Goku vs Sonic | 0-0-0

[Omegabronic]

What does make Sonic more skilled, considering Goku is also >>>> the level of “master of all martial arts” in the same vein as Sonic.

you do know Sonic has more feats than that... right?

Like... that is quite low compared to Emerl, he had all martial arts + all weaponized combat + Skill levels that made the strongest Supercomputers crash, explode, and malfunction by even trying to computer it + The capacity to instantly perfectly copy any movement, technique, powers, etc, just by seeing it + Already had all of Sonic's fighting style and powers perfectly copied + A bunch of people comparable to Sonic + Being able to blend in all of these

Even with all the above... Sonic humiliated him, he beat him under 30 seconds, like... they say 30 seconds, have a full conversation, and then Sonic beat Emerl, so like... i could say 10 Seconds and it wouldn't technically be wrong

Mind you, that is all in the Adventure Era, in the Modern Era Sonic is verbatim said to be vastly better than before, can outgrow the predictions of fights made by Sage, a Super AI that can fully integrate and understand the Infinite information, self updating about the World, Cyberspace, that also had Sonic's Memories when he went inside, + She had all the data about pratically all his past fights, his biometrics, personality, etc, all his life, yet she said he couldn't win against the titans, he continued to prove her wrong

Like... That is only the more absurd stuff, Classic Sonic alone beating rather cassually a Machine that is programed with all the movement patterns of his future self and himself in years, as well as a perfect clone of himself under 30 seconds, and Metal Sonic, who had all the Skills of himself and a bunch of comparable people, under 30 seconds also, would arguably be more than a match for Goku imo

Sonic growing in skill as he fights is only the ice on top of the cake

 

[Arkansalter2]

Sonic Boost Blitzes.

 

[JJSliderman]

you do know Sonic has more feats than that... right?

Like... that is quite low compared to Emerl, he had all martial arts + all weaponized combat + Skill levels that made the strongest Supercomputers crash, explode, and malfunction by even trying to computer it + The capacity to instantly perfectly copy any movement, technique, powers, etc, just by seeing it + Already had all of Sonic's fighting style and powers perfectly copied + A bunch of people comparable to Sonic + Being able to blend in all of these

Even with all the above... Sonic humiliated him, he beat him under 30 seconds, like... they say 30 seconds, have a full conversation, and then Sonic beat Emerl, so like... i could say 10 Seconds and it wouldn't technically be wrong

Mind you, that is all in the Adventure Era, in the Modern Era Sonic is verbatim said to be vastly better than before, can outgrow the predictions of fights made by Sage, a Super AI that can fully integrate and understand the Infinite information, self updating about the World, Cyberspace, that also had Sonic's Memories when he went inside, + She had all the data about pratically all his past fights, his biometrics, personality, etc, all his life, yet she said he couldn't win against the titans, he continued to prove her wrong

Like... That is only the more absurd stuff, Classic Sonic alone beating rather cassually a Machine that is programed with all the movement patterns of his future self and himself in years, as well as a perfect clone of himself under 30 seconds, and Metal Sonic, who had all the Skills of himself and a bunch of comparable people, under 30 seconds also, would arguably be more than a match for Goku imo

Sonic growing in skill as he fights is only the ice on top of the cake

Yeah but Goku…outskilled time skip…

 

[Spinoirr]

Get the CEO of Goku skill In here

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

you do know Sonic has more feats than that... right?

Like... that is quite low compared to Emerl, he had all martial arts + all weaponized combat + Skill levels that made the strongest Supercomputers crash, explode, and malfunction by even trying to computer it + The capacity to instantly perfectly copy any movement, technique, powers, etc, just by seeing it + Already had all of Sonic's fighting style and powers perfectly copied + A bunch of people comparable to Sonic + Being able to blend in all of these

Even with all the above... Sonic humiliated him, he beat him under 30 seconds, like... they say 30 seconds, have a full conversation, and then Sonic beat Emerl, so like... i could say 10 Seconds and it wouldn't technically be wrong

