Genshin Impact Discussion Thread

[MSahla]

Heavenly Principles & Shades statement are so far only works in Teyvat anyway with all these world quests, except if they're like Surtalogi then nah

Thats just mean they're not revealed anything beyond teyvat yet lol, again just because they're not showing anything beyond teyvat yet doesn't mean its only for teyvat.

If its already stated governs universally (and This) then its governs universally, its just they're focus on teyvat for now. And also, it was never stated that their laws that they established is only for Teyvat btw.

 

[MSahla]

Lol she will probably be the next descender (trust), we need a respect thread on surtalogi cuz peeps still downplay him lol.

She wont be a descender because she's not interested to influence Teyvat's fate, she already said that one day she will leave teyvat.

Unless she wants to influence to teyvat's fate and change the world then she will become one.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

She wont be a descender because she's not interested to influence Teyvat's fate, she already said that one day she will leave teyvat.

Unless she wants to influence to teyvat's fate and change the world then she will become one.

I still do think that´s what surtalogi wants from her, atleast he wants her to become powerful enough to match him.

 

[MSahla]

I still do think that´s what surtalogi wants from her, atleast he wants her to become powerful enough to match him.

Of course he wants her to be atleast equal to him, hence why he wants skirk to travel the universe with her own and find a way to become stronger and stronger until she can equal to her master

 

[OmniScalator]

She wont be a descender because she's not interested to influence Teyvat's fate, she already said that one day she will leave teyvat.

Unless she wants to influence to teyvat's fate and change the world then she will become one.

It doesn't work like that

Being an outsider doesn't matter to be a descender, even people from teyvat can become descender, only requirement for becoming a descender is "Will rivaling entire world" that is why our sibling is not a descender no matter how much they want to change teyvat's fate, and this is the reason why nibelung was able to become descender even though he was from teyvat.

 

[MSahla]

It doesn't work like that

Being an outsider doesn't matter to be a descender, even people from teyvat can become descender, only requirement for becoming a descender is "Will rivaling entire world" that is why our sibling is not a descender no matter how much they want to change teyvat's fate, and this is the reason why nibelung was able to become descender even though he was from teyvat.

I mean she can become one anyway as surtalogi said "you are not YET worthy of that name", So she has potential.
But again Skirk already said that she doesn't have interest to influence teyvat's fate unlike the traveler, after all, she came to teyvat is just to become stronger not become world changing being.

 

[Puppet43]

Him being a descender, Rn he is weakened due to unknown God sealing his Power and yet he isn´t even that far away from Skirk in strength despite his sealed power. Narhwal and Skirk aren´t classified as descenders (whom are classified as greater than outsiders in terms of srength) so that would make prime aether> skirk.

There no need to do all of that mental gymnastics
Skirk => Traveler post Training, which is 6/7 of his power, that's it and btw Descender just applies for those can change the "Fate", Skirk wasnt called a Descender because she litterally does anything but interact with the world itself. You dont interact = You dont change the fate

 

[OmniScalator]

There no need to do all of that mental gymnastics
Skirk => Traveler post Training, which is 6/7 of his power, that's it and btw Descender just applies for those can change the "Fate", Skirk wasnt called a Descender because she litterally does anything but interact with the world itself. You dont interact = You dont change the fate

Then why is our sibling not descender even though they are changing fate of this world more than we are

They literally remade leylines of a nation.

 

[MSahla]

Then why is our sibling not descender even though they are changing fate of this world more than we are

They literally remade leylines of a nation.

Yeah with a device which is in an instant not their own sweat like the traveler lol, traveler had to face somethings that nearly killed him to change the world's fate.

 

[OmniScalator]

Yeah with a device which is in an instant not their own sweat like the traveler lol, traveler had to face somethings that nearly killed him to change the world's fate.

That device clearly is something in which their expertise was needed, as I think we have not seen any khanraeiahn technology or dragon technology which can do that

The only requirement to being a descender is "Will rivaling the world" and not whether you are trying to change the fate of this world, even existence of a descender can change the fate of the world whether they want or not.

And even though skirk is not doing much right now in teyvat, it is enough to change the fate of world to some degree if she were descender level.

Although she yet doesn't possess such will, I think she may soon possess such will and will defeat surtalogi.

 

[MSahla]

That device clearly is something in which their expertise was needed, as I think we have not seen any khanraeiahn technology or dragon technology which can do that

The only requirement to being a descender is "Will rivaling the world" and not whether you are trying to change the fate of this world, even existence of a descender can change the fate of the world whether they want or not.

