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yee and?
Tho It's Gear 5 ~ Gorosei < Giant Gear 5
Gear 5 is still scaled highly and gear 5 with huge arms needed many hits to overpower Saturn, Saturn's dura would scale
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One Piece: Egghead
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
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- Tags
- one piece (verse)
Tho It's Gear 5 ~ Gorosei < Giant Gear 5
Gear 5 is still scaled highly and gear 5 with huge arms needed many hits to overpower Saturn, Saturn's dura would scale
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we are more so trying to come to conclusions... So I guess just wait until it's been mostly settled I think
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Oh.... I really don't know how to feel about so many characters being Tier 5 with a vastly huge lacking amount of supporting feats on that level.
Isn't it a bit strange the only Tier 5 feats going on in the verse currently are Blackbeard and Whitebeard creating massive earthquakes and the Mother Flame? Most of the characters don't come anywhere closer to this.
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Alright, no problem.
Keep me posted.
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Most of the other characters don't even go all out to be fair
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idk about that, wano had many feats close to that based of off aftereffects
I do agree tho some don't deserve to scale and their evidence lack quite a lot
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If we don't count the Bajrang Gun which G5 Luffy's strongest attack, the next highest attack from Wano Country arc is Momonosuke pulling Onigashima which is 82,566 times weaker than Blackbeard's earthquake which is what almost every character here is scaling to.
And most character's feats are significantly weaker than Momonosuke's feat.
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To be fair, about 90% of verses on this site have the issue of characters not regularly showcasing feats at their level.
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The values don't matter at all in this thread to be brutally honest
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Sure, it's a widespread issue. But it always seems that we're defaulting on the highest possible available value being the most optimal route to go with instead of ever judging most characters by their own feats.
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I suppose that's just the result of them fighting each other.
The only solution I could think of would be invoking PIS far more often.
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Aye. Figuring out the powerscaling is important.
Which makes me question why don't we bother just scaling the Straw Hats pre-timeskip to Tier 5? They take plenty of attacks from Kuma, Luffy hurts Blackbeard and Magellan, Luffy is portrayed as equals with Crocodile and Jinbe, etc. Let's just give up and make everyone Tier 5.
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There's Enel, there's Kaido fire dragon form that can scale similar to Bajrang gun, there's both law and kid's feat and there's others that haven't been calculated
Most characters calculated feats doesn't mean that's their max if they are able to compete against people that have calcs at those high calibers..?
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Serious Reason:
Some people just shouldn't.
Like now we're in the "Battle Royale" so it's fine for some more characters to scale. Their feats are more fleshed out (like Shiryu was an unknown measured char till he finally got feats) and we have more to work with.
Meanwhile back then, less to work with. More room for inconsistency.
Joking Reason:
You know damn well
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come on now tho, they don't have any actual scaling...
Magellan shouldn't even be scaled that high and blackbeard has the pain absorption + is a total mystery, sometimes very weak... sometimes very strong
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Enel's feat requires heavy interpretation and doesn't connect to any other character anyway.
Kaido's Fire Dragon Form doesn't connect to any other character either.
I'm not aware of any outstanding feats from Law or Kid awaiting calcs.
It just seems that we seem to be really selective when it comes to what the Straw Hats can scale to, but everyone else in the verse is fair game to scale as high as possible. Like some people wouldn't bat an eye at Magellen or Ivankov scaling to Solar System level if Blackbeard's calc reached that high.
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yes they would? Idk why we bringing up values tho, but we have much more showcases and evidence from the strawhats which is why it's more selective
Magellen or Ivankov being ~ blackbeard whos ~ shanks ~ wb and them has never been a thing
There's aokiji as well that hasn't been calculated, either way they scale based of off feats and statements putting them relative when fighting
I think at this point we're just derailing... If the scaling on this thread doesn't make sense to you, explain why and how they don't actual scale
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I don't want to veer into derailing.
I'll let the scaling discussion play out.
Main issue that I have currently that I've raised already is the speed calc for Sanji as we don't know his exact starting and ending positions.
