Gregory fights a woman (Lauren (Slender: The Eight Pages) vs Gregory (FNAF))

[AThe1412]

Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle. Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

And... Nothing.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

This is disrespectfully condescending and I think you know it to be honest.

I’m not “panicking”. I’m pointing out flawed logic and if you’re gonna approach it like that I don’t think this debate is worth having lol

Does unintentionally being condescending count? I can get tone deaf at times. Regardless, apologies.

Also you do realize that attacking a proxy is the equivalent of trying to attack a bear, right? Of course she wouldn't even try that, but here she has no reason to believe that the small chidl is a Proxy or something similar.

And attacking a bear with whatever you have at hand is also a notable tactic. And that's assuming you know what the bear's behavior is. Lauren knew very well the proxies were going to mess her up. You can (if memory serves correctly) survive many attacks from Kate during Into the Abyss and for some reason Lauren straight up doesn't try to pry Kate off her or bonk her with her flashlight despite time to gather common sense and defend herself.

I mean, I don't think Gregory being a proxy or whether Lauren would beat up a child with her flashlight first thing is going to matter long term. The main thing here is Lauren will try to incap/flashlight beat him long term and Gregory will try to stun her into incap mode in the grand scheme of things.

And... Nothing.

The idea came from the fact Lauren was willing to try to win the battle ("In character, but will attempt to win the battle"). Even if Lauren didn't want to kill Gregory, why not attempt to restrain, incap or injure-incap him? That would be a soldier's first thought when trying to subdue a child.

 

[Jackythejack]

Wtf do you mean nothing. I gave you the win conditions and where it said “she is going to try and win this fight”

How else do you expect her to win besides hitting this child?

 

[AThe1412]

The idea came from the fact Lauren was willing to try to win the battle ("In character, but will attempt to win the battle"). Even if Lauren didn't want to kill Gregory, why not attempt to restrain, incap or injure-incap him? That would be a soldier's first thought when trying to subdue a child.

Exactly!

Wtf do you mean nothing. I gave you the win conditions and where it said “she is going to try and win this fight”

How else do you expect her to win besides hitting this child?

We just told you how.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Wtf do you mean nothing. I gave you the win conditions and where it said “she is going to try and win this fight”

How else do you expect her to win besides hitting this child?

Technically, Lauren could use her size advantage to disarm Gregory and restrain him, effectively removing the threat of potential harm from a child. If Lauren still wants to hurt him without killing him, she could also overpower Gregory and break his legs.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

As much as I like debating in real time, I have college and other hobby stuff to do. I'm nocturnal for my job. Later!

 

[Jackythejack]

Exactly!

We just told you how.

that involves hitting him

 

[Jackythejack]

Anyways inflicting a seizure is not a valid wincon and even if it is it’s so horribly inconsistent that he cant win off of it.

His strategy would literally be stopped by Laura closing her eyes or just sitting down. 9-C durability; he cannot hurt her. Even if she lays on the ground for 30 seconds.

We had semantic arguments about SBA of all things but none of it addresses the argument that a seizure isn’t a valid wincon because it won’t incapacitate her for 24 hours-

 

[OrangeFR]

My vote is still with Lauren

 

[Overlord775]

Does unintentionally being condescending count? I can get tone deaf at times. Regardless, apologies.

And attacking a bear with whatever you have at hand is also a notable tactic. And that's assuming you know what the bear's behavior is. Lauren knew very well the proxies were going to mess her up. You can (if memory serves correctly) survive many attacks from Kate during Into the Abyss and for some reason Lauren straight up doesn't try to pry Kate off her or bonk her with her flashlight despite time to gather common sense and defend herself.

you do realize she was:

1. Jumped
2. By someone physically stronger than her
3. While completly terrified and actively having her mind tempered with

A flashlight is not really gonna do much there.

Also I find it funny that the supposed wincon is the boy getting her to stare at him so he can shoot her in the eyes, when whole point of the Slendergames is don't look directly at the threat

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Anyways inflicting a seizure is not a valid wincon and even if it is it’s so horribly inconsistent that he cant win off of it.

We had semantic arguments about SBA of all things but none of it addresses the argument that a seizure isn’t a valid wincon because it won’t incapacitate her for 24 hours-

The reason why I tried to calm stuff down is because your side was giving negative vibes. Like, look back at your own responses.

