AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,854
- 1,143
same
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Berserk: Speed Upgrades
- Thread starter ElJoaki5
- Start date
- Status
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,854
- 1,143
Do you have the scan on hand?
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AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,854
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Maybe this can apply to any weapon?
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Thats another CRT
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Yeah, no. This is completely related to this CRT, the only counterargument is that "it's a common cannon", a CRT is not needed to show that the cannon is not common.
Yes, this isn't something special to Dragon Slayer, it's for anything that "continuously killed various beings from the astral world."
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Hm...true
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,854
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In that case, it means the cannon simply got enchanted. Nice.
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Yeah no, the canon is not enchanted. While it is true the only reason the dragon slayer is enchanted is because its been used to kill so many astral beings and the canon has kinda done the same the canon has not been enchanted. It is somewhat implied it's because the sword has simply killed way more. When Guts confronts Slan, his canon can only damages the physical body made from troll entrails and she's otherwise unaffected, meanwhile the dargonslayer basically banishes her. In reference to the cannon she says "its not enough" but with the dragon slayer "it can be done".
From chapter 220 and 221
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Even in your own example it shows Slan isn't killed by the Dragon Slayer.Yeah no, the canon is not enchanted. While it is true the only reason the dragon slayer is enchanted is because its been used to kill so many astral beings and the canon has kinda done the same the canon has not been enchanted. It is somewhat implied it's because the sword has simply killed way more. When Guts confronts Slan, his canon can only damages the physical body made from troll entrails and she's otherwise unaffected, meanwhile the dargonslayer basically banishes her. In reference to the cannon she says "its not enough" but with the dragon slayer "it can be done".
From chapter 220 and 221
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Hence why I didn’t claim she was and I described it as “temporarily banished”, like what’s even the argument here?
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Based on... what? That just seems like speculation.
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Ignore the other discussions. Just focus on the main point.
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Berserk: Guts avoids electrocution recalc
vsbattles.fandom.com
It also caught my attention that we have not just one, but two currently accepted calc.
The one I linked above is a recalc of the same calculation.
Berserk : Guts prevents lightning strikes
vsbattles.fandom.com
We might as well address the two versions of the same feat while we are at it.
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Old one used less movement and the outdated weight of the Dragon Slayer. New One is more precise with the movements made and uses the newer+aceepted Dragon Slayer weight.Berserk: Guts avoids electrocution recalc
It also caught my attention that we have not just one, but two currently accepted calc.
The one I linked above is a recalc of the same calculation.
Berserk : Guts prevents lightning strikes
We might as well address the two versions of the same feat while we are at it.
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- Thread starter
- #97
@LegendariumOfLies Thanks for debating for me 
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Why wasn't there an LS part to new calc?@LegendariumOfLies Thanks for debating for me
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- Thread starter
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I dont see this as a feat where ls is applicable
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He's lift a 400-500 kg sword at MHS+ Speeds. I think we can justify that as LS.
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Its is beyond Gojover
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KE has always been wierd. Its fine when its Tier 9 or below, but any higher, then its an issue
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Yeah, only DC and Marvel characters can use this XD
Although I also found Shinra included in this.
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BUMP
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Hi, I skimmed through the thread and wanted to ask for clarification on the opposing arguments. I don't agree with using the cannonball as a limit when it was not given an explicit speed. And it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that you disagree with Guts being significantly faster than the cannon. According to VSBW IRL cannonballs are accepted as moving at Mach 1.1 up to 1.51 {381 to 518 m/s}. If you look at the verse page half of speed feats are far past Supersonic which is how fast IRL cannonballs are roughly. The lowest accepted feat Hypersonic and above is this elf feat which is Mach 5.83 [2000 m/s]. Guts is already accepted as 3.86x to 5x off that feat alone. Guts' current MHS feat makes him 389.7 to 286.6 above IRL cannonballs already. So why is there such a focus on the cannonball. No matter what, Guts is already waaay faster than IRL cannonballs.
TLDR: If the argument is that the upgrade doesn't make sense because of the cannon, (1) we aren't given a speed of the cannon in the first place, and (2) Guts already is hundreds of times faster than IRL cannons according to the page. The burden of proof is on you to prove it should be a limit given several calcs ranging from several times faster up to hundreds of times faster than IRL cannons are already on the page.
