Li Qiye Transduality Removal

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Li Qiye should have the transduality part of the ability removed because it is currently not up to par with how the standards currently are.

Transduality (Type 2; His Nirvana Heavens form is above the entirety of the heavenly grand Dao, beyond life and death, ying and yang, heaven and earth...All are beneath his reign; all are created by him. Represents all of those things while being simultaneously beyond them and necessary for their existence<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Li_Qiye#cite_note-184"><span>[</span>184<span>]</span></a>)

Essentially the dualities have to have proof of logically being the negation of other which is admitted by the two most knowledgeable staff on the ability such as Ultima, and DT. So it doesn't matter if something is called or considered a duality, it'd have to be clarified that it fits under the wikis specific definition of one.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yeah.

 

[Robo432343]

if its not transduality then what is it

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

if its not transduality then what is it

just is

 

[Saftirix]

As far as I know yin and yang are considered dualities by default. Even the page has taiji as The Example. Plank also thinks so. But of course it needs some elaboration. But considering the text showing other possible dualities other than ying and yang, I think intent is clear.

Text also says everything before mentioning some dualities. Which is in line with taiji making up everything. Again, I think intent is very clear.

 

[Thermor]

Since they mention life and death, still qualifies for type 1, no?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Text also says everything before mentioning some dualities. Which is in line with taiji making up everything. Again, I think intent is very clear.

Taiji is also directly stated in the series btw. Dont know if it changes things, but there is that.

 

[GrandSho]

In the series, Yin Yang represent the opposing affinities. Cold and Heat, Evil and Righteousness, Soft and Hard, etc. They are opposing forces that negate each other such as the chilling breath of the Yin affinity extinguishing the sun of the Yang affinity. But they also harmonize and their laws form a single existence as shown by the Yin Yang Pond.

With Yin and Yang, it would give birth to strands of laws that emitted blinding lights. These little strands of laws would then intertwine into a single unit.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

A Chinese verse without nonduality/transduality of some sort doesn't seem possible...

 

[MrTayman616]

A Chinese verse without nonduality/transduality of some sort doesn't seem possible...

Made me laugh, thx.

 

[Wesker018]

Taiji is also directly stated in the series btw. Dont know if it changes things, but there is that.

can you ping plank he is knowledgeable in chinamen brainrot maybe he can tell if ND is valid in this case or not

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

can you ping plank he is knowledgeable in chinamen brainrot maybe he can tell if ND is valid in this case or not

Aight.

Taiji is also directly stated in the series btw. Dont know if it changes things, but there is that.

In the series, Yin Yang represent the opposing affinities. Cold and Heat, Evil and Righteousness, Soft and Hard, etc. They are opposing forces that negate each other such as the chilling breath of the Yin affinity extinguishing the sun of the Yang affinity. But they also harmonize and their laws form a single existence as shown by the Yin Yang Pond.

"With Yin and Yang, it would give birth to strands of laws that emitted blinding lights. These little strands of laws would then intertwine into a single unit."

@Planck69 Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

As far as I know ying and yang are considered dualities by default. Even the page has taiji as The Example. Plank also thinks so. But of course it needs some elaboration. But considering the text showing other possible dualities other than ying and yang, I think intent is clear.

Text also says everything before mentioning some dualities. Which is in line with taiji making up everything. Again, I think intent is very clear.

The thing is the Taiji image in the page is a bit misleading. When the two most knowledgeable staff on the subject say that, most duality wont qualify, and only logically opposite concepts qualify and that there has even been a downgrade passed by Ultima for similar reasons I'm more inclined to believe them.

 

[Orioreeem]

I think ND should stay because like aren't ying and yang opposites by default especially if they are connected to Taiji. Like picture on the nonduality is literally ying and yang and the same picture shows that they are opposites(logical negations)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I think ND should stay because like aren't ying and yang opposites by default especially if they are connected to Taiji. Like picture on the nonduality is literally ying and yang and the same picture shows that they are opposites(logical negations)

That's not how it really works. Yin and Yang are just classical dualities like heaven and earth, life and death, sun and moon, male and female etc. While logical negations are stuff such as "heaven and non-heaven", "earth and non-earth" and you get what I mean with rest. A verse would have to clarify yin and yang works with that sort of framework.

 

[Saftirix]

The thing is the Taiji image in the page is a bit misleading. When the two most knowledgeable staff on the subject say that, most duality wont qualify, and only logically opposite concepts qualify and that there has even been a downgrade passed by Ultima for similar reasons I'm more inclined to believe them.

If the sentence did not say everything when describing dualities then you could be right. But it literally says dualities make up everything. And in order for dualities to make up everything they need to include both A and not-A otherwise it is not everything. Then again that is not the most solid evidence and it also depends on interpretation and site standards. It would be best if DT, Ultima and Plank were to come here to explain.

 

[Orioreeem]

That's not how it really works. Yin and Yang are just classical dualities like heaven and earth, life and death, sun and moon, male and female etc. While logical negations are stuff such as "heaven and non-heaven", "earth and non-earth" and you get what I mean with rest. A verse would have to clarify yin and yang works with that sort of framework.

I mean if we look at life and non-life isn't non-life death? You can't be both alive and death at the same time. Also heaven and non-heaven doesn't really make sense. Like what is non-heaven if not earth really? By the definition it would qualify.

Originating in Chinese philosophy, yin and yang (English: /jɪn/, /jæŋ/), also yinyang[1][2] or yin-yang,[3][2] is the concept of opposite forces or opposite principles with cosmic significance interacting, interconnecting, and perpetuating each other. Yin and yang can be thought of as complementary and at the same time opposing forces that interact to form a dynamic system in which the whole is greater than the assembled parts and the parts are as important for the cohesion of the whole.

