Muzan vs Kaneki

[NikHelton]

You’re comparing duds that are extreme diffing the likes of upper moon 3 to the guy stronger than Muzan dude. Why is this being used as an argument.

You're constructing a hypothetical situation based on something that never happened. I'm describing a canonical situation and character behavior.

This is how muzan is being portrayed Muzan. “Oh wow the guy is way stronger than faster than me. I should totally keep fighting and let myself get killed so I could job the fight”. We’re talking about the same dude who hid for 500 years after the greatest whooping he has ever received. Muzan is a coward and will do anything to survive.

You still need to prove that Muzan can be so scared of Kaneki.

Yoriichi bypassed Muzan's ES and never showed it again. It's not enough for resist.
In turn, Muzan has not shown that he can determine the exact level of the enemy in front of him.

Kaneki also has ES, with which he can sense danger and determine the strength of an enemy he sees for the first time. He can also start with an AOE and end the match

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Cool, Kaneki is still hanging on with his kagune and not falling down.

His reaction is enough to do it

The guy massively upscales his speed value from a base mitsuri form season 3. The guy also successfully trapped the entire group who all have instinctive reactions that can avoid attacks they cannot perceive and extrasensory perception. Some of them having precognition . Yet not one of them sensed, predicted, or noticed they’re in the infinity fortress.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

You're constructing a hypothetical situation based on something that never happened. I'm describing a canonical situation and character behavior.

You still need to prove that Muzan can be so scared of Kaneki.

Yoriichi bypassed Muzan's ES and never showed it again. It's not enough for resist.
In turn, Muzan has not shown that he can determine the exact level of the enemy in front of him.

Kaneki also has ES, with which he can sense danger and determine the strength of an enemy he sees for the first time. He can also start with an AOE and end the match

You’re describing an in character thing he would do? He dipped and hid for 500 years against a guy stronger than him bro.

Extransensory perception that lets him sense bloodlust, malicious intent, and how strong an opponent is.

Never showed it again? Yeah Duh. They fought once and muzan hid for 500 years.

Doesn’t matter if Kaneki has ES when Muzan BFR’d the 7 hashiras and 1 tanjiro who all have extra sensory perception, instinctive reaction, and tanjiro with precognition without them all noticing. Btw you already said Kaneki doesn’t start off with aoe attacks so gg

 

[NikHelton]

The guy massively upscales his speed value from a base mitsuri form season 3. The guy also successfully trapped the entire group who all have instinctive reactions that can avoid attacks they cannot perceive and extrasensory perception. Some of them having precognition . Yet not one of them sensed, predicted, or noticed they’re in the infinity fortress.

Kaneki Kakuja EoS > Kaneki EoS > Kaneki OEY Kakuja > Suzuya Arata >>>> Kurona ~> Suzuya base = Kaneki OEK base > Kaneki Black Kakuja > 8k mach feat

Your chain doesn't have clear numerical amplifiers, so the initial difference of x3.8 takes precedence

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Kaneki FRA

 

[Foriaa]

Kaneki FRA

 

[NikHelton]

Doesn’t matter if Kaneki has ES when Muzan BFR’d the 7 hashiras and 1 tanjiro who all have extra sensory perception, instinctive reaction, and tanjiro with precognition without them all noticing.

Kaneki also has instinctive reaction, ES and analytical prediction. But the most important thing that distinguishes this is the superiority in speed by almost 4 times and the ability to escape from BFR.

Btw you already said Kaneki doesn’t start off with aoe attacks so gg

Kaneki only needs to see that Muzan regenerates severed limbs to tear him apart. This was the simplest tactic against ghouls like Noro, who also had abnormal regeneration

 

[NikHelton]

@Robo432343
Are you counting votes?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Kaneki Kakuja EoS > Kaneki EoS > Kaneki OEY Kakuja > Suzuya Arata >>>> Kurona ~> Suzuya base = Kaneki OEK base > Kaneki Black Kakuja > 8k mach feat

Your chain doesn't have clear numerical amplifiers, so the initial difference of x3.8 takes precedence

So a stomp. Because if that’s true with how the scaling chain is that much higher with kny’s with kny’s being smaller with no numerical amplifier, muzan just gets statued in unequalized speed and has no chance to fight back.