Leaning agree right now. Anyways, I'm going back to hibernation.
TLDR: If the argument is that the upgrade doesn't make sense because of the cannon, (1) we aren't given a speed of the cannon in the first place, and (2) Guts already is hundreds of times faster than IRL cannons according to the page. The burden of proof is on you to prove it should be a limit given several calcs ranging from several times faster up to hundreds of times faster than IRL cannons are already on the page.
Leaning agree right now. Anyways, I'm going back to hibernation.
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I have no inherent problem with Guys being faster than his own cannon. I only disagree when he’s calced to several hundred or even a thousand times faster than it. This is Because Guts is depicted almost getting hit and even struggling against creatures that aren’t fast enough to avoid shots from his cannon, meaning the difference in speed between these things are not orders of magnitude apart.
The argument that just because his cannonball doesn’t have an explicitly stated speed it can be any speed isn’t that convincing to me since it is a regular cannon that uses normal gunpowder and cannonballs just fitted into his prosthetic arm. And the same creatures Guts almost gets hit by were calced at subsonic in this thread and were shown to be unable to dodge shots from a regular cannons when they were closer to the ship later in that arc.
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Bump.
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You're making such a big deal about this when there are so many examples in fiction where MHS/Rel/FTL characters use firearms in combat and successfully hit their opponents, who are not lagging behind them in speed.
This is a common mistake, so I don't see the point in making a big deal about it.
I agree with the update
This is a common mistake, so I don't see the point in making a big deal about it.
I agree with the update
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No one answered me about this, Guts was marked 3 other times, dodged once (where results are not Mhs+, but around Mach 100) and reacted to this one, which for some reason is Mhs+.
Daiba stated that there was no way they could be faster than lightning (he didn't mention reacting to it, but rather being faster).
And currently the speed difference between Guts and Serpico is about 6×, previously Guts was saved by him.
I just have the idea that Mhs+ is an Outlier.
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MHS calculation fully supports MHS+ calculation.
What difference does it make what this old man says? Some characters say that Dragon Slayer is impossible to lift, but Guts swings it with one hand.
He just became faster than lightning due to his stubbornness and overcoming.
Likewise, he couldn't react to Rosina for a while and she was faster than him, but at the right moment he dodged her point-blank attack and surpassed her in speed several times
What difference does it make what this old man says? Some characters say that Dragon Slayer is impossible to lift, but Guts swings it with one hand.
He just became faster than lightning due to his stubbornness and overcoming.
Likewise, he couldn't react to Rosina for a while and she was faster than him, but at the right moment he dodged her point-blank attack and surpassed her in speed several times
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Oh yes, but here he needed help to beat Ganishka, it's a totally different situation.
Notably the 6× difference in relation to other feats still has weight here, Daiba who marked Guts did not dodge, when Guts had the opportunity to dispel greater damage he simply did not do so.
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Serpico could have easily been at Mach 1.5k at that point.
The calculation is based on the assumption that Serpico started moving on one frame and finished on the second. In reality, he could have started moving in the gap between them. This would have been clearer in the animation.
But with the Mach 270 calculation, the Mach 1600 result doesn't seem that inflated.
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No he dodged multiple times and was hit once. Also, using an old+outffsite calc while we have an on-site calc which proves Serpico moves far faster.
And he was proven wrong 3 times. He also Ganishka couldn't be harmed and that turned out to be untrue. You are appealing to an authority that is unreliable.
Leaving out the context, Serpico was in front of Guts. Guts didn't need a reason to move in the moment, he later is shown dodging lightning quite easily
Then counterpoint, in the final arc of Demon Slayer, Kokushibo is unable to dodge shotgun pellets. Does that mean the entire verse should be downgraded?
He was trying to hit Ganishka, why would he jump off Zodd?
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Are we also ignoring the part were Zodd dodged lightning point-blank or is this an outlier to?
How many outliers make a consistency?
How many outliers make a consistency?
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The calculation is around Mach 100, Guts and Serpico barely moved here, there is no basis for everyone being faster than lightning.
All feats are shown as barely reacting to lightning, that's the problem.
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This is a strawman. No one made this argument.
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