingdom example in there that's currently accepted as one lmao. I mean I won't argue further then if that's the case, at best it's just changing Type 1 to Type 2 given Type 1 in there is also from Plane of Euthymia's independence (Which there isn't actually)

 

[OmniScalator]

So that's apparently CM2 instead of CM3, I thought it'd still be plausible for a type 3 concept to do that given the Night Kingdom example in there that's currently accepted as one lmao. I mean I won't argue further then if that's the case, at best it's just changing Type 1 to Type 2 given Type 1 in there is also from Plane of Euthymia's independence (Which there isn't actually)

In Raiden shogun's case CM1 is actually there

The reality it governs is Planet of Euthymia and concept is her consciousness

This concept exists outside said reality which it governs, and this concept isn't affected by changes to said reality, while this concept can change that reality

It is all CM1, but only within Plane of Euthymia

 

[Voidnether]

In Raiden shogun's case CM1 is actually there

The reality it governs is Planet of Euthymia and concept is her consciousness

This concept exists outside said reality which it governs, and this concept isn't affected by changes to said reality, while this concept can change that reality

It is all CM1, but only within Plane of Euthymia

No, Plane of Euthymia is essentially Ei's consciousness. They're fundamentally not two different things, even in the Loading Screen about Plane of Euthymia it was stated that Ei willed the Plane of Euthymia into existence (As in Ei's will created it, since that realm is a manifestation of her will and she lives there). Problem is that, you know how Makoto's realm that's basically the first version of Plane of Euthymia is the foundational of Sacred Sakura? That's the problem, if Ei's Plane of Euthymia was truly independent then she doesn't have to recreate Sacred Sakura lol

I don't know how you'd come to that conclusion, the case here with what's outlined in Type 1 is different given if you did the quest then you would've known that Plane of Euthymia is simply Ei's will itself. When Ei manifested the Plane of Euthymia, it's a manifestation of her will.

 

[OmniScalator]

No, Plane of Euthymia is essentially Ei's consciousness. They're fundamentally not two different things, even in the Loading Screen about Plane of Euthymia it was stated that Ei willed the Plane of Euthymia into existence (As in Ei's will created it). Problem is that, you know how Makoto's realm that's basically the first version of Plane of Euthymia is the foundational of Sacred Sakura? That's the problem, if Ei's Plane of Euthymia was truly independent then she doesn't have to recreate Sacred Sakura lol

Well, she didn't recreate sacred sakura at all, it was always created in this moment, it's just that istaroth planted sacred sakura such that it always existed

And no, Plane of Euthymia is not exactly her consciousness but embodiment of her consciousness, which means in relation consciousness should be superior to Plane of Euthymia.

 

[Planck69]

It still requires the concept to be the building block of the universe, you know? If it's only fundamental as in the building block of a planet (Which is where leyline's CM2 stems from apparently?) Shouldn't that just be Type 3?

Not necessarily this way. The Form of The Table, for example, would be a Type 1 Concept, despite tables obviously not being fundamental aspects of existence.

 

[Voidnether]

Well, she didn't recreate sacred sakura at all, it was always created in this moment, it's just that istaroth planted sacred sakura such that it always existed

And no, Plane of Euthymia is not exactly her consciousness but embodiment of her consciousness, which means in relation consciousness should be superior to Plane of Euthymia.

It was Ei who planted it herself not Istaroth, Istaroth only intervened with the timeline.

Plane of Euthymia being an embodiment of her consciousness and Ei being superior to it doesn't make sense when they're both still one. They're both the same thing, not fundamentally different nor if one is superior to each other.

