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The Primal Hunter Low 1-A Concepts

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FriendOfTheTeaParty

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I thought concepts being low 1-A had a case so I might as well make it here.

So to establish what concepts are, they are the very essence of the world, as well as their fundamental truths, and are the "why" something is (being the source from which stuff originate from), and are the "bread and butter" that makes everything work, being one of fundamental sources of power.
Ch. 750 - The monk Jake had thought was also someone Jake was certain walked a Path of purely nomological concepts. Just being a monk, Jake already connected him to the Dao Sect – or at least a similar place – and the Dao thing sure as hell wasn’t an institution rooted in logic. Instead, it was about meditating for endless years, thinking about something until suddenly you received enlightenment.

On the note of enlightenment, there were a few theories as to how or why they appeared. Based on what Villy had said, it was a mix of receiving a genuine epiphany of understanding and the system then coming in to assist by filling in the gaps, even with things not necessarily related to skills. It wasn’t just understanding the fundamental truths of the universe, but instead getting an idea that the system then approved and helped make a reality.
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Ch. 115 - There was also the entire thing called concepts. Concepts, nomological laws, dao, laws of nature, the essence of the world. It all had many names, but ultimately it boiled down to comprehending the incomprehensible. To understand that which cannot be truly understood.

Many powerful skills found themselves rooted in concepts. Jacob knew that his own skills did so too. His divination being firmly rooted in the concept of divination itself. And if he managed to understand that concept better, so would his skill improve. Like a swordsman enhancing his skills with a sword, albeit countless times more complicated.

Reading, it quickly became clear, however, that concepts were something that often would come naturally. Something more easily accessed and understood as stats increased and ranks increased. Concepts could easily be explained with them being the “why” something is.

Some focused on learning these concepts and gain power that way, but it wasn’t strictly necessary. It was just one path of many.
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Ch. 1101 - “I also want to clarify that your understanding isn’t wrong. It has a lot of truth to it, and actively messing with the conceptual energy within each arrow isn’t a feasible method of fighting. In most cases, having a faster arrow does also mean it will do more damage, just be aware that this isn’t due to some law of physics. It happens because that’s what you believe should happen, and the energy you put into the arrow reflects that. The same is true in all other aspects of battle. What I’m talking about right now is a gross oversimplification of the effect of concepts, but nothing I said is definitively wrong, and it should be enough for now.”

“Got it,” Jake nodded as he considered everything they’d talked about. Concepts were something Jake still had a difficult time fully understanding, even if he knew they were pretty much the bread and butter that made everything work.

Swords relied on the concept of sharpness to cut things, armor on the concept of durability and resilience to block attacks, and hammers on the concept of... smashing stuff to smash stuff. What Jake still struggled with was the entire concept of better understanding a concept to make it stronger.

The Sword Saint was the complete opposite of Jake in this aspect. He had spoken a lot to the old man about concepts, and one of the things he’d learned was that no one could truly explain why something was. The old man could tell Jake that he “deepened his understanding” of the concept of sharpness, but he couldn’t properly put into words what exactly he understood.

No matter what, the effects couldn’t be denied. From Jake’s understanding of things, concepts were one of the fundamental sources of power in the system, alongside stats and energy. When one made an attack, the three most important parts were how many stats one had that affected the skill, how much energy one had poured into it, and how deep conceptual understanding one had of what went into the attack.
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Then there's the inherently boundless and endless nature of concepts that would firmly support a low 1-A rating.
Ch. 750 - Jake had to admit that he had never really understood what concepts were, and based on what Villy had said, with the Path he was walking, he likely never truly would.

Still, Jake tried to at least get a basic understanding. Based on the Primordial, concepts came in two forms. The “logical” and the “nomological.” It was a bit more complicated, but Jake did like to simplify things.

Logical concepts could be understood through intense study. They could be endlessly practiced and understood, like a researcher delving into a particular subject. With how deep the pit of knowledge went on nearly every topic after the system appeared, to truly try and comprehend something was a lifetime goal, even for gods. It was like there was always more to learn, even if you felt like you had seen anything. As if there was always one deeper layer one could dive into, one more level of understanding.

