Superman (2025) Movie Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Theglassman12]

@Hypertornado099 He's the main villain of the movie, why would he not have his own page? Also whether or not he did the big bang by himself means nothing when he still did it in the end, so it would just give him a separate tier via prep.

 

[Dalesean027]

That's what I mean, so if WoG states that, then even someone like WW would then fall under that. But post the events of Superman, in a new movie or show later on, if a Brand New Metahuman or entity is showcased that didn't exist before (Example, let's say hypothetically, Nathaniel Adam doesn't become "Captain Atom" until after the events of Superman. Doesn't get those powers, etc.) but showcases some level of feat that is better than what Supes showed being able to do (Yet) or has a calc superior to what Supes scales to, then would those statements retroactively attempt to scale him over them? Or would they fall out of the purview of those statements being 1, they never existed within that 300 year time, and appear well after the WoG Statement.

Hopefully that makes sesense

I mean again that just goes right back to what I said already

Really just a case by case basis because well inevitably see what the character is about and kinda where their scaling lies in whatever projects they are introduced in. We can likely exclude beings not on earth though unless we have further context for them

On top of that though I said this as well

im sure this question would pop up if anything like that were to happen if someone showed up with big feats or notable status anyways.

It's not like WoG statements can't be repeated or people ain't gonna have clarification when we do see these things but otherwise for most goons they likely fill fall into the statement I'd imagine

 

[Dinobot1996]

So Lex gets impressive preparation tiering, otherwise he's like 9-C with a gun, and... I don't think he really does anything physical beyond dragging away Eve. I guess his durability might get into tier 9 considering he was able to get up after getting thrashed by a casual Krypto.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

the statement would apply even if someone wasnt active in those 300 years because its a WOG from an omniscient narrator versus solely an in universe statement, obviously if theres contradictory evidence then we would have to evaluate it case by case.

 

[Dinobot1996]

An additional statement from James Gunn describing Superman as the most powerful metahuman of all time:

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

An additional statement from James Gunn describing Superman as the most powerful metahuman of all time:

Yes, but that statement only qualifies him for Strongest in that 300 year span, not necessarily what comes after.

I asked initial, and like @Dalesean027 said, it's basically case by case, but I asked because we see the Statements in the movie and WoG but I want to know it's going to be used to try and cover Supes retroactively.

Together, yes, they mean Superman is the strongest metahuman (Active or Not) in those 300+ years, but logically, that doesn't cover anyone who becomes a Metahuman after the events of the movie. Of course, "within reason", Clark would scale over Street Level Metas for example, but Jane Doe randomly gets a Tier 7 or 6 feat and no context exists to scale Supes over it, WoG shouldn't retroactively scale him as it's made in reference to every Meta in that 300 year span.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Yes, but that statement only qualifies him for Strongest in that 300 year span, not necessarily what comes after.

I asked initial, and like @Dalesean027 said, it's basically case by case, but I asked because we see the Statements in the movie and WoG but I want to know it's going to be used to try and cover Supes retroactively.

Together, yes, they mean Superman is the strongest metahuman (Active or Not) in those 300+ years, but logically, that doesn't cover anyone who becomes a Metahuman after the events of the movie. Of course, "within reason", Clark would scale over Street Level Metas for example, but Jane Doe randomly gets a Tier 7 or 6 feat and no context exists to scale Supes over it, WoG shouldn't retroactively scale him as it's made in reference to every Meta in that 300 year span.

Wait, what? Haven't heard of that, is it in a comics? And is it canon?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Wait, what? Haven't heard of that, is it in a comics? And is it canon?

Lmao! Nah, "Jane Doe" is just a placeholder name for a unknown woman. I was using it as an example.

 

[Hypertornado099]

@Hypertornado099 He's the main villain of the movie, why would he not have his own page? Also whether or not he did the big bang by himself means nothing when he still did it in the end, so it would just give him a separate tier via prep.

I feel like it does matter, if the feat wasn't done by him alone, a Luthorcorp profile would be better? What would the Lex profile even have other than stuff Luthorcorp has developed?

 

[Theglassman12]

Luthorcorp is made by him, where do you think the name came from? At this point you’re just being Ignorant for the sake of it when Luthorcorp is just going to have what Lex made.