And does lumine have great enough willpower to become a descender even though she already changed the fate of the world with that device? No.
Even though that device could change the world's fate doesn't mean the one who activate it have a willpower equal to a descender.

She change the fate of the world with a device that she prepared for over 500 years, she's not even trying to save anyone in every nation she just passing them by.

Like why are you not getting my point, People who try harder will be more appreciated than those who are lazy and want everything to be instant, especially Lumine who always creates chaos with her abyssal army.

The one that change the world's fate is that device not lumine herself

 

[OmniScalator]

And does lumine have great enough willpower to become a descender even though she already changed the fate of the world with that device? No.
Even though that device could change the world's fate doesn't mean the one who activate it have a willpower equal to a descender.

She change the fate of the world with a device that she prepared for over 500 years, she's not even trying to save anyone in every nation she just passing them by.

Like why are you not getting my point, People who try harder will be more appreciated than those who are lazy and want everything to be instant, especially Lumine who always creates chaos with her abyssal army.

Whether you accept it or not, that device is causally linked to abyss sibling.

 

[MSahla]

Whether you accept it or not, that device is causally linked to abyss sibling.

What linked? Lol
That device is just for collecting memories about Khaenriah and everything related to Khaenriah so she can bring Khaenriah again in the future.

 

[Voidnether]

 

[Shey]

Bait used to be believable

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

There no need to do all of that mental gymnastics
Skirk => Traveler post Training, which is 6/7 of his power, that's it and btw Descender just applies for those can change the "Fate", Skirk wasnt called a Descender because she litterally does anything but interact with the world itself. You dont interact = You dont change the fate

If that was the case why is Lumine not a descender? a descender by definition isn´t solely limited by one who can change the fate but also one who can rival the entire world, Surtalogi is also very clear that Skirk doesn´t have this Power yet as stated in star odyssey. She isn´t called a outsider simply because she didn´t want to interact with the world but because she doesn´t have the power yet to rival the world. This would make Prime Aether logically> Skirk since according to Surtalogi she isn´t yet worthy to be called descender yet. Surtalogi implies she may be a descender but not yet.

"This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world."

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

If that was the case why is Lumine not a descender? a descender by definition isn´t solely limited by one who can change the fate but also one who can rival the entire world, Surtalogi is also very clear that Skirk doesn´t have this Power yet as stated in star odyssey. She isn´t called a outsider simply because she didn´t want to interact with the world but because she doesn´t have the power yet to rival the world. This would make Prime Aether logically> Skirk since according to Surtalogi she isn´t yet worthy to be called descender yet. Surtalogi implies she may be a descender but not yet.

"This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world."

Narwhal is also not classified as Descender yet he could change the fate of fontainians. Plus where do you get that current Traveler is only 6/7 of his unsealed prime versions in term of strength?

 

[MSahla]

If that was the case why is Lumine not a descender? a descender by definition isn´t solely limited by one who can change the fate but also one who can rival the entire world, Surtalogi is also very clear that Skirk doesn´t have this Power yet as stated in star odyssey. She isn´t called a outsider simply because she didn´t want to interact with the world but because she doesn´t have the power yet to rival the world. This would make Prime Aether logically> Skirk since according to Surtalogi she isn´t yet worthy to be called descender yet. Surtalogi implies she may be a descender but not yet.

"This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world."

Rival the world in this case is more refer to the willpower even though it can also be said raw power.
For now, Skirk is implied to be superior than Neuvillette who's also stated rival and equal to the world.

Skirk also can rival the entire world with her raw power, like she can fight anyone in the world but her willpower isn't as strong as those who become a descender.

So, it terms of raw power Skirk can rival the world but willpower? No. Simply she just dont care about Teyvat.

 

[Voidnether]

It just means descenders are fodders, that's it

 

[MSahla]

It just means descenders are fodders, that's it

 

[Puppet43]

Then why is our sibling not descender even though they are changing fate of this world more than we are

They literally remade leylines of a nation.

"Lord of the night give me empty ley lines or i retired"

The only requirement to being a descender is "Will rivaling the world"

Lumine actively searchs for this = she aint a descender, Aether since anemo (He was like Razor's equal) having the will that rivals the entire world

she doesn´t have the power yet to rival the world. This would make Prime Aether logically> Skirk since according to Surtalogi she isn´t yet worthy to be called descender yet. Surtalogi implies she may be a descender but not yet.

