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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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Regarding The Titan, I heard something interesting about it, from SGDQ 2025's run, of all places.

Supposedly, it doesn't have a weakness to the BlackShard while its defenses are up to regenerate.

Considering that's the phase where visually, it has wrapped itself in its angelic wings, it's semi-believable those wouldn't be Dark Element....
What do you all think?


Also, considering it's called fear itself & its spawn are called a shard of fear, I'm surprised the profile for it doesn't have Intangibility &/or Abstract Existence. Contentious?
 
Imaginym said:
Considering that's the phase where visually, it has wrapped itself in its angelic wings, it's semi-believable those wouldn't be Dark Element....
What do you all think?
Click to expand...
What would i even list this as? would this be a resistance?
Imaginym said:
Also, considering it's called fear itself & its spawn are called a shard of fear, I'm surprised the profile for it doesn't have Intangibility &/or Abstract Existence. Contentious?
Click to expand...
I sorta figured it was flowery language considering it's the "End of the world" prophecy entity.
 
Imaginym said:
Regarding The Titan, I heard something interesting about it, from SGDQ 2025's run, of all places.

Supposedly, it doesn't have a weakness to the BlackShard while its defenses are up to regenerate.
Click to expand...
It's true

Comiphorous said:
What would i even list this as? would this be a resistance?
Click to expand...
Probs just a limitation of the Black Shard, that it doesn't count the Titan wings as Dark Element.
 
Comiphorous said:
What would i even list this as? would this be a resistance?
Click to expand...
Presumably, the wings are not DARK Element, unlike the rest of it.
Unsure what to list it as; The BlackShard deals extra damage to Dark element targets.
I guess it'd be a note, maybe in the weaknesses? (Is Dark element, which may be weak to some sources, but its wings are not?)
Comiphorous said:
I sorta figured it was flowery language considering it's the "End of the world" prophecy entity.
Click to expand...
Even with Ralsei's whole intro speech calling it the bump in the night, the fear of dark, the shadow in the back of your mind, IIRC?

Do we not have enough for even a Possibly/Likely?
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
It's true


Probs just a limitation of the Black Shard, that it doesn't count the Titan wings as Dark Element.
Click to expand...

I would assume it's that the Wings aren't Dark Element, but maybe they have some effect to remove or ignore a weakness or be treated as being a different element?
 
Imaginym said:
Apologies if I'm a bit late about this, but some other things I noticed. (Was waiting to bring them up until after a bit of discussion since my earlier long post.)

In the Dark Sanctuary, IIRC, there are Watercoolers on the overworld; Mizzles, referred to as water spirits well exit them, & the jug will appear to become emptied.
(Haven't checked footage recently, but pretty sure.)

A. Mizzles are exiting through the faucets/taps water wouild be poured from.
B. They're intangible & can exit the watercoolers.
C. The watercoolers are part of their bodies.

What do you all think?

Whatever the case, it almost certainly has ramifications because Tenna sealed the Mizzles into the watercooler; He either disabled their shapeshifting &./or intangibility, because they seem to normally be able to exit them freely.


Also, we have semi-confirmation the SOUL is thought to be a Human one; Most flavor text in Deltarune is written with "You" as being Kris.
When you check the pile of heart pillows outside Carol's room's door:

If Noelle & Susie are with you, Noelle says her mom just likes red, heart-shaped objects.
If Kris is alone, the narration says, IIRC, that it could be a matter of opinion which, but it looks like either a red, heart-shaped object or a human SOUL.
Likely meaning Kris thinks the red heart shape looks like a human SOUL. (Although, they could be mistaken, & maybe it is a "demon" or "demon heart" or inhuman SOUL or something.)


Kris might have Enhanced Senses (Vision): The narration in the Jackenstein fight (Possible gag feat.) mentions there being a texture of a dog playing maracas. On the other hand, Kris has flavour text indicating them having trouble identifying Susie & Ralsei in that, so maybe it's contradictory. (Also, the SOUL can emit light, but we don't see it doing so when it's not in the mazes or going after the pumpkin.)

Another case of what might be Extrasensory Perception, Enhanced Senses or Precognition:

In The Roaring Knight's battle (& The Titan fight.) the flavour text corresponds to what attack is coming after The Delta Warriors finish their turn.
One of the most puzzling examples is on turn 2 of The Roaring Knight's battle:

"You felt something hovering close behind your head..."
This precedes the tracking swords.

So:

1. If the SOUL is a higher plane's being:
1-A: The SOUL enters the lower realm of Deltarune to go into the Bullet Board??
1-B: The Battle Box is a higher plane's being?? (Yet it leaves bodies to go into the Bullet Board?)
1-C: The head is that of the meta-textual player (Obviously, a human player from The Real World can't be the "player"/SOUL in Deltarune.), & that's what the sword is hovering behind. (Why would The Knight use only this move for this & hit Kris, then, when the swords are aimed the player/SOUL? Plus, The Knight does not break the SOUL.)
1-D: The SOUL/player is in a higher plane, & Kris is sensing the sword behind that through some kind of connection of theirs.

