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How to calc the size and AP of a dark nebula like creature the size of multiple constellations (And is GPE usable for stuff this size)

We were originally planning on using GPE to calc its AP, but it looks like that's not viable for characters beyond tier 5, so is there any other way?
 
The Imgur link seems to say height infinity, but maybe that's a hyperbole assuming the images show his full size? Otherwise a lot of other factors matter, how do they eat things? does it grab celestial bodies unicron style? do they bite off chunks one at a time? seeing it state the Earth will be destroyed in 12 hours makes me think it might be the latter

You could calculate the total volume of the largest constellation they ate and divide by 10 hours converted into seconds, that gives you a minimum range they need to encompass to end up having performed their feat
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
The Imgur link seems to say height infinity, but maybe that's a hyperbole assuming the images show his full size? Otherwise a lot of other factors matter, how do they eat things? does it grab celestial bodies unicron style? do they bite off chunks one at a time? seeing it state the Earth will be destroyed in 12 hours makes me think it might be the latter

You could calculate the total volume of the largest constellation they ate and divide by 10 hours converted into seconds, that gives you a minimum range they need to encompass to end up having performed their feat
Click to expand...
The height and weight infinity is that it can grow larger infinitely the more it eats. It eats things by sucking up stars and planets into itself. The destroy Earth in 12 hours section is about how long it takes to get to Earth. As just Vacuumon approaching the planet was starting to cause the African coast ocean currents to shift abnormally.
 
Peter1129 said:
The height and weight infinity is that it can grow larger infinitely the more it eats. It eats things by sucking up stars and planets into itself. The destroy Earth in 12 hours section is about how long it takes to get to Earth. As just Vacuumon approaching the planet was starting to cause the African coast ocean currents to shift abnormally.
Click to expand...
I see, what about the 10 days mention, is it also in reference to how long the travel takes? It should still be a safe lowball either way if he did it in 10 days
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
I see, what about the 10 days mention, is it also in reference to how long the travel takes? It should still be a safe lowball either way if he did it in 10 days
Click to expand...
That is true. It was also shown to take 10 days for it to eat the Big Dipper constellation in series and then it took a shorter amount of time for it to eat majority of the Cancer Constellation as it got bigger.
 
Peter1129 said:
That is true. It was also shown to take 10 days for it to eat the Big Dipper constellation in series and then it took a shorter amount of time for it to eat majority of the Cancer Constellation as it got bigger.
Click to expand...
ig the old method should work then but the end result value is absolutely cheeks assuming 10 days, maybe the time taken if lowered would give a better result if we know how long traversing from 1 star to another takes, (ik nothing about this series and am presuming these are the only available evidences so it might just be flat out dwarfing them with its mouth)
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
ig the old method should work then but the end result value is absolutely cheeks assuming 10 days, maybe the time taken if lowered would give a better result if we know how long traversing from 1 star to another takes, (ik nothing about this series and am presuming these are the only available evidences so it might just be flat out dwarfing them with its mouth)
Click to expand...
This is how it’s shown to suck up stars
 
Peter1129 said:
This is how it’s shown to suck up stars
Click to expand...
Oh that’s easy, it can be pixelscaled to give a size for planetary consumption, for the big dipper feat I think the safer option is to just equate a star’s volume to = it

As we don’t know how big it would be in relation to a star but we know it dwarves the things it consumes and grows bigger as it consumes so it should theoretically be at least as big as a star
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Oh that’s easy, it can be pixelscaled to give a size for planetary consumption, for the big dipper feat I think the safer option is to just equate a star’s volume to = it

As we don’t know how big it would be in relation to a star but we know it dwarves the things it consumes and grows bigger as it consumes so it should theoretically be at least as big as a star
Click to expand...
If it helps here’s what happened when it died and the planets and stars it ate got spit out

Stars of the constellation reappearing
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
The planets can easily be pixels scaled

The zapping dots in 23:18 are these stars? If so that makes it much easier to calc the size, could prolly do it for you when I get home if you’d like
Click to expand...
Yeah all those zapping dots are stars.

And yeah it would be great if you could calc it for us. Thank you very much.
 
Last edited:
Also added a bit more scans from the episode stating Big Dipper and Cancer were disappearing in case they are needed.
 
