Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Arkenis]

Piercing blood depends on convergence which is inherently a variable technique
Ergo PB is variable as well and all are supersonic

This also why Kamo was shocked with choso convergence
According to your logic, his PB would be the same speed since he also does convergence as well

There's no such thing as Max PB, straight up doesn't exist

"And all are supersonic" Is this a typo? You're agreeing with me if it's not.

And that databook description has context. This panel is showing us Kamo and Choso doing the technique with it telling us they surpass speed of sound when compressing it to its limit. I don't disagree that the technique is supersonic, I disagree with the idea we can ignore context of how it works and what's stated and argue Choso now has compression of blood to the point it's mhs or hhs.

@Arkenis

https://i.gyazo.com/71b8acb8d0cae83bfdd773699ed0b6de.png

Translation;


From the Gaara novel, a sniper threw a supersonic kunia at him and would have bypassed his sand speed if he hadn't been to late throwing it

Yeah I don't see the point with this. Normal shinobi aren't as fast as most of the cast. Where's the trans for "late to throwing it"?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

"And all are supersonic" Is this a typo? You're agreeing with me if it's not.

And that databook description has context. This panel is showing us Kamo and Choso doing the technique with it telling us they surpass speed of sound when compressing it to its limit. I don't disagree that the technique is supersonic, I disagree with the idea we can ignore context of how it works and what's stated and argue Choso now has compression of blood to the point it's mhs or hhs.

Let me put it to you this way;
1.) Choso and Kamo both compress Thier blood and shots piercing blood a supersonic technique
2.) Said compression is what increases the speed yeah?
3.) Now kamo implies Choso has greater compression than him, the conclusion is that Choso piercing blood would be faster than Kamo right?

Also piercing blood can be shot and still not be condensed enough

What I'm saying is that the pressurisation is inherently different among users and even the same user can shoot different speeds of piercing blood due to more pressurisation

Yeah I don't see the point with this. Normal shinobi aren't as fast as most of the cast. Where's the trans for "late to throwing it"?

Most of the cast includes kabuto who's has a processing speed of 360km/hr and kakashi who can't cross ten metres in a few seconds (pain fight)

 

[Arkenis]

What I'm saying is that the pressurisation is inherently different among users and even the same user can shoot different speeds of piercing blood due to more pressurisation

And I'm saying Gege doesn't present it that way. Gege tells us that Choso's and kamo's the only two people who use PB compress and condense it to its limit and launch it at supersonic speeds. Nothing else. We aren't told they can compress it more.

3.) Now kamo implies Choso has greater compression than him, the conclusion is that Choso piercing blood would be faster than Kamo right?

Yeah again I don't disagree that they both can compress it to reach supersonic speeds. I disagree with ignoring this statement and asserting they can now do this to higher speeds because of other feats. It isn't founded in anything but powerscaler brainrot. "Character have vague stated speed, other character do feat, I calc, now vague speed that speed." Is not consistent with the portrayal of it in the manga.

Most of the cast includes kabuto who's has a processing speed of 360km/hr and kakashi who can't cross ten metres in a few seconds (pain fight)

Already responded to this. And when was it stated a few seconds?

Kishimoto getting how fast Kabuto's synapses should be at sub-rel wrong, is pretty small in comparison to the speed scale and is a standard trope that authors aren't trying to get everything accurate. Gege's trying that, just failing at times like Kishimoto did. I do wonder what the supporters have to say about this. And Kabuto's profile is really outdated, I can see them downgrading him since what their scaling Tsunade to is part 2 Kakashi who got stronger. It's noted in Tsunade's page Kabuto was amped by pills, so normally he shouldn't be that high scaling wise.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

And I'm saying Gege doesn't present it that way. Gege tells us that Choso's and kamo's the only two people who use PB compress and condense it to its limit and launch it at supersonic speeds. Nothing else. We aren't told they can compress it more.

