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Dragon Ball Calc Addition

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LaserPrecision said:
Don't disagree with the calc (or this being added to the profile), but shouldn't this CRT also address the consistency and the many many anti-feats sprinkled throughout Dragon Ball? Because I assume that's a major reason for Goku having unknown LS for such a long time. But if it doesn't get addressed here, someone will inevitably make a downgrade CRT. So it's better to nip it in the bud before it becomes a problem. It should also mention (Although it's obvious) what key this scales to. In this case Namek Saga Goku.
Click to expand...
>Dragon Ball: Goku trains by walking around with 200+ pound weights while everyone else can barely lift a fraction of it.
>Dragon Ball Z: Goku is forced to be able to work under 6 Tons in the gravity room on his way to Namek.
>Dragon Ball Z: Vegeta asks Bulma's father to make a room that will make him 18 tons which is a shock to Dr Brief since Goku was barely doing 6 tons and Vegeta was doing 3 times that amount.
>Dragon Ball Z: Vegeta says that 9 tons is too much for Base Trunks..
>Dragon Ball Z: Goku Fails to Lift 40 tons in base and needs a transformation to do it, saying that 10 tons on each limb is heavy.
>Dragon Ball Super: Vegeta warms up with 9 tons.
>Dragon Ball Super: Vegeta can't lift a man who weighs 1000 tons in his super saiyan state.

Not going to comment on the Super ones because I haven't really watched or read Super, but are all these even from the Manga?
Regardless, I think we can file all of these under PIS because it is very clear from multiple feats that characters are far above these. Hell, General Blue - a normal ass human - did this.
Also if we go by Anti-Feats, DC Fans better be ready for their cosmology tapping out at 9-A and Marvel Bros only get 9-C. and Class 1 because Hulk - Mr. "Strongest There Is" - loses to a Python and a Gorilla.
 
There may be a way we can accomodate both by pointing out that the characters can't actually lift a whole lot of weight, but they are great at crushing things.
 
LegendariumOfLies said:
Not going to comment on the Super ones because I haven't really watched or read Super, but are all these even from the Manga?
Click to expand...
The Magetta instance (1,000 tons) can be explained by Magetta applying pressure. He's standing on a surface while Vegeta is trying to lift him. And we know from the series that Ki enhances the body itself, meaning a guy who naturally weighs >1,000 tons and uses Ki is going to naturally be way more difficult to lift for a guy that weighs like 60 kg and uses Ki. Even if they're using equal amounts of it.

I'm not sure about the 9 tons warmup but that's directly contradicted in the Super anime by Goku's own warmup at the very start (even before becoming an SSG) being >55,500 tons. And if I'm correct the scene being referred to is just a generic "Vegeta training" scene.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
The Magetta instance (1,000 tons) can be explained by Magetta applying pressure. He's standing on a surface while Vegeta is trying to lift him. And we know from the series that Ki enhances the body itself, meaning a guy who naturally weighs >1,000 tons and uses Ki is going to naturally be way more difficult to lift for a guy that weighs like 60 kg and uses Ki. Even if they're using equal amounts of it.
Click to expand...
I agree DBS character's should scale beyond 1,000 tons LS-wise, I don't think dismissing the anti-feat as "applying pressure" is the right approach (As someone who used to use that argument). Beerus wouldn't have mentioned the 1,000 tons in the first place if he didn't think that was too much for Vegeta to lift. Yet he said Vegeta was crazy for even attempting it due to its mass. Applying pressure probably contributed to the difficulty, but it likely wasn't the main factor if it wasn't even worthy of mention by Beerus.

That said, I do think it's an outlier anti-feat given all the other feats in Super that fall into Class M-G range.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I agree DBS character's should scale beyond 1,000 tons LS-wise, I don't think dismissing the anti-feat as "applying pressure" is the right approach (As someone who used to use that argument). Beerus wouldn't have mentioned the 1,000 tons in the first place if he didn't think that was too much for Vegeta to lift. Yet he said Vegeta was crazy for even attempting it due to its mass. Applying pressure probably contributed to the difficulty, but it likely wasn't the main factor if it wasn't even worthy of mention by Beerus.

