• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Galaxy Cauldron: High 1A+ Upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
MeiouHades said:
Yeah no, this is the DIRECT deduction that one can make from that panel, you're gonna need some hard evidence to refute this anti-feat.

Also PLEASE address the standard issues I've raised, it's insane how I have to practically beg the OP to defend their argument
Click to expand...



Here Chibi-chibi clearly tells Moon to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron. Sailor Moon directly speaks about destroying the cauldron. No where does chibi chibi state that you need to destroy the galaxy to destroy the cauldron. Also, galaxies comment, comes right after this, when Sailor Moon speaks about the galaxy having no future if the cauldron is destroyed. This completely disregards and invalidates your "interpretation."

Post a scan stating that destroying the galaxy, destroys the cauldron, or that the galaxy cauldron is dependent on the galaxy and stop derailing my thread with misinformation.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:


Here Chibi-chibi clearly tells Moon to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron. Sailor Moon directly speaks about destroying the cauldron. No where does chibi chibi state that you need to destroy the galaxy to destroy the cauldron.
Click to expand...

Nowhere did I claim that you need to destroy the galaxy to do so either. But there's an even bigger problem with this scan that I'll highlight below
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also, galaxies comment, comes right after this, when Sailor Moon speaks about the galaxy having no future if the cauldron is destroyed. This completely disregards and invalidates your "interpretation."
Click to expand...
See that statement right there at the bottom? The one stating "Then one day, the galaxy won't really have a future!!"? That directly implies that the destruction of the Cauldron won't even bring immediate destruction to the galaxy itself. So forget it collapsing the entire verse or even the universe when its destruction is something that will one day be a problem for the galaxy. I'd honestly check the raws on this if I were you because you've just debunked two of your own points at once
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Post a scan stating that destroying the galaxy, destroys the cauldron, or that the galaxy cauldron is dependent on the galaxy and stop derailing my thread with misinformation.
Click to expand...
You wanna move on from this? That's great, so will you finally address my ACTUAL points? It's almost concerning how thoroughly you're avoiding it to the point you don't even address me question why you're avoiding them.

EDIT: Also, isn't this the scan that comes right before the galaxy statement? Not the one you sent?
 
Last edited:
Robo432343 said:
i agree with that but the problem lies with how you interpret the hypothetical which is what's going on here
that hypothetical statement is not supported by any actual feat of the cauldron being destroyed
Click to expand...
Robo, common sense, the panel literally stated, a new Cauldron, literally, mean there are old and new, i swear, this is just common language sense, Occam Razor, if you want to prove otherwise, bring out better evidences that can counter it, if not, your argument is just personal interpretation without any ground to support
 
MeiouHades said:
See that statement right there at the bottom? The one stating "Then one day, the galaxy won't really have a future!!"? That directly implies that the destruction of the Cauldron won't even bring immediate destruction to the galaxy itself. So forget it collapsing the entire verse or even the universe when its destruction is something that will one day be a problem for the galaxy. I'd honestly check the raws on this if I were you because you've just debunked two of your own points at once
Click to expand...
debunk what points? I want you to quote where I said destroying the galaxy cauldron would lead to immediate destruction? I posted this scan in the OP, did you even read them?

Also, this is a hypothetical from Usagi, who has limited knowledge, and also a statement about something that hasn’t happened and has never happened before. And the next scan clearly says “end everything”.

Nothing has been debunked.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
debunk what points? I want you to quote where I said destroying the galaxy cauldron would lead to immediate destruction? I posted this scan in the OP, did you even read them?
Click to expand...
It leads to the galaxy dying out because no new stars would be produced like a..... normal galaxy? You don't see how this debunks entirely the assertion made earlier about how its destruction would lead to the collapse of the entire verse and how its existence must be preserved immediately to prevent that from happening? You didn't directly state this, yes, but a few of the people supporting your arguments did whom I presume you agree with since you didn't contest it.
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Also, this is a hypothetical from Usagi, who has limited knowledge, and also a statement about something that hasn’t happened and has never happened before. And the next scan clearly says “end everything”.
Click to expand...
Already addressed this before, it being a hypothetical means nothing. It's stated to be something that COULD happen, and if a more knowledgeable Usagi (or someone else) hasn't contested this I don't see why bringing that up is relevant
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Nothing has been debunked.
Click to expand...
Here, I presume nothing = everything relevant that was attempted to make this upgrade viable. Now please, for the sake of whatever gods that are listening, please address my concerns over your misuse and misunderstanding of BDE standards.
 
