A few changes for Undertale

[Hypercyber37]

Removed Immesurable speed: Hyper goner statement doesn't feel like Immesurable speed at all. Frisk just dodges things that are pulled in and resists hyper goner's pull. Even if she can't dodge the attacks, she will survive with 1 hp left. It seems like Resistance instead of Speed.



A little Chara addendum: It says Chara can't have all of Frisk's Hax but she literally got them all in the soulless good ending

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Robo432343]

Undertale Revise and Rebirth

This is gonna be a short one simply because the evidence regarding the stats in question is not very In depth. The aim of this thread is quite simple, I wanted to bring to attention the reasons Undertale does not qualify for Immeasurable speed. The main source of evidence used in this is...

vsbattles.com

 

[StrymULTRA]

Honestly I feel like making a discussion rule on this if this gets rejected, as it's the 3rd attempt to remove it and the arguments never change.

I feel like I'll have to also update the blog used for Immeasurable speed as it's clearly not working either. ANYWAY...

Even if she can't dodge the attacks, she will survive with 1 hp left. It seems like Resistance instead of Speed.

While being hit from the Hyper Goner sets your HP to 1, fully dodging it while remaining with full HPs is indeed possible, just really hard to do.

A little Chara addendum: It says Chara can't have all of Frisk's Hax but she literally got them all in the soulless good ending

Since when possessing someone means getting all of their hax? Chara actively takes over Frisk's body only when they're not at the Peak of their DT, applying Frisk's Peak DT Hax to Chara is just not correct.

 

[Hypercyber37]

Honestly I feel like making a discussion rule on this if this gets rejected, as it's the 3rd attempt to remove it and the arguments never change.

I feel like I'll have to also update the blog used for Immeasurable speed as it's clearly not working either. ANYWAY...

While being hit from the Hyper Goner sets your HP to 1, fully dodging it while remaining with full HPs is indeed possible, just really hard to do.

Since when possessing someone means getting all of their hax? Chara actively takes over Frisk's body only when they're not at the Peak of their DT, applying Frisk's Peak DT Hax to Chara is just not correct.

She did this in Soulless good ending. She did everything Frisk did and in the ending she showed us that she was actually Chara.

 

[StrymULTRA]

She did this in Soulless good ending

Yeah, when Frisk was clearly not at their full potential as it happened way after the Asriel's fight, why are you lying?

 

[Hypercyber37]

Yeah, when Frisk was clearly not at their full potential as it happened way after the Asriel's fight, why are you lying?

lie?
Ok, let me explain it in a way your brain can understand better. At the end of the bad ending, we gave our soul to Chara. In soulless good ending, we saw that we used Frisk constantly and even though. But we learned in the last scene is Chara . We used Chara from beginning soulless pasifict

 

[Hypercyber37]

lie?
Ok, let me explain it in a way your brain can understand better. At the end of the bad ending, we gave our soul to Chara. In soulless good ending, we saw that we used Frisk constantly and even though. But we learned in the last scene is Chara . We used Chara from beginning soulless pasifict

We were chara from the beginning in the soulless pacific route but we learned this at the end of the series. It's pretty self explanatory and simple

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok, let me explain it in a way your brain can understand better.

Nice subtle aggression.

At the end of the bad ending, we gave our soul to Chara. In soulless good ending, we saw that we used Frisk constantly and even though. But we learned in the last scene is Chara . We used Chara from beginning soulless pasifict

• Breaking the Fourth Wall and Limited Possession (Briefly takes control of Frisk during parts of the Genocide run, as shown with the text recognizing Frisk as Chara unlike in the other Routes, Flowey instantly recognizing them as Chara despite having a different appearance and other big changes in personality than Frisk's that other monsters notice, or also opponents getting damage in only "9s" when Chara takes over unlike other enemies, due to Chara being linked to said number. Despite said control can be broken if the Player does not collaborate with them in their guidance, Chara will still take full control of Frisk at the end of a True Pacifist completed after a Genocide run)

I think I did a pretty good job at explaining already how Chara is not constantly taking over Frisk, and they do make obvious hints when they do so compared to when Frisk is normal, with the parts of justifications that I bolded and underlined making it clearer.

Aka the thing you have to refute is basically the fact that Chara takes over Frisk only in limited moments in the Genocide Route and the ending of the Soulless Pacifist Routes, and are not controlling Frisk 24/7 (I mean Frisk still tells to Asriel they're not Chara, so that counts as a contradiction too).

 

[Hypercyber37]

Nice subtle aggression.

• Breaking the Fourth Wall and Limited Possession (Briefly takes control of Frisk during parts of the Genocide run, as shown with the text recognizing Frisk as Chara unlike in the other Routes, Flowey instantly recognizing them as Chara despite having a different appearance and other big changes in personality than Frisk's that other monsters notice, or also opponents getting damage in only "9s" when Chara takes over unlike other enemies, due to Chara being linked to said number. Despite said control can be broken if the Player does not collaborate with them in their guidance, Chara will still take full control of Frisk at the end of a True Pacifist completed after a Genocide run)

I think I did a pretty good job at explaining already how Chara is not constantly taking over Frisk, and they do make obvious hints when they do so compared to when Frisk is normal, with the parts of justifications that I bolded and underlined making it clearer.

Aka the thing you have to refute is basically the fact that Chara takes over Frisk only in limited moments in the Genocide Route and the ending of the Soulless Pacifist Routes, and are not controlling Frisk 24/7 (I mean Frisk still tells to Asriel they're not Chara, so that counts as a contradiction too).