That said, I do think it's an outlier anti-feat given all the other feats in Super that fall into Class M-G range.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
 
I mean, I really do not think we should ignore the fact that there are various giant characters who would more or less have to be Class M minimum via size and consistency that they attack by throwing giant rocks and large structures at their foes. Combined with the fact that the same giant characters have been overpowered/outmuscled by normal sized characters before + said giant forms aren't even their strongest transformations.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I mean, I really do not think we should ignore the fact that there are various giant characters who would more or less have to be Class M minimum via size and consistency that they attack by throwing giant rocks and large structures at their foes. Combined with the fact that the same giant characters have been overpowered/outmuscled by normal sized characters before + said giant forms aren't even their strongest transformations.
Click to expand...
A great example is Piccolo's giant form where its outright stated that it doesn't actually increase his power in any way.
 
Damage3245 said:
There may be a way we can accomodate both by pointing out that the characters can't actually lift a whole lot of weight, but they are great at crushing things.
Click to expand...
Do you, at the very least, accept the calc as applicable to LS?
 
LaserPrecision said:
Don't disagree with the calc (or this being added to the profile), but shouldn't this CRT also address the consistency and the many many anti-feats sprinkled throughout Dragon Ball? Because I assume that's a major reason for Goku having unknown LS for such a long time. But if it doesn't get addressed here, someone will inevitably make a downgrade CRT. So it's better to nip it in the bud before it becomes a problem. It should also mention (Although it's obvious) what key this scales to. In this case Namek Saga Goku.
Click to expand...
The inconsistency as I said isn't actually a inconsistency more so a consistent gap between their normal LS and their body weight LS (until super)

When you look into it, it's not actually random,
From OG DB, their lifting strength has been sequestered into two groups
Normal lifting - basically picking things up, bench pressing, combat applicable
Body weight - wearing weighted clothing/gravity training
.it's somewhat similar t the combat speed and travel speed difference imho

Basically;
1) When Goku pushes the first boulder, calced at about 40 tons, he's also training with 10kg or so weighted clothing
2) When Goku and krillin then push the much larger boulder, (about 300-500+ tons iirc) the train with 40kg weights
3) At the tournament, Goku tosses a Giant piccolo (whose body weight alone was about 160 tons) yet isbweighed down by 250 pounds weifted clothing
4) 40 tons thing was also weighted clothing, but as the data books explained, using bukijutsu with weights is extremely difficult

Then when it comes to gravity, it's treated more as an adaptive thing in DB
1) Goku was born on planet Vegeta yet struggled initially under 10x, he wasn't weaker than when he was a baby
2) post Frieza Gohan, who's thousands of time stronger than any average Saiyan, struggled under 10x gravity when he first experienced it, his lifting strength isn't less than those Saiyans
Click to expand...

In the entire series the only low end LS I've seen is in super manga with magetta and that's assuming the robot wasn't resisting it, otherwise their ability to push, pull, lift over their heads is consistently high
 
MEGA BUMP

Current Votes:
  • Agree: Maverick_Zero_X, Da3ggman (He matters in my heart), DarkDragonMedeus, LephyrTheRevanchist
  • Disagree:
  • Neutral: Damage3245, TheRustyOne
 
Last edited:
LegendariumOfLies said:
MEGA BUMP

Current Votes:
  • Agree: Maverick_Zero_X, Da3ggman (He matters in my heart), DarkDragonMedeus
  • Disagree:
  • Neutral: LephyrTheRevanchist, Damage3245, TheRustyOne
Click to expand...
Don't put me on a vote if you don't know my position, it's better if you simply ask me.

I am not neutral. I have argued for the scaling to the feat, I agree with it.
 
So, thread is accepted then? 3 Admins agreed. Two are neutral. It's been >48 hours since thread was made.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
I personally prefer to wait for Damage (or another calc group member) to confirm the feat is applicable for lifting, but technically yeah, thread is accepted.
Click to expand...
At the moment i have nothing more to add. I might have to re-investigate our lifting strength standards at a later date.
 
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