Not to mention, the flavour text being from Kris's perspective likely, like most flavour text in DR.

So I hope it's understandable why I think this flavour text being for the SOUL -If it's in a higher plane or something- would need more substantiating evidence.
So what about other explanations?

A. It's a case of temporal deja vu.
This is hard to prove, as most stuff about a previous timeline being known to, experienced/sensed/perceived by Kris is tricky.

B. It's Precognition; The flavour text is from Kris & they somehow know what's coming next. (Is the narrator always Kris? Why do they have Precognition?)

C. It's mundane with gameplay & story segregation: Ex: Kris is feeling air currents or something from the hovering sword following their head, & battles in universe don't actually give all the time you could want to decide.
C-A: The flavour text is "real time" about what's in the moment. Ex: Moment to moment, Kris felt something hovering behind their head, felt the north wind blew, their vision narrowed....

But what about this...?:

You felt lightheaded. You saw golden stars...

That's for Star Storm 2, & like the other flavour text, it's past tense. Words like "felt" & "saw".
The stars aren't golden in the bullet board, which is strange.... Maybe more proof that the battles are abstractions?
It COULD be interpreted as akin to the Toon Force like symptom of seeing stars spinning above your head after taking a blow, but it happens regardless of how many, if any hits were taken & it would be, dare I say, out of place to have a toon force like moment described in that battle.
Visions in the eyes from having trouble keeping eyes open?

Yet, the flavour text is seen before the attack...? Despite that it speaks of stars in past tense...?
So is it a real time reaction?


Anyway, regardless, Kris is sensing something statedly hovering behind their head; This is either Enhanced Senses -Noticing air currents or something; How isn't stated- or some kind of perception?

Or it's gameplay & story separation & Toby is using flavour text to help players by giving them warnings about what moves are next since many enemies have fixed patterns.

TL;DR - "You felt something hovering behind your head" flavour text in The Roaring Knight's encounter brings up question of how Kris knows it's there. Also, Chapter 4 has Mizzles exiting overworld watercoolers, indicating Shapeshifting &/or Intangibility, which should improve Tenna's Sealing.


BTW, has anyone calculated Susie's OKHeal range? In Chapter 4, she unwittingly launches one from across a large room & hits Jackenstein's true, small head.


Shouldn't Kris/The SOUL have Immersion & Limited Technology with the Odd Controller? When booting up Mantle/The Original Game with The Odd Controller, the screen glitches, skips the title screen, & boots up the game -If that is the actual Mantle game that was booted up- with the SOUL, with HERO_SWORD/Lilkris over top of the SOUL. (Although, HERO_SWORD is later shown to disappear when the controller is unplugged, suggesting it's separate from Kris.)

(Oh, & The Player is a profile apparently, & shared for UT & Deltarune?)

Shouldn't The Shadow Mantle Holder have bestowment of Immersion &/or Spatial Manipulation &/or more Light Manipulation & Reality Warping? Maybe Darkness Manipulation?

Basis: IIRC, after their boss fight is over, the light from the game's screen disappears & the dark hallway room with The Shadow Mantle chest can be walked into Kris; The lack of light from the game screen suggests it's no longer a luminous screen, but the dark room it appears to be, just connected to the console room, supported by both Kris & HERO_SWORD/LilKris being able to move into & out of it.



Sorry for the super wordy post, all. Thoughts, please, folks?
Click to expand...
Reposting, re-asking this because new day, new page & it was late in the page.

From the post:
TL;DR - "You felt something hovering behind your head" flavour text in The Roaring Knight's encounter brings up question of how Kris knows it's there. Also, Chapter 4 has Mizzles exiting overworld watercoolers, indicating Shapeshifting &/or Intangibility, which should improve Tenna's Sealing.
Other things:
Susie might have a range feat with OKHeal in the cutscene where the Old Man dodges so that she heals Jackenstein's real head.
Odd Controller may give Kris/The SOUL Immersion & Limited Technology Manipulation.

There's a profile for the player, shared for UT & DR, apparently?

Shouldn't The Shadow Mantle Holder have bestowment of Immersion &/or Spatial Manipulation &/or more Light Manipulation & Reality Warping? Maybe Darkness Manipulation?

Basis: IIRC, after their boss fight is over, the light from the game's screen disappears & the dark hallway room with The Shadow Mantle chest can be walked into Kris; The lack of light from the game screen suggests it's no longer a luminous screen, but the dark room it appears to be, just connected to the console room, supported by both Kris & HERO_SWORD/LilKris being able to move into & out of it.