Look, if Plane of Euthymia is an embodiment of her consciousness and Ei itself is superior to that: How do you explain that when Makoto dies, and her Plane of Euthymia is still intact, it still had Makoto's consciousness there? It shouldn't even be possible if she's independent from it. Even the arguments for CM1 back then were through Makoto's Plane of Euthymia still existing even if Makoto herself is dead but we know that's false since it only existed because it still had a fragment of her consciousness (Then it's gone when Makoto's consciousness merged with Raiden's sword hence Musou Isshin). If they're independent, they won't have to go through the struggle for the Sacred Sakura anyway (It was only when Sacred Sakura in danger cause of the Abyss that Ei finally intervened and went to Makoto's realm btw hence all of this)

 

[Voidnether]

It's still not convincing enough personally to me when you know, the arguments for it were that Makoto's Plane of Euthymia is actually superior than Makoto's consciousness cause it still existed even if Makoto is dead which is wrong because it only existed again because it still had Makoto's consciousness in there (You can read the thread for this back then) or if it was independent from Teyvat that had like concept type 2 stuff through leylines, so yeah unless there's anything. I'm not convinced tbh

Like, if either one of them gets destroyed then both of them gets destroyed eventually (Makoto's consciousness with her own plane of euthymia and the sacred sakura)

 

[Furina003]

So, Conceptual Manipulation whether it be Type 1/2, it doesn't have to be an universal concept then? If that's the case then what about the other 3 abilities there (Fundamental existence erasure, BDE1 and Information erasure that's type 2?) Would they get affected by it or they stayed the same? Either way, would you be fine with it being just Type 2 if thats the case? I mean I can't seem to find the independence regardless

If they stayed the same, it'd still be planetary at best in range anyway then. That being said I'm still unsure about type 2 even since Plane of Euthymia as a concept isn't something that's like the building block of an universe but rather something similar to the leyline where it's fundamental in the context of a planet (Teyvat) since leyline is native to teyvat instead of it being fundamental to reality itself

Universal doesn't mean literally universal or infinite in size; universal here refers to a general description.

For example, a concept that only governs one object would be a Type 3 concept, but a Type 2 concept is one that supports all of reality, not just one specific object.

Type 1 and 2 concepts are similar; the difference lies in whether they are independent or dependent on the object they support. For example, if the object is destroyed, the concept is also destroyed, making it a Type 2 concept. A Type 1 concept remains undestroyed even if the object it supports is destroyed.

To give another example, if a concept only supports a circle, it would be a Type 3 concept. However, if the concept supported all the circles in the world, it would be a Type 2 or 1 concept, depending on whether it is independent or dependent on the entire circle.

So, I don't agree with things related to information and concepts, but for bde1 I might be neutral tending to agree.

 

[Voidnether]

Universal doesn't mean literally universal or infinite in size; universal here refers to a general description.

For example, a concept that only governs one object would be a Type 3 concept, but a Type 2 concept is one that supports all of reality, not just one specific object.

Type 1 and 2 concepts are similar; the difference lies in whether they are independent or dependent on the object they support. For example, if the object is destroyed, the concept is also destroyed, making it a Type 2 concept. A Type 1 concept remains undestroyed even if the object it supports is destroyed.

To give another example, if a concept only supports a circle, it would be a Type 3 concept. However, if the concept supported all the circles in the world, it would be a Type 2 or 1 concept, depending on whether it is independent or dependent on the entire circle.

So, I don't agree with things related to information and concepts, but for bde1 I might be neutral tending to agree.

I mean I already gave up on that argument but thanks for explaining, anyway about BDE1 I think it'd be best if I make another CRT covering it but yeah.. I don't think it's justifiable anyway (Just hope you don't need 3 staff votes for this) but it would be nice if it somehow gets removed on this thread too

 

[OmniScalator]

It was Ei who planted it herself not Istaroth, Istaroth only intervened with the timeline.

well that is what i meant in the end, Ei planted it and istaroth took tree or seed back in time.

Plane of Euthymia being an embodiment of her consciousness and Ei being superior to it doesn't make sense when they're both still one. They're both the same thing, not fundamentally different nor if one is superior to each other.

For Plane of Euthymia and her consciousness to be same would not make sense considering the Loading screen dialogue "This is the Raiden Shogun's personal realm conjured up from her own will.", which means her consciousness should exist since before Plane of Euthymia came into existence, and her consciousness affects Plane of Euthymia as seen here.