This implies that Anemo Aether was already above Lumine with all the Abyssal power btw

Skirk is implied to be superior than Neuvillette

Skirk aint superior to Neuvi, he has direct scaling to Shades, Sinners like Surta are stated to be "able to rivalize the entire human realm" which is a Neuvi lvl statment and in Gold's case she was able to hurt in some way Naebarius to eat her
So: Sinners = Shades = Sovereings > Skirk

 

[MSahla]

Skirk aint superior to Neuvi, he has direct scaling to Shades, Sinners like Surta are stated to be "able to rivalize the entire human realm" which is a Neuvi lvl statment and in Gold's case she was able to hurt in some way Naebarius to eat her
So: Sinners = Shades = Sovereings > Skirk

Oh yea she is,
If the seven sovereigns combined then i guess they will win but in 1v1 Skirk would stomp them.

 

[Puppet43]

If the seven sovereigns combined then i guess they will win but in 1v1 Skirk would stomp them.

The whole point of Skirk story is to stop Surtalogi, which is a Sinner
Sinners are comparable to the entire human realm, like Neuvi
Are you trying to say that Skirk would win against Surtalogi?
"But the narwhal was not hungry" it doesnt mean it would be stronger, It only means that it would act more aggressively, which at most can be an argument for speed. And in fact Neuvi had to fight against a Narwhal which had a kind of hydro shield, so it was more difficult to reach its core/damage it, therefore although it was not as aggressive it was more resistant.

 

[MSahla]

The whole point of Skirk story is to stop Surtalogi, which is a Sinner
Sinners are comparable to the entire human realm, like Neuvi
Are you trying to say that Skirk would win against Surtalogi?

Just letting you know, Surtalogi>Neuvi based on his feats alone
"comparable" Doesn't mean equal entirely, thats just mean he's close to surtalogi at most no equal nor stronger.

Its like Zhongli to Raiden or Raiden to Mavuika.
each of them has its own advantages and disadvantages.

No feats or statement that can put Neuvi are even close to Surtalogi if you think about it, its just because the high tier in genshin should be at least on the same "Level"

"But the narwhal was not hungry" it doesnt mean it would be stronger, It only means that it would act more aggressively, which at most can be an argument for speed. And in fact Neuvi had to fight against a Narwhal which had a kind of hydro shield, so it was more difficult to reach its core/damage it, therefore although it was not as aggressive it was more resistant.

Oh yeah it would be stronger, Skirk already said that the whale nearly used all of its "STRENGHT" to fight against them.
If its more agressive then its more destructive, as simple as that.

 

[OmniScalator]

All of these guys fighting over sovereigns sinners and skirk while me in peace with my Ei waiting for Ei to dogwalk everyone in endgame story

 

[MSahla]

Lets say, the standard number to become the same level as Phanes is 10, then the standard number to become the same level as the Shades are 8-9.

Theres only been 2 people on the level 10, Phanes and Nibelung. Maybe Surtalogi could be in this level but we need more statement.

Theres only 3 groups on the level 8-9:
the Four Shades, Five Sinners and Seven Sovereigns.
Now you said Neuvi is at least comparable to Surtalogi because they're on this level, but that doesn't mean they're equal entirely.

With current feats that Surtalogi had, he's so close to the level of Phanes.
So 4 Shades and Sinners = Level 9
Sovereigns = Level 8
If you want to be strong enough to fight the shades you need at least be able to the level 8 or above.

The Sovereigns would be 9 of they're not lose to them or at least theres a statement that they're implied to be.
"Equal".

Like how hoyo Parallel the Sinners with the Shades and Phanes in the New Weapon Skin Lore:

• Hropratyr = Phanes
• Surtalogi = Asmoday
• Rhine = Naberius
• Vedrfolnir = Istaroth
• Rerir = Ronova

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Lets say, the standard number to become the same level as Phanes is 10, then the standard number to become the same level as the Shades are 8-9.

Theres only been 2 people on the level 10, Phanes and Nibelung. Maybe Surtalogi could be in this level but we need more statement.

Theres only 3 groups on the level 8-9:
the Four Shades, Five Sinners and Seven Sovereigns.
Now you said Neuvi is at least comparable to Surtalogi because they're on this level, but that doesn't mean they're equal entirely.

With current feats that Surtalogi had, he's so close to the level of Phanes.
So 4 Shades and Sinners = Level 9
Sovereigns = Level 8
If you want to be strong enough to fight the shades you need at least be able to the level 8 or above.

The Sovereigns would be 9 of they're not lose to them or at least theres a statement that they're implied to be.
"Equal".