MeiouHades said:
It leads to the galaxy dying out because no new stars would be produced like a..... normal galaxy? You don't see how this debunks entirely the assertion made earlier about how its destruction would lead to the collapse of the entire verse and how its existence must be preserved immediately to prevent that from happening? You didn't directly state this, yes, but a few of the people supporting your arguments did whom I presume you agree with since you didn't contest it.
Click to expand...
Once again, missing information.

When Usagi makes this sentence, she has not met Guardian Cosmos and does know about the existence of the Cosmos Seed. The destruction of the seed, leads to immediate destruction of the form.

There is no way for Usagi to know that destroying the Cauldron would destroy the cosmos seed. From her perspective, it just births stars. Destroying it would mean no more stars would be birthed.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Once again, missing information.

When Usagi makes this sentence, she has not met Guardian Cosmos and does know about the existence of the Cosmos Seed. The destruction of the seed, leads to immediate destruction of the form.

There is no way for Usagi to know that destroying the Cauldron would destroy the cosmos seed. From her perspective, it just births stars. Destroying it would mean no more stars would be birthed.
Click to expand...
So has that statement been contested then? Is it stated that cosmos seed destruction would result in the immediate destruction of the universe (genuine question here, not rhetorical)? Also that still doesn't address the galaxy itself, she still knows that it creates star seeds for everything, and despite that she still concludes that the galaxy will just die a slow death like any normal galaxy.

Also this debate is starting to become pointless, please address my concerns over your misuse of BDE standards.
 
MeiouHades said:
Is it stated that cosmos seed destruction would result in the immediate destruction of the universe (genuine question here, not rhetorical)
Click to expand...
The series has directly shown that destroying the seeds immediately destroys the form. Why would it be different for cosmos seed?

MeiouHades said:
Also that still doesn't address the galaxy itself, she still knows that it creates star seeds for everything, and despite that she still concludes that the galaxy will just die a slow death like any normal galaxy.
Click to expand...

This is non-issue, the galaxy is inclusive in everything. If meteorite is going to destroy earth, me saying, “my kids won’t have a future!” Does not mean that the meteorite is only going to kill my kids.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The series has directly shown that destroying the seeds immediately destroys the form. Why would it be different for cosmos seed?
Click to expand...
If the site accepts this then I suppose that's fine but I personally believe you should have a statement for it. Regardless, it's irrelevant like I said.
Iamunanimousinthat said:
This is non-issue, the galaxy is inclusive in everything. If meteorite is going to destroy earth, me saying, “my kids won’t have a future!” Does not mean that the meteorite is only going to kill my kids.
Click to expand...
That's a total non-analogy. She specifically mentions the galaxy and SPECIFICALLY mentions it dying ONE DAY. This is not at all equivalent to immediate destruction that SHOULD occur if and when all star seeds within are destroyed (which she by now knows that it contains them). I shouldn't have to spell this out.

Also please unanimous, I'm practically begging you at this point to start the actual argument over the standard and your use of them. It's been over 3 pages of yapping with almost nothing of substance and I'm starting to get sleepy.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I already put you down for disagreed. I already made my comment about your original comment.
Click to expand...
Yeah no, that ain't how it works. YOU are supposed to defend your argument, especially if you truly believe it's completely sound, that's what any normal person does. The fact that you didn't and routinely and deliberately avoided me questioning it, just shows that you're aware the argument isn't that strong as I've ALREADY pointed out. This is terrible behavior in a CRT and I refuse to believe you're being serious while doing this.
 
MeiouHades said:
That's a total non-analogy. She specifically mentions the galaxy and SPECIFICALLY mentions it dying ONE DAY. This is not at all equivalent to immediate destruction that SHOULD occur if and when all star seeds within are destroyed (which she by now knows that it contains them). I shouldn't have to spell this out.
Click to expand...

You are going in circles: i already addressed this here and here.
 