Mind you, that is all in the Adventure Era, in the Modern Era Sonic is verbatim said to be vastly better than before, can outgrow the predictions of fights made by Sage, a Super AI that can fully integrate and understand the Infinite information, self updating about the World, Cyberspace, that also had Sonic's Memories when he went inside, + She had all the data about pratically all his past fights, his biometrics, personality, etc, all his life, yet she said he couldn't win against the titans, he continued to prove her wrong

Like... That is only the more absurd stuff, Classic Sonic alone beating rather cassually a Machine that is programed with all the movement patterns of his future self and himself in years, as well as a perfect clone of himself under 30 seconds, and Metal Sonic, who had all the Skills of himself and a bunch of comparable people, under 30 seconds also, would arguably be more than a match for Goku imo

Sonic growing in skill as he fights is only the ice on top of the cake

Yeah, but

One of Goku's most brilliant skill feats is his analytical and deduction skills. He was able to figure out that tien was at roshi's level while watching him fighting supressed while krillin couldn't. He was also able to deduce piccolo's power level exactly while piccolo was weighted without piccolo even fighting properly and heavily suppressed just by looking at him and piccolo did the same.
He can find flaws in battle strategies just by experiencing it once and immediately formulate a plan to swiftly win.
He can also do shit like reading someones entire moveset by watching them. He took this a step further when he watched hit beat up vegeta by just teleporting around, he deduced that it was time skip stop, and was able to counter it IN BASE FORM by simply predicting what hit is going to do in time skip stop without even seeing what he is doing. Mind you, he was able to figure this out despite hit deliberately using a stance that makes it so his moves can't be read, and hit himself is a master assassin with 1000 years of experience. They then proceeded to keep one upping each other each one improving their skip stop, predictions and stances.

And so I don't bore you anymore, this is one of my favourite skill feats from Goku.
Goku was able to match cell in combat and cell even praised his ability despite the fact that cell is basically a culmination of goku himself as well as all his rivals, enemies allies and everyone he fought against, and he has all their knowledge, power, skill, techniques, everything and better.

When Goku lost against Jiren, he fell into the spirit bomb, he lost consciousness and the spirit bomb started ripping him to shreads and killing him.
His body naturally reacted to this stimulus by using the spirit bomb as a catalyst and forced itself to learn ultra instinct on the spot to prevent Goku from getting killed by breaking it's own limits. Ultra instinct is a technque of the gods that the gods of destruction, who have hundreds of millions of years of experience in martial arts and are capable of skill stomping master martial artist, cannot achieve easily.
Goku while unconcious instinctively learned a technqiue that difficult to learn and impressive and used the power that was about to kill him as his own temporarily.

 

[ArthurBeyy]

Goku has no chance Sonic

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Like... That is only the more absurd stuff, Classic Sonic alone beating rather cassually a Machine that is programed with all the movement patterns of his future self and himself in years, as well as a perfect clone of himself under 30 seconds, and Metal Sonic, who had all the Skills of himself and a bunch of comparable people, under 30 seconds also, would arguably be more than a match for Goku imo

Sonic growing in skill as he fights is only the ice on top of the cake

Speaking of Classic stuff, Sonic beating Metal Sonic everytime (xcept that one time he got captured) despite him being able to predict his moves.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

What does make Sonic more skilled, considering Goku is also >>>> the level of “master of all martial arts” in the same vein as Sonic.

It doesn't. Both series can have martial arts masters. It's that one is more skilled than the other. Bruce Lee is a master, does that mean he's equal to someone like Baki? **** no. There are varying levels of skill. Doesn't make everyone equal level if they're called a master at something.

 

[Omegabronic]

It doesn't. Both series can have martial arts masters. It's that one is more skilled than the other. Bruce Lee is a master, does that mean he's equal to someone like Baki? **** no. There are varying levels of skill. Doesn't make everyone equal level if they're called a master at something.

pretty much this, all martial arts mastered is good and all... but more feats and contest always triumph in a skill debate

 

[Fezzih_007]

Speaking of Classic stuff, Sonic beating Metal Sonic everytime (xcept that one time he got captured) despite him being able to predict his moves.

That seems more like a fail for Metal Sonic than anything impresive.