I'm also pretty sure Gregory is strong pound-by-pound considering he was able to shove Glamrock Chica backwards (effectively an adult-sized, mentallic entity). Gregory technically has a strength gap to shove her onto something sharp like a big stick. And since when has it been stated or proven in-canon that all the status effects wouldn't incap her for 24 hrs?

Also vvv

If speed gets unequalized, Gregory can theoretically play hit and run until Lauren gets exhausted thanks to his higher stamina and speed.

^^^

That gives me an idea, BFR. If either opponent deters the other long enough, the other could flee or leave Oakside Park while the battle is ongoing.

His strategy would literally be stopped by Laura closing her eyes or just sitting down. 9-C durability; he cannot hurt her. Even if she lays on the ground for 30 seconds.

That's not addressing the fact it's incredibly hard to see at night (especially with Gregory hiding in plain sight in the shadows), and Gregory already has experience stealthing adults. How would she time stuff right to aim-dodge (or aimclose her eyes) against someone way too good at hide and seek?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Battle takes place in Oakside Park at night. Gregory starts out of sight. Speed unequalized.

Changed match conditions since the debate is stabilizing slightly

 

[Jackythejack]

The reason why I tried to calm stuff down is because your side was giving negative vibes. Like, look back at your own responses.

It’s because the arguments I’m receiving feel like they’re ongoing everything I’m saying.

And since when has it been stated or proven in-canon that all the status effects wouldn't incap her for 24 hrs?

You prove the positive. Prove to me that he can incapacitate her for 24 hours with a fazblaster. I don’t have to prove a negative.

How would she time stuff right to aim-dodge (or aimclose her eyes) against someone way too good at hide and seek?

This is…the most insane statement. It’s not like she had to time it perfectly so the light doesn’t hit her eyes or something?

Just like…cover your eyes?? With your hand?? Even partially? I can do this with my phone flashlight right now as we speak and it’s not even like that inconvenient.

 

[Jackythejack]

That gives me an idea, BFR. If either opponent deters the other long enough, the other could flee or leave Oakside Park while the battle is ongoing.

SBA states this can’t happen.

“Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.”

Gregory has none of the features listed. Willfully running away cannot happen in a thread like this.

 

[Overlord775]

Changed match conditions since the debate is stabilizing slightly

You know, repeatedly changing the match condictions to give the character you are rooting for an advantage is enough to invalidate a match

 

[AThe1412]

You know, repeatedly changing the match condictions to give the character you are rooting for an advantage is enough to invalidate a match

Stomp matches are also invalid and he's only changing the conditions to make the match fair since you claimed that it's a stomp.

 

[Jackythejack]

Stomp matches are also invalid and he's only changing the conditions to make the match fair since you claimed that it's a stomp.

Changing the conditions doesn’t change that he really doesn’t have a wincon.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Stomp matches are also invalid and he's only changing the conditions to make the match fair since you claimed that it's a stomp.

Doi.

I also find it ironic that in some cases people still adhere to their position of "thread being a stomp" even when I address some of their concerns. I thought the other side would be happy but I was wrong.

Just like…cover your eyes?? With your hand?? Even partially? I can do this with my phone flashlight right now as we speak and it’s not even like that inconvenient.

I know like my side is acting like the biggest idiots in the world but, common sense and logic 101 also states it's very difficult to see a child aiming at you in the dark (especially in the forest). Try to navigate around your house at night with a friend hiding with the lights off and curtains closed for one minute and see if you can spot a human figure, and play hide and seek with your friend for a moment. Now add a flash camera in the mix with your friend in hide and seek.

Even then, you would also need to see your enemy first if you want to apprehend them (sight is one of our most important senses). And partially covering your eyes also gives Gregory an opening.

You prove the positive. Prove to me that he can incapacitate her for 24 hours with a fazblaster. I don’t have to prove a negative.

Burden of proof fallacy (looks like we're even for now). I guess I'll have to settle this using your own arguments since the opposition started the arguments earlier first vvv

Isn’t Vanny like…a person?

If it doesn’t work on her then why are we assuming it’ll work on everyone else?

If the one human it’s been used on doesn’t get a seizure over time I don’t think it’s a very reliable or consistent win condition.

Like yeah a flashlight could also cause seizures if shined at someone’s face repeatedly I’m not going to give anyone with a flashlight status effect inducements and try to debate based off that? It’s literally just a warning you have to give on toys that it could cause blindness or seizures if shined in someone’s eyes.

I just don’t think this is the slam dunk you guys make it out to be.