Are you doing this just so I'll take the bait and rage quit, effectively leaving no one to scrutinize your CRT for its blatant abuse and manipulation/misinterpretation of standards? Because it's not gonna work, I'm stubbornly persistent and won't stop until I get you to address my actual arguments.
Iamunanimousinthat said:
i already addressed this here and here.
Click to expand...
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The scan clearly states that no new stars will be born.
Click to expand...
Right, when in reality the destruction of all stars seeds is what should've caused the immediate death of the galaxy and everyone/everything else to yet.... that's not even a concern even though she's aware of said star seeds. Glad you're getting this irrelevant point, now can we please start the actual debate?
 
MeiouHades said:
Right, when in reality the destruction of all stars seeds is what should've caused the immediate death of the galaxy and everyone/everything else to yet.... that's not even a concern even though she's aware of said star seeds. Glad you're getting this irrelevant point, now can we please start the actual debate?
Click to expand...
Again, you’re missing information.

The galaxy cauldron births stars seeds, and the star seeds return once the form dies. The star seeds of the universe have not returned to the cauldron.
 
MeiouHades said:
What else do you expect me to conclude when you've basically confirmed you're not interested in an actual debate and are only looking for agreements basically? What else is it if not this?
Click to expand...
I replied to you. I am not obligated to respond to every reply.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Again, you’re missing information.

The galaxy cauldron births stars seeds, and the star seeds return once the form dies. The star seeds of the universe have not returned to the cauldron.
Click to expand...
???
The destruction of the Cauldron should cause all the star seeds to be destroyed as well yes? Meaning that it should not be a one day the galaxy will have no future scenario it should be a HOLY SHIT WE'RE GONNA DIE ALL OF US RIGHT NOW!!!!!" yet that's not what is either stated or implied. That's what I'm questioning. Does it or does it not contain star seeds still?
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
I replied to you. I am not obligated to respond to every reply.
Click to expand...
You replied to almost entirely irrelevant snippets of my comments, not the actual arguments. And no you are obligated to reply in a thread since you're the one making the proposal and it's on you to defend this. If you're gonna expend so much energy on replying to almost irrelevant stuff what exactly stops you from engaging in the actual debate with me?
 
MeiouHades said:
???
The destruction of the Cauldron should cause all the star seeds to be destroyed as well yes? Meaning that it should not be a one day the galaxy will have no future scenario it should be a HOLY SHIT WE'RE GONNA DIE ALL OF US RIGHT NOW!!!!!" yet that's not what is either stated or implied. That's what I'm questioning.
Click to expand...
No where in the OP did I say this. Also this a moot point because destruction of the cosmos seed would destroy everything anyway.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
No where in the OP did I say this. Also this a moot point because destruction of the cosmos seed would destroy everything anyway.
Click to expand...
You didn't, which is why I'm bringing it up and questioning it. Also you stated that no star seeds from the universe have returned to it but that cannot possibly be true, given that living beings, celestial object, etc (all who possess star seeds) would die every and causing their star seed to return to it. And even after that, once it is destroyed, where do the star seeds of other objects go to once their form dies?
 
I'm gonna sleep for a while. Please contest the actual points I've raised regarding your adherence to standards instead of continuing this debate. I'm almost tempted to concede this just so I can get you to actually debate me on what matters.
 
MeiouHades said:
You didn't, which is why I'm bringing it up and questioning it.
Click to expand...
Why are you bringing up and questioning something I didn’t say? That’s derailment and called a strawman.

MeiouHades said:
Also you stated that no star seeds from the universe have returned to it but that cannot possibly be true, given that living beings, celestial object, etc (all who possess star seeds) would die every and causing their star seed to return to it.
Click to expand...

This will be my last response to you because you are currently grasping at straws. I already told you that star seeds only return to the cauldron once the form is dead. If a star seeds is in the universe, that means the form is not dead, therefore it has not returned to the cauldron.

MeiouHades said:
And even after that, once it is destroyed, where do the star seeds of other objects go to once their form dies?
Click to expand...
??? If the cauldron is destroyed, then the cosmos seed is destroyed, then the cosmos is destroyed, then the star seeds in the cosmos are destroyed.
 
MeiouHades said:
Robo, read this very, very, VERY slowly. Why would a NEW Cauldron need to spring into existence?
Click to expand...
In his defense, it could be a dependency situation like the supreme kai and Beerus.

