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DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

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Let's see...

First the Titans emerge from the Dark Fountains, the Fountains acting as eggs where the Titans hatch. At the end, when we defeat a Titan, the Fountain disappears.
Ralsei says "Kris, you can seal Fountains can't you? Maybe... if the Titan... is anything like a Fountain..." and from what we see at the end where Kris manages to seal one confirms that the Titans are equal to the Fountains to some extent.

Now about the real Tier of the Dark Fountains, here there are two options:

Option 1: The stars are real, as you know in the different Dark Worlds there are stars in the skies, seen in Castle Town, probably Cyber City, TV World and the Three Sanctuaries. Most of the arguments against this can be explained by the game's artistic choices, such as the fact that the stars are cut off in this part of the TV World because Toby wanted the background to be black for the following scenes. People argue that in the third sanctuary the stars in the background are just more floating parts of the prophecy, without taking into account the fact that several of the background dots are white and no prophecy crystal has been white, the other blue dots can be explained as an artistic choice as well.

Extra fact: In one of the save points of chapter 1, it is mentioned that the geyser of Ralsei's castle pierces endlessly into the sky, this argument is not that strong, but it is something interesting to emphasize.

In summary: The dark worlds would be 4-A, and since the Titans seem to take form from a fountain, then they would be equally powerful.
Unless the Titans only take half the power from a Fountain or the Titan from chapter 4 is not comparable to the Roaring Titans, but we don't know that.

Option 2: The stars are not real, this option may be very likely but even so the Titans would not be only 7-B, as you know, the size of the creation feat was based on the Queen's City from Chapter 2, which is a normal city, meaning City level size. But in chapter 4 it has been shown that the size of the Dark World obviously depends on the place where you create them. In a normal room, you can say that the Tier of a Dark is City level, but in chapter 4 the Dark World takes place in a Church, being the largest place so far, having an entrance, main area, two extra rooms with a closet in one

In summary: Here it can be argued that the Tier that is the Dark World of the Church would be the Tier that the Titans have, it can also be said that the creation feat has almost infinite potential, but I don't know.
 
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you can probably also add how the start of Chapter 2 has a sunset over the horizon implying a sun exists. and how Chapter 3 has alot of dialogue with Darkeners talking about stars and such, which would imply they are a thing that exist in Dark Worlds
 
you can probably also add how the start of Chapter 2 has a sunset over the horizon implying a sun exists. and how Chapter 3 has alot of dialogue with Darkeners talking about stars and such, which would imply they are a thing that exist in Dark Worlds
Chapter 2 does not have a sunset and Chapter 3 darkners never talk about stars as in the objects in space.

Plus darkners talk about things in the light world too.
 
Option 1: The stars are real, as you know in the different Dark Worlds there are stars in the skies, seen in Castle Town, probably Cyber City, TV World and the Three Sanctuaries. Most of the arguments against this can be explained by the game's artistic choices, such as the fact that the stars are cut off in this part of the TV World because Toby wanted the background to be black for the following scenes. People argue that in the third sanctuary the stars in the background are just more floating parts of the prophecy, without taking into account the fact that several of the background dots are white and no prophecy crystal has been white, the other blue dots can be explained as an artistic choice as well.

Extra fact: In one of the save points of chapter 1, it is mentioned that the geyser of Ralsei's castle pierces endlessly into the sky, this argument is not that strong, but it is something interesting to emphasize.

In summary: The dark worlds would be 4-A, and since the Titans seem to take form from a fountain, then they would be equally powerful.
Unless the Titans only take half the power from a Fountain or the Titan from chapter 4 is not comparable to the Roaring Titans, but we don't know that.
This kinda... doesn't really make sense given the way how dark worlds have been shown to work so far. We'e explored the entire Chapter 1 dark world, the door at the left is the great door, the closet at the right is card castle. In Chapter 2, the floor is Cyber Field, the closet on the right is Queen's mansion. Et cetera. So where exactly do all these stars and planets come from?

Queen talks about her dark world like if it was some small place, though I don't think this is necessarily evidence given the context.

As for the Cyber City stars, your first scan straight up shows them moving faster than buildings in the backround, which should imply they're closer than said buildings due to how parallax works.
 
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In summary: The dark worlds would be 4-A, and since the Titans seem to take form from a fountain, then they would be equally powerful.
Unless the Titans only take half the power from a Fountain or the Titan from chapter 4 is not comparable to the Roaring Titans, but we don't know that.
Ralsei says that Titans emerge when a Fountain’s power becomes too strong, so I feel that would suggest the Titans scale to the Fountains. The Titan’s insides also looked just like how a Fountain does in the scenes where they’re sealed, which might be something but idk.