Peter1129 said:
Yeah all those zapping dots are stars.

And yeah it would be great if you could calc it for us. Thank you very much.
Click to expand...
bet, I'll just pre suppose they are stars then, since the images show it to be a cloud with no distinct shape I'll assume cuboid since that's the safest shape we can infer without being assumptive, I'll assume b and h of l x b x h are the same since it is portrayed to be massive and not shown to be like a bread-loaf, given the cloudy nature it should be similar to spheroids so the previous assumption is more supported thanks to that now for the actual pixelscaling.

Backup Scans, Please ignore the navy blue line and text, that's an error

Image 1​


ultraman.png


166.7 px = 12725 km (Standard Planet Diameter)
1915.8 px = 146,242.082 km (Vacuumon Height)

Image 2​


ultraman2.png


91.2 px = 1,400,000 km (Our Star as basis)
1 px = 15350.877193 km
2554.7 px = 39216885.965 km
1910.5 px = 29327850.8772 km


Travel Speed​

5 Light Years is the average distance between two stars
Big Dipper has 7 stars
10- Whoops nvm it does not travel to it's prey but the prey is pulled towards it (this kinda means you can KE calc moving planets at such a high speed, oh well moving onto the next thing

Size​

Volume :

l x b x h

39216885.965 x 29327850.8772 x 29327850.8772

3.3731339e+22 km^3 ( x 1e+15 )

3.3731339e+37 cc

Mass :

1.003e-6 kg/cc (cloud density since I have nothing else to use as a basis)

1.003e-6 x 3.3731339e+37

3.3832533e+31 kg (Stellar)
 
I'd say if this has some crazy good ass travel speed feats we could calc the relativistic KE maybe? if not the best way to derive AP is calculating the KE it has from sucking in planets at such a high speed which isn't as much but still decent
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
I'd say if this has some crazy good ass travel speed feats we could calc the relativistic KE maybe? if not the best way to derive AP is calculating the KE it has from sucking in planets at such a high speed which isn't as much but still decent
Click to expand...
Damn we can only derive AP from it scaling planets huh. Probably wouldn’t affect the 4-B tiers much then unless it was shown to suck up stars at relativistic speed. Ahh well thanks for the calc anyways.

Pretty sure Vacuumon’s able to fly at FTL or higher speeds so I doubt we can calc KE for it.

But there is another calc that we were hoping to get some input for. It’s the part about how Vacuumon’s body has pressure strong enough to crush Earth into the size of a sugar cube. That’s textbook definition of black hole level pressure I believe. Ultraman Jack was subjected to the pressure in Vacuumon’s body and was even able to stand up and kill it from the inside.

How would you go about calcing this?
 
4ff115ce36d3d539bc09ff943c87e950352ab048.jpg
Also not sure if this is useful. But a Chinese user on Tieba once made this image for Vacuumon. Let me translate it real quick.

以一隻怪獸來說,這身體太巨大了。可是如果其體格無法繞過2600光年這麼遠的距離,就會擋住北斗七星和巨蟹座以外的星球,地球人的眼睛就應該看不見這些星星了。

【圖3】既然山貓座和獅子座都還看得見,那暗黑怪獸的身體姿勢就是這樣

For a monster, this is a massive body. However, if it were this large, to travel 2,600 light-years, it would have to block the Big Dipper and the planets beyond Cancer, making them invisible to Earthlings.

Figure 3: Since both the Lynx and Leo constellations are still visible, the dark monster's body posture is like this.

And yes they did indeed say the Lynx and Leo Constellations were still available in the episode even though Vacuumon already ate the Big Dipper and was moving to Cancer..
 
Last edited:
bro....if you had this why not show that before?

Also 2.6K LY is a good distance but you need a good timeframe to support rel or higher speeds, if thats there we can calc relativistic KE and get an AP rating
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
bro....if you had this why not show that before?

Also 2.6K LY is a good distance but you need a good timeframe to support rel or higher speeds, if thats there we can calc relativistic KE and get an AP rating
Click to expand...
Sorry. Others told me no need to bring this up since its not official but rather just a fanmade image using info given in the show along with estimates the Chinese user made.