 

[Dalesean027]

I feel like it does matter, if the feat wasn't done by him alone, a Luthorcorp profile would be better? What would the Lex profile even have other than stuff Luthorcorp has developed?

Extraordinary Genius Intelligence, combat applicable Analytical Prediction and information analysis, social influencing, etc.

 

[Dinobot1996]

So as far as I can tell, it seems like Luthor's revolver is a Colt Single Action Army, which there happens to be an existing profile for. Not sure how effective he'd be at using it in an actual combat scenario, but it's something at least.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Extraordinary Genius Intelligence, combat applicable Analytical Prediction and information analysis, social influencing, etc.

The analytical prediction and info analysis is using Luthorcorp's tech, which isn't designed by him alone. So again, another reason to just make a Luthorcorp profile instead

Luthorcorp is made by him, where do you think the name came from? At this point you’re just being Ignorant for the sake of it when Luthorcorp is just going to have what Lex made.

You say this like as if the entire company, all of its technology was invented by Luthor alone. We don't even know how much involvement he had in developing basically every invention he has

 

[Damage3245]

Extraordinary Genius Intelligence, combat applicable Analytical Prediction and information analysis, social influencing, etc.

The Analytical Prediction would be limited I believe. IIRC they stated it's only because he knows Superman so well because he's been studying him for years.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

At the very least he got the ideas by himself and judging by how he directly uses his computers and tech during the movie, he also had a hand in the calcs so it's not just him saying "Do that" and Luthorcorp doing everything

 

[Dalesean027]

The analytical prediction and info analysis is using Luthorcorp's tech, which isn't designed by him alone. So again, another reason to just make a Luthorcorp profile instead

This isn't a product of LuthorCorp tech, they explicitly say Lex came up with every single countermeasure himself from just studying Superman. Also man holy headcanon we're told Lex was the one who came up with this shit explicitly

The Analytical Prediction would be limited I believe. IIRC they stated it's only because he knows Superman so well because he's been studying him for years.

Yeah

Honestly hyper you're heing super disingenuous to an insane degree, this is like complaining about Tony Stark using his wealth and resources to afford the tech and materials that he uses to build and design shit himself. A lot of the shit here is directly credited to Lex Luthor himself, him using his own resources isn't a anti-feat

 

[Chariot190]

Are we really suggesting Steve from accounting helped Lex make a big bang, create this tech, etc, as opposed to Lex inventing all this shit, and just paying dudes to put it into action worse case scenario.

This is like Batman designing and creating the designs and blueprints and even material for his tech, and then going "here ya go Lucious, have this shit on my desk by tomorrow". Lucious didn't do anything except follow instructions.

 

[Hypertornado099]

This isn't a product of LuthorCorp tech, they explicitly say Lex came up with every single countermeasure himself from just studying Superman.

This is probably not a great feat, not gonna lie I could come up with counter moves if I studied Superman's fights over the years

Honestly hyper you're heing super disingenuous to an insane degree, this is like complaining about Tony Stark using his wealth and resources to afford the tech and materials that he uses to build and design shit himself. A lot of the shit here is directly credited to Lex Luthor himself, him using his own resources isn't a anti-feat

Are we really suggesting Steve from accounting helped Lex make a big bang, create this tech, etc, as opposed to Lex inventing all this shit, and just paying dudes to put it into action worse case scenario.

This is like Batman designing and creating the designs and blueprints and even material for his tech, and then going "here ya go Lucious, have this shit on my desk by tomorrow". Lucious didn't do anything except follow instructions.

We know Tony designs a majority of his suits by himself. We don't know how much Luthor contributed exactly- and I'm not talking about materials

The only thing I remember credited to Luthor was replicating the big bang to make the pocket universe and presumably the portals, but even so, I don't think that tells us how much of it exactly was his work. Its safer to assume he did it with help from his team you can't compare that to Bruce and Tony

 

[Dalesean027]

This is probably not a great feat, not gonna lie I could come up with counter moves if I studied Superman's fights over the years

Over 2500 counters for very specific positing and circumstances for Superman recognizing his smallest actions for calling different combos into play? Yeah no you're not

The only thing I remember credited to Luthor was replicating the big bang to make the pocket universe and presumably the portals, but even so, I don't think that tells us how much of it exactly was his work. Its safer to assume he did it with help from his team you can't compare that to Bruce and Tony