You have no right to question my attitude after you called me a liar

I don't understand what the examples you gave have to do with soulless pacific. Are we sure we're playing the same game?

Soulless pacific: This is the good ending we do after we do the bad ending and give our soul to chara. In the finale, we learn that the person we used as frisk is actually chara. Flowey always makes you look like chara whether you give your soul or not (it doesn't mean anything) here, there is a frisk who has surrendered herself to chara at the end of genocide. A chara who acts like frisk and shows herself at the end

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I disagree with the thread

 

[Hypercyber37]

Can I hear the reason?

I disagree with the thread

 

[StrymULTRA]

You have no right to question my attitude after you called me a liar

Because you say that Chara always possessed Frisk when that shit is just not true.

I don't understand what the examples you gave have to do with soulless pacific. Are we sure we're playing the same game?

Show me an instance of active Chara possession that isn't in the ending then.

Flowey always makes you look like chara whether you give your soul or not (it doesn't mean anything) here

It does...? Because in a Neutral Run Flowey does not say anything on Chara even when you kill Toriel twice, while in a Genocide he instantly recognizes as Chara.

Plus, besides the Asriel thing and the point above, explain why the mirrors don't say "It's me, Chara" when checked, or the Red Text reflecting Chara's active thoughts instead of normal descriptions appear in New Home. These are also obvious points of Chara being there, but in a soulless they do not appear. How weird, isn't it?

 

[Hypercyber37]

Because you say that Chara always possessed Frisk when that shit is just not true.

Show me an instance of active Chara possession that isn't in the ending then.

It does...? Because in a Neutral Run Flowey does not say anything on Chara even when you kill Toriel twice, while in a Genocide he instantly recognizes as Chara.

Plus, besides the Asriel thing and the point above, explain why the mirrors don't say "It's me, Chara" when checked, or the Red Text reflecting Chara's active thoughts instead of normal descriptions appear in New Home. These are also obvious points of Chara being there, but in a soulless they do not appear. How weird, isn't it?

I never said Chara was always possessed Frisk. I'm saying that she was completely in control in Soulless Pacific because she took Frisk's soul in Genocide before that. She acted like Frisk throughout the entire route and showed herself in the ending.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I never said Chara was always possessed Frisk.

Then you argument is?????

I'm saying that she was completely in control in Soulless Pacific because she took Frisk's soul in Genocide before that. She acted like Frisk throughout the entire route and showed herself in the ending.

There's literally no evidence for this. The most likely interpretation is that Chara just didn't bother taking over Frisk other than the ending, as dialogues and events that are changed from Chara's direct influence like the Asriel's talk, the lack of red text, and the lack of "it's me Chara" is enough contradictions to say that Chara does not always possess Frisk.

Given that we do not give in hypotetical what ifs like this just because they're possible (otherwise we'd have a Hyper Modern Sonic key, because of the possibility of him attaining a Super Emerald, or a lot of keys in Gogeta/Vegito's profiles because they can always fuse in any DBS arc), and Chara never takes over Frisk when they have full DT, just in moments when their DT is at their normal levels.

Meaning that we should leave Chara's profile as it is.

 

[Hypercyber37]

Then you argument is?????

There's literally no evidence for this. The most likely interpretation is that Chara just didn't bother taking over Frisk other than the ending, as dialogues and events that are changed from Chara's direct influence like the Asriel's talk, the lack of red text, and the lack of "it's me Chara" is enough contradictions to say that Chara does not always possess Frisk.

Given that we do not give in hypotetical what ifs like this just because they're possible (otherwise we'd have a Hyper Modern Sonic key, because of the possibility of him attaining a Super Emerald, or a lot of keys in Gogeta/Vegito's profiles because they can always fuse in any DBS arc), and Chara never takes over Frisk when they have full DT, just in moments when their DT is at their normal levels.

Meaning that we should leave Chara's profile as it is.

So what's the logic behind Chara absorbing Frisk's soul? Even though she didn't do this in the genocide route, she occasionally took control and spoke in red letters. If the same thing happens after absorbing her soul, what's the logic behind this? And why can't she get the hax she has thanks to Frisk's soul after taking her soul?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even though she didn't do this in the genocide route, she occasionally took control and spoke in red letters.

Hence why Chara gets a key for when they possess Frisk.

If the same thing happens after absorbing her soul, what's the logic behind this?

Chara did not truly absorb Frisk's SOUL, just took full control over it as argued here.

And why can't she get the hax she has thanks to Frisk's soul after taking her soul?

Because we index stuff as stuff goes and we do not go with what ifs even if possible in the context (otherwise where's that Broly Arc key for Vegito). Chara never takes over Frisk's body during the Asriel fight, and because of the rules, we cannot assign to Chara the full extent of Frisk's abilities.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Disagree FRA. Also yeah this is starting to happen too often.

 

[RanHover60]

Should note that OP’s made lots of undercooked crts over the last few months for multiple verses. Don’t think that itself is violating any site rules but I’d recommend that they should spend more time on making quality crts considering this one is very similar to the other recent immeasurable downgrade attempt that got rejected unanimously. Easy Disagree

 

[Speedblitzer50]

disagree FRA

 

[SeafoamJester]

Disagree fra

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Disagree for Strym's reasons.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Disagree FRA

 

[Ti58]

counterpoint to this CRT: no

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

disagree fra