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Cid Kagenou VS Ayanokouji Kiyotaka • (6-0-0)

Phoenks

Phoenks

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It's been a while since I've done a match. Really haven't been using the site beyond just stalking things here and there occasionally.

This idea seemed like it had potential. Hopefully it's fair enough.


Cid Kagenou VS Ayanokouji Kiyotaka (Eminence in Shadow VS Classroom of the Elite)​


37qSVDC.png
3Lntv0H.png


Conditions​

  • Everything above 9-C is restricted. This includes Cid's magic and atomic explosion. The reason for this should be pretty clear. I want this to be a more melee-oriented battle, and not a stomp.
  • Current Ayanokouji is used.
  • Speed is equalized. Kouji would blitz him otherwise.
  • Battle takes place in an abandoned warehouse.
  • Contestants start from a distance of 30m (100 feet) away.
  • Only hands, no weapons!

Useful Information​

  • Ayanokouji is 1.33x stronger than Cid (13.2 KJ vs 9.92 KJ). This difference isn't crazy notable, but a 33% strength advantage is definitely useful in a street tier matchup.
  • Ayanokouji has a 4.4x lifting strength advantage over Cid (1000kg vs 227kg). This could be a winning factor for him provided he takes advantage of it.


If you're going to vote, then please say "I am voting for x character" or "x character FRA." Otherwise I will not count you. I don't want to assume what your vote is.

Apologies if you get pinged here from this, it's because of my staff status.

Votes​

Cid Kagenou: 6 (@Doggo, @TheGreatJedi13, @RoggerReggor, @Noneless21, @SatellaTheWoE, @GodEarh206)
Ayanokouji Kiyotaka:
Inconclusive:
 
Last edited:
you know, having a sword in a fist fight gives you a lot of leverage, especially for someone as good as Cid in swordmanship, he can keep Kouji in check and outrange him

basically, Cid takes this i think
 
Cid can apparently defeat people with more than a millenia of sword combat experience, and according to his profile, the closest thing ayanokoji has to that is a knife that he used, like, a couple times. So with optional equipment koji is definitely at a disadvantage at the start, both in experience/skill and in terms of the kinds of weapons they have access to. A 'steel sword' sounds a lot more practical in a fight than a knife or a baton. Ayanokoji could adapt, but so can cid, and the descriptions of the latters feats make me think he can do so quicker too. Koji also has no way of knowing how formidable of an opponent cid is since he resists IA.

I think it'd be more fair without equipment
 
I guess for the sake of ultimate fairness I will restrict the weapons then lol.
 
Cid kinda edges out a lot with a lot of feats when it comes to intelligence.
His Stamina feat also seems impressive since we don't know what level 10 in the white room really entails when it comes to difficulty.
There is also his Soft stance, which can lessen even the small AP gap

So the Advantage for Ayanokouji is mostly LS, which is 4.4x. He should be able to easily notice this even without IA
But Kagenous being able to dislocate his joins might make this difficult for Ayanokouji to make it lasting and failed attempts would just make Cid Kagenou be wary about it
 
Cid definitely takes stamina. Multiple days of fighting is superior to anything Kouji has. He's still relatively grounded in that category.
 
Well, suppose I'll count that, but dang lol. No discussion or further arguments?!
 
Hold on. Most of Cid's skill feats are for swordsmanship. Can he apply the same level of skill in h2h?
 
Doggo said:
Hold on. Most of Cid's skill feats are for swordsmanship. Can he apply the same level of skill in h2h?
Click to expand...
From what I know, Cid learned a variety of martial arts to a proficient level of mastery.

He learned boxing, karate, and MMA. He also just has a lot of sword feats that probably would transfer over.
 
Phoenks said:
From what I know, Cid learned a variety of martial arts to a proficient level of mastery.

He learned boxing, karate, and MMA. He also just has a lot of sword feats that probably would transfer over.
Click to expand...
Eh. Just because you're good at one thing, it doesn't mean you're as good at another. Koji has better H2H feats than Cid, so I might change my vote unless a supporter debunks my argument.
 
What exactly are Kouji's good martial arts feats?
 
 
Doggo said:
Eh. Just because you're good at one thing, it doesn't mean you're as good at another. Koji has better H2H feats than Cid, so I might change my vote unless a supporter debunks my argument.
Click to expand...
Sure. But you have to factor Cid's Learning ability and precision when it comes to it as a form of adaptation to fighting styles and situations without weaponry.
Also factor in the fact that Cid's current world has more varied styles thanks to the additions of magic, etc, which he also factors in when learning and adapting to his enemies, not to mention enemies that can hone their skills beyond human lifespan due to being supernatural.