I'll address the flashlight argument here first since it's bugging you guys. The canon dialogue implies that you need to rub your eyes with soap and water and profused blinking for safety reasons, and literally one shot to a non possessed human's eyes does actually blind them for several seconds and you could risk waiting the effects out. The fazblaster is not like giving a person photoepliepsy with a flashlight.

The fazblaster works on Vannessa when she's not possessed by Glitchtrap. Lauren doesn't have supernatural mind influence unless you count her nulled Slender sickness for SBA purposes, and even then, that's not the same as a possessed Vanny. False equivalence.

And didn't the opposition also say Gregory could win by hit-and-run tactics?

If there's more to what I say or if I missed something, feel free to criticize.

SBA states this can’t happen.

“Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.”

Gregory has none of the features listed. Willfully running away cannot happen in a thread like this.

I never was fully concrete on either opponent to run away willingfully, technically either of them could leave the boundaries of the park first during their goose chase unintentionally and it's GG for either one that exits first. Their motive is to win, not stay within the boundaries of the park.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

It’s because the arguments I’m receiving feel like they’re ongoing everything I’m saying.

I do apologize for the condescending argument earlier, I mean I didn't mean I'm right, you're wrong. The fact I that I acknowledge our circular arguments in my responses means you're making excellent points.

We can debate for a while and we can always choose to ditch this thread or call staff anyways. This forum is just for fun to begin with.

You know, repeatedly changing the match condictions to give the character you are rooting for an advantage is enough to invalidate a match

Same thing I said to Jacky in my reply here with you.

 

[Jackythejack]

and literally one shot to a non possessed human's eyes does actually blind them for several seconds and you could risk waiting the effects out. The fazblaster is not like giving a person photoepliepsy with a flashlight.

The fazblaster works on Vannessa when she's not possessed by Glitchtrap. Lauren doesn't have supernatural mind influence unless you count her nulled Slender sickness for SBA purposes, and even then, that's not the same as a possessed Vanny. False equivalence.

Dude I’m gonna be honest I don’t count glitching to be able to shoot Vanessa with the blaster when you’re normally never in this position to like, mean much. I don’t think we can use glitches to qualify things in vs thread otherwise Mario would be backwards long jumping all over the place and gaining infinite speed.

I’m gonna be honest I think it’d be really easy to see someone in the dark if they shine a flashlight at you. Or even a gun. You’ll still acknowledge that the light is coming from somewhere, and still be able to go towards that source of light.

Also I gotta stress I did the math and Lauren is like 8 and a half times more durable than Gregory that already constitutes by wiki standards that he can’t hurt her (Gregory’s baseline 60 joules to Lauren’s 495 joules).

Hit and run isn’t gonna work.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Dude I’m gonna be honest I don’t count glitching to be able to shoot Vanessa with the blaster when you’re normally never in this position to like, mean much. I don’t think we can use glitches to qualify things in vs thread otherwise Mario would be backwards long jumping all over the place and gaining infinite speed.

I’m gonna be honest I think it’d be really easy to see someone in the dark if they shine a flashlight at you. Or even a gun. You’ll still acknowledge that the light is coming from somewhere, and still be able to go towards that source of light.

Also I gotta stress I did the math and Lauren is like 8 and a half times more durable than Gregory that already constitutes by wiki standards that he can’t hurt her (Gregory’s baseline 60 joules to Lauren’s 495 joules).

Hit and run isn’t gonna work.

And, logic 101 also states just because we haven't seen a human get shot in canon, doesn't mean getting shot without knowing the gun before hand won't cause permanent effects or stunning as implied by the wash with soap and water statement. Lauren doesn't know of the gun until she experiences it's effects for the first time.

Wait. Quick question in case I forgot you said it. How would Lauren apprehend or hit Gregory if she has to close her eyes 90% of the time at night in the middle of the woods against a faster, smaller opponent?

 

[Jackythejack]

Lauren doesn't know of the gun until she experiences it's effects for the first time.

Okay. She gets blinded by it once and then understands she has to keep her eyes mostly covered the entire time. This is even assuming that Gregory is some crackshot who can hit super long distances.

You can keep your eyes mostly covered while still seeing your environment.

You’re not addressing the fact that he can’t hurt her. He really doesn’t have a wincon. The only way Lauren would get tired and pass out or smth is if she literally is just too dumb to not know when to stop running at the kid constantly.