The only reason why speed equalized was removed because @Robo432343 was under the impression that muzan doesn’t get stomped by a speed gap and that the speed gap was realistically smaller than 3x. Am I getting this right.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

So a stomp

Wow, a JJK( EDIT : I meant KNY, I am stupid sorry)/MHA lost, now is a stomp...

 

[NikHelton]

Wow, a JJK/MHA lost, now is a stomp...

AHAHAHAHAAHHA
MY BRO

 

[NikHelton]

So a stomp. Because if that’s true with how the scaling chain is that much higher with kny’s with kny’s being smaller with no numerical amplifier, muzan just gets statued in unequalized speed and has no chance to fight back.

Wow, where did the massive upscale from 2k max, mark acceleration, TW and other techniques go?))

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

AHAHAHAHAAHHA
MY BRO

Again you’re arguing a literally scaling chain that would blitz muzan to hell and back without fighting back when @Robo432343 unequalized the speed under the impression that muzan wouldn’t get speed stomped

Wow, where did the massive upscale from 2k max, mark acceleration, TW and other techniques go?))

Muzan doesn’t have mark tw or breathing techniques? You said it yourself, KNY’s speed scaling is smaller and unquantifiable than tg’s so it’ll be a speed stomp

Wow, a JJK( EDIT : I meant KNY, I am stupid sorry)/MHA lost, now is a stomp...

you declared multiple Deku matchups as a stomp because Deku will blitz his opponent to hell and back without the opponent being capable of fighting back (unquantifiable blitz amps btw). Why does it suddenly not apply here?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

you declared multiple Deku matchups as a stomp because Deku will blitz his opponent to hell and back without the opponent being capable of fighting back (unquantifiable blitz amps btw). Why does it suddenly not apply here?

Being 3 times faster is now a blitz?
Being 3 times faster is an advantage, blitzing is literally making the other guy not being able to react at all

Edit: but if kaneki is 3 times faster+ blitz scaling then sure, but I though Muzan also have blitz scaling

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Being 3 times faster is now a blitz?
Being 3 times faster is an advantage, blitzing is literally making the other guy not being able to react at all

Nik is literally saying it’s a 3.8x speed gap bare minimum on top of a massive speed scaling chain compared to KNY dude. You also said it yourself that that Deku cannot blitz someone that is even 1.2x faster than him due to an unquantifiable blitz amp. Why are we suddenly changing up for this match

Also this thread exists

Speed in order to blitz

I dunno where to put this, so I'll just put it here. I see that the Speed Blitz page does not have a value in order to classify it as a "blitz", but it does state that it is "the act of one attacking their opponent before they are capable of perceiving or reacting to them" I wonder if I could...

vsbattles.com

 

[NikHelton]

Muzan doesn’t have mark tw or breathing techniques? You said it yourself, KNY’s speed scaling is smaller and unquantifiable than tg’s so it’ll be a speed stomp

Sick Muzan scales as much faster than users who have such chain upscale. Healthy Muzan is faster

 

[Epyriel]

They literally landed where there was no ground

Don’t know much about Kaneki, but this is incorrect. Many of the Hashira were dash straight towards Muzan and wouldn’t have touched the ground at all before reaching him, yet got near instantly shunted through the gateway regardless.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Read the edit Castorice my beloved

If Muzan is the one slower and has his own speed amps then the gap should be relative the same as the beginning, x4

if Muzan has no amps then is indeed a stomp, Kaneki blitzes with 4x speed advantage+ scaling chain

And the thread owner says if you are almost 7 time faster you then speed blitz, so a mere x4 is an advantage, Muzan is the slower one, Kaneki the faster, Kaneki is not violating any rule for being faster

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Sick Muzan scales as much faster than users who have such chain upscale. Healthy Muzan is faster

Can you quantify it. You said it yourself, TG has a way bigger speed scaling from Mach 8k to Mach 2000 kny with kny being unquantifiable. You can not be switching up now and trying to give KNY the benefit of the doubt now after you just realized you argued a stomp match

As I said before, Robo ONLY unequalized the speed the under the assumption that the speed gap was lower than 3x and that muzan wouldn’t get speed stomped.