"The greater the pressure exerted by Convergence the greater the speed and strength of piercing blood"

Of course he said that
Plus implicit showing like Choso stating his Piercing blood against Yuji wasn't condensed enough and kamo getting shocked by choso pressurisation

If convergence was a done deal and couldn't be increased then kamo and choso would have the same piercing blood speed

Yeah again I don't disagree that they both can compress it to reach supersonic speeds. I disagree with ignoring this statement and asserting they can now do this to higher speeds because of other feats. It isn't founded in anything but powerscaler brainrot. "Character have vague stated speed, other character do feat, I calc, now vague speed that speed." Is not consistent with the portrayal of it in the manga.

What's wrong with that
Powerscaler brain rot isn't an argument

The Databook literally states the technique stated to compress blood to its limit is variable in nature and it's pressurisation can be increased

And there's nothing wrong with that argument, and it's not being calced it's being scaled

Meaning "hey this guy does a better feat but Yuji holding him down and shooting piercing blood should be Mach 1, why? Well because Piercing blood shouldn't be that much faster than sound" isn't an argument

Already responded to this. And when was it stated a few seconds?

You didn't read the pain and Kazuku fight?

 

[Giannysmag]

pain and Kazuku fight

You just gave me PTSD of the Pain vs Kakuzu debates from a few years ago

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

You just gave me PTSD of the Pain vs Kakuzu debates from a few years ago

Punishment for not glazing Wuta

 

[Giannysmag]

Punishment for not glazing Wuta

When the brat with limitless CE starts yapping about true love and shit so you gotta hit them with the true top 3 stare

 

[BahamutQ0]

Might just be a Sendai Yuta victim.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Gai sneaking kenjaku to top 3 conversations when he's honestly a Yuji victim

 

[Giannysmag]

Gai

It is impressive to me how every single person on this forum has come up with a different way of spelling my name. I've heard everything, Gin, Gianni, Gimnaeng

sneaking kenjaku to top 3 conversations when he's honestly a Yuji victim

This hurts my soul cause I really wanna glaze Yuji but does genuienly lose to Kenny

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

It is impressive to me how every single person on this forum has come up with a different way of spelling my name. I've heard everything, Gin, Gianni, Gimnaeng

I'm an artist (I'm selectively ********)

This hurts my soul cause I really wanna glaze Yuji but does genuienly lose to Kenny

"You lack the hunger to push your agendas
You should have glazed without context or thinking
To truly reach the heights of Gun and Light"

 

[Giannysmag]

"You lack the hunger to push your agendas
You should have glazed without context or thinking
To truly reach the heights of Gun and Light"

"You are right Oje, I am you. I wanted to reject you, convience myself that I was a scaler of logic and not of agenda. But that doesn't matter now, cause I'm gonna glaze Yuji to top 3. Even if you come at me with arguments, I'll still glaze Yuji to top 3. Change your arguments, change your agenda, I'll glaze him again. I don't need logic or reason.

Maybe a hundred years from now the logic behind my agenda will become apparent. In the grand scheme of things I'm probably nothing more than another fan who can't read. But I'll keep glazing Yuji for as long as I can, that is my agenda in all of this."

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If Yuta fights Kenjaku on his own

 

[Arkenis]

If convergence was a done deal and couldn't be increased then kamo and choso would have the same piercing blood speed

We literally have no stated speed for either. Just vaguely above sos

The Databook literally states the technique stated to compress blood to its limit is variable in nature and it's pressurisation can be increased

This is fundamentally different when we're discussing two characters who barely change in the story. You are arguing for variables in a limited system and acting as those there can be an incredibly low and high difference within it. So while it can vary, I do not think it varies by hundreds of times.

And there's nothing wrong with that argument, and it's not being calced it's being scaled

I'm talking about saying that one ability with a stated vague speed now can be scaled hundreds of times because someone made a calc for some other ability that a character dodged, e.i, scaling Yuji or Choso's PB to MHS because someone calced Hakari dodging lightning.

Meaning "hey this guy does a better feat but Yuji holding him down and shooting piercing blood should be Mach 1, why? Well because Piercing blood shouldn't be that much faster than sound" isn't an argument

Yeah it's not an argument, it's going with what the story tells us.

