• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Psychomaster35

He/Him
VS Battles
Calculation Group
Messages
16,100
Reaction score
5,571
I'm finally back with another revision to one of the most iconic Total Drama-inspired series, and boy have the tides shifted since last revision. So, let's not any time in getting into the one revision you've all been waiting for.

Battle For Limitless Power... AND Speed! (Infinite Speed Upgrade)
In the episode Seasonal Shift, a major plot point has Pen ask TV to scan the timeline's past to detect the missing failed debuters, to which he completes his analysis in 3 seconds. As he did this, he appeared to be doing this on a universal scale as evident with the line "Calibrating Universes" (The first message that shows up when he is scanning the timeline). It's a feat that's certainly impressive, but it only gets better by the fact that due to how the BFDI universe is infinite in size, TV was essentially looking through an infinite amount of bits and operations to search for the missing failed debuters in just a finite amount of time, something that would require Infinite perception speed to pull off. Now, I know what you're thinking: how is this supposed to physically scale to anyone if this is a perception speed feat? Well, we actually do have a moment of someone blitzing TV's perception speed.

Enter the episode What's Up Bell's String?, where a major plot point has One straight up blitz the contestants through sheer speed before any of the contestants could react. This did, in fact, include TV, who she passes in front of in 2 of the frames in the scene while she was rearranging the contestants. If TV really did see her, then he would've pointed her out to Two, yet he doesn't, as if he never noticed her at all, which means One can pretty much scale to Infinite speed. Not to mention, since we already know that she admits to be weaker than Two in power who in turn is equal to/weaker than Four in power, it means that Two and Four can also scale to this. So, seems pretty simple, right? Well, it gets a bit more complex than that.

You can try to make the argument that the contestants scale since there are certain scenes where they have been able to run away from Four (IE. BFB 16, TPOT 11, TPOT 16, etc), but this would end up causing circular scaling since these same contestants can't even react to One who is supposed to be weaker than Four. Not to mention, it would break the narratives of multiple episodes that had the contestants travelling finite distances in finite amounts of time in many challenges if we were to assume they really did scale to Infinite speed. Which is why I believe the Infinite speed only physically scales to One, Two, and Four.

We already know that Four from a narrative standpoint is supposed to be superior to the contestants in power at his peak, and as such, it's heavily implied that he's been holding back at certain times as we've seen him sometimes be capable of one-shotting contestants effortlessly, yet other scenes have him take multiple hits to kill them, insinuating that he wasn't using his full power. Not to mention, the whole reason as to why the contestants wanted to compete for Two's power was because they viewed it as something far superior to themselves. This pretty much included Black Hole, despite how he has access to a form that makes him infinitely large through absorbing all matter in the universe, which makes the form Infinite in speed.

While the theory that Four holds back when dealing with the contestants feels strong, there's still TPOT 11 where the EXITors were able to successfully escape from Four while the latter was implied to not be holding back in that episode, which would just lead to the same circular scaling problems as explained earlier. However, that can easily be dismissed as an outlier for the EXITors as the whole point of the episode was to fulfill fans' wishes of having them see the EXITors escape from Four while making the special exception to disregard the narrative, which means that outside of TPOT 11, Four would still be superior to the contestants.

To put it short One, Two, and Four become likely Infinite in speed through One blitzing TV's Infinite perception speed, and that the Infinite speed cannot scale to any of the contestants (Outside of TV's perception speed and Black Hole's theoretical maximum size) due to inconsistency reasons as well as the fact that Four is heavily implied to be holding back when dealing with the contestants in order to keep the narrative that he (And the other Algebraliens) is superior to them consistent. The only thing that stops it from being a solid rating is due to certain inconsistencies contestants outspeeding Four at his peak, but if anyone is to say this is solid enough, I'd be fine with it.

EDIT: The scene of One blitzing TV's perception speed can't be used as the Infinite perception speed something that only scales to TV via Information Analysis and not his usual perception speed. However, based on how it's consistently shown that Two and Four are superior to the contestants narratively, which includes Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form which we already accept to possibly scale to Two and Four in AP, the same should go to their speed: as a "possibly Infinite" rating. Essentially, Two and Four (As well as characters possessing their powers in the next section) should get a "possibly Infinite" rating in their speed.

