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Who rocks black better? (Ken Kaneki vs Taiyo Yozakura) [4-8-0] GRACE

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Sound works by the air vibrating so that's nothing special. It's likely just better hearing, although, given he jumped and knows how ghouls and doves fight, he just predicted here.
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I meant that he did it not by hearing some footsteps, but by vibrations in the air. It's just more impressive.
 
I meant that he did it not by hearing some footsteps, but by vibrations in the air. It's just more impressive.
Hearing is naturally done through vibrations in the air. He isn't doing anything special.
 
Hearing is naturally done through vibrations in the air. He isn't doing anything special.
It seems we don't understand each other. I say that hearing that detects vibrations in the air as the enemy moves is more impressive than hearing that detects footsteps.

However, this is only one interpretation. Vibrations in the air can also be felt with the skin.
 
It seems we don't understand each other. I say that hearing that detects vibrations in the air as the enemy moves is more impressive than hearing that detects footsteps.

However, this is only one interpretation. Vibrations in the air can also be felt with the skin.
If you're trying to say he heard the minute vibrations within the air, then that's already covered from me bringing up the ghoul senses.

And still Taiyo's got stealth mastery: The Yozakura Family's normal training teaches how to move silently to avoid trapdoors with sound sensors, to move and crawl. Ultimately, Taiyo being able to control his bullets like Momo would allow him to hit the shot pretty easily since that bypassed Taiyo's senses and Taiyo's now his true blooming so it'll be harder with all his other abilities.
 
However, if Kaneki has prior knowledge of the bullet, he can start with a kakuji to increase his speed and copy the kagune of other ghouls. For example, he can create a doppelganger and a force field that is not even organic.
This is a valid means of avoiding it yeah

How exactly do bullets work? His physiology is due to his body being rebuilt to accommodate the new organ. However, genetically, he is still human
The bullets are a biological power null that can nullify all Yozakura powers in its path till it hits its target and once it lands, if it breaks the skin even a little bit, whoever's on the receiving end will have their powers quickly fade away and greatly losing their strength. As Yozakura powers come from a protein in their bloodstream called Someinine. Genetically Yozakura's are also just humans, their bodies just adapted to someinine (as under normal circumstances its practically poison). This led the bullet to be Taiyo's backup wincon when he fought against Asa.

It is worth noting that Hinami is able to use her sense of hearing and touch to detect opponents and find out their exact location, which was on the roof of a building 3 blocks away.

High hearing helped Donato detect an attack from behind and block it without turning around. Judging by the fact that Amon attacked in a jump, Donato did it using air vibrations.

Kaneki, in turn, has an instinctive reaction, which will allow him to maneuver from a shot. In general, his experience against kagune will help against an attack that freely changes its trajectory
I wanna add that Taiyo at the point he got tagged by all of Momo's bullets, was able to sense the likes of Sousuke, who suppresses his breathing heartbeat and presence to the point he becomes undetectable. It also failed to trigger Shinzo's enhanced senses at all as well, who didn't even know Taiyo was attacked, even though he has this.
Taiyo also achieved similar if not better performance against Asa as Shinzo, Futaba, Shion and Kengo fighting all together did. With Shinzo having Instinctive reaction and info analysis like this, so that would be manageable.
 
The bullets are a biological power null that can nullify all Yozakura powers in its path till it hits its target and once it lands, if it breaks the skin even a little bit, whoever's on the receiving end will have their powers quickly fade away and greatly losing their strength. As Yozakura powers come from a protein in their bloodstream called Someinine. Genetically Yozakura's are also just humans, their bodies just adapted to someinine (as under normal circumstances its practically poison). This led the bullet to be Taiyo's backup wincon when he fought against Asa.
The ghoul's powers come from the structure of his body. In order to neutralize the ghoul, you need to apply a solution that causes destabilization of RC cells, and this will simply prevent the ghoul from releasing kagune. Kaneki quickly neutralized the RC depressant and got rid of its effects in the minute that he fought with Shinsanpei. At the same time, he did not even need to replenish his energy reserves. I'm just not sure if it will work on him.
I wanna add that Taiyo at the point he got tagged by all of Momo's bullets, was able to sense the likes of Sousuke, who suppresses his breathing heartbeat and presence to the point he becomes undetectable.
This is some kind of supernatural shit. The dude just stands there and holds his breath, but no one sees him.
It also failed to trigger Shinzo's enhanced senses at all as well, who didn't even know Taiyo was attacked, even though he has this.
Taiyo also achieved similar if not better performance against Asa as Shinzo, Futaba, Shion and Kengo fighting all together did. With Shinzo having Instinctive reaction and info analysis like this, so that would be manageable.
It seems to indicate that Taie has problems with such fighters. However, the ability to detect opponents by air fluctuations will play into Kaneki's hands. This is not the same as hiding your breathing or heartbeat. You can't move without moving the air around you.
 
