Muzan vs Kaneki

[NikHelton]

Extrasensory Perception (Able to sense the presence of others and malicious intent, this can be used to differentiate humans and demons, determine how strong someone is to a certain extent

This does not give an exact value of how strong the enemy is and does not have a numerical equivalent. Muzan just knows that Kaneki is strong. But this is not enough for BFR.


Muzan is very arrogant and confident in his regeneration. He sees that Kaneki does not have Nichirin and Gletsinia, so he boldly attacks him, believing that Kaneki cannot kill him.

 

[NikHelton]

Ладно, ребята, сколько примерно времени пройдет, прежде чем эта песня разнесется по всей крепости, и в этот момент Музан решит просто нырнуть и оставить Канеки там?

Unfortunately for you, demons don't live that long

 

[Arkenis]

muzan can only sense demons not ghouls

What

 

[NikHelton]

Why x8?

Are you voting for Muzan or Kaneki?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This does not give an exact value of how strong the enemy is and does not have a numerical equivalent. Muzan just knows that Kaneki is strong. But this is not enough for BFR.


Muzan is very arrogant and confident in his regeneration. He sees that Kaneki does not have Nichirin and Gletsinia, so he boldly attacks him, believing that Kaneki cannot kill him.

So Muzan’s response to fighting a strong enemy is to job? The jobbing meta didn’t work the last time dude. Muzan is a known wuss that will do anything to survive at all cost. Why would he job all of a sudden when he didn’t in the series and didn’t do it in the last 3 matchups

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Literally the discussion shouldn’t even be about whether or not muzan will use bfr. The discussion is about when muzan will decide to leave kaneki there and get cooked

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Unfortunately for you, demons don't live that long

Muzan has type 1 immortality while ghouls dont

 

[Robo432343]

So Muzan’s response to fighting a strong enemy is to job? The jobbing meta didn’t work the last time dude. Muzan is a known wuss that will do anything to survive at all cost. Why would he job all of a sudden when he didn’t in the series and didn’t do it in the last 3 matchups

muzan is the strongest demon to exist he should fight

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

muzan is the strongest demon to exist he should fight

That’s why there’s this

Literally the discussion shouldn’t even be about whether or not muzan will use bfr. The discussion is about when muzan will decide to leave kaneki there and get cooked

 

[Robo432343]

what if kaneki kills muzan in the ic

 

[NikHelton]

So Muzan’s response to fighting a strong enemy is to job? The jobbing meta didn’t work the last time dude. Muzan is a known wuss that will do anything to survive at all cost. Why would he job all of a sudden when he didn’t in the series and didn’t do it in the last 3 matchups

I didn't really notice that it helped him against Yoriichi.

Muzan is cautious against enemies because they have things that can kill a demon. The only thing that kills a demon. Otherwise, demons are immortal. Show me how Muzan ran away from an enemy who didn't have Nichirin and when the sun didn't start to rise.

The experience of the character in his verse is also important. Muzan doesn't know that Kaneki can completely destroy his body. The most powerful destructive attack of the KNYverse only tore off Muzan's limbs. Muzan feels that Kaneki doesn't have Nichirin. So he confidently moves forward.

The fact that people from the previous 2 matchups bought into this only means that they did not go into depth analysis.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

 

[Robo432343]

muzan will fight kaneki in ic

 

[Viott]

Are you voting for Muzan or Kaneki?

Kaneki

He has the advantage in Ap, Speed, and Ls. I don't see any reason for Muzan to win.

 

[NikHelton]

It's really funny how people are actively swallowing all the speculation about BS as if it wasn't complete nonsense and how far this joke has gone.

It looks like this match should be declared invalid due to the inability of one of the parties to provide adequate arguments.

 

[Arkenis]

Can someone tell me Kaneki's win cons

 

[NikHelton]

Can someone tell me Kaneki's win cons

Speed and AP

His Kagune wings will disperse Muzan's 8-B body and High 7-C neck will be destroyed due to the x5.2 difference

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I didn't really notice that it helped him against Yoriichi.

Muzan is cautious against enemies because they have things that can kill a demon. The only thing that kills a demon. Otherwise, demons are immortal. Show me how Muzan ran away from an enemy who didn't have Nichirin and when the sun didn't start to rise.