You didn't read the pain and Kazuku fight?

I did. I'm asking you when was a timeframe stated in the fight.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

We literally have no stated speed for either. Just vaguely above sos

No shit, that's my entire argument wtf

This is fundamentally different when we're discussing two characters who barely change in the story. You are arguing for variables in a limited system and acting as those there can be an incredibly low and high difference within it. So while it can vary, I do not think it varies by hundreds of times.

It can just like every technique can
Evidence check every duo with the same technique
A good example would be yorozu and Mai

I'm talking about saying that one ability with a stated vague speed now can be scaled hundreds of times because someone made a calc for some other ability that a character dodged, e.i, scaling Yuji or Choso's PB to MHS because someone calced Hakari dodging lightning.

It would scale the same way a Kamehameha or a Gestuga tensho would
What that means is that Piercing blood can't be used as an Anti-feat for people scaling higher

Yeah it's not an argument, it's going with what the story tells us.

Nah story never told you that

I did. I'm asking you when was a timeframe stated in the fight.

??
You forgot shinra Tensei 5 seconds interval or Rasenshuriken only lasting for a few seconds and running out before Naruto reaches Kazuku?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

If Yuta fights Kenjaku on his own

He folds that bum
Accept it bro

 

[Arkenis]

No shit, that's my entire argument wtf

Then idk why you are in such disagreement with what I'm saying.

It can just like every technique can
Evidence check every duo with the same technique
A good example would be yorozu and Mai

Again a limited system. We also have no clue if there's any real difference besides ce amount. Can Yorozu create more than one object a day or she is limited just like Mai.

It would scale the same way a Kamehameha or a Gestuga tensho would
What that means is that Piercing blood can't be used as an Anti-feat for people scaling higher

You're arguing apples and oranges at this point lmao. Kamehameha has no stated vague speed and has various users and feats to make it's scaling varied. Ichigo's Getsuga is generally applicable to his speed amps considering he fights people who either scale to him or scale above him and then have their own amps to combat it. So we aren't using PB as an antifeat, we're using it as a measure for the rest of the cast. That's the issue also, you're viewing it as an antifeat, when it's not.

Nah story never told you that

It did but okay.

You forgot shinra Tensei 5 seconds interval or Rasenshuriken only lasting for a few seconds and running out before Naruto reaches Kazuku?

I need to know what scenes you're talking about when its shinra tensei. And you mean when Naruto ran to Kakuzu with it?

Powerscaler brain rot isn't an argument

Ik it's not but I'm bringing that up because it's generally the issue with most verse's scaling metas. Everyone tries to apply this higher interpretable logic for the metas where they would never apply it to real life.

For instance, we have two people who are good at basketball. Both have the skills to go to the NBA as they both surpass your average HS player and play at the college level. We're asked how good do you think they could become? I say, they could definitely be in the NBA and you say they could definitely be Lebron James or Stephen Curry. What you are doing is going with the higher end interpretation of the NBAs' players, while I am going with them being your standard NBA player. You're asked why do you think they could be that good, and you start naming other people in other sports as a measurement for their success in their sport.

You are arguing for higher interpretations within the system by going outside it and arguing it can be perceived as high as other systems. One system has a vague capacity for the variables to be higher or low, the other one has random points: Hakari has MHS, Sukuna has FTL, Kashimo has LS, Maki has Mach 3.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Then idk why you are in such disagreement with what I'm saying.

Because we're talking past each other

My position is that piercing blood has no set speed and convergence speed can be increased

You agree with this premise but believe in very high speeds yeah?

Again a limited system. We also have no clue if there's any real difference besides ce amount. Can Yorozu create more than one object a day or she is limited just like Mai.