I HAVE THE POWER! (New Power of Two Abilities + Key Additions)
In the episode Last One Standing, it is revealed that Four had access to Two's powers through absorbing their powers, which was why he was able to send eliminated contestants to Two's Elimination Space. Later on, he would give all of the remaining contestants a fraction of Two's power to get more help in holding back the tear in space-time, and as such, the following characters would gain access to all of the powers and abilities of Two as a separate key:
  • Black Hole
  • Book
  • Bottle
  • Donut
  • Fanny
  • Four
  • Golf Ball
  • Grassy
  • Liy
  • Marker
  • Pen
  • Pencil
  • Price Tag
  • Snowball
  • Tennis Ball
  • Tree
  • TV
  • Winner
However, it should be noted that everyone outside of Four should only "possibly" have all of Two's powers and abilities outside of the abilities they have been shown to use, as they only possess a fraction of Two's power which means that it's unclear if they do have access to all of Two's powers, especially since Pencil with Two's powers seemingly struggled to teleport. Speaking of Two's powers, those gained new abilities as well:
And, the following powers were showcased by each Power of Two user, and therefore they should solidly have these abilities in their Power of Two keys:
(Note: The reason why the POT users get access to all of the powers and abilities of the people they kill/absorb the powers of is because of the POT's ability to absorb the powers of those the user kills/touches.)

And we're not even done yet, because Pencil would even later go on to absorb all of Four's powers for herself, and eventually, One would obtain all of Pencil's powers for herself. What this means here is that both Pencil and One should have keys where they possess both Two and Four's powers. Speaking of the power's they've shown with them:
And finally, to wrap this section off, let's talk scaling chains. As we know that Four had distributed all of Two's powers to the 17 remaining TPOT contestants, it means that each TPOT contestant has 1/17 of Two's power. This is important to note, as Liy with 1/17 of Two's power was able to one-shot a non-POT Fanny (Due to her losing that power after dying to Pencil), which makes characters with 1/17 of Two's power a one-shot value above a non-POT character. That being said, since the POT contestants are able to absorb the powers of those they kill/touch, it'd mean that they would be a certain level of power at the time of them losing their POT powers, which would be like this (See the "shown ability by each POT user list" to know who killed/absorbed the powers of who):
  • Black Hole (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Book (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Bottle (With Two's powers): >3x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Donut (With Two's powers): >2x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Fanny (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Golf Ball (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Grassy (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Liy (With Two's powers): >31x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Marker (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Pen (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Pencil (With Two's powers): >37x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Price Tag (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Snowball (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Tennis Ball (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Tree (With Two's powers): >2x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • TV (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Winner (With Two's powers): >1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Two: >17x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Four: > >/= 17x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes (Is accepted to be equal to/stronger than Two)
  • Four (With Two's powers): > >/= 34x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • Pencil (With Two and Four's powers): > >/= 54x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes
  • One (With Two and Four's powers): > >/= 56x 1 one-shot value above baseline 2 universes (Note: She had obtained Donut's powers earlier)
(Note: It is currently accepted that all of the regular contestants scale to a casual Two who is above a casual One who is baseline 2 universes)

Miscellaneous Additions
Object Physiology
Budget Cut Users
Bell
Black Hole
Bomby
Book
1751544486-image-2024-10-05-233250458.png

Bottle
Coiny
Donut
Evil Leafy
Firey
Four
Golf Ball
Leafy
Liy
One
Pencil
Pin
Price Tag
Ruby
Tennis Ball
TV
Winner
Tally
Agree: ActuallySpaceMan42, FinePoint, Theglassman12
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
Last edited:
Battle For Limitless Power... AND Speed! (Infinite Speed Upgrade)
In the episode Seasonal Shift, a major plot point has Pen ask TV to scan the timeline's past to detect the missing failed debuters, to which he completes his analysis in 3 seconds. As he did this, he appeared to be doing this on a universal scale as evident with the line "Calibrating Universes" (The first message that shows up when he is scanning the timeline). It's a feat that's certainly impressive, but it only gets better by the fact that due to how the BFDI universe is infinite in size, TV was essentially looking through an infinite amount of bits and operations to search for the missing failed debuters in just a finite amount of time, something that would require Infinite perception speed to pull off.
I don't understand the logic here. TV knows where the battles took place, why would he search the entire universe??? This is retrocognition and it is shown that it did not encompass the entire timeline, he saw the previous battles from 2008 to 2021.
 