It would make Ayanokouji be skilled in hand to hand combat but Cid is capable of learning and growing from things already far more complex than just hand 2 hand with precision like suddenly using a pen as a weapon or creating a style purely for artistic preference, yet defeating something far more skilled.

Just because one's skills are mostly a variety of weapons doesn't mean they cannot adapt to something as simple as hand-to-hand combat,t and the reason Cid even grew outside h2h in the first place is due to how limiting it is, no matter how much you hone or master it

Which would eventually end up as an adaptation battle as they keep adjusting to their enemy's style as they learn each other's style.

And if we are to compare it. One being able to best someone who has honed his swordsmanship for 1000 years using a Pen in the same encounter. compared to one being able to completely dominate his enemies despite being bested for at least 1-3x initially.
You'll see the glaring difference
 
The amount of knowledge I have on Cid has made me realize that this is an ultimate skillstomp in favour of Cid, but I will not complain since I have seen stuff very close to that in favour of Kiyotaka and have even voted him.

Cid has my vote.
 
not a skillstomp
since if he did catch him with LS and had to dislocate
without magic he cannot simply heal and regen that
he has a way to keep up but simply not good enough that it will be a race for him rather than taking time to adjust to his enemies
 
Does restricting magic also restricting him using his slime armor?

Because his slime armor can also be used as weapon

If not then well, Cid still win I suppose
 
Imagine being the masterpiece of a hidden facility only to lose to some guy who pursues a weird dream
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
not a skillstomp
since if he did catch him with LS and had to dislocate
without magic he cannot simply heal and regen that
he has a way to keep up but simply not good enough that it will be a race for him rather than taking time to adjust to his enemies
Click to expand...
It is, Koji is not touching a guy who can dodge mach speed with walking, dodge invisible attacks, danmaku and stuff like that, LS is not a wincon for koji when he won't even graze cid
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
Its speed is equal. You can still corner someone into being unable to dodge even if they can react
Click to expand...
Speed equal means it's way easier to dodge lol, also, you need to factor info analysis and ANPR which Cid wins and counters Koji ANPR and info analysis
 
Cid wins in;
  • ANPR and Info analysis
  • Stamina
  • H2H
  • Skill
  • Senses
  • Biq
And pretty much anything that is not stat related

This is a text book definition of a skill stomp
 
Phoenks said:
It's been a while since I've done a match. Really haven't been using the site beyond just stalking things here and there occasionally.

This idea seemed like it had potential. Hopefully it's fair enough.


Cid Kagenou VS Ayanokouji Kiyotaka (Eminence in Shadow VS Classroom of the Elite)​


37qSVDC.png
3Lntv0H.png


Conditions​

  • Everything above 9-C is restricted. This includes Cid's magic and atomic explosion. The reason for this should be pretty clear. I want this to be a more melee-oriented battle, and not a stomp.
  • Current Ayanokouji is used.
  • Speed is equalized. Kouji would blitz him otherwise.
  • Battle takes place in an abandoned warehouse.
  • Contestants start from a distance of 30m (100 feet) away.
  • Only hands, no weapons!

Useful Information​

  • Ayanokouji is 1.33x stronger than Cid (13.2 KJ vs 9.92 KJ). This difference isn't crazy notable, but a 33% strength advantage is definitely useful in a street tier matchup.
  • Ayanokouji has a 4.4x lifting strength advantage over Cid (1000kg vs 227kg). This could be a winning factor for him provided he takes advantage of it.


If you're going to vote, then please say "I am voting for x character" or "x character FRA." Otherwise I will not count you. I don't want to assume what your vote is.

Apologies if you get pinged here from this, it's because of my staff status.

Votes​

Cid Kagenou: 2 (@Doggo, @TheGreatJedi13)
Ayanokouji Kiyotaka:
Inconclusive:
Click to expand...
I suggest you close this
 
I can comment in more details with scans later.

All I'm saying for now is that Cid will win, imo, even if speed is unequalized and you give ayanokouji preparation (gets countered by luck and his resistences).
Ayanokouji has stats on his side, if it's enough to say that this is not a stomp then sure, Cid wins, but I don't see Ayanokouji having real winconcs here.
 