Obviously she's higher
She can create an orb larger than her made of liquid metal, that's straight up above whatever Mai created soul sword included

You're arguing apples and oranges at this point lmao. Kamehameha has no stated vague speed and has various users and feats to make it's scaling varied. Ichigo's Getsuga is generally applicable to his speed amps considering he fights people who either scale to him or scale above him and then have their own amps to combat it. So we aren't using PB as an antifeat, we're using it as a measure for the rest of the cast. That's the issue also, you're viewing it as an antifeat, when it's not.

If you're not using it as an Anti-feat what's then the point of saying so and so person cannot be that fast because he got tagged by piercing blood?

It did but okay.

Didn't

I need to know what scenes you're talking about when its shinra tensei. And you mean when Naruto ran to Kakuzu with it?

Yeah it dissipates before he could land it

Ik it's not but I'm bringing that up because it's generally the issue with most verse's scaling metas. Everyone tries to apply this higher interpretable logic for the metas where they would never apply it to real life.

For instance, we have two people who are good at basketball. Both have the skills to go to the NBA as they both surpass your average HS player and play at the college level. We're asked how good do you think they could become? I say, they could definitely be in the NBA and you say they could definitely be Lebron James or Stephen Curry. What you are doing is going with the higher end interpretation of the NBAs' players, while I am going with them being your standard NBA player. You're asked why do you think they could be that good, and you start naming other people in other sports as a measurement for their success in their sport.

You are arguing for higher interpretations within the system by going outside it and arguing it can be perceived as high as other systems. One system has a vague capacity for the variables to be higher or low, the other one has random points: Hakari has MHS, Sukuna has FTL, Kashimo has LS, Maki has Mach 3.

So it's a site issue then
Randomised points doesn't mean it's not valid tho?

 

[Giannysmag]

I have a plan to make friends with as many mods on the forum as possible so that when someone is mildly annoying to me I can be like "MODS TWIST HIS NUTS COUNTERCLOCK WISE" like streamers do/jk

 

[Arkenis]

My position is that piercing blood has no set speed and convergence speed can be increased

You agree with this premise but believe in very high speeds yeah?

I agree there is no set speed but I disagree there is room for a higher interpretation than "exceeds speed of sound".

Obviously she's higher
She can create an orb larger than her made of liquid metal, that's straight up above whatever Mai created soul sword included

This just shows she has more CE to do so. There's nothing specific for it.

If you're not using it as an Anti-feat what's then the point of saying so and so person cannot be that fast because he got tagged by piercing blood?

I have probably said I agree high tiers are hypersonic like twice in the last couple pages. If you missed that or I'm confusing you, I do not believe characters aren't fast as or faster than Piercing Blood.

Yeah it dissipates before he could land it

And you're saying that doesn't make sense because he should be able to run fast enough to cover the distance? This would mean it dissipates too fast, not that Naruto's travel speed is basic human level.

So it's a site issue then
Randomised points doesn't mean it's not valid tho?

Not a site issue, more just burden of proof. Randomized points and comparing it to a limited system with a semi-understood variable threshold wouldn't be invalid outright but it would require more to do so.

I'm gonna try and explain better.

The first issue is that Piercing Blood already has us meeting a criteria for an increase, that is the compression. While we have it stated compression can be done to increase speed, we have it stated that the maximum compression exceeds the speed of sound. This is deliberately brought up in correspondence to the prime users of Piercing Blood. This is no longer a general statement, because in context, it addresses the majority directly, Choso and Kamo. And we know this through the manga page where it's said and the databook where it's said. This means the statement is meant for them, it's not just meant with them in mind. And since that is the case, we need something more to argue that their increase from vaguely above sos can reach dozens of times higher, if you go with the characters being mhs, then you're arguing for >100x. And we don't have more to suggests PB for Choso or Yuji are faster than we previously saw it be. In fact Yuji's convergence is ineffective; what is the logic behind it being above Kamo in Goodwill or Choso in Shibuya if it's inferior period?

An example of this in verse is the grade ranks; we're told that tank shells might be useless against them. This generally means that first grades > tank shells. If this statement had been in equal context to Choso and Kamo as in we only ever got to see two first grades spirits, then it'd be in the same boat with a limited pool to gauge the validity off of it.

