-One-Eyed King vs Invincible and Allen- [7/2/1] - GRACE

[NikHelton]

• Speed Equalized;
• Both 7-A keys
• Kaneki (Post-Dragon) - 956 Megatons of TNT. In character. Ready to kill if necessary.
• Mark and Allen (TV-S1) - At least 948 Megatons of TNT. They is aggressively disposed and ready to kill if necessary;
• Place: Abandoned Pentagon;
  
  

Kaneki (7): @Arkansalter2, @Jackof_noTrades068, @LegendariumOfLies, @DarthSorox, @Foriaa, @Kazuma_kuwabara, @AigerTheKing
Mark and Allen (2): @Catbowtie, @Arkenis
Incon (1): @CastoriceTheFifth

 

[Arkansalter2]

Either A: Invincible rages up and punches Kaneki to space.
Or B: Kaneki RE's and ADs.

 

[Catbowtie]

I'm going with Mark slaps Kaneki around and somehow ends up in space.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I'm going with Mark slaps Kaneki around and somehow ends up in space.

Is that a vote?

 

[Catbowtie]

Yes

 

[Arkansalter2]

Going with Mark here. Mark has rage amps that will allow for him to slap Kaneki around a lot since he drew blood from Omni-Man who is much stronger than Mark and Kaneki. That's one hell of an upscale for mark from his original value.
Plus, Kaneki has no way to tag Mark if he flies.

Mark, mid diff.

 

[NikHelton]

I'm going with Mark slaps Kaneki around and somehow ends up in space.

Kaneki has the advantage in LS. How will Mark do it alone if their speed is equal?
However, if they actively push him into the air, dodging all attacks, they have a chance.

However, did Mark throw someone into space from the beginning? He will definitely start with a normal fight and should understand that the opponent is regenerating. Of course, Allen is more experienced, but Kaneki has the advantage in skills.

 

[NikHelton]

Plus, Kaneki has no way to tag Mark if he flies.

Mark, mid diff.

speed is leveled so he does it

 

[NikHelton]

Reaction and combat speed scales to flight speed. Of course, Rage speeds up Mark a lot, but it's not so much that Kaneki doesn't notice how he's sent into the stratosphere.

During the flight, Kaneki simply breaks out of his grip thanks to the LS advantage or deals serious damage with the shockwave

 

[Arkansalter2]

Reaction and combat speed scales to flight speed. Of course, Rage speeds up Mark a lot, but it's not so much that Kaneki doesn't notice how he's sent into the stratosphere.

During the flight, Kaneki simply breaks out of his grip thanks to the LS advantage or deals serious damage with the shockwave

That's cool but..

Mark has rage amps that will allow for him to slap Kaneki around a lot since he drew blood from Omni-Man who is much stronger than Mark and Kaneki. That's one hell of an upscale for mark from his original value.

 

[NikHelton]

That's cool but..

Yes, but it's still not Low 6-B and is in the far higher range. It might be enough to punch a hole through Kaneki's body, but Kaneki eats such wounds for breakfast.

And I repeat - Mark is very emotional and will first of all go into close combat, where he risks being destroyed by Kaneki's skills. However, Allen is much more experienced and compensates for Mark's lack of skills

 

[Arkansalter2]

Yes, but it's still not Low 6-B and is in the far higher range. It might be enough to punch a hole through Kaneki's body, but Kaneki eats such wounds for breakfast.

That's cool but... does he eat getting sent to space with a punch? I wouldn't think so.

 

[Catbowtie]

That's cool but... does he eat getting sent to space with a punch? I wouldn't think so.

He's saying Kaneki can resist it through higher lifting strength tho

 

[Arkansalter2]

Oh I didn't even realize this was a 2v1.
In that case, They'll just JJK jump Kaneki's stupid ass.

 

[NikHelton]

That's cool but... does he eat getting sent to space with a punch? I wouldn't think so.

Please show me how Mark sends someone into space with a punch. Even when he's angry, the most that happens is that the person flies through the city. In order to throw Kaneki into space, he needs to push him.