The ghoul's powers come from the structure of his body. In order to neutralize the ghoul, you need to apply a solution that causes destabilization of RC cells, and this will simply prevent the ghoul from releasing kagune. Kaneki quickly neutralized the RC depressant and got rid of its effects in the minute that he fought with Shinsanpei. At the same time, he did not even need to replenish his energy reserves. I'm just not sure if it will work on him.
Tbf RC suppressants are much closer to things like Muscle relaxants and poison than a permanent form of power nullification (which Ghouls to my knowledge don't actually resist). Which Yozakura's also resist like ghouls do. And while the exacts of how the bullet takes away biological powers are not gone too in detail on. In order to achieve this effect on a Yozakura that the bullet induces you pretty much need to neutralize the Someinine from their bodies.

It seems to indicate that Taie has problems with such fighters. However, the ability to detect opponents by air fluctuations will play into Kaneki's hands. This is not the same as hiding your breathing or heartbeat. You can't move without moving the air around you.
Ghoul's do have great hearing, however the air fluctuations you mentioned with Donato I will say that it is possible to hear a person falling through the air when they're close enough even with normal ears and react if you're fast, which Donato is. Not that someone falling is very loud or anything, just that Taiyo's stepping on flowers (the speed amp i keep mentioning) makes Taiyo's steps as loud as a Sakura petal falling to the ground (which is plain inaudible to a normal human ear, and funny enough Taiyo compared Sosuke, the guy he sensed to it.)

Although I'll be briefly tuning out of the thread till Kaneki's CRT is approved and put on profiles since the whole thread could change based on that
 
Tbf RC suppressants are much closer to things like Muscle relaxants and poison than a permanent form of power nullification (which Ghouls to my knowledge don't actually resist). Which Yozakura's also resist like ghouls do. And while the exacts of how the bullet takes away biological powers are not gone too in detail on. In order to achieve this effect on a Yozakura that the bullet induces you pretty much need to neutralize the Someinine from their bodies.
RC depressant is not a poison. It is a substance that disrupts the integrity of the structure of RC cells, preventing them from connecting. In fact, it works the same way as the Momo bullet. However, the fact is that due to the metabolism of ghouls and the fact that they receive RC cells from an external source, this can be circumvented. Thus, it was enough for a small amount of flesh to move from a state where she is literally deprived of strength and is preparing to go to execution, to a state where she transforms a huge kakuja and goes into battle again. Kaneki, being a Haisho, was also constantly being suppressed by RC depressants, which probably blocked his RE and true strength. However, one way or another, it did not completely deprive him of his strength.I'm not sure if this will work, just because a ghoul is a physiology, not a superpower. They can have multiple cores of power, and their blood itself restores these cores. It's basically like shooting Momo's bullet at a Dragon. He will also remain a Dragon instead of turning into an ordinary lizard.
Ghoul's do have great hearing, however the air fluctuations you mentioned with Donato I will say that it is possible to hear a person falling through the air when they're close enough even with normal ears and react if you're fast, which Donato is. Not that someone falling is very loud or anything,
While Taiyo's stepping on flowers (the speed amp i keep mentioning) makes Taiyo's steps as loud as a Sakura petal falling to the ground (which is plain inaudible to a normal human ear, and funny enough Taiyo compared Sosuke, the guy he sensed to it.)
I'm not sure if the state of falling ten meters away from you has any sound at all, but that's when Donato noticed the attack. So I'll just assume it's on the same level and it'll just be useful, although it won't allow you to ignore the bullet completely.
Although I'll be briefly tuning out of the thread till Kaneki's CRT is approved and posted since the whole thread could change based on that
Thank you
 