But still Taiji would by default be type 2 then no? Via oneness right?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I mean if we look at life and non-life isn't non-life death? You can't be both alive and death at the same time. Also heaven and non-heaven doesn't really make sense. Like what is non-heaven if not earth really? By the definition it would qualify.

Originating in Chinese philosophy, yin and yang (English: /jɪn/, /jæŋ/), also yinyang[1][2] or yin-yang,[3][2] is the concept of opposite forces or opposite principles with cosmic significance interacting, interconnecting, and perpetuating each other. Yin and yang can be thought of as complementary and at the same time opposing forces that interact to form a dynamic system in which the whole is greater than the assembled parts and the parts are as important for the cohesion of the whole.

But still Taiji would by default be type 2 then no? Via oneness right?

A rock is neither alive or dead.

 

[SweetDao]

A rock is neither alive or dead.

Prove it

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Prove it

dead
/ded/

adjective

1. 1.
   no longer alive.
   "a dead body"

 

[Orioreeem]

A rock is neither alive or dead.

Yea because it's an object. It doesn't have such properties. If life-death is duality must objects also follow that?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yea because it's an object. It doesn't have such properties. If life-death is duality must objects also follow that?

Everything has to follow it. The whole point of logical negations is that you're one or other, or you violate classical logic and thus are nondual by how wiki defines it.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

A rock (or characters who are just a rock) would also have immunity to soul manipulation and many other things by default, but we dont list that because...reasons. So a rock could technically be nondual, we just wouldn't list it.

 

[Huesito88]

A rock (or characters who are just a rock) would also have immunity to soul manipulation and many other things by default, but we dont list that because...reasons. So a rock could technically be nondual, but we just wouldn't list it.

But Oblivion I want to Vs Battle Index that rock

 

[Orioreeem]

Everything has to follow it. The whole point of logical negations is that you're one or other, or you violate classical logic and thus are nondual by how wiki defines it.

Then picture on nonusality page should be removed

 

[Huesito88]

Then picture on nonusality page should be removed

Why?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Why?

It's a picture of taiji. The OP is saying taiji doesn't qualify.

 

[Wesker018]

OP told me taiji qualify

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

OP told me taiji qualify

...Emperor's Domination uses Taiji, so...

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

OP told me taiji qualify

you misunderstood what i meant. wuji CAN be considered logical negation to taiji in a sense that it's everything taiji isn't (nothingness). or wuji when properly elaborated on its own being able to be type 2 since its completely without distinction in regards to taiji (so neither taiji or not-taiji)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah, this is fine

 

[SuperNova55555]

We could probably slime a shitton of chinaman verses like this icl

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

We could probably slime a shitton of chinaman verses like this icl

wang wei (english chinaman) is fine at least

 

[SuperNova55555]

you misunderstood what i meant. wuji CAN be considered logical negation to taiji in a sense that it's everything taiji isn't (nothingness). or wuji when properly elaborated on its own being able to be type 2 since its completely without distinction in regards to taiji (so neither taiji or not-taiji)

Also old comment I know but Wuji is just nothing analogically (that’s why it is simultaneously “everything”). It’s not a proper “not-P” per se.

Also made me think of OC rn, and he’s the same case I guess, since Chaos is just the limit of Being so it’s not like PP1 makes that much sense for him either. But I digress.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

YTSY and Dragon Talisman would be the only Chinamen who actually have true PP.

 

[Wesker018]

YTSY

bro wtf this verse have 6 different PCP listed

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 3; [Absolute] makes it so one can't be affected by any kind of complex or volatile skill, including ones that are illusory or spiritual, because they have transcended all boundaries. As such, even attacks that make every aspect and principle of the universe equal, parallel, symmetrical, balanced, stable, complementing, nullifying, and corresponding, ridding it of change and possibility, are unable to truly affect them

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 3; Initial Flames are formed from countless bits of information of both 'Existence', 'Non-Existence', and 'Ambiguity'

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 2; Spiritual Energy is categorized into various types and attributes, but these are merely labels imposed by human understanding. In truth, Spiritual Energy itself does not change—it remains inherently contradictory yet unified, opposing yet harmonious. These attributes and manifestations can represent zero and one, existence and nonexistence, yes and no

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 3; Transcenders are the absolute, infinite eternity that surpasses the duality of life and death upon which all logic is founded, as well as the opposition of life and death. All concepts exist as an infinite spectrum of two poles, and all the infinite forms of logic and perception are correct. Furthermore, Transcender's transcend the infinite cycle of [Reincarnation], which is the cycling of all states of duality, including nested dualities

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 3; Great Existences can be perceived in terms of good and evil, right and wrong, justice and evil, yes and no, by both mortals and Transcendent Gods. However, such beings are like blind men touching an elephant—anyone unable to transcend time and space cannot perceive their true nature, at most only glimpsing a partial facet)

• Paraconsistent Physiology (Type 3; Evil God's true form mimics that of the purest form of the Void, with the Void representing balance, an eternal pause, never changing, without any kind of distinctions or boundaries between all forms of existence and nonexistence, just a simple seamless opaqueness)

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

bro wtf this verse have 6 different PCP listed

Some of them should be type 1 or 2 lol, being carried from previous ND standard.

 

[God_of_perversion]

We could probably slime a shitton of chinaman verses like this icl

99% of acasuality type 4 in these verses are false tbh