Nomological concepts were nearly the opposite. These were concepts that could not be explained logically by the person who used them. Nomological concepts were often of the more mysterious kind, and some concepts simply had no truly logical aspect to them. One could try to do a logical analysis of how everything related to a nomological concept worked and its effects, but one could never truly find a satisfying answer. The point of nomological concepts often was that there was no true answer.

A great example of a purely nomological concept was the entire Avarious and Horizon-chasing concept. The one that made him deal more damage to people higher level than himself didn’t have any logical groundwork; there was no theory of how it worked; it simply was. Even if someone made a skill like that, they would have no way to properly explain how it worked. They could say how they did it, the effects of the ability itself, but that didn’t in any way make it replicable.

Even if this distinction seemed rather strict, most top-tier concepts were a mix of the logical and nomological, though some did lean far more in one direction than the other. This did result in two people being able to learn the exact same concept, with one taking a logical and the other a nomological approach, but reaching very similar results.
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Ch. 1147 - Life was nothing more than an affinity of energy, and on the surface, a lot simpler to get a basic understanding of. It was one that was considered relatively high in the ranking of concepts, equal to the concept of death, but still below that of time and space. Of course, classifying concepts into how complex they were was a mostly meaningless exercise, as all concepts were inherently boundless in nature.
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So since concepts are the very source and essence of the world and these concepts just always having one more level of understanding, as well as being inherently boundless in nature, they cannot be limited to any particular understanding or instantiation of them, meaning by virtue of that they'd have to encompass all potential understandings or instances of the respective concepts or else limiting it to particulars that could exist runs into a category error.

Since this also includes concepts like space and time, and concepts being treated mostly equally as they're "inherently boundless" thus complexity ultimately doesn't matter, the full range of concepts would be Low 1-A. There's not really much to scale people to and is mostly cosmology shit, but anyone who originates their own concept or some how fully masters a concept would have Low 1-A range.

Edit: Forgot to mention but Laws and Records will scale above in some sort of way. I don't know how that'd work for metaphysical aspects but hierarchy is Records>Laws>Concepts as accepted in another CRT.
 
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For now, I am hesitant to give independence to concepts with the 'why' in the scans, since the scan says concepts are the "why something is", which means, for example, the concept of fire would be why fire is fire. If it said concepts were 'why something exists,' then it would mean their origin, the cause of their particulars existence thus predating them. The latter would still fall into the category of concepts being the essence of their particulars.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
For now, I am hesitant to give independence to concepts with the 'why' in the scans, since the scan says concepts are the "why something is", which means, for example, the concept of fire would be why fire is fire. If it said concepts were 'why something exists,' then it would mean their origin, the cause of their particulars existence thus predating them. The latter would still fall into the category of concepts being the essence of their particulars.
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The main scan for having to not be limited by just the particulars is primarily for the concepts endlessly comprehensive (always one greater level of understanding so there cant just be a random cut off point) and inherently boundless nature, while that would just be support.
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Here are some random scans about various concept stuff. And it includes stuff like concepts of space and time etc.


And concepts are also literally just logic itself as laws govern concepts (logic).
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Interesting. The time and space portion seems fine.

So these fundamental concepts are the essence and source of the world as opposed to just coming with the world being composed of those?
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
The main scan for having to not be limited by just the particulars is primarily for the concepts endlessly comprehensive (always one greater level of understanding so there cant just be a random cut off point) and inherently boundless nature, while that would just be support.
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How complex. After understanding the reason, then I agree with the crt.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but this doesn’t make sense? Unless they are type 3, concepts inherently are supposed have range of all reality, unless you are trying to get a specific range for conceptual manipulation for a character?

Also everything below 1-A is quantifiable. Low 1-A concepts doesn’t really make sense in regards to the tier system. They’re all on the same level of reality unless its 1-A and above.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Correct me if I am wrong but this doesn’t make sense? Unless they are type 3, concepts inherently are supposed have range of all reality, unless you are trying to get a specific range for conceptual manipulation for a character?

Also everything below 1-A is quantifiable. Low 1-A concepts doesn’t really make sense in regards to the tier system. They’re all on the same level of reality unless its 1-A and above.
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Concepts can be low 1-A as in they span all possible instantiations (range). No low 1-A AP is gonna come from this unless someone is shown to completely master concepts of space and time, and can convert that into direct power rather than abstract authority (i doubt it).
 
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