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HSR scale stuff. (IM NEED STAFF VOTE :pray:)

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Starting of with scaling, Prime Nikador statement should be removed from scaling due to creating inconsistency when ranking the power of Chrysos Heirs towards Emanators and Pathstriders, in which they were rated 3-B as the pinnacle of tier 3 of hsr which had them above several emanators, and equal to actual powerhouses.
However this is proven false as the actual Emanator of Amphoreus is Phainon a.k.a Irontomb whom he merged with. Now their tiering shouldnt be anything less than level of TB and Dan Heng who would be rated 3-C scaling from Aventurine onwards, due to them keeping up with the two, and being made directly from nanook's blood THEMSELVES, making them powered by Destruction path as well.
So in order to rate them properly, they will have to be dropped to 3-C. (10x from baseline 3-B)
This will also affect astral express but that doesnt matter now.

The scaling for Emanators will be Baseline 3-B from this feat:
Characters directly scaling to this are obviously Lord Ravagers like Phantylia, Celenova, Zephyro, Irontomb, Archforger, Asat Pramad and Sun Devourer:
Characters that downscale are Acheron, Feixiao, JingYuan, Sunday, and The Herta, Flame Reaver and Imbibitor Lunae Dan Heng, and the rest of confirmed Emanators.

To make some consistency between the two: I need to bring up several statements abt general power relation between Emanators:
1st one is Acheron stating that to "Beat one Emanator, you would need the same power as one", implying that to beat Emanator, you would obviously need to be Emanator yourself or somehow gather the power of an Emanator to defeat one.
2nd Lygus, who met Emanator of Erudition Herta, said that he was also gazed at by Nous, becoming emanator of erudition, thus their direct clash would cause inevitable self destruction, implyng potential equality in power as Emanators.
3rd is The Herta stating that each clash between 3 Emanators or higher, can bring destruction far higher than chadwick bombs which includes destruction of 24+ planets. and the space between them.
Meaning that Emanators, while not scaling 1:1 directly to each other, have a pretty consistent statements and narrative for them to be put into same tier, and thus the well established 3-B scaling for all of them.

Next is the 1-B via Paths or specific powers:

in 3.4 and Myriad celestia trailer, it was revealed that Lord Ravager Irontomb was Emanator made capable of Killing Aeon Nous, due to that Emanators AP can reach into 1-B ranges trough "Path of (insert Path)" or if u are Acheron that would be with "Naught" or if you are Arbiter General, via Lightning Lord (Jing Yuan) or Flying Aureus (Feixiao).
Because what 3.4 has proven is Ability for Emanators to directly draw powers from their own Aeons, and thus use it in specific scenarios. Irontomb here would use power he draws directly from Nanook to kill Nous, and as such someone like Acheron would use powers from IX to amp her AP on her sword, or Generals whose Spirituses are given and blessed directly from Lan.

misc:
Lingsha having 3-C and immeasurable speed removed, NOTHING on her profile remotely explains why keeping up=scaling to them. she was fighting fodder mara struck enemies which were already beaten by pre phantylia fight Traiblazer and the cast. should be 4-C with unknown speed.
Sushang 3-C should also be removed, Yanqing was holding back mentally and physically, due to being possessed.
Boothill and Rappa scaling to emanators should be gone, the galaxy rangers assasinated zulo, not fought him. therefore the scaling makes no sense.
Black Swan despite her profile saying she is an "emanator" this is false because theres no other source that proves she is an Emanator of Remembrance. However this is just a rumour, and despite Welt stating its "true" theres nothing that backs this up.
There also isnt anything on Black Swan profile, nor about Garden of Recollection that confirms this being the case.
Scarakabaz 1-B from mandibles is unjustifiable, it is only said that he became emanator after inheriting mandibles from Tayzzyronth, but nothing else was explained as to why it would be 1-B
Late Penacony Trailblazer and Aventurine should have Summoning for their servants as they can summon Saber and Archer to help them fight. The Trailblazer will lose the ability in Mid Amphoreus key.

TL:DR, Emanator Scaling is 3-B from Phainons feat, Prime Nikador 10x scaling statement is removed due to inconsistency. Emanators get 1-B ap trough pats and equipement powered directly by Aeons, all physical stats remain tier 3.
Some characters are downgraded and thats all, enjoy!
 