 

[NikHelton]

Don’t know much about Kaneki, but this is incorrect. Many of the Hashira were dash straight towards Muzan and wouldn’t have touched the ground at all before reaching him, yet got near instantly shunted through the gateway regardless.

Kaneki simply clings to the ground nearby with his tentacles. His Class T will not let him get sucked in.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Read the edit Castorice my beloved

If Muzan is the one slower and has his own speed amps then the gap should be relative the same as the beginning, x4

if Muzan has no amps then is indeed a stomp, Kaneki blitzes with 4x speed advantage+ scaling chain

And the thread says if you are almost 7 time faster you then speed blitz, so a mere x4 is an advantage, Muzan is the slower one, Kaneki the faster, Kaneki is not violating any rule for being faster

Muzan literally doesn’t have a speed reaction amp dude . He’s not the hashiras.

Also that thread talking about 7x is referring to the AP one shot gap dude. The thread was mostly saying 3-4X. We’re literally discussing to the point that kaneki massively upscale a Mach 8000/3.8x speed gap with a bigger speed chain than unquantifiable kny.

Why are we still trying to defend a blitz stomp while being quick to shut down threads due to the same exact reasoning as this

 

[Epyriel]

Kaneki Kakuja EoS > Kaneki EoS > Kaneki OEY Kakuja > Suzuya Arata >>>> Kurona ~> Suzuya base = Kaneki OEK base > Kaneki Black Kakuja > 8k mach feat

Your chain doesn't have clear numerical amplifiers, so the initial difference of x3.8 takes precedence

How many of these are actual blitz gaps?

 

[NikHelton]

Can you quantify it. You said it yourself, TG has a way bigger speed scaling from Mach 8k to Mach 2000 kny with kny being unquantifiable. You can not be switching up now and trying to give KNY the benefit of the doubt now after you just realized you argued a stomp match

As I said before, Robo ONLY unequalized the speed the under the assumption that the speed gap was lower than 3x and that muzan wouldn’t get speed stomped.

x4 gap still not enough for unfair blitz

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Muzan literally doesn’t have a speed reaction amp dude . He’s not the hashiras.

Also that thread talking about 7x is referring to the AP one shot gap dude. The thread was mostly saying 3-4X. We’re literally discussing to the point that kaneki massively upscale a Mach 8000/3.8x speed gap with a bigger speed chain than unquantifiable kny.

Like I said, if Muzan has no amps then Kaneki with x4+ blitz scaling= lmao

If that is not the case then is technically fair

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

x4 gap still not enough for unfair blitz

You literally said kaneki upscales way larger than that with an even bigger speed chain. The thread I sent was literally talking about how a 3-4X speed gap is a blitz. If @Kazuma_kuwabara is quick to declare a stomp for unquantifiable speed blitz due to them being unable to fight back then this is a stomp with a 4x. We can’t even assume an unquantifiable perception blitz amp is a 2x multiplier yet we’re trying to defend this stomp?

I’ll say this again. @Robo432343 ONLY unequalized the speed under the assumption that muzan wouldn’t get speed stomped and that the gap was less than 3x

 

[Epiccheev]

Kaneki FRA

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

@Kazuma_kuwabara is quick to declare a stomp for unquantifiable speed blitz due to them being unable to fight back then this is a stomp with a 4x.

Exactly, this is a stomp, we have to defend Muzan

I am talking seriously, but in this case is just Kaneki winning via speed
with speed equalized he still wins though, so gg

 

[NikHelton]

Like I said, if Muzan has no amps then Kaneki with x4+ blitz scaling= lmao

If that is not the case then is technically fair

hat's not quite true. There is a blitz scaling chain between Muzan and Mitsuri's base and Sukuna is ahead of these characters.