Like how hoyo Parallel the Sinners with the Shades and Phanes in the New Weapon Skin Lore:

• Hropratyr = Phanes
• Surtalogi = Asmoday
• Rhine = Naberius
• Vedrfolnir = Istaroth
• Rerir = Ronova

By statements alone Surta would be level 10 or even 11

 

[OmniScalator]

By statements alone Surta would be level 10 or even 11

Meanwhile goal of surtalogi

This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world

 

[MSahla]

By statements alone Surta would be level 10 or even 11

Not really, what surtalogi did in his journey traveling the universe can be done with Phanes.
Thats why i said Surtalogi are so close to Phanes

 

[MSahla]

Meanwhile goal of surtalogi

This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world

That is not his goal

 

[OmniScalator]

That is not his goal

When others say something: wowwwww
When surtalogi says something: Nooooooo
You will be even more surprised if you hear what vedrfolnir said

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Meanwhile goal of surtalogi

Mhm? this wasn´t said by Surtalogi tho.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Not really, what surtalogi did in his journey traveling the universe can be done with Phanes.
Thats why i said Surtalogi are so close to Phanes

He represent universally as the Ultimate power instinctively by everyone who seeks strength. For a reason Surtalogi is viewed as representative of Ultimate Power instead of Phanes.


(Edit:I am not saying Surtalogi>Phanes but still)

 

[MSahla]

He represent universally as the Ultimate power instinctively by everyone who seeks strength. For a reason Surtalogi is viewed as Ultimate Power and not Phanes.

Duhhh the story is talking about Surtalogi anyway why would they suddenly talking about Phanes.

Talking about Phanes, as if Phanes' power isn't universal too.
He's just been focus on Teyvat.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

This implies that Anemo Aether was already above Lumine with all the Abyssal power btw

He wouldn´t but he has the potential to do so, even tho he is weakened and sealed. a descender can transcend all the gods even tho Traveler is weakened and sealed he isn´t even far below current archons and Skirk.

• Paimon: Did you just feel the elements of the world? Seems all you had to do was just touch the statue and you got the power of Anemo! As much as they may want it, people in this world can never get a hold of powers as easily as you.
  
  • I think I know why, it's because...
  • Paimon: Ah-ha, it's because you're not from this world to begin with
  • This can't be good.
  • Paimon: It's a bit rude to say that about the power the gods just gave you!
• Paimon: The elements in this world responded to your prayers and Paimon thinks that's a lovely sign.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Duhhh the story is talking about Surtalogi anyway why would they suddenly talking about Phanes.

Talking about Phanes, as if Phanes' power isn't universal too.
He's just been focus on Teyvat.

But Skirk was speaking generally in Context despite talking about Surtalogi, everyone that seeks strength view surtalogi as the respresentative of Power. Intrinsically for every being whom desire to be stronger, Surtalogi is the model of Strength itself.

 

[OmniScalator]

Duhhh the story is talking about Surtalogi anyway why would they suddenly talking about Phanes.

Talking about Phanes, as if Phanes' power isn't universal too.
He's just been focus on Teyvat.

Sin infests the firmament, calamity unfurls across the universe. You are free, and none now may proscribe you — yet your destiny remains bound to that of this world. Indeed, you shall send your disciple here in the near future."

"What? Me, a student? Such misfortune — for them, I mean... whenever they show up.







proof of shades universal power, by extension phanes should be universal too

 

[MSahla]

But Skirk was speaking generally in Context despite talking about Surtalogi, everyone that seeks strength view surtalogi as the respresentative of Power. Intrinsically for every being whom desire to be stronger, Surtalogi is the model of Strength itself.

Yeah because what Surtalogi wants is just strenght, strenght and strenght.

Phanes is not like him.

 

[MSahla]

Sin infests the firmament, calamity unfurls across the universe. You are free, and none now may proscribe you — yet your destiny remains bound to that of this world. Indeed, you shall send your disciple here in the near future."

"What? Me, a student? Such misfortune — for them, I mean... whenever they show up.







proof of shades universal power, by extension phanes should be universal too

What part of this proving that sinners power are universal?
The "calamity unfurls across the universe" One? Thats not referring to sinners power, vedrfolnir basically saying theres a calamity in the whole universe not that calamity created by Surtalogi whatsoever.
He said that before Surtalogi leaving teyvat anyway.

Im not trying to deny sinners power are universal or not but just not in this one.

 

[OmniScalator]

What part of this the sinners' power are universal?
The "calamity unfulrs

What part of this proving that sinners power are universal?
The "calamity unfurls across the universe" One? Thats not referring to sinners power, vedrfolnir basically saying theres a calamity in the whole universe not that calamity created by Surtalogi whatsoever.
He said that before Surtalogi leaving teyvat anyway.

Im not trying to deny sinners power are universal or not but just not in this one.

I am talking about "shades" not "sinners" check, surtalogi is still bound by fate decided by celestia no matter where he is in universe