He is credited for coming up with the over 2500 combinations and counters himself, cloning Superman, creating the pocket dimension and portals leading to it, he explicitly says the he himself came up with the pocket dimension monkey stuff too

 

[Hypertornado099]

He is credited for coming up with the over 2500 combinations and counters himself, cloning Superman, creating the pocket dimension and portals leading to it, he explicitly says the he himself came up with the pocket dimension monkey stuff too

Okay if the cloning Superman thing is credited to just Lex then that's fine

 

[Chariot190]

This is probably not a great feat, not gonna lie I could come up with counter moves if I studied Superman's fights over the years

No you couldn't.
You could not come up thousands of plans and contingencies for every possible action he could take including his actions in response to your actions and have them memorized and actually work even if you had your whole life.

Like my dude, are you secretly the greatest gamer on the planet? For example.

If you could do what you just claimed, why aren't you able to instantly become the best at any game you pick up, like say a fighting game, why aren't you like a TASBot and instantly react to everything your opponent can and will do on the fly, it should be even less difficult as games tend to be rigid and are tied down to what the game actually allows, like a 236m will always be a 236m and can only ever lead into so many things.

And that's a video game, not an actual dude in real time.

We know Tony designs a majority of his suits by himself. We don't know how much Luthor contributed exactly- and I'm not talking about materials

Literally all of it. Luthorcorp in and of itself, is his doing, random graduates he hired acting as extra hands, doesn't change the fact it's Luthor who's inventing all this stuff.

The only thing I remember credited to Luthor was replicating the big bang to make the pocket universe and presumably the portals, but even so, I don't think that tells us how much of it exactly was his work.

If it's credited it to him, why in the hell are you assuming he had help? You are literally arguing "yeah we're told it was him, but maybe literal goons helped perform this inhuman feat that is obviously the first and only case of such a thing in the history of ever".

Its safer to assume he did it with help from his team you can't compare that to Bruce and Tony

No it isn't.
In fact it's actually insane to assume anyone but him did it. If random fodder could just help create a big bang or something, why even mention it? It's not impressive if literal random people can help, and if others can just do that, why aren't they doing it more often?
And no, they don't say this, they don't even imply it, because it simply isn't the case. You're showing baseless conjecture that all known info we have on the topic actively contradicts.

Not only is it exactly like them, I'd wager Lex had even less help given how dangerous some of this was.

 

[LordTracer]

Its safer to assume he did it with help from his team you can't compare that to Bruce and Tony

??? Based on literally what? Lex is the genius here, and we have statements from WoG saying that he can make tech so advanced it’s almost like sorcery, but you think it’s a safer assumption that Joe from Accounting had to help Lex make his stuff?

I’m gonna be honest, it feels like you’re being contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian.

 

[Baken384]

Green lantern corps profile (guy gardner did not invent the ring) incoming

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

his team and company are just there to be resources for his ideas, in a sense an extension of him, he is clearly the genius behind them. nobody besides luthor could be petty enough to think of making a big bang pocket dimension to entrap people like superman or his ex girlfriend lmfao

 

[Dalesean027]

We're maybe getting a christmas special apparently

 

[Theglassman12]

@Hypertornado099 do you have any proof that Luthor didn't make most of the stuff despite the movie saying otherwise? The burden of proof is on you that Luthor needed outside help and not his own intelligence and ingenuity to create the pocket universe or anything else. Also stop the cap with claiming you can do the thousands of contingency plans. You're not Luthor.

 

[Rangoon04]

the point of a Luthorcorp profile seems pretty unnecessary since the general implication is that Lex has access to everything they make. even if he didn't create all of it, he can still use any of it at his will as the CEO. using the Batman example, would Nolan's Bruce not be allowed to use his tech? most of it like his suit, Batmobile, and weapons weren't even made by him directly, rather developed by Lucius Fox, but he still uses them anyway

 

[ShawnFaux]

We don't even know how much involvement he had in developing basically every invention he has

I mean, sure, but by that same token, you (not literally you specifically) also need to take a moment think about what the movie is trying to get across.

Think about the scene where Lex is shouting about "brain beats brawn". Would that make any sense if he had no involvement in any of his tech?