 

[Arkenis]

I have a plan to make friends with as many mods on the forum as possible so that when someone is mildly annoying to me I can be like "MODS TWIST HIS NUTS COUNTERCLOCK WISE" like streamers do

Put fire emojis and laughing emojis so mods know ur joking

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I have a plan to make friends with as many mods on the forum as possible so that when someone is mildly annoying to me I can be like "MODS TWIST HIS NUTS COUNTERCLOCK WISE" like streamers do

Mods. Twist Gianny’s nuts.

Also. I don’t see an issue with scaling PB higher for stronger characters. It’s the level in which we scale it higher that I think is the biggest issue. PB has no stated speed ceiling but if we scale them all to, say, MHS+ during Shinjuku then that means that Choso somehow managed to make PB thousands of times faster than how it was in Shibuya in just a month which is an issue. Unless you want to say that it was always MHS+ which also presents a similar issue of backscaling

 

[Giannysmag]

Put fire emojis and laughing emojis so mods know ur joking

Good idea, can't let them see through my Aizen level scheme

 

[Giannysmag]

Mods. Twist Gianny’s nuts.

Nice try but those where my decoy balls

 

[LIGHTYW]

Posted John Werry already invalid.

THIS IS LIGHTNING TRANSLATION

 

[LIGHTYW]

Gun Vs Light

U REALLY SAYING THAT TO A KNOWLEDGEABLE MEMBER IN JJK?

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

GG DEBATE OVER GET DEBUNKED

It's funny as to how you're this ignorant to the difference between a author statement and a character statement, especially in one who is currently dying and assumes that this is the Trump card that he and Kusakabe + few others thought to be something Sukuna hid. When people in JJK near death (Jogo, Nobara etc) they get suddenly plunged in a different "space". After Gojo got out of that space Sukuna proceeded to explain to him what he did for Gojo to understand. So light, are you finally able to comprehend this yet? It shouldn't be that difficult to understand Gojo is after all a human being and not a narrator. What he sees and experiences, whether it be wrong or not, is what he sees. If I hit you with a world slash and you thought this was my hidden trump card all along, but then I tell you that I only recently gained this moments ago, is your previous thought still true? The answer is no. Hopefully this is clear enough for you.

 

[Giannysmag]

So light, are you finally able to comprehend this yet?

Why is bro talking like an anime villain .
"Do you even understand the difference in our power" ahh

 

[LIGHTYW]

It's funny as to how you're this ignorant to the difference between a author statement and a character statement, especially in one who is currently dying and assumes that this is the Trump card that he and Kusakabe + few others thought to be something Sukuna hid. When people in JJK near death (Jogo, Nobara etc) they get suddenly plunged in a different "space". After Gojo got out of that space Sukuna proceeded to explain to him what he did for Gojo to understand. So light, are you finally able to comprehend this yet? It shouldn't be that difficult to understand Gojo is after all a human being and not a narrator. What he sees and experiences, whether it be wrong or not, is what he sees. If I hit you with a world slash and you thought this was my hidden trump card all along, but then I tell you that I only recently gained this moments ago, is your previous thought still true? The answer is no. Hopefully this is clear enough for you.

NO, NO, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, AND GOJO ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT HE WOULD GET ONESHOTTED ANYWAYS BY THE "TRUMP CARD", HE WOULDNT SAY HE WAS "UNSURE" ABOUT WINNING AGAINST SUKUNA WITHOUTH 10S, HE WOULD SIMPLY SAY HE WOULD LOSE ANYWAYS, AND THAT NARRATIVELY DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE BRO
IF THAT WAS GEGE'S INTENTION, THEN HE WOULD EXPLAIN OR MAKE GOJO SAY THAT HE DIDNT HAD A CHANCE AFTER ALL, DUE TO HIS POV FROM THE "TRUMP CARD", WHICH DIDNT HAPPENED, AND WE SEE GOJO STILL THINKING THAT HE WOULD HAVE A HIGH CHANCE TO WIN IF HE FOUGHT SUKUNA WITHOUTH 10S, WHICH JUST SHOWS HOW GOJO WASNT SAYING ALL THAT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT " OH, SUKUNA SIMPLY DIDNT WANT TO KILL ME UNTIL NOW "
NOT TO MENTION THAT GOJO SAID THIS WHEN SUKUNA ASKED HIM IF HE WANTED TO FIGHT AGAINST HIS TRUE FORM

