Isekai at Peace Discussion Thread

[Enter_Bluey]

Yeah, that was in the LN when Alice was still Six Kings level, still crazy that Lillie's defenses are good enough to last that long against her.

Alice also indirectly confirmed Six Kings and Supreme Gods have no issues defeating Lillie.

In other news, I found one of the few mentions of viscount rank and what does it say?

So peak viscounts, at least four of them in the Hero Party, can fight the peak count rank Vier...

Even challenging a peak count rank is odd at that level...

But yeah, Six Kings and Supreme Gods can defeat her, they have some authority level hax and resistances I'm sure. Then everyone else will have difficulty, because not all ranks have her type of ability I'd say. It's very strong tbh. So I imagine they also have subjective hax, or nullify her ability. Or, can mess with the law of causality much better to guarantee their hits. Some stuff exists like mental interference, to perhaps make her believe attacks can harm her as well since it's subjective.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

In other news, I found one of the few mentions of viscount rank and what does it say?

So peak viscounts, at least four of them in the Hero Party, can fight the peak count rank Vier...

Vier was stated to be in her worse condition, and in terms of ap, her ap is actually pretty low for a peak, but in contrast she has high defense, and regen.

But yea Neun also is blessed by Shiro with being indestructible and has some sort stat amping ability where people who fight with her, get stronger than normal. But yea this whole situation is something to talk about in a later CRT.

 

[Noneless21]

Btw, what does Shiro buff being "indestructible" do? Is it like supernatural willpower?

 

[Legacy30]

Vier was stated to be in her worse condition, and in terms of ap, her ap is actually pretty low for a peak, but in contrast she has high defense, and regen.

I've heard about Vier being in her worst condition during that fight, but I've not seen the scans for it.

Btw, what does Shiro buff being "indestructible" do? Is it like supernatural willpower?

It's a guts ability where Neun can rise up again and again so long as she has magic power.

③ Neun : “Indestructible Hero”

Although the person herself doesn’t know it, when she was summoned, she was given the ability to “be invincible as long as her heart doesn’t break” by Shallow Vernal. To put it simply, it’s an “Endure skill that can be activated over and over as long as she has MP”. This is the main reason for the anecdotes about her story, that the Hero will never be defeated.

As for the reason why Shallow Vernal gave her this ability…… It was the first time she summoned a Hero, so she didn’t know what the “Isekai Karen (God)” would say if Neun accidentally died, so this was an insurance.
~chapter 827

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Her ability is pretty strong. Makes her hard to take out regardless of how many times you knock Neun down. Supernatural willpower and RPL

It's like having your major organs damaged but still moving because funny will. Anime MC type of stuff

 

[Noneless21]

I've heard about Vier being in her worst condition during that fight, but I've not seen the scans for it.

Yeah while not exactly physically, mentally Vier is a wreck, honestly she hated killing but given that she invaded the Human Realm and caused thousands of casualties, she might've blame herself that much.

 

[Fantric]

Honestly tbh. The only reason Vier actually lost cuz she just let go of all the bs. She could've gotten up at any time and crushed them if she really wanted to.

 

[Legacy30]

But to be able to get that far in beating her even once means the Hero party had the AP to damage Vier...

 

[Fantric]

I'm seeing what you wanna do here but....
The reason all Peak Count ranks are considered relative is cuz when they fight the result won't be out in a day or two, it's the same with Vier but....for another reason. The fight will take time but not cuz of them being relative, but Vier continuously restoring her power while the opponent exhaust themselves to death. This is what we know from the description of her ability. She's basically an exception among Peak Count ranks tbh with no combat power but very high restoration. Idt she's got physical stats of a peak Count rank, especially when the story went out of its way to mention her real speciality is healing magic.

 

[Legacy30]

She does have the physical stats of a peak count rank because Sechs, a fellow peak count, can't completely destroy her in one hit.

~ ~ Extra : The Battle compatibility of the Six Kings’ Executives against Vier ~ ~

Because of Vier’s tremendous resilience, she won’t wear down in a normal fight. In order to wear Vier down, except in cases where “Vier herself is in a really bad condition”, the minimum requirement is enough firepower to wipe out her defenses with a single blow.

Even if Vier gets worn down to a certain degree after recovering herself, within the short time between self-recovery→magic power recovery, it’s effective to erase them again and gradually wear Vier down.

【War King’s Five Warlords】
It’s a very good matchup, and with their high firepower, they have plenty of effective strikes against Vier. They are accustomed to long term battles, so they are more likely to be able to push and win in the end.

【Four Great Demon Dragons】
They also have a lot of high-powered attacks, so there is a good chance that they will be able to fight to their advantage.

【Ten Demons】
With the exception of a few such as Pandora, they are extremely incompatible. Vier herself has tremendous resistance to status effects, and on top of that , she’s a master of Recovery Magic, so any tricks they use are nearly useless. More than half of the time, there is no way for them to win.