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The scaling for Emanators will be Baseline 3-B from this feat:
You should get a proper calculation of this first.

Also Phainon proceeds to scratch Nanook in this same scene, so wouldn't that grant something higher? Haven't been keeping up with HSR recently so I'm probably Missing something.
 
You should get a proper calculation of this first.
Uhh rly? i tought it could be consistent as baseline 3-B since we have the welt statement abt lord ravagers being able to incinerate galaxies. accepted. (Im using CN since En original translation got changed to "star systems" which do not mean literal star systems but leaves of the imaginary).
Also Phainon proceeds to scratch Nanook in this same scene, so wouldn't that grant something higher? Haven't been keeping up with HSR recently so I'm probably Missing something.
It could be 1-B, but im kinda against it, it is a scratch plus nanook was just casually staring at him from a higher dimension, so it seems more likely that Nanook let him do it. this is why i used justification as 1-B for emanators via paths above and not phainons stuff.
 
Uhh rly? i tought it could be consistent as baseline 3-B since we have the welt statement abt lord ravagers being able to incinerate galaxies. accepted. (Im using CN since En original translation got changed to "star systems" which do not mean literal star systems but leaves of the imaginary).
I mean, yeah, that's the case for everything. Especially a visual feat like this, you should get a calc for it before posting it.

It could be 1-B, but im kinda against it, it is a scratch plus nanook was just casually staring at him from a higher dimension, so it seems more likely that Nanook let him do it. this is why i used justification as 1-B for emanators via paths above and not phainons stuff.
I mean the gap between 1-B and Tier 3 is infinite, even if just a scratch, that would still be 1-B nonetheless, unless there's something that states this isn't Nanook's true self or if Nanook can just hold back his power that much.
 
I mean, yeah, that's the case for everything. Especially a visual feat like this, you should get a calc for it before posting it.
Bummer...
I mean the gap between 1-B and Tier 3 is infinite, even if just a scratch, that would still be 1-B nonetheless, unless there's something that states this isn't Nanook's true self or if Nanook can just hold back his power that much.
Well then im not sure how consistent it is to put him at full 1-B instead of ap only, i think 1-B with AP is fine but otherwise it is too much of a jump. while yes the scratch is 1-B it is not as impressive as irontomb literally made to kill Aeon and Acheron nuking shadow of IX
 
Bummer...

Well then im not sure how consistent it is to put him at full 1-B instead of ap only, i think 1-B with AP is fine but otherwise it is too much of a jump. while yes the scratch is 1-B it is not as impressive as irontomb literally made to kill Aeon and Acheron nuking shadow of IX
I mean whats the consistency issue with him being full 1-b.
 
I mean whats the consistency issue with him being full 1-b.
it would make cornerstone users 1-B which will in turn make welt 1-B which would in turn cause problems since for hi3 only god tiers like otto kevin and main trio (elysa too) are scalable to 1-B, the rest are not. plus star of eden ap is hard capped at high 1-C so it would make no sense that hsr welt is somehow entire dimension stronger than welt in his prime. it would also make majority of the verse 1-B which is just no. 3-C cornerstone members and those comparable? sure otherwise 1-B is just problematic
 
it would make cornerstone users 1-B which will in turn make welt 1-B which would in turn cause problems since for hi3 only god tiers like otto kevin and main trio (elysa too) are scalable to 1-B, the rest are not. plus star of eden ap is hard capped at high 1-C so it would make no sense that hsr welt is somehow entire dimension stronger than welt in his prime. it would also make majority of the verse 1-B which is just no. 3-C cornerstone members and those comparable? sure otherwise 1-B is just problematic
Just saying that stupid blue bug is still 1-B due to an aeon body part. Meanwhile Cornerstone users:
 
it would make cornerstone users 1-B which will in turn make welt 1-B which would in turn cause problems since for hi3 only god tiers like otto kevin and main trio (elysa too) are scalable to 1-B, the rest are not. plus star of eden ap is hard capped at high 1-C so it would make no sense that hsr welt is somehow entire dimension stronger than welt in his prime. it would also make majority of the verse 1-B which is just no. 3-C cornerstone members and those comparable? sure otherwise 1-B is just problematic
I mean, wouldn't 1-B scale to only Phainon's giant fire form, because the animation makes it kinda clear that this is Phainon at his strongest.
 