Kaneki also only needs to push himself back with a shockwave or cling to a building-ground.

And let's not close our eyes to the fact that Mark is still a brawler. Ordinary investigators are trained to fight opponents who are capable of killing them with 1 punch and surpass them in pure speed. Kaneki has trained and is on the level of a guy who fights 3 opponents of relative speed with one hand and without turning around.

When Mark wants to get close to him, he can simply be killed by a kagune trap or captured in a kagune cage

 

[Arkansalter2]

Please show me how Mark sends someone into space with a punch.

Sure.

but it's still not Low 6-B and is in the far higher range

Yeah. It's called upscaling. Kaneki doesn't upscale that high.

 

[NikHelton]

Mark is a straightforward brawler who is read like an open book.
Kaneki is a cold-blooded fighter who intelligently sizes up his opponent and reads them. If one of them tries to grab him from behind, they will be immediately pierced by the kagune. If they try to beat him with brute force without tactics, he will use a shockwave.
He uses Donmaku very actively in combat and is skilled in it. Mark has never encountered such a thing before.
And that's not to mention that he can use copied abilities of other ghouls such as a force field and doppelgangers.

 

[NikHelton]

Sure.

Its's season 2, bro
And Conquest just play with him

Yeah. It's called upscaling. Kaneki doesn't upscale that high.

This doesn't mean Mark scales to Low 6-B.
Let's not give the example of "Stunned Omni-Man" even when he didn't do any damage to him, as if we don't have Reanibots that hurt Nolan, as if Maulers haven't fought the Immortal, and as if much weaker characters haven't pushed back much stronger ones before.

 

[NikHelton]

Let's not blow this one out of proportion when there's a moment in the verse where the crime syndicate members beat Mark bloody back in Season 1.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Mark is a straightforward brawler who is read like an open book.
Kaneki is a cold-blooded fighter who intelligently sizes up his opponent and reads them. If one of them tries to grab him from behind, they will be immediately pierced by the kagune. If they try to beat him with brute force without tactics, he will use a shockwave.
He uses Donmaku very actively in combat and is skilled in it. Mark has never encountered such a thing before.
And that's not to mention that he can use copied abilities of other ghouls such as a force field and doppelgangers.

Kaneki is fighting 2 people however.

Also, no. Mark isn't a purely a "brawler". He can actually go toe to toe with veteran Viltrimutes, even when he had no combat training. Along with that, his skill improved overtime.
Allen on the other hand,was trained by the Coalition of Planets to be the greatest fighter in the universe. Allen is superior to Invincible, who again drew blood from Omni-Man.
I never said that Mark scaled to Low 6-B, I just said that he upscaled vastly from his original value just by being able to do that.

Let's not give the example of "Stunned Omni-Man" even when he didn't do any damage to him,

If he can draw blood from Omni-Man, that's damage. Sure he got his ass beat right afterward, but him being able to draw blood from Omni-Man and to have him actually start trying is quite impressive.

 

[Arkenis]

Why would Mark get mad in this fight? I could've forgotten, but he's never gotten mad at someone unless he was connected to them personally.

Edit: Okay, I see the vid given for rage, that lion guy just pushes him down. Kaneki's LS would let him do that here if he gets enraged

 

[NikHelton]

Kaneki is fighting 2 people however.

Bro, Kaneki actively fought 5 ghouls using both quinque and kagune, forcing them to flee.
He is on a level higher than Yoshimura, who is able to fight 3, and then 5 opponents at once, each of whom is on the level of the strongest ghouls, who are able to fight a hundred investigators.
He is on the level of Arima, who fights 3 opponents at the same time, who manage to keep up with him and is so skilled that he does it without looking.

Also, no. Mark isn't a purely a "brawler". He can actually go toe to toe with veteran Viltrimutes, even when he had no combat training. Along with that, his skill improved overtime.