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Problems with calcs are for Calc group discussions tho. Even I also think some speed calcs need some improvements but that's derailing the current thread since they're already accepted Calc feats
Currently it should just be about scaling and such until we've reach some sort of conclusion
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It's been accepted as mathematically valid by Calc Group Members, yeah, but that doesn't mean it is automatically applicable to the profiles. That has to be detirmined in CRT's like this one. And I'm currently voting against it.
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what? That makes no sense? That's not how that works, they're already accepted calcs... And this crt is just to implement those accepted calcs, if you have a problem with those calcs then you make a thread on revising them in Calc group...? Like I'm confused how you're suddenly going against how the wiki has always functioned?
The only thing you can reject here with those calcs is with who and who doesn't scale to them, hence a CRT is needed for that
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We're debating the tiering of the Straw Hats outside of the top 3 (along with base kaku) and how the narrative consistency conflicts with the tiering of the low-mid tier people.
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A calc being mathematically correct doesn't always mean it is suitable to use. We don't automatically apply every single calc that has been evaluated by a Calc Group Member. If an underlying assumption behind the calc is wrong, or if there are issues with how the result would go against powerscaling then staff members can evaluate whether it is correct to add to the profiles.
If other staff members disagree with me on that then I will go and create a CGM thread on it if necessary but it seems like a waste of time.
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idk how anything you said made sense, Calc mods accepts and evaluate calcs, thread mods accepts and evaluate CRT's, they do not evaluate the Calc itself only around the accepted calc and if someone thinks there's a problem with the Calc, That's for a Calc group thread
That's how it's always been and is stated to work, it's also way more effective in my view and it becomes less cluttered and chaotic in CRT's
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Very well, I'll make a separate thread to get rid of it. I was voting against it as a Calc Group Member, but a separate thread will be best to handle it, you're right.
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Read that, then look at your entire point.
Ryokugyu is never indicated as weaker what? Also the sandbox notes both King and Queen were still injuried. Regardless, the Straw Hats might have just gotten stronger, that happens all the time. They aren't necessicarily equal to the Gorosei or anything but them being 1000x weaker than the people they can take hits from, damage, and reflect attacks from is plain wrong
He might just not be pre-timeskip, we know he got promoted during the timeskip
Meant to push him not hurt him, also not using Haki.
I disagree with Magellan being tier 5, all of the statements about could easily just be because of his hax
We don't even see Kizaru using haki here, he's not serious either.
He's testing him here
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These are based off of dura neg, so would just be justification for his laser heat
This shouldn't be a valid scaling based of off him not even trying to resist the attack
He also momentarily stopped kizaru's kick, which can be used as another feat for that
I do have few issues with rob lucci but those are from previous crt's so I won't derail this specific thread off of that
Everything here are based on speculation and assumptions, not one solid feat... Him making literally no damage to Kuma debunks his scaling, knocking someone away while they aren't trying to resist means nothing and doesn't scale to anything
Similar for his dura, assumptions and no shown direct scaling
Based off of hax, as it already states
This can easily be based of off his character and bloodlust or the people around him, no direct scaling
This is post timeskip which should be a different key for him, even then... Garp isn't even shown using haki here and gets kinda attacked half off guard by taking kobys place and sacrificing himself... So its somewhat iffy, a likely rating or downscaling would kinda make sense here tho
Again I'll check later for adjustments and improvements but otherwise for everything else before S-Snake, they seems fine based off of what's already been brought up
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Yall derailed this thread crazy
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I took a napAyy, you lowkey was apart of it...
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My bad. Laser focus now.
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You forget to mention the fact that Zoro utilizes techniques far above his regular sword swings to finish off these characters.
Zoro isn't Goku. Zoro isn't here clashing with everyone he encounters even if they're weaker than him. Some people actually just scale to him, and he uses stronger techniques to put them down. Or he just blocks the whole time if they're actually inferior.