I mean, wouldn't 1-B scale to only Phainon's giant fire form, because the animation makes it kinda clear that this is Phainon at his strongest.
even if it did, it veery short lived form he practically died after that. but dw his AP scales to 1-B with both scratching nanook and being merged with irontomb (i have his sandbox profile prepared)
 
even if it did, it veery short lived form he practically died after that. but dw his AP scales to 1-B with both scratching nanook and being merged with irontomb (i have his sandbox profile prepared)
I mean, it still exists nonetheless. Maybe like "1-B at his peak" and adding a note regarding the form could work.
 
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If what Phainon does needs to be calculated, it's not going to be 3-B given it wasn't calculated through him destroying galaxies but rather through his large size (I don't know what method should I use than this, because obviously atomization and subatomic destruction can't be used and like the result is too underwhelmingly low, if like you used the melting point for the incineration part then again 95% of galaxy's matter can't be calculated due to it being dark matter anyway).

I haven't calculated him through large size calculations yet, but I'm sure this warrants like 3-A or higher into 3-A. There's no way this is 3-B, I mean just look at the page
Phainon's going to inflate it (If you don't know it yet why it's going to be inflated, it's the sprinting speed part of Phainon) but again I haven't calculated it so
 
If what Phainon does needs to be calculated, it's not going to be 3-B given it wasn't calculated through him destroying galaxies but rather through his large size (I don't know what method should I use than this, because obviously atomization and subatomic destruction can't be used and like the result is too underwhelmingly low, if like you used the melting point for the incineration part then again 95% of galaxy's matter can't be calculated due to it being dark matter anyway).

I haven't calculated him through large size calculations yet, but I'm sure this warrants like 3-A or higher into 3-A. There's no way this is 3-B, I mean just look at the page
Phainon's going to inflate it (If you don't know it yet why it's going to be inflated, it's the sprinting speed part of Phainon) but again I haven't calculated it so
3-a yaqning
 
This is firee, I don't only agree I FULLY agree 🔥🔥

I could agree with straight up 1-B because emanators are clearly above the others and they hurt each other (Teng Xiao killing an emanator with Lightning Lord, Zephyro easily defeating Phainon at first, Acheron one-shotting Aventurine by stop holding back, etc) but an "3-B, 1-B with paths" it's also good btw, or at least straight up 1-B for characters that doesn't hold back like Zephyro.

Also where Jingliu and Imbibitor Lunae would scale? I remember well that Jingliu and Dan Feng (Who is above Dan Heng) had an fight against the Emanator of Abundance and they easily got defeated if I'm not wrong, Jingliu also got an fight with Jing Yuan and once he got Lightning Lord she got one-shotted, so I don't think they would scale to 1-B as well.
 
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This is firee, I don't only agree I FULLY agree 🔥🔥

I could agree with straight up 1-B because emanators are clearly above the others and they hurt each other (Teng Xiao killing an emanator with Lightning Lord, Zephyro easily defeating Phainon at first, Acheron one-shotting Aventurine by stop holding back, etc) but an "3-B, 1-B with paths" it's also good btw, or at least straight up 1-B for characters that doesn't hold back like Zephyro.
One day bro...
Also where Jingliu and Imbibitor Lunae would scale? I remember well that Jingliu and Dan Feng (Who is above Dan Heng) had an fight against the Emanator of Abundance and they easily got defeated if I'm not wrong, Jingliu also got an fight with Jing Yuan and once he got Lightning Lord she got one-shotted, so I don't think they would scale to 1-B as well.
They wont be 1-B, they will be in the 3-C ranges for now (DHIL will probably remain 3-B)
 
We getting Yanqing Vs Yhwach with this one
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Ngl it quite amusing seeing welt with his high 1-C cane struggling to fight 3-B phantylia (10% or fragment of a High 1-C weapon is still High 1-C nevertheless) and still doesn’t give emanator 1-B
 
Unknown with the Star of Eden (His cane is the Star of Eden, but the original was destroyed long ago and he only used fake ones to fight since. As such, this replica is of unknown strength)
I'm pretty sure that is the original Star of Eden, nothing confirms that it isn't since the Star of Eden was repaired by Einstein and Tesla into a cannon-like device and was used by Bronya against the Herrscher of the Void, also Bronya tried using replicas of the Star of Eden against Rita before using the real one which destroyed the Teather of Domination, this later was reconfirmed by Rita that was surprised that Bronya used the 9th Divine Key itself instead of simulated ones and even the Star of Eden Singularity Rebuild that Welt Yang used to defeat Murata Ryusuke happened in 2005, which is five years after Second Eruption since the event happened in the year 2000. Also the Character Story from Welt mentions that his cane was transformed from the Star of Eden, I don't see any mention of it being an replica so I think that is the Star of Eden and not an replica.
 