Wow, that's not even first class investigator level

Allen on the other hand,was trained by the Coalition of Planets to be the greatest fighter in the universe. Allen is superior to Invincible, who again drew blood from Omni-Man.
I never said that Mark scaled to Low 6-B, I just said that he upscaled vastly from his original value just by being able to do that.

If he can draw blood from Omni-Man, that's damage. Sure he got his ass beat right afterward, but him being able to draw blood from Omni-Man and to have him actually start trying is quite impressive.

Dude, a drop of blood in this verse means nothing when the syndicate members are beating Mark bloody and the Reanimen are making Nolan groan in pain

 

[Arkansalter2]

Bro, Kaneki actively fought 5 ghouls using both quinque and kagune, forcing them to flee.
He is on a level higher than Yoshimura, who is able to fight 3, and then 5 opponents at once, each of whom is on the level of the strongest ghouls, who are able to fight a hundred investigators.
He is on the level of Arima, who fights 3 opponents at the same time, who manage to keep up with him and is so skilled that he does it without looking.

Okay but what would this mean when Allen was trained to be the greatest fighter in the universe?

 

[NikHelton]

Okay but what would this mean when Allen was trained to be the greatest fighter in the universe?

Cool, can you demonstrate to me how this manifests itself?

 

[Arkenis]

Bro, Kaneki actively fought 5 ghouls using both quinque and kagune, forcing them to flee.
He is on a level higher than Yoshimura, who is able to fight 3, and then 5 opponents at once, each of whom is on the level of the strongest ghouls, who are able to fight a hundred investigators.
He is on the level of Arima, who fights 3 opponents at the same time, who manage to keep up with him and is so skilled that he does it without looking.

These are generally due to stat differences though.

Okay but what would this mean when Allen was trained to be the greatest fighter in the universe?

The guy is pretty average in fighting so that training really was bs

 

[NikHelton]

By the way, this is what awaits Mark and Allen if they approach Kaneki too carelessly

 

[Arkansalter2]

These are generally due to stat differences though.

Yeah true. I don't think Kaneki faced off against two people who can put a new asshole where his head should have been or can just JJK jump him.

 

[NikHelton]

These are generally due to stat differences though.

No, the White Suits were capable of striking Haise and scaled to his level
Shinohara, Hoji, Ui, Suzuya, and Kuroiwa are also on par with Yoshimura in speed and are able to both push him back and withstand his attacks
Yomo, Ayato, and Touka are able to dodge Arima's attacks, but are overwhelmed by his skills

 

[NikHelton]

Yeah true. I don't think Kaneki faced off against two people who can put a new asshole where his head should have been or can just JJK jump him.

Bro, you haven't read the manga but you're already saying Kaneki hardly did anything

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I think just going over Kaneki, Allen and Mark's profiles. Kaneki's the better fighter.
Mark can fight veteran viltrumites sure. But the combat skills of said viltrumites isn't the most clear (compared to Kaneki's feats) besides presumptions they'd be good at martial arts like soldiers in the real world can be (Unless theres something I'm missing, I'm a pretty casual viewer of invincible). But Kaneki has fought against a conventional martial artist (like Shachi) as well as investigators with more quantifiable skill feats such as Arima
Kaneki can shockwave blast them to get him off, if they just charge into him with no further plan besides getting him in space

If they just beat the tar of him and don't send him into space, assuming Kaneki gets hit a ton in the first place. Allen and Mark have to contend with Kaneki's RE, and if they take too long they'll start losing, given how much better Kaneki's regen is too. They can punch a hole through him even and he can recover.
I do think if Mark gets enraged knocking Kaneki up into space like this is possible I wouldn't say its guaranteed. Especially since with Kaneki's LS edge he can kinda just shove and pin one down with his Kakuja as he focuses on the other.
Logically Kaneki should want to stay out of the air.

Not voting yet, but I wanna lay down where I stand here for now

 

[Arkenis]

No, the White Suits were capable of striking Haise and scaled to his level
Shinohara, Hoji, Ui, Suzuya, and Kuroiwa are also on par with Yoshimura in speed and are able to both push him back and withstand his attacks
Yomo, Ayato, and Touka are able to dodge Arima's attacks, but are overwhelmed by his skills

They clearly aren't. Kaneki scared those ghouls away in your scan.