I don't understand the logic here. TV knows where the battles took place, why would he search the entire universe??? This is retrocognition and it is shown that it did not encompass the entire timeline, he saw the previous battles from 2008 to 2021.
Pen was never specific in what part of the past TV should scan, and so he had to have been scanning the whole past of entire universe as per the very first line that shows up on his screen.
 
Pen was never specific in what part of the past TV should scan
Pen ask TV to scan the timeline's past to detect the missing failed debuters
Pen warns that it's to find the debuters, TV knows where the battles take place.

the whole past of entire universe as per the very first line that shows up on his screen.
It's literally shown on the screen the period of time that the TV searched.

You're giving infinite speed to an entire verse based on a single frame, which is ambiguous and there's no other feat that supports that level of speed.

And this shouldn't count towards perception speed anyway. The Wiki doesn't give speed for seeing the future/past of universes.
 
Last edited:
Pen warns that it's to find the debuters, TV knows where the battles take place.
I do not know why you decided to post Imgur links when the episodes are right there on YouTube

Again, Pen never explicitly tells TV to search just 2008 and onwards. And even if you do assume this, there's still the fact that the universe is infinite in size, so he'd still need to be processing an infinite amount of bits and operations in a finite amount of time.
You're giving infinite speed to an entire verse based on a single frame, which is ambiguous and there's no other feat that supports that level of speed.

And this shouldn't count towards perception speed anyway. The Wiki doesn't give speed for seeing the future/past of universes.
The line "Scanning Timeline" indicates that TV was checking the entire universe to track where the missing debuters were, not to mention that one other line I stated is still enough to indicate that TV was indeed checking the entire universe. Also, I never said that the entire verse scales to Infinite speed, only One, Two, and Four (As well as the POT users due to them having a portion of Two's power) since they are the top tiers of the verse especially since the former blitzed TV's perception speed while it's consistently stated on a narrative basis that the Algebraliens are superior to the contestants.

This definitely counts towards perception speed, as he is pretty much processing an infinite amount of bits and operations in a finite amount of time similar to DC Lucifer's famous processing feat (The latter feat was done at finite speed, but you get the idea that qualifies as a speed feat).
 
  • The first issue is that TV is not always operating at this level of Perception Speed. Just like some characters can move at high speeds using techniques, it seems like TV only has this level of perception speed when they're scanning something or the timeline. So it would be Infinite Perception Speed with Information Analysis, or Cosmic Awareness? Maybe even Precognition, since it would be scanning the future as well.
  • Another thing is that Perception Speed is different than Reaction Speed. Having high Perception Speed means you can perceive something is happening, but you may not be able to react to it. Aside from that, although no one seems to react while the blitz is happening, a few characters do change their expressions AFTER the blitz, while others don't, which makes me think a lot of them just didn't care.
  • What's that thing One says let's them all remember?
Aside from that, all the abilities seem fine.
 