I'm not sure if the state of falling ten meters away from you has any sound at all, but that's when Donato noticed the attack. So I'll just assume it's on the same level and it'll just be useful, although it won't allow you to ignore the bullet completely.
You can hear balls fall through the air if they're going fast enough.
 
Although I'll be briefly tuning out of the thread till Kaneki's CRT is approved and put on profiles since the whole thread could change based on that
Kaneki got the High 7-C (609 KT) and Class G (79M tons) key

I guess we can go back to the old keys because post-Dragon is now 7-C to 7-A. Or you can put them in their starting positions and not limit their forms.
 
Kaneki got the High 7-C (609 KT) and Class G (79M tons) key

I guess we can go back to the old keys because post-Dragon is now 7-C to 7-A. Or you can put them in their starting positions and not limit their forms.
You mentioned earlier in the thread that a roughly 5x difference isn't hopeless for Kaneki.
Would Blooming Taiyo vs Post Cochlea except Taiyo's allowed to power up to True Spring Blooming (3.09 Megatons) be fair against that Kaneki?
 
You mentioned earlier in the thread that a roughly 5x difference isn't hopeless for Kaneki.
Would Blooming Taiyo vs Post Cochlea except Taiyo's allowed to power up to True Spring Blooming (3.09 Megatons) be fair against that Kaneki?
Honestly, this was before I learned more about hardening. Although, maybe the piercing damage of the kagune can bypass it, because the quinque cuts the metal it is made of very easily.

This Taiyo has LS Class P and Kaneki won't be able to jump a whole LS level, at least he won't be able to do it quickly.

If we use Post-Dragon Kaneki with the initial key of High 7-C and prior knowledge, and also use Taiyo's Low 7-B and give him Momo bullets, then it might be fair.

However, I think it would be better to use the Post-Cochlea version (High 7-C) against Taiyo Blooming (High 7-C). Taiyo still has Class P threads and hardening, which will prevent injury
 
Honestly, this was before I learned more about hardening. Although, maybe the piercing damage of the kagune can bypass it, because the quinque cuts the metal it is made of very easily.

This Taiyo has LS Class P and Kaneki won't be able to jump a whole LS level, at least he won't be able to do it quickly.

If we use Post-Dragon Kaneki with the initial key of High 7-C and prior knowledge, and also use Taiyo's Low 7-B and give him Momo bullets, then it might be fair.

However, I think it would be better to use the Post-Cochlea version (High 7-C) against Taiyo Blooming (High 7-C). Taiyo still has Class P threads and hardening, which will prevent injury
switched back to Post Cochlea vs Blooming Taiyo, although just wanna clarify on if Momo's bullet should stay (and both parties get prior knowledge as OP states) or not is fair

With the Kagune with the 2x edge for Kaneki, he should be able to hurt Taiyo with his Kagune, he may not be chopping off whole limbs or anything, but he should be able to inflict shallow cuts too. Taiyo's got some good pain tolerance though, to allow him to keep fighting through these hits. I will note Since Kaneki starts at 79m tons vs Taiyo's 595m tons, catching up to Taiyo's lifting strength is possible for him.
 
switched back to Post Cochlea vs Blooming Taiyo, although just wanna clarify on if Momo's bullet should stay (and both parties get prior knowledge as OP states) or not is fair

With the Kagune with the 2x edge for Kaneki, he should be able to hurt Taiyo with his Kagune, he may not be chopping off whole limbs or anything, but he should be able to inflict shallow cuts too. Taiyo's got some good pain tolerance though, to allow him to keep fighting through these hits. I will note Since Kaneki starts at 79m tons vs Taiyo's 595m tons, catching up to Taiyo's lifting strength is possible for him.
I think it's better to give him the steel spider but limit Momo's bullet.
Post-Dragon has a better chance of blocking it. However, if you think it's fair, you can limit the bullet
 