Now as for the timeframe in the episode I think only like a day or two had passed from Vacuumon finishing eating the Big Dipper to moving onto Cancer. I'll go review the episode to make sure.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
isn't 9.81 m/s for earth's gravity? the calc should not be using this

-GMm/r is the better formula and this calc tmk is a good example of how to use that
Click to expand...
Oh uhh I actually don’t know if that calc is right or wrong. Just saw that you could apparently use GPE for stuff beyond planetary scope. So I was wondering if this means Vacuumon could also just use GPE as a way to get its AP.
 
Peter1129 said:
Oh uhh I actually don’t know if that calc is right or wrong. Just saw that you could apparently use GPE for stuff beyond planetary scope. So I was wondering if this means Vacuumon could also just use GPE as a way to get its AP.
Click to expand...
the second gpe formula could be used but the issue is he doesn't really move himself, the videos show him bringing in the planets towards him so you might be able to use KE for the planets movement instead of him, another issue is he seems to suck them in as opposed to pulling them in via gravitational powers (feel free to correct me on this) if it does not suck in them via gravity then it wouldnt have any correlation to a formula derived from newtons law of gravitation, the calc would end up giving meaningless numbers, if you can prove he sucks them in via sheer gravitational powers a calc could be done I suppose
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
the second gpe formula could be used but the issue is he doesn't really move himself, the videos show him bringing in the planets towards him so you might be able to use KE for the planets movement instead of him, another issue is he seems to suck them in as opposed to pulling them in via gravitational powers (feel free to correct me on this) if it does not suck in them via gravity then it wouldnt have any correlation to a formula derived from newtons law of gravitation, the calc would end up giving meaningless numbers, if you can prove he sucks them in via sheer gravitational powers a calc could be done I suppose
Click to expand...
I think the episode did imply Vacuumon moved its body. Since narration did say it moved from Big Dipper to Cancer after swallowing the former. So it did move its body at some point in the episode but we just didn’t see it do it on screen. Was hoping to see if GPE was usable to maybe get an upgrade for the characters that are outright stated to be stronger than Vacuumon via scaling.

And yeah Vacuumon kinda just sucks them into its body from the looks of it. The gravitational stuff is just something its body does passively.
 
Peter1129 said:
And yeah Vacuumon kinda just sucks them into its body from the looks of it. The gravitational stuff is just something its body does passively.
Click to expand...
is this guesswork or are there any statements about his gravitational pull that I've missed?
 
Evidence checks out, it seems to qualify for GPE then, I'll try to do it for you in the morning since it's almost 12 at night in my region
 
vacumon.png


153.2 px = 12756 km (Planet Diameter)
1 px = 83.26 km
1642.7 px = 136777.29 km (Distance Moved)

Known Values :

Planet Mass (m) = 5.972e+24 kg (Earth as basis)
Vaccumon Mass (M) = 3.3832533e+31 kg
G = 6.67430e-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2
R1 = 19608442.98 km (Vac Radius)
R2 = (Vac_R + Distance Moved + Planet Radius)
R2 = 19608442.98 + 136777.29 + 6,371
R2 = 19751591.27 km

Converting to meter
r1 = 19608442.98 * 1e3 = 1.960844298e10 m
r2 = 19751591.27 * 1e3 = 1.975159127e10 m

GPE = GMm * (1/r1 - 1/r2)
GPE = 6.67430e-11 * 3.3832533e+31 * 5.972e+24 * (1/1.960844298e10 - 1/1.975159127e10)
GPE = 1.3485282e+46 * 3.69608e-13
GPE of Vacuumon expelling planets = 4.98e+33 Joules or 1.19 Yottatons (Planet level)


maybe not the result you were looking for but very good supporting calc, I'll do KE too so you can at least get tier 4 results instead, I'll do 3 ends for speed, 0.456c, 0.92c and 0.99c, 0.41c is the downplayed end simply because the timestamp for the planets start and end times are both 23:11 to the looks of it which means the feat happens under a second which can impact the speed and beef it upto be ftl, unfortunately I don't have the means to be watching frame by frame since the site used for it which I've seen others use seems to be down so assuming 1 second with that distance gives us 0.456c , so doing two ends seem fair as for the last one I'll do 4x Newtonian KE since that is what the page says, if I am interpreting the page incorrectly we already have the lower end to fall back to