【Seven Princesses】
They’re a terrible matchup, and with the exception of Camellia, there is no way for them to win against Vier. In the first place, for the Seven Princesses, whose main strategy is to counter, Vier, with her extremely low offensive ability and extremely high other abilities, is their natural enemy.
However, since many of them are still excellent at recovering magic power, though not as good as Vier, it’s highly likely that it would take a tremendous number of days for their battle to conclude.

【Pleiades】
More than anyone else, Iris, who specializes in firepower, is Vier’s natural enemy. Whenever she recovers, she can repeatedly wipe her out with a single blow, and then hit her with sealing techniques in the time it takes for her to recover from the loss of her magic power, so there’s no way for Vier to win against Iris.
~chapter 887

Chatgpt translation:

Vier possesses tremendous regenerative power, so she doesn’t wear down from normal combat. Unless her condition is already close to the worst, the bare minimum requirement to wear her down is overwhelming firepower—enough to obliterate her in a single blow, even through her defenses.

Even Vier incurs some degree of strain when using self-resurrection, so an effective strategy is to obliterate her again during the brief window between her revival and full magic power recovery, gradually chipping her down that way.

However, I can now see why the Hero Party might not really scale to Vier at her best condition, because the text here implies that either Vier's defenses lowers, her recovery speed lowers, or the threshold for her to begin to wear down lowers when close to the worst condition. Or probably all the above.

 

[Fantric]

In order to wear Vier down, except in cases where “Vier herself is in a really bad condition”,

I think we should focus on this as well. What is stated there in in situation where she's in her prime condition, it's clearly a highlighted detail that she can, in fact, be worn down in a normal battle when she's in such condition.

 

[Noneless21]

To be fair, I don't think Vier stopped fighting for more than 2 years when she invaded the Human Realm, nonstop chores and wars gotta take a toll on someone, especially that someone was once a pacifist and always will be

 

[Legacy30]

As a break down

• Her condition is optimal
  • Her regeneration is strong
  • Her defenses are high to the point you need firepower to wipe her out in a single blow to make progress on exhausting her
• Her condition is close to the worst
  • Either her defenses are lower, or her regeneration is less effective, or she's too drained to recover properly
  • The minimum requirement of wiping her out in a single blow isn't needed to start exhausting her

But otherwise, you must be able to one-shot her to have any chances of exhausting Vier. And most peak counts can't one-shot Vier.

 

[Fantric]

Yep, that's what I think too. In her really bad condition, it's possible to exhaust her without the otherwise necessary fire power. And as Noneless said, it's also possible that she might be fighting non stop, so we can't just rule that possibility out. AND why are we acting as if Alice wasn't there tbh? Like yea, Hapti might not be nearly as strong but you know? We can't just rule the possibility of Alice pulling some shit behind the scenes there considering her personality....

 

[Fantric]

What's with this holy Shiro uprising in reddit powerscaling lmao....? She was completely non existent just a month ago and now I'm seeing her in damn six posts....and this is now, imagine if she actually get an upgrade to like H1-A....I can't...no, I don't want to imagine the situation....

 

[Noneless21]

This is why someone read the scan in raw and downgrade her is our only hope on getting out of this horrendous nightmare

 

[Fantric]

Atp can she even be downgraded from outer? I don't think....as long as she is even baseline, you get things like.......tier 0.....yea, I'm not even kidding atp..... I've seen it....

And you know what? We might actually get an upgrade for her to be above baseline......

 

[Noneless21]

We can just have someone read chapter 1267 raws and thought "okay, this is stupid" and proceed to dismantle it. Then profit

Cough @SeijiSetto if you may cough

 

[Fantric]

Ch 1267 is when the Epilogue madness come in right? Yea, it's stupid.....

Well, you don't want to see H1-B Makina

 

[Noneless21]

never mind high 1-B Mamakina, there's even a ground for 1-A Mamakina

turning Shiro into 1-A may have been a mistake

 

[Fantric]

Okay wtf? The hardest scale I can make sense of us L1-A Makina......1-A Makina is.... interesting

Nah, wait till she reaches 1-A+ so I can make a Ruphas vs Shiro rematch fr

 

[Noneless21]

yeah in chapter 2236 when Tiana the Bipolar God was formally introduced it was said that Mamakina's true body does not belong in any dimensional stratum, whatever the hell that means

it's either BDE type 1 or straight up 1-A

 

[Fantric]

Ah that, I see. Well, there are things to prove like qualitative superiority over dimensions etc etc basically outerverse lvl headache

My personal opinion is more in line for BDE type 1(possibly) and 1-A smurf immortality type 8 rather than 1-A existence but that's just me.

 

[Noneless21]

yeah and it bite our arse back by upscale the cosmology with Nebula "Encompassing" even this dimensionless void realm thing and Shiro transcend her entirely

 

[Fantric]

Encompassing the makeshift space can potentially make her 1-A......Shiro will either have 1 layer above baseline or straight up 1-A+/H1-A upgrade with that..... it's complicated tbh. As much as I want to upgrade the verse, I don't want the matches like the previous one being made(iykyk)......we are in quite the dilemma fr....