His profile don't even listed him as EG in combat (which makes sense)

 

[Omegabronic]

That seems more like a fail for Metal Sonic than anything impresive.

His profile don't even listed him as EG in combat (which makes sense)

His profile is severely outdated tbf

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

His profile don't even listed him as EG in combat (which makes sense)

Skill Intelligence ratings in general are supposed to be like, not a thing anymore btw

 

[Fezzih_007]

His profile is severely outdated tbf

Yeah, I seeing some abilities with no scan, so I should't go too hard on It.

Skill Intelligence ratings in general are supposed to be like, not a thing anymore btw

True, I am waiting the annoucement to start removing from some of the profiles here.

 

[Omegabronic]

Skill Intelligence ratings in general are supposed to be like, not a thing anymore btw

yeah, which is why i always simply say the feats instead of "huuuuu, EG in battle, you lose, huuuuuuhh"... i am funny right? This was funny... right? please laugh

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

yeah, which is why i always simply say the feats instead of "huuuuu, EG in battle, you lose, huuuuuuhh"... i am funny right? This was funny... right? please laugh

To be fair, skill just due to beating skilled opponents might also partially be on the chopping block.

The last horseman of skill the is the idea of combat feats. In this context we mean the act of winning against a enemy under the assumption that not much information of the fight is provided. This is argument dismantled by our basic definition of Skill we have established at the beginning; Skill is the last remaining factor that decided the fact once all other possible factors have been considered and proven to not have contributed to the victory of the battle. In a actual fight, numerous factors have a play in deciding the outcome. Skill and the difference in skill are just 2 possible arguments to be made when 2 characters face off in battle. Defaulting to those factors with lack of sufficient proof makes for a faulty argument.

Worst of all, this applies to situations in which skill is undeniably involved as well. Lets assume our skill character A fights against skill character B and in their fight B uses AnaPre of, lets say 2 steps ahead. A smashes B in their fight and we now argue that A is > AnaPre of 2 steps. And that might be the case if the series treat it as such. But there are numerous other factors that could have influenced that battle; Case in point, A might just have blitzed B, skill is not infallible after all. Or B was just plain unable to read A not because of a inherent quality of A, but a inherent flaw of B's AnaPre, such as being limited to a certain realm of combat or the lack of a calm assessment of their opponent required to grasp their way of combat.

All those 4 points have 1 thing in common: They don't solve X, while completely relying on X when your goal is to find out what the value of X is, which is the level of skill. They are worthless on their own, because they don't contribute to the solving of X and as such are bad arguments to determine the skill level of a character.

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I think it's cursed how we have the potential to make early Adventure Sonic's stats on the same level of Super Dragon Ball Heroes characters

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I think it's cursed how we have the potential to make early Adventure Sonic's stats on the same level of Super Dragon Ball Heroes characters

Do it :c

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

I think it's cursed how we have the potential to make early Adventure Sonic's stats on the same level of Super Dragon Ball Heroes characters

Sonic SIMPLY scales LMAO

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

This is a massive stomp. Sonic in base officially is just supersonic in speed and Super Sonic is sub-light. Sonic in base is mountain level objectively and Super Sonic is planet level(Villains are using haxes not stats). Even Kid Goku is enough for him.

「ソニックチャンネル」スーパーソニック

ソニックが7つの「カオスエメラルド」のパワーを得て変身した無敵の姿。全身が黄金に輝き、通常のソニックをはるかに超える能力を有す。ただし変身中は極端にエネルギーを消費するため、短時間しかその姿を維持することができない。空を飛ぶことも可能。名称...

sonic.sega.jp

 

[McFriesGuy075]

This is a massive stomp. Sonic in base officially is just supersonic in speed and Super Sonic is sub-light. Sonic in base is mountain level objectively and Super Sonic is planet level(Villains are using haxes not stats). Even Kid Goku is enough for him.

「ソニックチャンネル」スーパーソニック

ソニックが7つの「カオスエメラルド」のパワーを得て変身した無敵の姿。全身が黄金に輝き、通常のソニックをはるかに超える能力を有す。ただし変身中は極端にエネルギーを消費するため、短時間しかその姿を維持することができない。空を飛ぶことも可能。名称...

sonic.sega.jp

Pfft. Get a load of this guy.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Pfft. Get a load of this guy.