Pushing back and withstanding attacks doesn't mean you scale. Yoshimura was dominating them and when he got a direct hit on them he cut off Juuzo's leg and cut of Kuroiwa's arm.

I wouldn't really say these are needed anyway, Kaneki's clearly a better fighter.

 

[NikHelton]

They clearly aren't. Kaneki scared those ghouls away in your scan.

These guys literally knocked him off his feet, and Haise himself praises them for their speed and strength. They showed the same results against the Oggai as Naki, who successfully blocks Ui's attacks while half-dead and is equal to Tsukiyama. Tsukiyama, in turn, went toe-to-toe with Haise at the end of the Rose arc.
Moreover, Kaneki is immeasurably superior to Kurona, who is capable of fighting dozens of former investigator fighters, each of whom is capable of physically overpowering her and capturing her.

Pushing back and withstanding attacks doesn't mean you scale. Yoshimura was dominating them and when he got a direct hit on them he cut off Juuzo's leg

It's strange that you missed the nuance that Suzuya, whose leg Yoshimura cut off, cut off Yoshimura's arm.

and cut of Kuroiwa's arm.

This only speaks to Yoshimura's superior skills, that he is able to cut off his opponent's hand even in such conditions.
No, the investigators are not inferior to him.
Hirako literally dodges his attack at point-blank range and successfully counterattacks.
Shinohara forces Yoshimura to retreat under the onslaught of blows, dodges his attacks and even delivers a blitz strike

I wouldn't really say these are needed anyway, Kaneki's clearly a better fighter.

Maybe you haven't read the manga for a long time. I just wanted to show you that in Ghoul, fights are not often decided by differences in stats.

 

[Arkenis]

Maybe you haven't read the manga for a long time. I just wanted to show you that in Ghoul, fights are not often decided by differences in stats.

Because most the time everyone can survive big wounds lmao. The feats don't really matter though, Mark and Allen are still gonna be able to overwhelm through their hits.

Also Ken's Class T is scaled to the Dragon's mass, thing is that's the entire dragon's calced mass. How does Kaneki withstanding the tentacles mean he scales?

 

[NikHelton]

Because most the time everyone can survive big wounds lmao

If the difference in speed and strength was huge, they would all be killed, lol
I have given enough supported arguments

Also Ken's Class T is scaled to the Dragon's mass, thing is that's the entire dragon's calced mass. How does Kaneki withstanding the tentacles mean he scales?

Dragon is able to raise its mass to such a height and at such a speed even before its full formation and only at the moment of activation. Kaneki was able to hold back the onslaught of the Dragon's defense mechanisms that guarded the main core, so he scales up to this

 

[Arkenis]

Dragon is able to raise its mass to such a height and at such a speed even before its full formation and only at the moment of activation. Kaneki was able to hold back the onslaught of the Dragon's defense mechanisms that guarded the main core, so he scales up to this

How does the onslaught scale to the mass though?

 

[NikHelton]

The feats don't really matter though, Mark and Allen are still gonna be able to overwhelm through their hits.

What are your vote?

 

[NikHelton]

How does the onslaught scale to the mass though?

Dragon scales up to its LS. Kaneki withstands the onslaught of the Dragon's defense mechanisms

 

[Arkenis]

Idk. I'm beginning to find it a mismatch or at least Kaneki's LS needs more clarification for how he scales otherwise, he'd be downgraded to Class G.

 

[Arkenis]

Dragon scales up to its LS. Kaneki withstands the onslaught of the Dragon's defense mechanisms

Okay and how does the onslaught scale to the Dragons mass.

 

[NikHelton]

Okay and how does the onslaught scale to the Dragons mass.

Dragon's tentacles scale to the strength needed to move the massive mass at high speeds. It's a simple formula with acceleration. Kaneki is able to withstand the Dragon's onslaught. It's that simple.