That's enough to keep the match from being unfair and enough for Kaneki to have an advantage

 

[Kavopaco]

Wait so now this is a stomp close this lame ahh match then

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Next time use Kaneki against a real opponent, JJK and KYN are fodder

 

[Epiccheev]

OOOOOOOOOOHHHMMMM

 

[Kavopaco]

Next time use Kaneki against a real opponent, JJK and KYN are fodder

Use deku for the millionth time, and see who blitzes frfr

 

[NikHelton]

You literally said kaneki upscales way larger than that with an even bigger speed chain. The thread I sent was literally talking about how a 3-4X speed gap is a blitz. If @Kazuma_kuwabara is quick to declare a stomp for unquantifiable speed blitz due to them being unable to fight back then this is a stomp with a 4x. We can’t even assume an unquantifiable perception blitz amp is a 2x multiplier yet we’re trying to defend this stomp?

I’ll say this again. @Robo432343 ONLY unequalized the speed under the assumption that muzan wouldn’t get speed stomped and that the gap was less than 3x

Kaneki's scaling chain has 2 blitz amps and just a speed advantage. As far as I remember Muzan's scaling chain includes 3-4 amps. It's not enough to equalize speed, but it might be enough to not be a punching bag just because of the speed difference.

However, oops. Kaneki has much better skills, better body-weapon control, better analytical forecasting, donmaku, superior LS and in theory even the ability to eat Muzan with his tentacles.

Even if we assume that Kaneki runs to Muzan and falls into IC, then Kaneki just has time to grab Sukuna with his kagune and lock him in a kagune-bag, which he will squeeze with his LS, which is billions of times higher and turn him into a pool of blood

 

[NikHelton]

Next time use Kaneki against a real opponent, JJK and KYN are fodder

That's why we made Kaneki vs Saitama, Ahaha

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

hat's not quite true. There is a blitz scaling chain between Muzan and Mitsuri's base and Sukuna is ahead of these characters.

That's enough to keep the match from being unfair and enough for Kaneki to have an advantage

You legit said it yourself that Tg’s scaling chain is way larger from Mach 8000 than kny from Mach 2000 with quantifiable speed.

The fact that you are willingly going to sugar coat it in an attempt to keep a stomp argument that you yourself created as a wincon is telling. @Robo432343 unequalized speed thinking that kaneki would have a speed advantage but it would be less than 3x so it isn’t a stomp. Congratulations on arguing them upscaling a chain from Mach 8000 larger than KNY’s Mach 2000

 

[GodEarh206]

Uhhhhhh...
I think my vote goes to Kaneki

 

[NikHelton]

Wait so now this is a stomp close this lame ahh match then

When Sukuna loses without being able to use his trump cards, dies from a single scratch and his DE is useless against Muzan - that's a fair match

When Kaneki loses because his body is paralyzed by BS and Muzan moves him to Infinity Caslte where Kaneki can never escape - that's a fair match

When Muzan loses because of the difference in speed, skill, AP and range - that's unfair, the match should be closed

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

You legit said it yourself that Tg’s scaling chain is way larger from Mach 8000 than kny from Mach 2000 with quantifiable speed.

The fact that you are willingly going to sugar coat it in an attempt to keep a stomp argument that you yourself created as a wincon is telling. @Robo432343 unequalized speed thinking that kaneki would have a speed advantage but it would be less than 3x so it isn’t a stomp. Congratulations on arguing them upscaling a chain from Mach 8000 larger than KNY’s Mach 2000

I remove my vote btw

 

[NikHelton]

When Sukuna loses without being able to use his trump cards, dies from a single scratch and his DE is useless against Muzan - that's a fair match

When Kaneki loses because his body is paralyzed by BS and Muzan moves him to Infinity Caslte where Kaneki can never escape - that's a fair match

When Muzan loses because of the difference in speed, skill, AP and range - that's unfair, the match should be closed

I suggest using Kaneki pre-gulification

I think this match will be fair and can be added to profiles

 

[NikHelton]

I remove my vote btw

Who are you voting for?