The experience of the character in his verse is also important. Muzan doesn't know that Kaneki can completely destroy his body. The most powerful destructive attack of the KNYverse only tore off Muzan's limbs. Muzan feels that Kaneki doesn't have Nichirin. So he confidently moves forward.

The fact that people from the previous 2 matchups bought into this only means that they did not go into depth analysis.

Yoriichi resists extrasensory perception for Muzan to know how strong he is. Muzan also never had one person at all that ever contested him or almost killed him other than Yoriichi

“Show me how Muzan ran away from an enemy who didn't have Nichirin and when the sun didn't start to rise.”
Alright Nik show me a scene where Muzan didn’t start off a fight with BFR. Hint: His first on screen fight was a BFR. (Also there’s humans in the series that have used a blood demon art lol). Also Muzan’s extransensory perception will literally let him know Kaneki is abnormal .

Also they didn’t go in depth???? Muzan Vs Sukuna literally had 14 pages combined with Makima Vs Muzan have 12 pages alone You are the only one insistent on Muzan going out of character and jobbing out of 26 pages and 50 votes. If you are heavily relying on Muzan to job then that’s all the more reason that Muzan would win.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Again, this SAME jobbing argument was being used so that Muzan will STAND STILL and let sukuna’s divine flames one shot and obliterate him. Why are we insistent on taking Muzan out of character for the second time

 

[Robo432343]

SBA assumes muzan is willing to kill

 

[Arkenis]

Speed and AP

His Kagune wings will disperse Muzan's 8-B body and High 7-C neck will be destroyed due to the x5.2 difference

How is this a wincon?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

SBA assumes muzan is willing to kill

This doesn’t prevent BFR win cons. Sba also didn’t prevent Deku from refusing to harm a character younger than Eri in his fight earlier ago.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

How is this a wincon?

Nah it’s a win con for Muzan. He’s giving Muzan all the more reasons to leave kaneki cooked in the infinity fortress

 

[NikHelton]

Yoriichi resists extrasensory perception for Muzan to know how strong he is. Muzan also never had one person at all that ever contested him or almost killed him other than Yoriichi

Bro, that's not how it works. Muzan's ES is just too weak and unreliable.

“Show me how Muzan ran away from an enemy who didn't have Nichirin and when the sun didn't start to rise.”
Alright Nik show me a scene where Muzan didn’t start off a fight with BFR. Hint: His first on screen fight was a BFR. (Also there’s humans in the series that have used a blood demon art lol). Also Muzan’s extransensory perception will literally let him know Kaneki is abnormal .

This was the moment when his regeneration was weakened and a crowd of people with the only weapon that could kill him was running towards him.

I would appreciate it if you presented the full picture in this thread, and not just the part that looks the most successful

Also they didn’t go in depth???? Muzan Vs Sukuna literally had 14 pages combined with Makima Vs Muzan have 12 pages alone You are the only one insistent on Muzan going out of character and jobbing out of 26 pages and 50 votes. If you are heavily relying on Muzan to job then that’s all the more reason that Muzan would win.

I'll just pretend I didn't hear that you put canon manga fights and vsb matches on the same level

 

[NikHelton]

How is this a wincon?

Kaneki brings Muzan's body to a state where he has nothing to recover from.
High-mid regen will not recover from a pool of blood

There are no more interpretations in this message

 

[Arkenis]

Kaneki brings Muzan's body to a state where he has nothing to recover from.
High-mid regen will not recover from a pool of blood

There are no more interpretations in this message

I guess? Does Kaneki start off with a wide attack to do that though? If not Muzan's bio hax should neg before Kaneki decides to use aoe.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bro, that's not how it works. Muzan's ES is just too weak and unreliable.

This was the moment when his regeneration was weakened and a crowd of people with the only weapon that could kill him was running towards him.

I would appreciate it if you presented the full picture in this thread, and not just the part that looks the most successful

I'll just pretend I didn't hear that you put canon manga fights and vsb matches on the same level

That’s not how it works???? Yoriichi literally resists extrasensory perception bro

So you’re totally fine trying to run an argument where you take Muzan completely out of character to job against Kaneki but you’ll do whatever it takes to explain why his only on screen match was to BFR them into his territories where he has all the advantages?