XxZetsuxX said:
Cid wins in;
  • ANPR and Info analysis
  • Stamina
  • H2H
  • Skill
  • Senses
  • Biq
And pretty much anything that is not stat related

This is a text book definition of a skill stomp
Click to expand...
I don't think the skill gap is that big, and Koji has stats

At best Cid mid diffs
 
Doggo said:
I don't think the skill gap is that big, and Koji has stats

At best Cid mid diffs
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Koji is comparable to someone who as a kid was already top 2 of the verse (only below Aurora) who scales unfathomably higher than Fenrir who has 1000 years of skill and experience and cid stomped him?

What feat does Koji have that makes him comparable to Cid here?

Koji's lifetime of knowledge (martial arts and other stuff) only amounts to 100+ years or so

There is literally no contest here
 
A couple of things.

- Cid, as he is on the page, is only able to react to super fast things via magic. The same magic makes him higher than 9-C, and thus is still restricted in this match. Under speed equal he has no such advantage.

- Cid's skill, as mentioned before, is still mostly geared towards swordsmenship, not hand to hand martial arts. While some of it transfers, as I've said, it isn't that definitive.

- It's definitely not a stomp considering that Kouji has grappling under his belt with things like Judo. If he's able to get his hands on Cid even once he could abuse a 4x LS advantage. I do not think the gap between them is so large that he can not even land one hit.

All in all, think you're overblowing the difference here. If I still had Cid with a sword, I'd agree, but not in pure hand to hand.
 
Phoenks said:
A couple of things.

- Cid, as he is on the page, is only able to react to super fast things via magic. The same magic makes him higher than 9-C, and thus is still restricted in this match. Under speed equal he has no such advantage.
Click to expand...
He did not use magic on the mach 1 stuff, he just predicted their trajectories
Phoenks said:
- Cid's skill, as mentioned before, is still mostly geared towards swordsmenship, not hand to hand martial arts. While some of it transfers, as I've said, it isn't that definitive.
Click to expand...
H2H is literally his specialty, Koji will get stomped even harder in H2H than with swordsmanship
Phoenks said:
- It's definitely not a stomp considering that Kouji has grappling under his belt with things like Judo. If he's able to get his hands on Cid even once he could abuse a 4x LS advantage. I do not think the gap between them is so large that he can not even land one hit.
Click to expand...
Koji is not touching Cid, literally just take a look at their profiles, Cid has ANPR and Info analysis that will tell how strong Koji is, Koji will not be able to ANPR and Info analysis Cid because Cid counters
Phoenks said:
All in all, think you're overblowing the difference here. If I still had Cid with a sword, I'd agree, but not in pure hand to hand.
Click to expand...
H2H is his specialty lol
 
Phoenks said:
- Cid's skill, as mentioned before, is still mostly geared towards swordsmenship, not hand to hand martial arts. While some of it transfers, as I've said, it isn't that definitive.
Click to expand...
His hand to hand is better than his sword. Stated here. He just hardly use it, but whatever feat he does with weapons it upscales for his h2h.
 
XxZetsuxX said:
He did not use magic on the mach 1 stuff, he just predicted their trajectories
Click to expand...
I'm saying on the page. Said reaction speed is not on the page.


XxZetsuxX said:
Koji is not touching Cid, literally just take a look at their profiles, Cid has ANPR and Info analysis that will tell how strong Koji is, Koji will not be able to ANPR and Info analysis Cid because Cid counters
Click to expand...
Both of them have ANPR and IA, and resistance to it. How would it be countered? It's not like they're layered.
 
Phoenks said:
Both of them have ANPR and IA, and resistance to it. How would it be countered? It's not like they're layered.
Click to expand...
Cid's resistences are more potent due to having more variety and being better than ppl who have alot of ways of ANPR and Info Analysis
 
Koji's resistence to ANPR is attacking unpredictably, something that is mostly common in EIS
 
I am in favor of cid too but beating someone with a 1000 yrs of experience is not a feat in and of itself, yall gotta do better in skillslop man
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
I am in favor of cid too but beating someone with a 1000 yrs of experience is not a feat in and of itself, yall gotta do better in skillslop man
Click to expand...
Yeah.

And IIRC, a big reason Cid was even so skilled in the world was because they were significantly behind in advancement compared to Earth. In both technology and martial arts.
 
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