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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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Wild to think we have just a year until the next chapter. Relatively speaking, it won't be long until we have a Chapter 5 spoiler thread!
 
YAY!!!

I have finally....

DEFEATED THE ROARING KNIGHT.

For context, I beat Chapters 3 & 4 around June 4th & 5th, but I realized midway through I seemed to be missing some eggs & mints. Plus, I missed some Castle Town stuff & some post-Chapter 4 Dark World stuff.
So I started a new run.
I procrastinated a lot during that time, then got suspicious that doing Sword Route was a bad thing that should not be done, so after doing a Sword Route & not using the Shadow Mantle, & failing for like, 10 hours because of suboptimal equipment, I reverted to a previous save... & procrastinated for another couple of weeks or so.

Tonight was my second session, & I spent another 10 or so hours -Almost half of it was because I forgot to take the 6th Revive Mint from storage-, trying a couple of different equipment set-ups.
Eventually, I got one that worked.
After lots of effort, I finally beat The Knight the first time I saw its final attack for myself, though social media & Wikis had spoilered some stuff for me. Still, I consider it lucky that the Revive Mint I used to revive Ralsei let him remain with 1 HP to finish off The Knight, the supposed super-powerful Lightner.

For anyone curious, I went in with 6 Revive Mints, 4 Deluxe Dinners, as well as an ExecBuffet & a ReviveDust, the last two being things I thankfully didn't have to use.
Bounce Blade, Tenna Tie & Blue Ribbon on Kris, Toxic Axe, Jevilstail & Dealmaker on Susie, Fiber Scarf, Royal Pin & Pink Ribbon on Ralsei.
I didn't make the TwinRibbon because I'm a hoarder, & wasn't sure if I should preserve the White &/or Pink Ribbon, despite getting another Pink Ribbon in Chapter 3.

But yeah. No Mantle, no Tension Items, no having gotten stronger from those LOST through violence.... Also, not a no hit, but I succeeded.
& with any luck, if this was the wrong action, I can revert to a previous SAVE -Since I have one handy- if it was the wrong choice.

Anyway, I still haven't done the post-Chapter 3 Castle Town stuff, nor have I done the post-Chapter 4 Dark World stuff, so, silly as it might be to ask in this thread, no spoilers on those, please.
 
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Imaginym said:
YAY!!!

I have finally....

DEFEATED THE ROARING KNIGHT.

For context, I beat Chapters 3 & 4 around June 4th & 5th, but I realized midway through I seemed to be missing some eggs & mints. Plus, I missed some Castle Town stuff & some post-Chapter 4 Dark World stuff.
So I started a new run.
I procrastinated a lot during that time, then got suspicious that doing Sword Route was a bad thing that should not be done, so after doing a Sword Route & not using the Shadow Mantle, & failing for like, 10 hours because of suboptimal equipment, I reverted to a previous save... & procrastinated for another couple of weeks or so.

Tonight was my second session, & I spent another 10 or so hours -Almost half of it was because I forgot to take the 6th Revive Mint from storage-, trying a couple of different equipment set-ups.
Eventually, I got one that worked.
After lots of effort, I finally beat The Knight the first time I saw its final attack for myself, though social media & Wikis had spoilered some stuff for me. Still, I consider it lucky that the Revive Mint I used to revive Ralsei let him remain with 1 HP to finish off The Knight, the supposed super-powerful lightner.

For anyone curious, I went in with 6 Revive Mints, 4 Deluxe Dinners, as well as an ExecBuffet & a ReviveDust, the last two being things I thankfully didn't have to use.
Tenna Tie & Blue Ribbon on Kris, Jevilstail & Dealmaker on Susie, Royal Pin & Pink Ribbon on Ralsei.
I didn't make the TwinRibbon because I'm a hoarder, & wasn't sure if I should preserve the White &/or Pink Ribbon, despite getting another Pink Ribbon in Chapter 3.

But yeah. No Mantle, no Tension Items, no having gotten stronger from those LOST through violence.... Also, not a no hit, but I succeeded.
& with any luck, if this was the wrong action, I can revert to a previous SAVE -Since I have one handy- if it was the wrong choice.

Anyway, I still haven't done the post-Chapter 3 Castle Town stuff, nor have I done the post-Chapter 4 Dark World stuff, so, silly as it might be to ask in this thread, no spoilers on those, please.
Click to expand...
man really fought a hard battle
 
Alexander said:
man really fought a hard battle
Click to expand...
Hard maybe for me, my reflexes are garbage.