 

[Noneless21]

this is why we can only hope for downplayers to downplay Shiro back to low 1-C, the best rating for her

 

[Fantric]

Nah, L1-C might be too low, 1-C sounds better.

 

[Noneless21]

also I think we need to made a CRT to address the smurf hax, mostly Isis', no idea how it'll work, like only CM and Law manipulation got downgraded and the rest still 5D in potency or something?

I dunno tbh

 

[Legacy30]

Pegasus already said that he'd make a CRT to address that.
We're also going to have to make a conversation where authority = reason = concept down the line. This would also involve Isis since the chain would look like this:
Isis = magic power of death = existence = soul = authority = reason = law = concept.

 

[Fantric]

As of now, the points that needs to be addressed are:
1. Isis and smurf hax in general
2. peak Count ranks upgrade
3. Abilities addition for count ranks and above
4. The whole Megiddo situation
5(possibly). Heart tools
6. The "world" situation
7. World Creators hierarchy

These are the points that'll need a CRT as of now. Well, Pegasus will counter all of this so eh

 

[Orioreeem]

There is no more smurf hax that's lower then 1-A tho

 

[Fantric]

I FU**ING WISH.....

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As of now, the points that needs to be addressed are:
1. Isis and smurf hax in general
2. peak Count ranks upgrade
3. Abilities addition for count ranks and above
4. The whole Megiddo situation
5(possibly). Heart tools
6. The "world" situation
7. World Creators hierarchy

These are the points that'll need a CRT as of now. Well, Pegasus will counter all of this so eh

A thread on lifting strength is coming too, specifically for Peak Count Ranks, I predict it will be an upgrade somewhere between Class K and T. Will have to make the calc first to know which it is.

Count Ranks would also get a range upgrade to interdimensional with teleportation too. Also some intelligence revisions, ie Lila who I think should be extraordinary genius.

Then maybe, saying maybe cause it seems like a pain to list all of them, giving Omnipotent beings basically almost every ability in verse.

Think its interesting how they not only do they have Immeasurable speed, but can exist in multiple places at the same time.

Even the world creator hierarchy I have a clearer idea of where I want to go with things, but not the full picture yet, won't decide on that until I am actually caught up.

But yea lots of CRTS are going to be needed.

 

[Fantric]

We seriously getting a lot more than I expected....

Any update for Kaito tho? I think his profile needs an update as well, like I've got some solid 9-B scales so like 9-B, possibly 9-A with Nebula's fruits and there's thing about upgrading his lifting strength as well.....and we gotta add in his Memories as well, so there's that, whatever scale Six Kings will get will be added to his "summons".....tho I think this can be addressed in the abilities addition CRT itself?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If you have accepted calcs for Kaito, go ahead and make the CRT, I am already going to be doing a bunch.

Still not yet even done applying the revisions from the last CRT.

 

[Legacy30]

A huge paw swung down.
This blow, which can easily crush a human body if it hits, is deflected with a left hand and counter-struck with a clenched right fist.
The right fist strikes the face of the Black Bear as if it’s catching it, but unfortunately, the weight difference between them is too great for the punch to be an effective hit.
~chapter 77

Like this being class 25 to K lifting strength and 9-B rating for Kaito and everyone above. Needs a calc of course.

 

[Fantric]

If you have accepted calcs for Kaito, go ahead and make the CRT, I am already going to be doing a bunch.

There isn't a calc yet but sure, I'll try.

Still not yet even done applying the revisions from the last CRT.

Well, all the best with all that cuz it sure seems like a pain.....

Also, is there any slight chance that The Epilogue might get AC5 in future?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Impossible, The Epilogue can change, it developed a consciousness, Shiro, and fell in love with Kaito.

 

[Bummel]

Thats kaito rizz bypass aca5

 

[Legacy30]

Found something of interest since it involves Isis, which involves a ton of things by default.

[We thought that if suppressing Isis-san’s magic power of death isn’t an option in the real world…… As her magic power itself was the basis of Isis-san’s existence, there was no other way for me to do anything. What we had come up at that time was a mental clone. Compared to her main body, the mental clone would have considerably less magic power. If that’s the case, we thought that if we used an external technique to assist her in making this mental clone, well, we could suppress her magic power of death within a large-scale barrier.]

[………………]

[However, I guess even though it was just her mental thoughts, it was still her clone, and even with the large-scale barrier…… Well, in other words, even if it was limited to the virtual world, it was difficult to suppress her magic power of death without affecting Isis-san’s existence. Adding the cost and technical problems, even trying it was difficult.]
~chapter 540

Isis' magic power of death is still potent in a virtual world, and it's not just a simple one since Kuro and Alice helped create it to suppress her magic power of death, and it was still an act of affecting her existence. Can this mean magic power of death can continue to work in an info type 2 world and kill info type 2? If so, this could be a huge upgrade for a lot of things. I don't really know myself as this gets complicated since it is about Isis.

Regardless, we could possibly add info type 2 to the plethora of nonsense in magic power of death, which already has concept and authority stuff tacked on due to Isis being Isis.