- Zoro Vs Hody Jones. Not a single clash. Zoro threw a named attack and he blocked it with a person, then he went underwater (got weaker) and one shot him before the water could even fully rise. And this wasn't even "enough energy to put him down" either. Zoro tried to kill this man, which is why he needed to take drugs to multiply his strength and Zoro ended up getting captured because he drowned. And even after a time passed, the cut still hurt.
- Zoro Vs Hyouzou. This was not a clash. It was 2 blocks (the other block) and a 1 shot with one of his strongest moves. The second block broke his freaking swords.
- Zoro Vs Monet. He did not clash with her once. He was defensive the entire time. It was all pure blocks. Literally they confirm so. And the one time he goes on offense, he cuts her face, then hits her with an attack 100% meant to scare her. Tashigi even says that if he used Haki, not even to strengthen his blow, but just to make contact, she would've died. Zoro would've killed her with the force of his move from what Tashigi saw (she has Kenbunshoku, she can sense power levels).
- Zoro Vs Pica.
- Zoro didn't know how to harm him. That was the whole fight. He was happy when he could actually hit him (he was grinning like an idiot), and it wasn't even a hit, it was a block.
- As tangible, we see one "clash". This is the first time Zoro has clashed with anyone. And even then Pica instantly ran away.
- Zoro finally found out how to damage him and he went all out. If he was holding back he woulda used less swords and not a 1,080 pound phoenix, a special move. He had him leaking blood from his face.
- Zoro is finally getting wounds dealt to him from Pica after fighting him. Now he's drafting ideas on how to take him down.
- Now he's chopping him up in the air.
- The time to finally take him down comes up. He doesn't speak like he could easily take him down. He says the fight will be determined by a measure of Haki. Zoro already felt his strength several times. He knows how strong he is, yet he says Haki is the determining factor of who wins, meaning they're probably relative. And even after he cut him with his strongest attack, he was checking his sword to make sure his sword wasn't scratched or anything, which would not be the case if he was far weaker.
- Zoro Vs Hawkins. Zoro flat out killed him. He survived because he has multiple lives, but he literally said he died. Then Zoro blocked a hit, and he struggled to do so. And then the Straw dude shot nails at him which made him bleed. Then he used a special hit to destroy him, killing Hawkins again.
- Zoro Vs Apoo. Apoo held his own because Zoro was pressing him badly to steal the antibodies for the ice oni virus, and Zoro only managed to put him down by hitting him off guard with one of his strongest techniques. Brook watched Zoro do this and he watched Apoo get back up, and said he was tough for it.
Zoro was never noted as equal to them in his life. He either stayed on defense and bodied them on offense, or they actually scale to him.
People can have moves stronger than their regular punches and kicks. Zoro has 2 vivre cards worth of special moves.
This is a true feat for Zoro. It's a good one. For those arguing against it, don't act like this feat doesn't exist.
For those arguing for it, don't act like this doesn't exist either. This is a real feat.
And those trying to limit his full power to his "Strongest Rokushiki", that is bs. Like to the highest caliber.
This is an average Rankyaku. At best? Mildly stronger. "Strongest Rokushiki" for Kaku to say it requires his absolute limit to be comparable to Zoro is abysmal.
He pressed S-Hawk with a barrage of Rankyakus.
And yes, S-Hawk is scaled relative to Kaku. That is not wrong.
S-Hawk should be scaled relative to Zoro. Which is weird because his justification says he does, yet he's half his yield
S-Hawk and Zoro actually clashed with each other. This wasn't even base Zoro either. This was Zoro with Busoshoku.
This is consistent, since he needed Busoshoku to fight him again later. And again.
Even if we say that he doesn't scale fully to Buso Zoro, S-Hawk pressed Zoro again.
Please do not act like Zoro is an unscalable genius.
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ayy you do you tho, gn 
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Yes it was.Was all that necessary?
If Zoro was using Busoshoku on the Seraphim and Luffy was Gear 4th fighting them as well, their durability needs to be minimum 3.014 Zettatons, as they took hits from
Gear 4th Luffy
Buso Zoro
Hybrid Lucci
Rokushiki Kaku
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A supporting feat for...well, all 4 of the guys fighting S-Hawk and S-Bear (so yes, that includes Base Kaku with nothing extra but Rokushiki) is that S-Hawk deemed them all too "troublesome" to deal with and thus left.