Sure, I refused some ways to make it easier, but I also had to get good luck, had to do some research, try many times, & finagle to figure out a good set; I worry there will come a time when Deltarune will demand of me reflexes & skills that I do not have.
 
I was bored so I did this.

Every Feat from ch3 & ch4

AP:

Tenna GBE: 376.12776 Kilojoules (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Lanino heats things up: 0.00391 Tons of TNT per second (9-B+)
Shadowguys bullets KE: 0.00122144028017378095 Tons of TNT to 0.00400845029720960783 Tons of TNT (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Elnina cools things down: 0,005581767 Tons per/s (9-B+) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 0,013 Tons (Small Building Level+)
Golden Tenna KE: 0,318222328 Tons (Building Level) - Need Evaluation
The watercooler shows no mercy: 0,886674051 Tons of TNT (Building Level)
Elnina creates ice crystals - 1.11 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 1.31 Tons of TNT (8-C+, Building Level) - Need Evaluation
HolywaterCooler showns no mercy: 2,614663133 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: 55,451298567 Tons of TNT to 79,849869981 Tons of TNT (City Block Level+) - Need Evaluation
The Justice is made of Sound: 320,542731836 Tons of TNT to 461,581534417 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level) - Need Evaluation
Tenna weather report: 0,021394794 Tons (Small Building Level) to 1.994990385049 Kilotons (Small Town Level) - Need Evaluation


Speed:
Susie Runs Fast: 102.012289855 m/s, or Subsonic
Tenna Speed: 222.409710925m/s (Subsonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Bullets: 259.35m/s or Mach 0.75 (Subsonic) - Need Evaluation
"HERE I COME, PIZZARINA!!!": 329.511717792 m/s or Mach 0.96 (Transonic)
Kris shares their Chocolate Milk with the Player :): 548.546370967741935 m/s or Mach 1.6 (Supersonic)
Tenna cuts the screen: 1481.9117647m/s or Mach 4.3204424627 (Supersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 2401m/s or Mach 7 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Gerson Speed: 3405.59410072m/s or Mach 9.92 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Susie moves faster than sound: 8000 m/s or Mach 23.3236151603 (Hypersonic+) to 9600m/s or Mach 27.9883381924 (High Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: Mach 32.7300731613 to Mach 39.2760877936 (High Hypersonic)
The Justice is made of Sound: 26991.5735078m/s or Mach 78.6926341335 to 32389.8882m/s or Mach 94.7072754 (High Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Vs Lightning: 537777.777778m/s or Mach 1567.86524133 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Tenna's Lightning Attack: Mach 2092.98757097 (Massively Hypersonic+) to Mach 6954.11999386 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Smash Cut: 111200m/s or Mach 324.198250729 (Massively Hypersonic) to 88000000m/s or 0.29353640377c (Relativistic) - Need Evaluation
Shocking Laser Dodge: 43.75% SoL, which is Relativistic - Must be discussed

LS:
Shadowguys bullets KE: 1.38419372003 Tons to 4.54256488714 Tons (Class 5) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 751347.908287kgf (Class K)
The Justice is made of Sound: 2085.7296732 Tons to 2502.8755997 Tons (Class M) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: 4214.7480732547792286 Tons to 5057.6976847 (Class M) - Need Evaluation
Golden Tenna: 40696.460871 Tons (Class M) - Not Sure - Need Evaluation

Range:

Tenna TP Range: 770.857347593m (Hundreds of Meters)

Bonus:
Thrash Explosion: 0.30 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation?
Kris dodge missiles: 119.158690176m/s to 155.780856423 m/s (Subsonic)
Chaos, Bigger Chaos!: 1.00628884824 tons (Building level) - Need Evaluation
 
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I was really disappointed to see no radio wave attacks from Tenna, that was like the 1 thing I thought was guaranteed as a feat before the chapters came out 🥀
 
technically Sweet Cap'n K_K have attacks that the files refer to as "spr_electricity_wave" that you could probably argue makes them EM waves 🤷‍♀️
 
Seems that when the Knight makes the attack towards the box and it hits a party member who has 1 hp left, they just dodge it
Interesting
 
Arceus0x said:
I mean people seem already attached - could just remake it into the new discussion thread. They need to be changed every once in a while as otherwise info gets lost within dozens and hundreds of pages
Click to expand...
The Dragon Ball Daima spoiler thread was occupied for a long amount of time before stuff re-settled back in the old Discussion Thread.