A post being bias against Sonic

* the user also has one message ever on the profile

Oh brother... new user this must be, or a troll

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

LMAO this guy isn't real. Dumbass.

 

[Robo432343]

This is a massive stomp. Sonic in base officially is just supersonic in speed and Super Sonic is sub-light. Sonic in base is mountain level objectively and Super Sonic is planet level(Villains are using haxes not stats). Even Kid Goku is enough for him.

「ソニックチャンネル」スーパーソニック

ソニックが7つの「カオスエメラルド」のパワーを得て変身した無敵の姿。全身が黄金に輝き、通常のソニックをはるかに超える能力を有す。ただし変身中は極端にエネルギーを消費するため、短時間しかその姿を維持することができない。空を飛ぶことも可能。名称...

sonic.sega.jp

agree

 

[McFriesGuy075]

At least it ain't codex wiki levels of downplay

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

agree

Nice meme lol

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

A post being bias against Sonic

* the user also has one message ever on the profile

Oh brother... new user this must be, or a troll

It's not bias and I'm not a troll. You just can't prove officially that Sonic has speed stats above sub-light speed. If you can somehow, then prove it to me. I showed an official statement, so it's your turn to use something official to debunk it

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

It's not bias and I'm not a troll. You just can't prove officially that Sonic has speed stats above sub-light speed. If you can somehow, then prove it to me. I showed an official statement, so it's your turn to use something official to debunk it

You thought to immediately come here just to try and put word that sonic is only sub-light speed when both in lore and out of his own mouth him being below that measure of speed is absolutely atrocious. We are in 2025.

If you wanna try and 'downgrade sonic to sublight speed' then be my guest and make a CRT, you're gonna be having to go against not just me here but so many other people and the years of evidence worth for sonic already being stupidly above light speed . All I'll tell you is that this is not the thread for this sort of talk, head to the sonic general discussion thread instead.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

It's not bias and I'm not a troll. You just can't prove officially that Sonic has speed stats above sub-light speed. If you can somehow, then prove it to me. I showed an official statement, so it's your turn to use something official to debunk it

Faster than light since SONIC 1, yeah, from 1991.

Here's a speed of light statement for the first sonic game. This is just one of them by the way.


There's even an immeasurable statement for Sonic 2 already but just one of these aint gonna cut it

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

It's not bias and I'm not a troll. You just can't prove officially that Sonic has speed stats above sub-light speed. If you can somehow, then prove it to me. I showed an official statement, so it's your turn to use something official to debunk it

You must be new, so let me educate you since you seem ignorant.

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

Faster than light since SONIC 1, yeah, from 1991.

Here's a speed of light statement for the first sonic game. This is just one of them by the way.


There's even an immeasurable statement for Sonic 2 already but just one of these aint gonna cut it

@ZothythoTheNephalem I'll answer to both of you.
"defy gravity on the loop-to-loop and dash to safety with Sonic's red, power sneakers -- all at the speed of light." This is indicated here as just a metaphor for Sonic's high speed, and not as a direct statement for his speed, because it talks about the gameplay, which we do not take into account, because otherwise Sonic and even Super Sonic from the classics will be the wall level, because they have in the guide books for the game it is indicated that they can die from falling a large object (like a stone) on them and that Sonic can die from any attack without rings(even from spikes or falling), which is true in gameplay but not for the real characters power. We never take Sonic's words seriously because he's a braggart (which we can tell from all the games about him) and a teenager, so we can say that he's lying. "Able to run anywhere at the speed of light" is clearly a metaphor for Sonic's high speed. The Guinness pseudo record is garbage, because such a record simply doesn't exist, and Sonic has never officially been the fastest video game character, which means we don't consider the claim of being faster than the speed of light, as it falls into the same category of absolute lies. This makes sense because it's simply an advertisement designed to promote rather than provide accurate information about the characters. Sonic is often stated to have the speed of sound and to be faster than it (especially with the boost that gives Sonic the ability to run faster than the speed of sound for a short amount of time), even in exact numbers, which clearly indicates that these statements are not garbage. It is also stated that Werehog has a speed that is slower than the speed of sound, but it was able to fight Eggdragon on equal terms, who had no problem reacting and catching Sonic in his base form, which suggests that Sonic is not particularly faster than the speed of sound.