 

[Jackythejack]

And, logic 101 also states just because we haven't seen a human get shot in canon, doesn't mean getting shot without knowing the gun before hand won't cause permanent effects or stunning as implied by the wash with soap and water statement.

But we DON’T know. We never see it. It could just be a warning statement dude.

Like idk what to tell you man warnings like this exist in real life all the time, sometimes for good reasons and sometimes not.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Okay. She gets blinded by it once and then understands she has to keep her eyes mostly covered the entire time. This is even assuming that Gregory is some crackshot who can hit super long distances.

You can keep your eyes mostly covered while still seeing your environment.

You’re not addressing the fact that he can’t hurt her. He really doesn’t have a wincon. The only way Lauren would get tired and pass out or smth is if she literally is just too dumb to not know when to stop running at the kid constantly.

Ok? then shoot near the area where there are cracks revealing the eyes. Even a person with a flashlight could do that. Lauren throughout the match isn't going to be running around moving her head like crazy making herself hard to hit if her vision is impaired by herself or Gregory.

That's literally the point of the match. I was looking for precedents and all and I thought "Hmmm... hax against a 9-C". And if this match doesn't work or gets closed, we all live and learn from our mistakes. No clue why everyone who disagrees with my side is still on this thread

But we DON’T know. We never see it. It could just be a warning statement dude.

Like idk what to tell you man warnings like this exist in real life all the time, sometimes for good reasons and sometimes not.

And? We work with what we do know. Warning signs generally are here because someone once upon a time was in or near an accident. In this case, it's because someone shot little Timmy in the face and little Timmy got hurt.

The warning is there to defend against shooting near/at the eyes, that's pretty much the bright as day reasoning in a warning you insist is vague. And you never elaborated how vague an occam's razor/logic 101 conclusion like "wash with soap and water, then blink profusely" would get, as it implies there's contaminants/effects in the light would permanently impair vision. If it's not a severe side effect to cause blindness in the first place, then there wouldn't be an instruction to wash the effects off.

 

[Jackythejack]

Ok? then shoot near the area where there are cracks revealing the eyes.

Now Gregory is some skilled marksman? I don’t think his laser tag gun is gonna do that. This is a silly argument.

Hmmm... hax against a 9-C

This is hardly even hax. It’s like, not effective in most cases. The only way she’d have a seizure is if she has epilepsy. Outside of that it’s just Not common. People go to raves all the time and people aren’t dropping dead from seizures unless they’re compeltely shitfaced drunk and high.

I feel like no matter what I say you’re just not gonna relent on this weird theory that doesn’t make much sense. It’s not like this thread is ever going to conclude anyways so idk why I bother.

I’ve dropped way too many arguments to keep arguing in circles like this. I’m done.

 

[Overlord775]

The warning is there to defend against shooting near/at the eyes, that's pretty much the bright as day reasoning in a warning you insist is vague. And you never elaborated how vague an occam's razor/logic 101 conclusion like "wash with soap and water, then blink profusely" would get, as it implies there's contaminants/effects in the light would permanently impair vision. If it's not a severe side effect to cause blindness in the first place, then there wouldn't be an instruction to wash the effects off.

That's pretty clearly to relieve inflamation in the eyes, caused by bright light exposure, not to remove "contaminants". I cannot fantom how you could interpret it as the light carrying something nasty in it.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I’ve dropped way too many arguments to keep arguing in circles like this. I’m done.

Respect. Your participation here is voluntary. You can rest your mind.

That's pretty clearly to relieve inflamation in the eyes, caused by bright light exposure, not to remove "contaminants". I cannot fantom how you could interpret it as the light carrying something nasty in it.

I thought there was going to be some giga Chad argument on how "X statement could also mean something else" since Jacky was on your team and mentioned stuff on the vague implying of IRL warning signs. And it's Freddy Fazbear entertainment in the future, that's my fallacy on why I suggested contaminant. Part of being a detective is suggesting possibilities and namely eliminating the more nonsensical ones.

And I never said Gregory was a skilled marksman hard enough to shoot Lauren, I meant shooting the light near the cracks of the hands. That's still going to impact her.

That technically brings stuff into Gregory since Lauren also doesn't know how to get rid of the inflammation and would be visually impaired for a lot of the match. But by precedent, Lauren still has the ability to partially cover her eyes despite the irritation. So...

Question, literally Jacky has opted out and this match is frustrating your party. Do you want us to ditch this thread and leave it in the dust?