For the attachment issue, who cares. Just link the old thread and tell people to keep talking there, not too hard.

EDIT: Also 57 pages isn't even that long, lol.
 
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Edutyn said:
Kris shares their Chocolate Milk with the Player :): 548.546370967741935 m/s or Mach 1.6 (Supersonic)
Click to expand...
AFAIK, everything else in the quoted post is fine, but:
Like, the speed is fine, & I don't personally mind Light World Kris being Wall Level or higher, but....

I hate saying this, & I'm sorry, please, please, please, don't kill me, all, but I think there's an issue with the AP calc proposed in the comments by @Psychomaster35 .

"(Ignore the green line)
"SOUL: 56 px/0.26872 meters
Bottle: 86 px/0.41267714285 meters
(0.41267714285/0.224028)^3*0.680389 is 4.25286526056 kg
KE: 0.5*4.25286526056*548.546370967741935^2 is 639850.215264 joules/639.850215264 kilojoules, or Wall level"

The calc assesses the bottle as 4.25 kilograms, but it's a bottle of chocolate milk; Most fluids have densities of around 1 kg per liter, & a liter is 1,000 cm3 (cubic centimeters).

From a quick search, Chocolate Milk has a density of around 1056 kg/m3, according to this here linked source.
1056 kg/m3 = 1.056 g/cm3.

If I'm doing my research right, an arguably pretty dense fluid, molasses, would have a density of 1.4 grams per cm/3, per this other here linked source.


Liters are volume, & if you have density & mass, you can find volume by dividing mass by density.

With that calc's mass of about 4.25 kg & chocolate milk density of 1.056 g/cm3, we get a volume of 4027.3345270455 cm3.

As I'm sure you're all aware of, that's 4 liters. A gallon is standardized at 3.785 liters.

64zxor7opfo31.jpg

A 4 liter milk jug would be heavier than that.

The bottle in the feat is bigger than the glass, definitely, but it's only like half the width of Kris's head, whereas an actual 4 liter jug would basically be about as tall & wide as a real person's head, I'm confident.

Hence the issue; That bottle in Deltarune is seemingly likely not big enough to be 4.25 kg, because that implies it's a 4 liter jug; A 1 gallon jug is 3.785 liters, so that thing would have to be about as voluminous as a real person's head.

The calc gets its volume assumption from a 24oz Hershey's bottle, which, based on the image in the link is likely plastic.
(Which is also less than 700 ml; A lot less volume than a liquid container with that mass would have, unless the container itself is very heavy.)

The Holidays are rich, so maybe they buy super heavy container having chocolate milk. Like, it weighs 4 kilograms, empty? Maybe it's super sturdy glass or metal & didn't shatter because sturdy & SOUL cushioned the blow.
But that's like the weight of a housecat. Most liquids are 1 kg per liter, so say you have a 2 liter, full unopened soda bottle. That would weigh 2 kg, & this calc's bottle would supposedly weigh twice that. Imagine shopping around with that. What kind of store would sell something that impractically heavy, especially if it's just the mass of the container when empty, let alone full?

I'd like to know what others think since there's possibilities like it having a heavy container & if the event can happen when the bottle is full.

Obviously, if it can be activated before any is poured/drank, good. More liquid equals more mass.

I do approve of Light World Kris being Wall Level & Supersonic, or better yet, higher, by any & all means, & I don't mind that for a second, even setting aside my concerns about the chucked chocolate milk container calc. After all, Kris is powerful, awesome & superhuman.

But.... So yeah.

TL;DR - The AP yield calc revision in the comments proposed by @Psychomaster35 for the calc proposes a milk bottle mass that seems too high for a container the size we see, especially a potentially not full one & given the calc basing on a plastic container.



Sorry for any bother with the long & potentially controversial post, all.
Hopefully this is helpful, appreciable & not bothersome.

(Also, there's other Deltarune stuff I wanna bring up, like potential additions/small upgrades, but I worry I'd clog discussion with them if bringing them up at the same as also bringing up this.)
 
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Apologies if I'm a bit late about this, but some other things I noticed. (Was waiting to bring them up until after a bit of discussion since my earlier long post.)