The first issue is that TV is not always operating at this level of Perception Speed. Just like some characters can move at high speeds using techniques, it seems like TV only has this level of perception speed when they're scanning something or the timeline. So it would be Infinite Perception Speed with Information Analysis, or Cosmic Awareness? Maybe even Precognition, since it would be scanning the future as well.
It's not Precognition, as TV was only tasked to scan the past, not the future. But I guess Infinite perception speed via Information Analysis sounds fine. What about the other piece of evidence that implies that Two and Four are superior to the speed of Black Hole's theoretical maximum size (Which is Infinite in speed)? Would that still be fine to use as evidence that Two and Four are likely Infinite in speed?
Another thing is that Perception Speed is different than Reaction Speed. Having high Perception Speed means you can perceive something is happening, but you may not be able to react to it. Aside from that, although no one seems to react while the blitz is happening, a few characters do change their expressions AFTER the blitz, while others don't, which makes me think a lot of them just didn't care.
They only changed their reactions upon noticing that they were moved, but none of them were able to point out One as if nobody saw her. Also, I'm already aware that perception speed =/= reaction speed, but I say this because people with high reaction speed should've been able to spot One passing by them through mental reactions even if they can't physically react to her, yet nobody does as if they failed to notice her.
What's that thing One says let's them all remember?
It's supposed to be a reference to a previous episode where she gives the contestants their memories related to the original timeline back when the past was altered.
 
It's not Precognition, as TV was only tasked to scan the past, not the future. But I guess Infinite perception speed via Information Analysis sounds fine. What about the other piece of evidence that implies that Two and Four are superior to the speed of Black Hole's theoretical maximum size (Which is Infinite in speed)? Would that still be fine to use as evidence that Two and Four are likely Infinite in speed?
It would feel the same as scaling someone's speed based on an explosion, simply because they're said to be stronger than the blast rather than actually equating their AP to, or placing it above, the explosion's output.
They only changed their reactions upon noticing that they were moved, but none of them were able to point out One as if nobody saw her. Also, I'm already aware that perception speed =/= reaction speed, but I say this because people with high reaction speed should've been able to spot One passing by them through mental reactions even if they can't physically react to her, yet nobody does as if they failed to notice her.
I get that part, and it scales her above all their speeds, just not seeing infinite from it.
It's supposed to be a reference to a previous episode where she gives the contestants their memories related to the original timeline back when the past was altered.
Gotcha.
 
It would feel the same as scaling someone's speed based on an explosion, simply because they're said to be stronger than the blast rather than actually equating their AP to, or placing it above, the explosion's output.
If I'm to bring something up, we did end up accepting Two and Four's powers scaling to Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form with a "possibly" rating in a previous CRT under the same basis that I'm bringing up, being that Two's power is something seen by the contestants as far superior to them. So, if both Two and Four can possibly scale to this form in power, then what's stopping them from having equal leeway in speed?
 
If I'm to bring something up, we did end up accepting Two and Four's powers scaling to Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form with a "possibly" rating in a previous CRT under the same basis that I'm bringing up, being that Two's power is something seen by the contestants as far superior to them. So, if both Two and Four can possibly scale to this form in power, then what's stopping them from having equal leeway in speed?
Hmm, alright, put for neutral right now. I want to see what other staff say; I might change my vote.
 
The Infinite Speed (and Supergenius) justification feels too vague to me.
There's a lot of ways one could "scan our past", and from the looks of it, it was looking at video.

So, unless there's more/way better feats at that level, it's a hard disagree from me.

Everything else seems generally fine.
 
The Infinite Speed (and Supergenius) justification feels too vague to me.
There's a lot of ways one could "scan our past", and from the looks of it, it was looking at video.

So, unless there's more/way better feats at that level, it's a hard disagree from me.

Everything else seems generally fine.
What about the other piece of evidence for Infinite speed?
If I'm to bring something up, we did end up accepting Two and Four's powers scaling to Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form with a "possibly" rating in a previous CRT under the same basis that I'm bringing up, being that Two's power is something seen by the contestants as far superior to them. So, if both Two and Four can possibly scale to this form in power, then what's stopping them from having equal leeway in speed?
 
Yeah, that's one of the co-creators.
Eh. Still feels like reaching/very indirect.

I mean, you're a fan, right?

Do you, contextually, feel like it makes sense for these characters to be capable of regularly moving at infinite speeds?
 
Do you, contextually, feel like it makes sense for these characters to be capable of regularly moving at infinite speeds?
I never said that every character scales to this, as I'm very much aware that if everyone scaled to Infinite speed then it would break the narrative of multiple episodes. However, the reason why I say that this should still (possibly) scale to Two and Four is because of how they are regularly treated as being superior to the contestants while also being heavily implied to be holding back when dealing with them in order to keep the narrative consistent.
 