The canon manga fight shows Muzan opening with BFR. Every single muzan fight has him literally opening with bfr and fighting his opponent there. No matter what you say will change the fact that Muzan is a character that will do ANYTHING to survive. You’re arguing him to be out of character and wouldn’t fight his opponent in a domain that literally gives him every single advantage to win

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I just want to emphasize how it does not look good at all for the supporting character if the win con for your supporting character is to take the opposing character out of character to job

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I guess? Does Kaneki start off with a wide attack to do that though? If not Muzan's bio hax should neg before Kaneki decides to use aoe.

insert argument about how Kaneki will go for the kill frame 1 while Muzan does everything in his power to sell the fight

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

@NikHelton why are you asking every single mod whether or not bfr is a legitimate win con. This is the BFR page dude

BFR is short for Battle Field Removal, referring to one opponent forcing the other outside of their area of combat for a long enough period of time that the battle cannot be continued. As long as they cannot return from wherever they have been transported to within a certain amount of time - a week, going by Standard Battle Assumptions - victory is reached through BFR.

 

[Kavopaco]

Ill vote Muzan for now

 

[NikHelton]

I guess? Does Kaneki start off with a wide attack to do that though? If not Muzan's bio hax should neg before Kaneki decides to use aoe.

Kaneki sees that his simple attacks don't work and goes for it.
Muzan's biohax doesn't work and I explained it above. Kaneki resists cellular biomanip and cellular biohax.
And the difference in speed and skills simply won't let Muzan use his skills.

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Muzan FRA

 

[NikHelton]

@NikHelton почему ты спрашиваешь каждого модератора, является ли bfr законным win con. Это страница BFR, чувак

More emphasis on BS. I don't find this argumentation convincing and have reached out to TM to give their opinion.

Do you find anything wrong with my action?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

More emphasis on BS. I don't find this argumentation convincing and have reached out to TM to give their opinion.

Do you find anything wrong with my action?

You’re asking them if BFR is a valid win con

 

[NikHelton]

That’s not how it works???? Yoriichi literally resists extrasensory perception bro

So you’re totally fine trying to run an argument where you take Muzan completely out of character to job against Kaneki but you’ll do whatever it takes to explain why his only on screen match was to BFR them into his territories where he has all the advantages?

The canon manga fight shows Muzan opening with BFR. Every single muzan fight has him literally opening with bfr and fighting his opponent there. No matter what you say will change the fact that Muzan is a character that will do ANYTHING to survive. You’re arguing him to be out of character and wouldn’t fight his opponent in a domain that literally gives him every single advantage to win

Let's not forget that Kaneki still won't make it to IC thanks to the extra foothold and a much better LS

 

[NikHelton]

You’re asking them if BFR is a valid win con

I'm reposting Robo's question, which seems logical

Muzan never locked enemies in IC to wait for them to die of old age. Otherwise, he would have just sent Hashira's and KO to IC, took all the Upper Moons with him, and waited for the hunters to die.
Do I need to say that he didn't do that?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Let's not forget that Kaneki still won't make it to IC thanks to the extra foothold and a much better LS

You’re acting like the gateway only spawns on the ground and that he can only open it once. It can spawn any direction.

The infinity fortress gateway isn’t even just a square hole either

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I'm reposting Robo's question, which seems logical

Muzan never locked enemies in IC to wait for them to die of old age. Otherwise, he would have just sent Hashira's and KO to IC, took all the Upper Moons with him, and waited for the hunters to die.
Do I need to say that he didn't do that?

You’re comparing duds that are extreme diffing the likes of upper moon 3 to the guy stronger than Muzan dude. Why is this being used as an argument.

This is how muzan is being portrayed Muzan. “Oh wow the guy is way stronger than faster than me. I should totally keep fighting and let myself get killed so I could job the fight”. We’re talking about the same dude who hid for 500 years after the greatest whooping he has ever received. Muzan is a coward and will do anything to survive.

 

[NikHelton]

You’re acting like the gateway only spawns on the ground and that he can only open it once. It can spawn any direction.

The infinity fortress gateway isn’t even just a square hole either

Cool, Kaneki is still hanging on with his kagune and not falling down.

His reaction is enough to do it