Planet Mass = 5.972e+24 kg
Rel KE Calculator
299792458*0.99 = 296794533.42

Relativistic KE End :
Low End : 6.64e+40 J or 15.9 Quettatons (Small Star level)
Mid End : 8.33e+41 J or 199.09 Quettatons (Star level)
High End : 1.05e+42 J or 250.96 Quettatons (Star level)
 
His profile looks like he scales higher into High-4C but I think having extra supporting calcs is always a good thing, esp if the large star calc gets axed somehow you'll have this value to fall back to safely
 
EddisherSound said:
We were originally planning on using GPE to calc its AP, but it looks like that's not viable for characters beyond tier 5, so is there any other way?
Click to expand...
You can't use GPE for stuff in outer space.
 
I had another idea to get the value higher, finding the mass of it is the tough part because it's always increasing in size as it eats things however it's mass should be no less than that of a star given how it consumed one within it and had moved with it existing inside the clouds and since it goes from constellation to constellation devouring things we can also say it's hundreds of times faster than light, if we do a relativistic KE calc using 0.92c and use the mass of a star (1.989 × 10^30 kg) put these two in the Rel KE calculator and you get 2.79e+47 Joules (Solar System level)



KLOL506 said:
Those don't use the normal GPE formula IIRC
Click to expand...
oh yeah definitely, I used the -GMm/R formula just like Damage's Chibaku Tensei calc instead of mgh
 
Last edited:
Ghostimuscrime said:
I had another idea to get the value higher, finding the mass of it is the tough part because it's always increasing in size as it eats things however it's mass should be no less than that of a star given how it consumed one within it and had moved with it existing inside the clouds and since it goes from constellation to constellation devouring things we can also say it's hundreds of times faster than light, if we do a relativistic KE calc using 0.92c and use the mass of a star, then the vacuumon would scale to 2.79e+47 Joules (Solar System level)




oh yeah definitely, I used the -GMm/R formula just like Damage's Chibaku Tensei calc instead of mgh
Click to expand...
Huh if that gets accepted it’s just somewhat above the solar system destruction feat that Zetton I can perform. And Zetton II is stated to be the enhanced version of Zetton I and the strongest kaiju of RoU thus above Vacuumon. So this would actually be a decent calc supporting for the EoS characters’ scaling.
 
Peter1129 said:
Huh if that gets accepted it’s just somewhat above the solar system destruction feat that Zetton I can perform. And Zetton II is stated to be the enhanced version of Zetton I and the strongest kaiju of RoU thus above Vacuumon. So this would actually be a decent calc supporting for the EoS characters’ scaling.
Click to expand...
If you can get a CGM to validate that from looking at this thread I’ll blog the results and you can then use that in a CRT
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
If you can get a CGM to validate that from looking at this thread I’ll blog the results and you can then use that in a CRT
Click to expand...
If you can blog it that would be great thanks. And yeah I’ll make a CRT with this and the other updated constellation calc that was made a while back to update the Showa tierings.
 
Peter1129 said:
If you can blog it that would be great thanks. And yeah I’ll make a CRT with this and the other updated constellation calc that was made a while back to update the Showa tierings.
Click to expand...
yea now you just need to ask a CGM to vote on this, after that I'll put everything in a blog and you'll be good to go
 
KLOL506 said:
Those don't use the normal GPE formula IIRC
Click to expand...
Hey KLOL506, since you’re on this thread already do you think this calc is correct and usable?
Ghostimuscrime said:
I had another idea to get the value higher, finding the mass of it is the tough part because it's always increasing in size as it eats things however it's mass should be no less than that of a star given how it consumed one within it and had moved with it existing inside the clouds and since it goes from constellation to constellation devouring things we can also say it's hundreds of times faster than light, if we do a relativistic KE calc using 0.92c and use the mass of a star, then the vacuumon would scale to 2.79e+47 Joules (Solar System level)




oh yeah definitely, I used the -GMm/R formula just like Damage's Chibaku Tensei calc instead of mgh
Click to expand...
 
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