The Infinite Speed (and Supergenius) justification feels too vague to me. There's a lot of ways one could "scan our past", and from the looks of it, it was looking at video.
Pretty sure it's the computer scaling, which is a living thing, not the people looking at it.
 
I never said that every character scales to this, as I'm very much aware that if everyone scaled to Infinite speed then it would break the narrative of multiple episodes. However, the reason why I say that this should still (possibly) scale to Two and Four is because of how they are regularly treated as being superior to the contestants while also being heavily implied to be holding back when dealing with them.
Alright. In that case I'll accept it as a Possibly for Two and Four.
 
Alright. In that case I'll accept it as a Possibly for Two and Four.
I'm still not sure about this. I feel like, being stronger than a being with infinite speed, through essentially Size Manipulation, doesn'r mean you need Infintie Speed as well, especially since Two and Four's abilities seem to be based in hax.
 
I'm still not sure about this. I feel like, being stronger than a being with infinite speed, through essentially Size Manipulation, doesn'r mean you need Infintie Speed as well, especially since Two and Four's abilities seem to be based in hax.
Well that's why I'm only willing to accept a Possibly.

However, it also could mean that, so I'm deferring to Psychomaster (who's a supporter) on whether that seems likely in context, since I wouldn't know.
 
Fair enough.
If I'm to bring something up, we did end up accepting Two and Four's powers scaling to Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form with a "possibly" rating in a previous CRT under the same basis that I'm bringing up, being that Two's power is something seen by the contestants as far superior to them. So, if both Two and Four can possibly scale to this form in power, then what's stopping them from having equal leeway in speed?
I'll settle for possibly.
 
Sure thing. I'll also update the Infinite speed upgrade section to clarify that the evidence being accepted is Two and Four being possibly faster than Black Hole's theoretical maximum sized form.
 
This finalized method of scaling the top tiers to Infinite speed is better than the one you presented a few weeks ago in the Object Show General Discussion thread. Thanks for taking some of my advice. I mostly agree with the revision proposals. Good job. 👍
 
I apologize if it's been taking long to apply this revision to every profile, but I was just recently diagnosed with a condition that might hinder me from applying it to the remaining 40 or so pages (Apparently the amount of people with budget cuts due to being hosts at one point is a lot). It's putting a lot of work in me that I may need to take some time to treat my condition, so in the meantime, if anyone wants to apply everything to the remaining pages, here are the pages that are already done:
  • Every host profile (Minus BFDIA hosts)
  • One
  • Evil Leafy
  • BFB Debuters in alphabetical order from 8-Ball to Liy
  • Price Tag
  • Winner
Anything else I didn't name, people are free to apply them ASAP. Don't forget to add citations in the correct formatting as well.
 
Last edited:
I apologize if it's been taking long to apply this revision to every profile, but I was just recently diagnosed with a condition that might hinder me from applying it to the remaining 40 or so pages (Apparently the amount of people with budget cuts due to being hosts at one point is a lot). It's putting a lot of work in me that I may need to take some time to treat my condition, so in the meantime, if anyone wants to apply everything to the remaining pages, here are the pages that are already done:
  • Every host profile (Minus BFDIA hosts)
  • One
  • Evil Leafy
  • BFB Debuters in alphabetical order from 8-Ball to Liy
  • Price Tag
  • Winner
Anything else I didn't name, people are free to apply them ASAP. Don't forget to add citations in the correct formatting as well.
It's nothing to be sorry about, don't worry. If the revisions aren't applied by the next time I log into Fandom, I'll consider working on it.
 
Are all the revisions applied by now? Sorry for only revising one of the many profiles. If there are more revisions to be done, I'm still willing to take the opportunity to help out. If all the revisions are complete, then this thread is ready to be locked.
 
Are all the revisions applied by now? Sorry for only revising one of the many profiles. If there are more revisions to be done, I'm still willing to take the opportunity to help out. If all the revisions are complete, then this thread is ready to be locked.
They've all already been applied last month
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top