In the Dark Sanctuary, IIRC, there are Watercoolers on the overworld; Mizzles, referred to as water spirits well exit them, & the jug will appear to become emptied.
(Haven't checked footage recently, but pretty sure.)

A. Mizzles are exiting through the faucets/taps water wouild be poured from.
B. They're intangible & can exit the watercoolers.
C. The watercoolers are part of their bodies.

What do you all think?

Whatever the case, it almost certainly has ramifications because Tenna sealed the Mizzles into the watercooler; He either disabled their shapeshifting &./or intangibility, because they seem to normally be able to exit them freely.


Also, we have semi-confirmation the SOUL is thought to be a Human one; Most flavor text in Deltarune is written with "You" as being Kris.
When you check the pile of heart pillows outside Carol's room's door:

If Noelle & Susie are with you, Noelle says her mom just likes red, heart-shaped objects.
If Kris is alone, the narration says, IIRC, that it could be a matter of opinion which, but it looks like either a red, heart-shaped object or a human SOUL.
Likely meaning Kris thinks the red heart shape looks like a human SOUL. (Although, they could be mistaken, & maybe it is a "demon" or "demon heart" or inhuman SOUL or something.)


Kris might have Enhanced Senses (Vision): The narration in the Jackenstein fight (Possible gag feat.) mentions there being a texture of a dog playing maracas. On the other hand, Kris has flavour text indicating them having trouble identifying Susie & Ralsei in that, so maybe it's contradictory. (Also, the SOUL can emit light, but we don't see it doing so when it's not in the mazes or going after the pumpkin.)

Another case of what might be Extrasensory Perception, Enhanced Senses or Precognition:

In The Roaring Knight's battle (& The Titan fight.) the flavour text corresponds to what attack is coming after The Delta Warriors finish their turn.
One of the most puzzling examples is on turn 2 of The Roaring Knight's battle:

"You felt something hovering close behind your head..."
This precedes the tracking swords.

So:

1. If the SOUL is a higher plane's being:
1-A: The SOUL enters the lower realm of Deltarune to go into the Bullet Board??
1-B: The Battle Box is a higher plane's being?? (Yet it leaves bodies to go into the Bullet Board?)
1-C: The head is that of the meta-textual player (Obviously, a human player from The Real World can't be the "player"/SOUL in Deltarune.), & that's what the sword is hovering behind. (Why would The Knight use only this move for this & hit Kris, then, when the swords are aimed the player/SOUL? Plus, The Knight does not break the SOUL.)
1-D: The SOUL/player is in a higher plane, & Kris is sensing the sword behind that through some kind of connection of theirs.

Not to mention, the flavour text being from Kris's perspective likely, like most flavour text in DR.

So I hope it's understandable why I think this flavour text being for the SOUL -If it's in a higher plane or something- would need more substantiating evidence.
So what about other explanations?

A. It's a case of temporal deja vu.
This is hard to prove, as most stuff about a previous timeline being known to, experienced/sensed/perceived by Kris is tricky.

B. It's Precognition; The flavour text is from Kris & they somehow know what's coming next. (Is the narrator always Kris? Why do they have Precognition?)

C. It's mundane with gameplay & story segregation: Ex: Kris is feeling air currents or something from the hovering sword following their head, & battles in universe don't actually give all the time you could want to decide.
C-A: The flavour text is "real time" about what's in the moment. Ex: Moment to moment, Kris felt something hovering behind their head, felt the north wind blew, their vision narrowed....

But what about this...?:

You felt lightheaded. You saw golden stars...

That's for Star Storm 2, & like the other flavour text, it's past tense. Words like "felt" & "saw".
The stars aren't golden in the bullet board, which is strange.... Maybe more proof that the battles are abstractions?
It COULD be interpreted as akin to the Toon Force like symptom of seeing stars spinning above your head after taking a blow, but it happens regardless of how many, if any hits were taken & it would be, dare I say, out of place to have a toon force like moment described in that battle.
Visions in the eyes from having trouble keeping eyes open?

Yet, the flavour text is seen before the attack...? Despite that it speaks of stars in past tense...?
So is it a real time reaction?


Anyway, regardless, Kris is sensing something statedly hovering behind their head; This is either Enhanced Senses -Noticing air currents or something; How isn't stated- or some kind of perception?