「ソニックチャンネル」ウェアホッグ

Dr.エッグマンのワナによって、夜になると変身するようになってしまったソニックの姿。腕はたくましく太くなり、牙が生え、するどい爪が伸び、全身が毛でおおわれている。超音速で駆けまわるスピードはないが、圧倒的なパワーと自在に伸びる腕を持ち、立ち...

sonic.sega.jp

「ソニックチャンネル」ソニック

どんな場所も音速で駆け抜ける、史上最速のハリネズミ。自由気ままが大好きで、曲がったことが大キライ。少し短気なところもあるけれど、困った人がいると放っておけない優しさも持っている。人生は事件と冒険の連続だと考えており、周りのルールや常識より...

sonic.sega.jp

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

You thought to immediately come here just to try and put word that sonic is only sub-light speed when both in lore and out of his own mouth him being below that measure of speed is absolutely atrocious. We are in 2025.

If you wanna try and 'downgrade sonic to sublight speed' then be my guest and make a CRT, you're gonna be having to go against not just me here but so many other people and the years of evidence worth for sonic already being stupidly above light speed . All I'll tell you is that this is not the thread for this sort of talk, head to the sonic general discussion thread instead.

Should I create a new one or write there?

 

[JJSliderman]

Sonic does have quite a few feats putting him well past lightspeed but I agree using statements to get it there is not the best.

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

Sonic does have quite a few feats putting him well past lightspeed but I agree using statements to get it there is not the best.

Which feats? Gameplay and without clear statements for distance and time don't count

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

So from what I'm reading thus far: Sonic's advantages in this fight are insanely busted AD, blitz level speed amps, arguably greater skill (though Sonic being as skilled as MUI Goku just feels so wrong), and hax that ranges from being very effective to being instant win options.

Yeah I think for the time being, I'll cast my vote for Sonic.

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

@ZothythoTheNephalem I'll answer to both of you.
"defy gravity on the loop-to-loop and dash to safety with Sonic's red, power sneakers -- all at the speed of light." This is indicated here as just a metaphor for Sonic's high speed, and not as a direct statement for his speed, because it talks about the gameplay, which we do not take into account, because otherwise Sonic and even Super Sonic from the classics will be the wall level, because they have in the guide books for the game it is indicated that they can die from falling a large object (like a stone) on them and that Sonic can die from any attack without rings(even from spikes or falling), which is true in gameplay but not for the real characters power. We never take Sonic's words seriously because he's a braggart (which we can tell from all the games about him) and a teenager, so we can say that he's lying. "Able to run anywhere at the speed of light" is clearly a metaphor for Sonic's high speed. The Guinness pseudo record is garbage, because such a record simply doesn't exist, and Sonic has never officially been the fastest video game character, which means we don't consider the claim of being faster than the speed of light, as it falls into the same category of absolute lies. This makes sense because it's simply an advertisement designed to promote rather than provide accurate information about the characters. Sonic is often stated to have the speed of sound and to be faster than it (especially with the boost that gives Sonic the ability to run faster than the speed of sound for a short amount of time), even in exact numbers, which clearly indicates that these statements are not garbage. It is also stated that Werehog has a speed that is slower than the speed of sound, but it was able to fight Eggdragon on equal terms, who had no problem reacting and catching Sonic in his base form, which suggests that Sonic is not particularly faster than the speed of sound.