As an aside, is there anything that indicates the Fountain still exists after the Titan emerges from it? The Fountain’s no longer there when the Titan is defeated, but is that because they were linked in some way or because it was already destroyed by the Titan emerging from it?
 
This kinda... doesn't really make sense given the way how dark worlds have been shown to work so far. We'e explored the entire Chapter 1 dark world, the door at the left is the great door, the closet at the right is card castle. In Chapter 2, the floor is Cyber Field, the closet on the right is Queen's mansion. Et cetera. So where exactly do all these stars and planets come from?
Undertale and Deltarune aren't the kind of game to display cosmic stuff accurately, as Everdraed, the guy tasked to work on Photoshop Flowey, needed to scale down the true size of Photoshop Flowey in order for it to work in the game.

So I do not think that attributing it to the graphics of the game is a good argument tbf.
 
The Fountain still did exist even after that it emerged, ye. I think it was made clear when they jumped back on it after the Spawns.
I’m not sure if the Fountain still existed after the Titan fully hatched, though. We know it was still hatching after the first climbing segment since we see the wings emerging at the end and Ralsei says it’s only “hatching” fast instead of “hatched”. I don’t there’s anything proving if it had fully hatched by the time they climb back on to the tower or not, but tbh I’m leaning towards it not. We never see the Fountain again after the second climbing segment, yet it’s gone after the Titan is banished with said Titan’s insides also looking just like the Fountain.

Right now it seems to me like the Titan either drained the power of the Fountain as part of its hatching process, or it literally is the Fountain just morphed into a different form.
 
I’m not sure if the Fountain still existed after the Titan fully hatched, though. We know it was still hatching after the first climbing segment since we see the wings emerging at the end and Ralsei says it’s only “hatching” fast instead of “hatched”. I don’t there’s anything proving if it had fully hatched by the time they climb back on to the tower or not, but tbh I’m leaning towards it not. We never see the Fountain again after the second climbing segment, yet it’s gone after the Titan is banished with said Titan’s insides also looking just like the Fountain.

Right now it seems to me like the Titan either drained the power of the Fountain as part of its hatching process, or it literally is the Fountain just morphed into a different form.
I mean, no matter where you look at it, it still proves that Titan = Mountain so...
 
I mean, no matter where you look at it, it still proves that Titan = Mountain so...
I’ve just realised I forgot to say what my actual point was LMAO, yeah basically I was saying exactly this. It’s either literally a Fountain or has all its power.
 
Huh, did not consider someone making a profile for tiny Kris. Would that be like a different key?
 
Is anyone working on a scaling to Dark Fountains thread or anything like that, or does there still need to be more discussion here first?
 
Any idea as to how we are scaling the Knight? The possibility that Kris was the one that slashed Susie and Ralsei might change their ratings
 
I suppose it changes Kris stats as well since there exists the possiblity they can one shot both Ralsei and Susie
 
Not enough to discard the theory, not to mention that Tenna calls Kris the Roaring Knight too.
 
Kris slash is just head-canon right now, we shouldn't use it unless it's confirmed.
Yet the situation is vague enough to not be entirely sure it was the Knight who one-shotted Susie and Ralsei either.

The profiles have to be revamped each time a new chapter drops anyway, we will be speculating until the game is finished.
Tenna never called Kris Roaring Knight, he's talking about the real Knight in that scene
He did, Kris was the one that plugged Tenna between chapter 1 and 2 and then turned Tenna on before creating the Dark World. Who else could he be talking about? Are we supposed to infer the Roaring Knight sneaked inside the house before Susie and Kris woke up and gave Tenna new instructions without just kidnapping Toriel?

Not to mention it has become extremely apparent that Kris is at the very least cooperating in some way with the Knight
 
Yet the situation is vague enough to not be entirely sure it was the Knight who one-shotted Susie and Ralsei either.
It seems pretty obvious.

It would also be really out of character for Kris to attack their friends directly like that, given they've opted to just do nothing in previous encounters with the Knight plus seems genuinely attached to them.
 
It seems pretty obvious.

It would also be really out of character for Kris to attack their friends directly like that, given they've opted to just do nothing in previous encounters with the Knight plus seems genuinely attached to them.
We don't know if it would be out of character or not.

Whatever deal or allegiance they have been forced/willingly participating in Kris can even tolerate the weird route for the sake of it, which is far worse than having to knock out their friends briefly.
 
We don't know if it would be out of character or not.

Whatever deal or allegiance they have been forced/willingly participating in Kris can even put up with the weird route for the sake of it, which is far worse than having to knock out their friends briefly.
It also doesn't really make sense for Kris to be that much faster.

Also, I don't know if "put up with it" is the right word.

They go out of their way to undo all the negative stuff we did, as well as beat the shit out of us for it.
 
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