Or it's gameplay & story separation & Toby is using flavour text to help players by giving them warnings about what moves are next since many enemies have fixed patterns.

TL;DR - "You felt something hovering behind your head" flavour text in The Roaring Knight's encounter brings up question of how Kris knows it's there. Also, Chapter 4 has Mizzles exiting overworld watercoolers, indicating Shapeshifting &/or Intangibility, which should improve Tenna's Sealing.


BTW, has anyone calculated Susie's OKHeal range? In Chapter 4, she unwittingly launches one from across a large room & hits Jackenstein's true, small head.


Shouldn't Kris/The SOUL have Immersion & Limited Technology with the Odd Controller? When booting up Mantle/The Original Game with The Odd Controller, the screen glitches, skips the title screen, & boots up the game -If that is the actual Mantle game that was booted up- with the SOUL, with HERO_SWORD/Lilkris over top of the SOUL. (Although, HERO_SWORD is later shown to disappear when the controller is unplugged, suggesting it's separate from Kris.)

(Oh, & The Player is a profile apparently, & shared for UT & Deltarune?)

Shouldn't The Shadow Mantle Holder have bestowment of Immersion &/or Spatial Manipulation &/or more Light Manipulation & Reality Warping? Maybe Darkness Manipulation?

Basis: IIRC, after their boss fight is over, the light from the game's screen disappears & the dark hallway room with The Shadow Mantle chest can be walked into Kris; The lack of light from the game screen suggests it's no longer a luminous screen, but the dark room it appears to be, just connected to the console room, supported by both Kris & HERO_SWORD/LilKris being able to move into & out of it.



Sorry for the super wordy post, all. Thoughts, please, folks?
 
Edutyn said:
I was bored so I did this.

Every Feat from ch3 & ch4

AP:

Tenna GBE: 131.89 Kilojoules (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Lanino heats things up: 0.00391 Tons of TNT per second (9-B+)
Shadowguys bullets KE: 0.00122144028017378095 Tons of TNT to 0.00400845029720960783 Tons of TNT (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Elnina cools things down: 0,005581767 Tons per/s (9-B+) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 0,013 Tons (Small Building Level+)
Golden Tenna KE: 0,051302641 Tons (Small Building Level) - Need Evaluation
Elnina creates ice crystals - 1.11 Tons of TNT (Building level)
Tenna weather report: 0,021394794 Tons (Small Building Level) to 1.994990385049 Kilotons (Small Town Level) - Need Evaluation


Speed:
Susie Runs Fast: 102.012289855 m/s, or Subsonic
Tenna Speed: 222.409710925m/s (Subsonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Bullets: 259.35m/s or Mach 0.75 (Subsonic) - Need Evaluation
"HERE I COME, PIZZARINA!!!": 329.511717792 m/s or Mach 0.96 (Transonic)
Kris shares their Chocolate Milk with the Player :): 548.546370967741935 m/s or Mach 1.6 (Supersonic)
Tenna cuts the screen: 1481.9117647m/s or Mach 4.3204424627 (Supersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Gerson Speed: 3405.59410072m/s or Mach 9.92 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Susie moves faster than sound: 800 m/s or Mach 2.33236151603 (Supersonic) to 5920m/s or Mach 17.2594752187 (Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Lightning: 537777.777778m/s or Mach 1567.86524133 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Tenna's Lightning Attack: Mach 2092.98757097 (Massively Hypersonic+) to Mach 6954.11999386 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Smash Cut: 111200m/s or Mach 324.198250729 (Massively Hypersonic) to 88000000m/s or 0.29353640377c (Relativistic) - Need Evaluation
Shocking Laser Dodge: 43.75% SoL, which is Relativistic - Must be discussed

LS:
Shadowguys bullets KE: 1.38419372003 Tons to 4.54256488714 Tons (Class 5) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 751347.908287kgf (Class K)
Golden Tenna: 6560700.54238kgf (Class M) - Not Sure - Need Evaluation

Range:

Tenna TP Range: 770.857347593m (Hundreds of Meters)

Bonus:
Thrash Explosion: 0.30 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation?
Kris dodge missiles: 119.158690176m/s to 155.780856423 m/s (Subsonic)
Chaos, Bigger Chaos!: 1.00628884824 tons (Building level) - Need Evaluation
Click to expand...
Updated
 
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