Also, a feat for Awakened Kaku regarding Zoro is how he at least pushed back Buso Zoro with his attack, when the same Busōshoku Zoro using Nitoryu was able to clash evenly with and only be slightly pushed back by S-Hawk.
Imagine being the only one of the 4 that isn't 3 zettatons.
But yeah I agree with this.
Also, a feat for Awakened Kaku regarding Zoro is how he at least pushed back Buso Zoro with his attack, when the same Busōshoku Zoro using Nitoryu was able to clash evenly with and only be slightly pushed back by S-Hawk.
But yeah I agree with this.
Eminiteable
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I didn't forget to mention it, the point of the listed fights were to show that Zoro narratively holds back and that clashes don't hold as much value if there is a contradicting feat; and you bringing up named techniques doesn't change that narrative because Zoro is more capable of spamming these named techniques (Daz Bones) and for Kaku specifically they aren't relevant as in both instances he overpowered him without.
Never claimed he's Goku KT, but the fact is he does "clash" with opponents despite being able to finish them off
- Hody: So you just blatantly lied, and I know this because the page you linked in was cutting off where the actual clashing happend.
- Hyouzou: you missed this page which is fair, again he "clashed' against hyouzou and as you said in your post just Zoro blocking destroyed his swords when he was serious.
- Monet: I never argued against Zoro being defensive or it just being purely blocks, but that's exactly what the majority of these "clashes" likely are, and to our knowledge the same can and probably does apply to the one panel with Kaku.
- Pica: I agree with your fight analysis KT
- Hawkins: Also valid, this was me misremembering as I didn't have access to scans.
- Apoo: I disagree, Zoro saw Kiku's arm fall from the roof and visibly changed in demeanour, he also never used his strongest technique like you're arguing or else he would have said it like he's done every time prior and every time following.
His strongest Rokushiki, aka the one Kaku himself called his strongest Rokushiki, is the sky slicer. But since you've diligently went out of the way to show that Zoro consistently has "clashes" where he's on the defensive it would seem likely that their "clash" is simply that.
I don't know why you've randomly brought out their pre-timeskip fight and tried to apply it to their egghead versions, I'd appreciate further context for this.
S-Hawk deflected his tempest kicks, if I'm being honest this isn't hard evidence of scaling to each other all it really proves is that S-Hawk scales to if not above Kaku.
You've mentioned narrative scaling before KT, so tell me this, if S-Hawk showed fear fighting against Zoro (he also ran from their fight) but not any against Kaku (took him out off-screen with Kuma and left him bandaged up the whole arc) does it make sense to scale these three relative? In my opinion It doesn't.
Getting into the scaling though, every instance of S-Hawk and Zoro fighting has been either him getting overpowered and surviving due to his lunarian durability (onigiri & shishi sonson) or Zoro blocking his strikes defensively, none of this is evidence of scaling equally.
I don't disagree with the flame on durability seraphim having that durability rating
That's a generous interpretation, but the fact is we learn later that off-sceeen he wasn't too troublesome to deal with on his own which is why he was left in bandages for the rest of the arc.
In both instance's Zoro's blocking their attack, similar to the defensive blocks KT so diligently listed in his previous post, and in both instances Zoro isn't standing on solid ground; this is relevant because Zoro doesn't have true flight, with no support he will be pushed back by anything that hits him mid-air.
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I'm honestly just gonna drop out of the thread.
Even outside of the reply above, I disagree with so much that is either on the profiles now or being proposed that it's not even worth arguing for to me and I know me arguing will do literally nothing if I don't invest every ounce of my being to it, which I'm not doing.
Keep me as neutral. I'm out
Even outside of the reply above, I disagree with so much that is either on the profiles now or being proposed that it's not even worth arguing for to me and I know me arguing will do literally nothing if I don't invest every ounce of my being to it, which I'm not doing.
Keep me as neutral. I'm out
