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I still don't see anything that would give a normal universe a 4D+1 rating or the multiverse a 9D+1 rating. It's just 4D+1 for everything with Urdak and Hell being above it.
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DOOM: Cosmology upgrade
- Thread starter Baldiback3162
- Start date
- Status
- 35
- 9
- Thread starter
- #82
Considering i don't argue 7-D Hell anymore, and you agree to 5-D Multiverse, 6-D Urdak & Hell and 7-D Davoth can i add you in agree?
- 22,681
- 23,222
You can add me as agreeing for the above, yeah
- 21
- 5
Agree
- 9,103
- 9,958
This is fine.
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The normal universe is 4d.
What exactly is the issue with the 9D+1?
Uncountably infinite universes is 5d.
An uncountably infinite increase in the number of universes from 5d would be 6d.
and so on.
The same way, as each possibility becomes a 4d universe,
Uncountably infinite points in a line is 5d.
The number of possibilities increases by an uncountably infinite difference in a plane, becoming 6d
and so on for each additional dimension, including time.
As each point in space is a possible state that the wavefunction can occupy, these possibilities become universes.
Makes sense so far?
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It would still be 5D. You can have an Aleph-1 number of universes, but you can't have a double Aleph-1 number of universes.
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- 35
- 9
- Thread starter
- #88
Alright dude, can i count you to agree?
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
CRTs need 2 mods to agree for it to be added right?
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2+ people with voting rights, though debatably since this is a Tier 1 upgrade you may need three staff with voting rights.
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
Alright.
- 35
- 9
- Thread starter
- #92
Hello, can you please check my scale again if it's fine or not? as i've changed alot stuff, and i only need one more admin agreeing with this scale to get accepted (since two admins already agrees with scale)
- 34,628
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7-D looks alright if Qawsed accepts it.
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
I guess this is accepted now, 3 mods. You, Qawsed and Firestorm.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
can this be applied?
- 9,103
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Yes.
- 21,636
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What makes Davoth 7-D here? Wasn't 7-D in general highly contested or is there additional context for that?
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
The multiverse being updated to 5D, making Urdak and Hell 6D, and them being extensions of Davoth made him 7D.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
the thing that was contested, was Hell itself being higher dimensional, compared to Urdak
and like mythic said, the multiverse is being updated to 5D, from being 2-A, which just means +1D
- 21,636
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Have realms being a mere extension of someone ever qualified for a higher dimensional jump? This is news to me but if it's accepted then whatever.
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
Tbh, I originally thought it was accepted via the void, but turns out it's this (I think? I'm as confused tbh.)
- 22,681
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No, not unless the being itself is transcendent compared to the realm. But according to the OP Davoth is currently considered +1D compared to the DOOM cosmology. If the transcendence is based on that, then he's just 6D rather than 7D.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
It's based on the Void, currently being accepted as +1D compared to the cosmology, and Davoth being the primordial being of the void, of which reality is an extension of him
This was accepted years ago iirc
- 9,103
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Davoth was scaled to the Void in the original Tier 1 Thread.
- Davoth was the primordial being of the Void.
- Davoth molded the Void into all his creations and structures.
- Hell is but an extension of Davoth's being.
Mythic381
He/Him- 2,433
- 1,422
Seems like it would still be applied to this.
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Is there anything else on the Void beyond those 3 statements? Cause from those statements alone it looks more like a void that was there before the DOOM universe was made.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
just check the thread where it was accepted
- 21,636
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Can you link the thread?
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DOOM - Tier 1 Cosmology Proposal
Shouldn't the Doom Slayer/Doomguy be low 1-C via this statement about Hell? I saw another thread about this where this idea was rejected, but it seems like the people on that thread really just weren't making use of the actual information very well. They simply argued as if the quote said "Hell...
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Just skimmed through the thread, even Ultima said in the thread being an extension of something doesn't mean the being transcends what the realms are an extension of. Also there's little to no explanation on the void being something transcendental to the entire cosmology here, just that nothing existed and Davoth made everything back in the day. Idk how making numerous 2-A structures there is enough for a dimensional jump. Does the Void have anything else like transcending space and time or transcending the realms it inhabits or no?