I'll summarize my stance on the now changed Match conditions now due to the events of the Kaneki CRT and having to switch back the keys.
Similar to prior arguments, but Kaneki being able to actually Hurt Taiyo, while Taiyo will have issues inflicting lasting damage when combining AP inferiority and Kaneki's regeneration. Will prioritize a restraining strategy more really. Otherwise not too much chages.
Taiyo can't mindlessly tear through the kagune if he wants to anymore, but he could surprise Kaneki alot if Kaneki finds himself getting Judo tossed or thrown around by Taiyo grabbing his Kagune.
Taiyo should be able to restrain with steel spider pretty safely thanks to still being stronger at first (and very weirdly, AP inferiority should be slowing the RE by alot since you know, RE requires Kaneki to take damage)
If the fight does drag, it goes to Kaneki, however I think Taiyo now especially doesn't let this occur due to a lack of options.

TLDR Voting Taiyo
Yeah I'll maintain the vote.
Due to Kaneki's CRT, the conditions of the match have changed. So I'll have to take back your vote till you vote again.
 
I'll summarize my stance on the now changed Match conditions now due to the events of the Kaneki CRT and having to switch back the keys.
Similar to prior arguments, but Kaneki being able to actually Hurt Taiyo, while Taiyo will have issues inflicting lasting damage when combining AP inferiority and Kaneki's regeneration. Will prioritize a restraining strategy more really. Otherwise not too much chages.
Taiyo can't mindlessly tear through the kagune if he wants to anymore, but he could surprise Kaneki alot if Kaneki finds himself getting Judo tossed or thrown around by Taiyo grabbing his Kagune.
Taiyo should be able to restrain with steel spider pretty safely thanks to still being stronger at first (and very weirdly, AP inferiority should be slowing the RE by alot since you know, RE requires Kaneki to take damage)
If the fight does drag, it goes to Kaneki, however I think Taiyo now especially doesn't let this occur due to a lack of options.

TLDR Voting Taiyo
Does Kaneki have the ability to destroy Steel Spider with AP?
 
Does Kaneki have the ability to destroy Steel Spider with AP?
The steel spider has no conventional weaknesses really besides if you're simply stronger than it.

As the steel spider is stated to be the same as Kyoichiro's. Which has this justification. But in more detail
TSB Taiyo when he can actually focus ~ Steel spider durability (takes no damage from Taiyo's pulls and takes hits from fighters at this level) > Tsubomi Yozakura's LS and energy output (her energy output stops the behemoth from budging at all) > TSB Taiyo when he's being distracted and annoyed by Kyoichiro = the actual 3.09 Megaton and Class P feat.
So probably not unless this match drags out so much that Kaneki is deep into Low 7-B by the time Taiyo gets a hold of the guy
 
Is there a need to equalize the speed now?
Yeah, as you can see on Taiyo’s current profile.
Blooming is still only High Hypersonic.

He needs TSB to be MHS+
But if unequalized and he starts in Blooming and is allowed to transform.
Kaneki would blitz before he gets time to because it’s Mach 29 vs Mach 8000+
Can work if he starts in TSB I suppose, but the current matchup conditions and keys are fine as is
 
Yeah, as you can see on Taiyo’s current profile.
Blooming is still only High Hypersonic.

He needs TSB to be MHS+
But if unequalized and he starts in Blooming and is allowed to transform.
Kaneki would blitz before he gets time to because it’s Mach 29 vs Mach 8000+
Can work if he starts in TSB I suppose, but the current matchup conditions and keys are fine as is
It's all so confusing... I thought MHS+ would touch on almost all the keys of the verse
 
It's all so confusing... I thought MHS+ would touch on almost all the keys of the verse
Nah, hulang is one of the fastest and strongest characters in the series. So is TSB Kengo, so a lot of characters don’t get affected. With pre timeskip stuff not being changed at all, since they scale to different feats.
 
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