 

[Dinobot1996]

A new and rather informative James Gunn interview video is out now:

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

 

[That_moron2]

He will become Bizzaro

 

[AtomicSekiro]

What is the consensus on the black hole scene? I’m already seeing powerscalers say things like he “escaped a black hole, putting him at ftl and planet level” and etc even though that makes no sense Considering THE REST OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

 

[Arkenis]

What is the consensus on the black hole scene? I’m already seeing powerscalers say things like he “escaped a black hole, putting him at ftl and planet level” and etc even though that makes no sense Considering THE REST OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

He's just very far away from it making the feat weaker and he doesn't need to be ftl or even ls to escape.

 

[Chariot190]

What is the consensus on the black hole scene? I’m already seeing powerscalers say things like he “escaped a black hole, putting him at ftl and planet level” and etc even though that makes no sense Considering THE REST OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

Wasn't close enough for it to be anything of note.

 

[Dalesean027]

What is the consensus on the black hole scene? I’m already seeing powerscalers say things like he “escaped a black hole, putting him at ftl and planet level” and etc even though that makes no sense Considering THE REST OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

its a legit nothingburger not worth a thing

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

What is the consensus on the black hole scene? I’m already seeing powerscalers say things like he “escaped a black hole, putting him at ftl and planet level” and etc even though that makes no sense Considering THE REST OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

oh damn, I think I don't really check powerscalers on YouTube or any other sites that much considering alot can be pretty ass

but the best High-Balls Ives seen was Goji-Chronic making DCU Superman Mountain lvl from the Blackholes by using a calc for Omni man being near a blackhole which definitely has a different size than DCU's

 

[Arkenis]

but the best High-Balls Ives seen was Goji-Chronic making DCU Superman Mountain lvl from the Blackholes by using a calc for Omni man being near a blackhole which definitely has a different size than DCU's

aren't bhs like uni in marvel or is that dc?

 

[Dinobot1996]

More on Ultraman from an interview with James Gunn:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: The first thing I want to ask you about is this Ultraman reveal. Knowing that the same actor who was going to play Superman would be playing Ultraman, did it make you want to look out for certain things in the audition process?

JAMES GUNN: It didn't really. Just thought the guy needed to be a good actor, but I knew what I was looking for in Superman was so much more varied and nuanced than what had often been looked for in somebody to play Superman. He had to be funny, he had to be emotional, he had to do all this different acting stuff. He had to do that scene with Rachel — the long interview scene — and anybody that could do that could be this goofy idiot that is Ultraman.

It felt like part Bizarro from the comics, but also it made me think of Nuclear Man from Superman IV: The Quest for Peace [1987]. Is it fair to say that you had a lot of different inspirations for this particular incarnation of Ultraman?

Yeah, for sure. It's funny, [Marvel Studios President] Kevin Feige wrote me yesterday, He says he hopes his old pal Bizarro... [Laughs] He wants to see Bizarro. Yeah, I think he's all those things, but also just kind of this f---ed-up version of Clark. There used to be some sadder stuff in there at some point that I got from the script that I really liked. I didn't have time for everything. You don't have time for everything.

Sadder stuff for Ultraman?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know if you noticed...David's got prosthetics on [as Ultraman]. He's got a chin that's jutting out, his ears poke out, he's got one eye kind of going in a little direction. [Luthor] took him out of the oven a little too quickly or something.

I also got a really fun kick out of the image of Ultraman tumbling back into the pocket universe. It reminded me very much of General Zod and his cronies at the end of Superman II [1980]. Was that a direct influence for that moment?

I can see where you would see it. I didn't think of it, but who knows? Those things all affect you. You don't know where things come from, but, yeah, I like to think about where he's going and what he's going to do next.

 

[Arkenis]

JAMES GUNN: It didn't really. Just thought the guy needed to be a good actor, but I knew what I was looking for in Superman was so much more varied and nuanced than what had often been looked for in somebody to play Superman. He had to be funny, he had to be emotional, he had to do all this different acting stuff. He had to do that scene with Rachel — the long interview scene — and anybody that could do that could be this goofy idiot that is Ultraman.

That interview scene probably is my second favorite part of the movie lol

 

[Engine]

Didn't watch it yet, but got spoiled so much...

Anyways this movie is flopping here in Asia, especially China. They don't want weak, cringe and cornfest Superman.
Based.