Haven't read the scans nor care to but it's technically possible.

Don't know if a dependency like, supposing that's the case is a low 1-A anti-feat 🤷‍♂️
 
Hasty12345 said:
In his defense, it could be a dependency situation like the supreme kai and Beerus.

Haven't read the scans nor care to but it's technically possible.

Don't know if a dependency like, supposing that's the case is a low 1-A anti-feat 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Not even that. It's being claimed its a low 1-A structure. Not to mention that the destruction of the cauldron, the galaxy doesn't even get destroyed immediately. It just dies naturally due to it not producing stars anymore. Its possible for there to be a new one when it predates everything lmao. That's the entire point hades was trying to make. Not to mention his other points talking about BDE were also not contested in the slightest. Nor was there ever proof of ontological superiority. And its especially an anti feat when it being destroyed doesn't even bring about its immediate destruction, its just "one day". And it'll just spawn somewhere else lol.
 
idk why hades is saying the hypothetical scan is an anti feat

the real anti feat is this and the fact that sailor moon had the decision to destroy the cauldron or not
zgeoYO0.png
 
Last edited:
TiltedFN said:
Not even that. It's being claimed its a low 1-A structure. Not to mention that the destruction of the cauldron, the galaxy doesn't even get destroyed immediately. It just dies naturally due to it not producing stars anymore.
Click to expand...
It’s dishonest to state this when I already addressed this:

When Usagi makes this sentence, she has not met Guardian Cosmos and does not know about the existence of the Cosmos Seed. The destruction of the seed, leads to immediate destruction of the form.

There is no way for Usagi to know that destroying the Cauldron would destroy the cosmos seed. From her current perspective, it just births stars. Destroying it would mean no more stars would be birthed from her limited knowledge at the time.

TiltedFN said:
Its possible for there to be a new one when it predates everything lmao
Click to expand...
Also you guys keep repeating this like it it means something. Where on the wiki does it state that something that predates matter cannot regenerate?
 
Robo432343 said:
idk why hades is saying the hypothetical scan is an anti feat

the real anti feat is this and the fact that sailor moon had the decision to destroy the cauldron or not
zgeoYO0.png
Click to expand...
I explained why I brought that hypothetical up, but this is also a good point yes. The destruction of Cauldron is supposed to 'preserve' the galaxy's future which just puts an even greater dent into its sheer important to the entire cosmology and by extension its proposed rating which I will once again remind everyone that @Iamunanimousinthat has made absolutely 0 efforts in defending from my questioning under the guise of not being 'obligated' to respond to me. I find it hard to believe that this is a serious CRT. I'll see if I can talk to a mod about moving it to Fun and Games.
 
Hasty12345 said:
In his defense, it could be a dependency situation like the supreme kai and Beerus.

Haven't read the scans nor care to but it's technically possible.

Don't know if a dependency like, supposing that's the case is a low 1-A anti-feat 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Could be, but there are several problems with that and the return of star seeds that haven't really been addressed. Like I said though, this is an almost irrelevant section of the debate. Anti-feats aren't even necessary when the OP has done nothing to actually defend why it's Low 1-A in the first place.
 
MeiouHades said:
The destruction of Cauldron is supposed to 'preserve' the galaxy's future which just puts an even greater dent into its sheer important to the entire cosmology and by extension its proposed rating which I will once again remind everyone that
Click to expand...
You just made this up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Iamunanimousinthat
  • Locked
Metaphysical Aspects in Sailor Moon
4 5 6
Replies
224
Views
24K
Iamunanimousinthat
Iamunanimousinthat
  • Locked
Finite Universe in Sailor Moon
Replies
30
Views
4K
SailorRanger64
SailorRanger64
Iamunanimousinthat
  • Locked
Sailor Moon, Galaxy Cauldron: Beyond Dimensional Existence
Replies
29
Views
7K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Iamunanimousinthat
  • Locked
Sailor Moon AP Upgrade: Low 1-C
4 5 6
Replies
212
Views
17K
Random-Helper323
Random-Helper323
Iamunanimousinthat
  • Locked
[Concluded] Operation: Star Healer
2
Replies
79
Views
11K
Iamunanimousinthat
Iamunanimousinthat
Back
Top