I'd really like people to weigh in about these topics, please.
 
Imaginym said:
Regarding The Titan, I heard something interesting about it, from SGDQ 2025's run, of all places.

Supposedly, it doesn't have a weakness to the BlackShard while its defenses are up to regenerate.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I also noticed that on my playthrough.
 
Comiphorous said:
I sorta figured it was flowery language considering it's the "End of the world" prophecy entity.
Click to expand...
By the way, the Titan Spawn description also says "A shard of fear. Appears in places of deepest dark.

But neither type of abstract existence really describes the Titan or the Titan Spawn and they're not really immortal anyway.
 
Edutyn said:
I was bored so I did this.

Every Feat from ch3 & ch4

AP:

Tenna GBE: 131.89 Kilojoules (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Lanino heats things up: 0.00391 Tons of TNT per second (9-B+)
Shadowguys bullets KE: 0.00122144028017378095 Tons of TNT to 0.00400845029720960783 Tons of TNT (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Elnina cools things down: 0,005581767 Tons per/s (9-B+) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 0,013 Tons (Small Building Level+)
Golden Tenna KE: 0,051302641 Tons (Small Building Level) - Need Evaluation
The watercooler shows no mercy: 0,886674051 Tons of TNT (Building Level)
Elnina creates ice crystals - 1.11 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 1.31 Tons of TNT (8-C+, Building Level) - Need Evaluation
HolywaterCooler showns no mercy: 2,614663133 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level)
Tenna weather report: 0,021394794 Tons (Small Building Level) to 1.994990385049 Kilotons (Small Town Level) - Need Evaluation


Speed:
Susie Runs Fast: 102.012289855 m/s, or Subsonic
Tenna Speed: 222.409710925m/s (Subsonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Bullets: 259.35m/s or Mach 0.75 (Subsonic) - Need Evaluation
"HERE I COME, PIZZARINA!!!": 329.511717792 m/s or Mach 0.96 (Transonic)
Kris shares their Chocolate Milk with the Player :): 548.546370967741935 m/s or Mach 1.6 (Supersonic)
Tenna cuts the screen: 1481.9117647m/s or Mach 4.3204424627 (Supersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 2401m/s or Mach 7 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Gerson Speed: 3405.59410072m/s or Mach 9.92 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Susie moves faster than sound: 800 m/s or Mach 2.33236151603 (Supersonic) to 5920m/s or Mach 17.2594752187 (Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Lightning: 537777.777778m/s or Mach 1567.86524133 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Tenna's Lightning Attack: Mach 2092.98757097 (Massively Hypersonic+) to Mach 6954.11999386 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Smash Cut: 111200m/s or Mach 324.198250729 (Massively Hypersonic) to 88000000m/s or 0.29353640377c (Relativistic) - Need Evaluation
Shocking Laser Dodge: 43.75% SoL, which is Relativistic - Must be discussed

LS:
Shadowguys bullets KE: 1.38419372003 Tons to 4.54256488714 Tons (Class 5) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 751347.908287kgf (Class K)
Golden Tenna: 6560700.54238kgf (Class M) - Not Sure - Need Evaluation

Range:

Tenna TP Range: 770.857347593m (Hundreds of Meters)

Bonus:
Thrash Explosion: 0.30 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation?
Kris dodge missiles: 119.158690176m/s to 155.780856423 m/s (Subsonic)
Chaos, Bigger Chaos!: 1.00628884824 tons (Building level) - Need Evaluation
Click to expand...
Updated
 
RinneItachi said:
Bro I didn't ever think of this but now that I've seen it I can't stop imaging how cool some interactions between these characters would be. Like absolute peak fictional dialogue. They would never fight but would be the best friends ever. Literally perfect.
Click to expand...
time for someone to write peak fanfic while they make vsthreads with gerson.
 
RinneItachi said:
Bro I didn't ever think of this but now that I've seen it I can't stop imaging how cool some interactions between these characters would be. Like absolute peak fictional dialogue. They would never fight but would be the best friends ever. Literally perfect.
Click to expand...
The interesting thing is that their philosophies are opposites. One sees fate as immovable while the other sees it as a story whose ending can change.

I would like to see them interact as they are both wise people but with completely opposite philosophies.
 


"Hello.

It's almost been 10 years since UNDERTALE released.

Now, I'm looking for your memories.

Let's turn back together.

Face the flower and speak.

memories.undertale.com
UNDERTALE - Memories
memories.undertale.com"


"It would be great if you could submit within 24 hours."



"There are so many submissions, the site is having trouble... If your submission is stuck on 'Submitting', please try sending it again later. Your submission should be auto-saved in your browser."
 
Last edited:
GwytqTUXwAAbnN5
 
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