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I'm pretty sure that is the original Star of Eden, nothing confirms that it isn't since the Star of Eden was repaired by Einstein and Tesla into a cannon-like device and was used by Bronya against the Herrscher of the Void, also Bronya tried using replicas of the Star of Eden against Rita before using the real one which destroyed the Teather of Domination, this later was reconfirmed by Rita that was surprised that Bronya used the 9th Divine Key itself instead of simulated ones and even the Star of Eden Singularity Rebuild that Welt Yang used to defeat Murata Ryusuke happened in 2005, which is five years after Second Eruption since the event happened in the year 2000. Also the Character Story from Welt mentions that his cane was transformed from the Star of Eden, I don't see any mention of it being an replica so I think that is the Star of Eden and not an replica.
The High 1-C hsr was rejected and explained why it doesnt work here. even then welt has showcased 0 usage of star of eden 0th power, didnt use any of the notable attacks like singularity rebuild nor the ability to affect higher dimensions with his core, so yea given hes weaker than his hi3 self and thata he has no showcased power. i think unkown for SoE in hsr is the best option
 
The High 1-C hsr was rejected and explained why it doesnt work here. even then welt has showcased 0 usage of star of eden 0th power, didnt use any of the notable attacks like singularity rebuild nor the ability to affect higher dimensions with his core, so yea given hes weaker than his hi3 self and thata he has no showcased power. i think unkown for SoE in hsr is the best option
Doesn't even in low level the Star of Eden haves eleven dimensional supergravity? Welt can use the black holes so he can clearly use the power of the 9th Divine Key, even an pseudo black hole from Bronya can destroy the teather and even if Welt used then in gameplay and not in an cutscene, I think that proves that he can easily use the power of Star of Eden if he wants. The cane can't be unknown level because it's the same Star of Eden that Welt to do all his feats, just cause he doesn't use these attacks in HSR doesn't mean it's weaker and he almost used it against Aventurine, the cane should have the same output because is the same key even if not everyone scales to it.

If Aventurine alone with the 1/10 power of the Emanator of Preservation could force Welt to use the true power of his cane, then characters like Phantylia or Emanators that are very above Pathsiders should scale above him, because I don't see any statement that says the opposite, this is supported by the fact that Phainon did an small injury against Nanook or the memokeeper statement (through that is an bit controversial, it also proves the obviously superiority of Emanators against the divine keys like Star of Eden), isn't like Welt is that powerful because he struggled against Sirin with only one core so Emanators being much beyond his power would make sense.
 
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Doesn't even in low level the Star of Eden haves eleven dimensional supergravity? Welt can use the black holes so he can clearly use the power of the 9th Divine Key, even an pseudo black hole from Bronya can destroy the teather and even if Welt used then in gameplay and not in an cutscene, I think that proves that he can easily use the power of Star of Eden if he wants. The cane can't be unknown level because it's the same Star of Eden that Welt to do all his feats, just cause he doesn't use these attacks in HSR doesn't mean it's weaker and he almost used it against Aventurine, the cane should have the same output because is the same key even if not everyone scales to it.
theres 2 issues i have here, first is that bronya thingy is actually the zeroth power she used (Hence level 0 output: pseudo black hole), those blackholes unlike regular one that killed Doomsday beast, the general issue is... 0th power SoE can affect and destroy higher dimensions, the SoE in hsr was not confirmed to do that. given it is unknown wether it has its powers from his heyday or not
If Aventurine alone with the 1/10 power of the Emanator of Preservation could force Welt to use the true power of his cane, then characters like Phantylia or Emanators that are very above Pathsiders should scale above him, because I don't see any statement that says the opposite, this is supported by the fact that Phainon did an small injury against Nanook or the memokeeper statement (through that is an bit controversial, it also proves the obviously superiority of Emanators against the divine keys like Star of Eden), isn't like Welt is that powerful because he struggled against Sirin with only one core so Emanators being much beyond his power would make sense.
Forcing=/=Scaling to it in this case, Aventurine was raining down coins at the entire dreamscape and welt was using it not just to defeat him but protect the express, it is also unknown if Aventurine would survive the impact of the blackhole or die.