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
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Im currently checking, whether the void fits the criteria of the wiki, in it being BDE2.
But, it's not just creating numerous 2-A structures, it'd include structures like the engines of creation, with inter-dimensional structures, Hell, which is unlimited by the boundaries of dimension, Urdak, Earth's Multiverse, and a countless amount of other dimensions that we don't know of yet.
All of which, is an extension of Davoth, and is contained within the void.
also, there's this in the codex, which i do believe can support a transcendental nature.
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I don't think including these dimensions would be proof of a higher dimension, you need something like the realm transcending it all for it to qualify. Also again, it being an extension of Davoth isn't grounds for a transcendence of a dimensional tier, as Agnaa puts it: the arm is an extension of the body, but the body is not higher-dimensional compared to the arm. Plus again Ultima said that wouldn't be grounds for a higher dimensional tier. It would be solid grounds for Omnipresence, but that's it.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
The void is transcendent compared to the entire cosmology.
It's ontological properties, are superior to that of reality, Davoth created a wall, that's basically stopping existence, from being turned into non-existence
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Summary:
The Multiverse is agreed to be 5-D.
Hell drags entire universes down into Hell, with the end goal being dragging the entire Multiverse into Hell. This shows that Hell is demonstrably larger than the Multiverse and is supported by being "unlimited by the boundaries of space, time, or dimension." Tiering is TBD, but it's higher than the Multiverse
The Void is the wider realm that encompasses all the structures, so it's even higher than Hell. Portions of the Void were molded by Davoth to make Hell, Urdak, and the Multiverse.
The Multiverse is agreed to be 5-D.
Hell drags entire universes down into Hell, with the end goal being dragging the entire Multiverse into Hell. This shows that Hell is demonstrably larger than the Multiverse and is supported by being "unlimited by the boundaries of space, time, or dimension." Tiering is TBD, but it's higher than the Multiverse
The Void is the wider realm that encompasses all the structures, so it's even higher than Hell. Portions of the Void were molded by Davoth to make Hell, Urdak, and the Multiverse.
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Is there any scans that indicate the void is transcendental or is this mostly interprative?
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
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it's interpreted from the codex, and due to the nature of the Void, if you have discord i can provide the codex, and the general argument if you're interested.
Im looking for multiple opinions for this as well, before i make any major threads
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If you can upload the images into an imgur link and send it here that would be preferrable.
Also I checked the QnA section of the page in regards to this, just being "bigger than a 2-A structure" in the context of the Void holding numerous 2-A structures wouldn't qualify for a dimensional jump.
Also I checked the QnA section of the page in regards to this, just being "bigger than a 2-A structure" in the context of the Void holding numerous 2-A structures wouldn't qualify for a dimensional jump.
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This section didn't exist at the time of the thread back in 2022.
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Then in that case, the DOOM Void just got downgraded but no one did a CRT for it. So they'll just remain at 6D.
Hellscream
He/Him- 2,380
- 1,356
The brunt of the argument is reliant upon the functionality of the engines of creation (the luminarium) through which we learn the nature, and properties of the void.
Davoth is the fist being, that came forth from the void, and used it's power to mold it into what we currently know was reality / existence in the DOOM cosmology.
Either way, the luminarium is used to harness it's power in order to create gods.
This power comes from "between the dimensions" aka the void.
This is done, via inter-dimensional structures from the luminarium, spinning in and out of existence, when they breach the walls of the void, which is where we get the non-existent nature of the void from.
It's also how we know, that there's a "wall" between the void, and these realities, and is stopping reality from being turned into non-existence, as we can tell via these inter-dimensional structures becoming non-existent when they breach the walls of the void.
So Davoth molded reality from the void, and created a wall, that seperates them, if the wall is breached, and you go from the physical world into the void, you turn into non-existence due to the non-existent ontological properties of the void.
Dimensions, are reduced to non-existence.
And the engines of creation, require the power of the void, in order to create primeval gods, such as the father as opposed to the dimensions, which is another way to prove that the void is superior, compared to all of reality.
And of course the fact, that it encompassess the entire cosmology.
If you interpret this differently, feel free to give your opinion.
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