「ソニックチャンネル」ウェアホッグ

Dr.エッグマンのワナによって、夜になると変身するようになってしまったソニックの姿。腕はたくましく太くなり、牙が生え、するどい爪が伸び、全身が毛でおおわれている。超音速で駆けまわるスピードはないが、圧倒的なパワーと自在に伸びる腕を持ち、立ち...

sonic.sega.jp

「ソニックチャンネル」ソニック

どんな場所も音速で駆け抜ける、史上最速のハリネズミ。自由気ままが大好きで、曲がったことが大キライ。少し短気なところもあるけれど、困った人がいると放っておけない優しさも持っている。人生は事件と冒険の連続だと考えており、周りのルールや常識より...

sonic.sega.jp

No, lol. Literally all of this is garbage. Outdated scaling and stupid reasoning. Why would the light speed statements be talking about gameplay? Literally does not make sense. If that were the case, there would LITERALLY be no gameplay as not only a game running at the speed of light is impossible, but things would end very quickly. Like, would this indicate gameplay at all? In fact, it indicating gameplay works against you as if official sources state that, gameplay-wise, Sonic is moving light speed. It being a "metaphor" is headcanon and pulled from nowhere.

All of this seems like bad faith while also using old evidence. None of it really disproves Sonic being faster than light. Sonic Generations alone should give Sonic Immeasurable speeds. Infinite speeds at the very least. Accelerating through time is a common speedster trope and that is, by definition, an Immeasurable speed feat. Even if you wanted to use appeal to reality, that would STILL make Sonic lightspeed or faster.

 

[JJSliderman]

Which feats? Gameplay and without clear statements for distance and time don't count

Sonic flying across fourth dimension space, a separate multiverse, in less than a day (Sonic Shuffle, post-Riot Train)

Sonic flying to a rift between universes in minutes (Exception in Sonic Rush)

Master Core spinning galaxies with the power of gravity and Sonic being able to control himself while under the influence of that same gravity acceleration (Sonic Riders 2 Mobius Strip)

 

[ZothythoTheNephalem]

Sonic flying across fourth dimension space, a separate multiverse, in less than a day (Sonic Shuffle, post-Riot Train)

Sonic flying to a rift between universes in minutes (Exception in Sonic Rush)

Master Core spinning galaxies with the power of gravity and Sonic being able to control himself while under the influence of that same gravity acceleration (Sonic Riders 2 Mobius Strip)

This guy is the type to say Goku wasn't faster than light before the Tournament of Power because Dyspo or that he's only the speed of light with Instant Transmission (via the mistranslation).

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

No, lol. Literally all of this is garbage. Outdated scaling and stupid reasoning. Why would the light speed statements be talking about gameplay? Literally does not make sense. If that were the case, there would LITERALLY be no gameplay as not only a game running at the speed of light is impossible, but things would end very quickly. Like, would this indicate gameplay at all? In fact, it indicating gameplay works against you as if official sources state that, gameplay-wise, Sonic is moving light speed. It being a "metaphor" is headcanon and pulled from nowhere.

All of this seems like bad faith while also using old evidence. None of it really disproves Sonic being faster than light. Sonic Generations alone should give Sonic Immeasurable speeds. Infinite speeds at the very least. Accelerating through time is a common speedster trope and that is, by definition, an Immeasurable speed feat. Even if you wanted to use appeal to reality, that would STILL make Sonic lightspeed or faster.

You didn't get what I said about gameplay. It was about pure game mechanics, involving the player in actions and other things, without focusing on the universe itself. Additionally, "all at the speed of light" and similar phrases can be used as metaphors for high speed. In the same old Batman comics, where he couldn't even react to bullets, it was mentioned that his actions occurred at the speed of light, which is clearly not the case with feats and other aspects. I'm using the most official and up-to-date information from Sega's official website, which includes unique official stories and other information about Sonic. However, when you use just advertisements that have nothing to do with the canon, as well as simple character quotes, it's not accurate.

Sonic in Sonic Generations does not have an unmeasurable speed, and it's pointless to mention a speed that can fix time, as it won't give him any speed and you won't be able to prove that it's truly unmeasurable (except for your own garbage fantasies). Also I sent statements that Werehog was at max transonic at speed, so I already won.

 

[TaoPaiPaiRUS00]

This guy is the type to say Goku wasn't faster than light before the Tournament of Power because Dispo or that he's only the speed of light with Instant Transmission (via the mistranslation).

Dispo is stated to be FASTER than light(which is any speed faster than light with bigger feats and statements), but Super Sonic is stated to be SLOWER than light. This is the difference