I get the idea, but i dont see the scaling here. id like staff input for this crt tho
 
theres 2 issues i have here, first is that bronya thingy is actually the zeroth power she used (Hence level 0 output: pseudo black hole), those blackholes unlike regular one that killed Doomsday beast, the general issue is... 0th power SoE can affect and destroy higher dimensions, the SoE in hsr was not confirmed to do that. given it is unknown wether it has its powers from his heyday or not
March doesn't know the true extent of Welt power and the cane actually brighted when he killed the Doomsday Beast. Also isn't Welt's ultimate the same as the Pseudo Black Hole? It being called different is just an mistranslation since they all have the same kanji as being an "Pseudo Black-Hole", they're the same ability and the Black Hole that Welt uses as his ultimate is exactly as the one that he used against Sirin, because it's the same; same color, same effects, same name, etc. It's mentioned that is unknown if Welt has all his original power, but he does have the Star of Eden and could use the full of his potential if he wants.
Forcing=/=Scaling to it in this case, Aventurine was raining down coins at the entire dreamscape and welt was using it not just to defeat him but protect the express, it is also unknown if Aventurine would survive the impact of the blackhole or die.
It's true that we don't know what would have happened in the fight because Acheron directly one-shotted Aventurine, but she instantly stepped to stop him and she could have done it because the Astral Express wasn't powerful enough to take Aventurine down. Both Himeko and Welt resorted to their ultimate attacks to fight against Aventurine, even if the fight wasn't shown it's implied that they would need work together to fight against Aventurine instead of Welt one-shotting him.
 
It's mentioned that is unknown if Welt has all his original power, but he does have the Star of Eden and could use the full of his potential if he wants.
Its unknown because what SoE does in hi3 and what SoE does in hsr is a complete different stuff, its far less potent and the furthest thing you can put it is vague comparasion of acherons sword and his cane, again the story takes place 6-8 years after events of kiana becoming cocoon and absorbing honkai on the moon so im not sure if he even has any notable percentage of power at all
 
Its unknown because what SoE does in hi3 and what SoE does in hsr is a complete different stuff, its far less potent and the furthest thing you can put it is vague comparasion of acherons sword and his cane, again the story takes place 6-8 years after events of kiana becoming cocoon and absorbing honkai on the moon so im not sure if he even has any notable percentage of power at all
But it's the same divine key and can do the same type of attacks, I don't see how it's different only because Welt doesn't always use it. Kiana absorbed the honkai energy from the Solar System into the Moon, but not all the honkai from the parallel worlds follows the same rule and Welt is not in his world anymore, so Kiana sealing the Honkai from her world into the moon would not affect the divine key at all, when the Star of Eden could easily perform the Pseudo Black Holes that did before.

As I mentioned before there also the statement of memokeeper saying that Kiana will alone is equal to the waves of an emanator, this is an very explicit statement, Welt had hard time fighting an Sirin that only had one core and was completely outclassed when she had only five cores and we know that an Herrscher of the Void had higher honkai energy than Sirin at her peak, so the difference of power between them is very huge.
 
But it's the same divine key and can do the same type of attacks, I don't see how it's different only because Welt doesn't always use it. Kiana absorbed the honkai energy from the Solar System into the Moon, but not all the honkai from the parallel worlds follows the same rule and Welt is not in his world anymore, so Kiana sealing the Honkai from her world into the moon would not affect the divine key at all, when the Star of Eden could easily perform the Pseudo Black Holes that did before.

As I mentioned before there also the statement of memokeeper saying that Kiana will alone is equal to the waves of an emanator, this is an very explicit statement, Welt had hard time fighting an Sirin that only had one core and was completely outclassed when she had only five cores and we know that an Herrscher of the Void had higher honkai energy than Sirin at her peak, so the difference of power between them is very huge.
dont know what kiana has to do here, but ig ill be neutral abt this now. it could be useful if we had any statement abt how much does welt contain power from honkai or soe to use it, that could be good for the high 1-C rating
 
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