Look, if Plane of Euthymia is an embodiment of her consciousness and Ei itself is superior to that: How do you explain that when Makoto dies, and her Plane of Euthymia is still intact, it still had Makoto's consciousness there? It shouldn't even be possible if she's independent from it. Even the arguments for CM1 back then were through Makoto's Plane of Euthymia still existing even if Makoto herself is dead but we know that's false since it only existed because it still had a fragment of her consciousness (Then it's gone when Makoto's consciousness merged with Raiden's sword hence Musou Isshin). If they're independent, they won't have to go through the struggle for the Sacred Sakura anyway (It was only when Sacred Sakura in danger cause of the Abyss that Ei finally intervened and went to Makoto's realm btw hence all of this)

Well makoto's realm of consciousness was preserved by Ei obviously, else it was about to fade away as makoto was about to die.

 

[Voidnether]

Well makoto's realm of consciousness was preserved by Ei obviously, else it was about to fade away as makoto was about to die.

Yeah, I'm afraid Type 1 is beyond saving

 

[PedjaTarzan]

im lowkey more for type 2 since archons depend on divine throne in celestia to live since focalor stopped existing conceptually when she destroyed her throne (im sure she said something abt that when she talked with neuvi)

umm uhh anyone seen this

 

[OmniScalator]

umm uhh anyone seen this

that argument is kinda flawed since focalors destroyed hydro archon throne and her existence have nothing to do with it

 

[PedjaTarzan]

that argument is kinda flawed since focalors destroyed hydro archon throne and her existence have nothing to do with it

i actually forgot it was hype way of saying no archon if i destroy throne and not rly conceptual destruction so yea

 

[Voidnether]

i actually forgot it was hype way of saying no archon if i destroy throne and not rly conceptual destruction so yea

There's no conceptual destruction in genshin I'm afraid

 

[PedjaTarzan]

There's no conceptual destruction in genshin I'm afraid

it is and its called my hopes when i lose 50/50

 

[Voidnether]

it is and its called my hopes when i lose 50/50

Capturing radiance:

 

[MSahla]

Well, anyway, i don't agree with the CMs stuff but i agree with BDE1 removal, i also dont know how did they even get it.

 

[Vietthai96]

For the record, idk much about GI, but speaking from CM standard, the term Universal here isn't mean literal universe in size, but mean the entire reality, the entire reality could be universe, multiverse, etc...., size of reality is irrelevant, what matter is how the concept work in question.

For example, even if the reality is earth-sized, the concept of all table that govern every table across the entirety of said earth-sized still universal concept. The only thing that the size of reality could affect is the governing/effective range of said concept, which in this example, the concept only have earth-sized range

 

[PedjaTarzan]

For the record, idk much about GI, but speaking from CM standard, the term Universal here isn't mean literal universe in size, but mean the entire reality, the entire reality could be universe, multiverse, etc...., size of reality is irrelevant, what matter is how the concept work in question.

For example, even if the reality is earth-sized, the concept of all table that govern every table across the entirety of said earth-sized still universal concept. The only thing that the size of reality could affect is the governing/effective range of said concept, which in this example, the concept only have earth-sized range

well then its impossible for raiden to have cm1 across entire img tree when the verse is locked inside teyvat lol

 

[OmniScalator]

well then its impossible for raiden to have cm1 across entire img tree when the verse is locked inside teyvat lol

well obviously just possessing CM1 doesn't mean anything, but verse might not be just locked in teyvat, as barrier just seems to be normal barrier, so changes to timeline and as such will scale to L2-C due to there being infinite universe outside and so on

 

[Vietthai96]

well then its impossible for raiden to have cm1 across entire img tree when the verse is locked inside teyvat lol

I mean, both type 1 and 2 are universal concept, just different with type 1 being independent, as long as the concept being independent from what it govern, then it is type 1, across the entire img tree or not just affect it scales

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I mean, both type 1 and 2 are universal concept, just different with type 1 being independent, as long as the concept being independent from what it govern, then it is type 1, across the entire img tree or not just affect it scales

oh ok mb