 

[Arkenis]

THIS IS LIGHTNING TRANSLATION

lowkey might be worse given how ur using it

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

NO, NO, IF THAT WAS THE CASE,

Do you not know what the difference between a author statement and a character statement is? Do you think Gojo himself wrote a book called the Gojo booklet or something?

AND GOJO ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT HE WOULD GET ONESHOTTED ANYWAYS BY THE "TRUMP CARD", HE WOULDNT SAY HE WAS "UNSURE" ABOUT WINNING AGAINST SUKUNA WITHOUTH 10S

He didn't think he'd get one shotted. Where is that said?
He would of course say he's unsure about how the battle would go? He's after all mentioning a hypothetical which would basically be the same Gojo who is pre Sukuna fight including memories. Gege himself thinks that Gojo could narrowly dodge the slash being fatal for him if his guard wasn't down, so ofc he'd be unsure especially given that he doesn't know he did a BV or that he can't do it without hand sign etc. These are all things Gojo doesn't know about. To him that Trump card being world slash is still full of mysteries to him.

HE WOULD SIMPLY SAY HE WOULD LOSE ANYWAYS,

Not really.

AND THAT NARRATIVELY DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE BRO
IF THAT WAS GEGE'S INTENTION, THEN HE WOULD EXPLAIN OR MAKE GOJO SAY THAT HE DIDNT HAD A CHANCE AFTER ALL, DUE TO HIS POV FROM THE "TRUMP CARD", WHICH DIDNT HAPPENED, AND WE SEE GOJO STILL THINKING THAT HE WOULD HAVE A HIGH CHANCE TO WIN IF HE FOUGHT SUKUNA WITHOUTH 10S, WHICH JUST SHOWS HOW GOJO WASNT SAYING ALL THAT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT " OH, SUKUNA SIMPLY DIDNT WANT TO KILL ME UNTIL NOW "
NOT TO MENTION THAT GOJO SAID THIS WHEN SUKUNA ASKED HIM IF HE WANTED TO FIGHT AGAINST HIS TRUE FORM

When will you ever speak coherently and read the manga is a question I ponder on whenever I interact with you

 

[PowerToScale]

Mods. Twist Gianny’s nuts.

Also. I don’t see an issue with scaling PB higher for stronger characters. It’s the level in which we scale it higher that I think is the biggest issue. PB has no stated speed ceiling but if we scale them all to, say, MHS+ during Shinjuku then that means that Choso somehow managed to make PB thousands of times faster than how it was in Shibuya in just a month which is an issue. Unless you want to say that it was always MHS+ which also presents a similar issue of backscaling

I mean big jumps aren't anything new. Yuji goes to supressed Yuta levels with partial Rika to fighting on equal with him against Sukuna when at full strength.

Everyone during shinjuku got a big power up, its the classic shonen powercliffing method. Nothing new

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean big jumps aren't anything new. Yuji goes to supressed Yuta levels with partial Rika to fighting on equal with him against Sukuna when at full strength.

Everyone during shinjuku got a big power up, its the classic shonen powercliffing method. Nothing new

That jump is like in the tens of times, below 100x boost in terms of AP at least going off of what we currently scale everyone to. In comparison that type of speed jump to MHS+ would be thousands to tens of thousands depending on the character. They also didn't improve their abilities above the level of even people like Ryu who Yuta could still reliably harm and was only a bit lower than during CG. The jump isn't the issue it's the level of the jump as well as how they're compared to other characters which I think is the issue. Like I brought up in another post before it also makes literally every sorcerer outside of the anti-sukuna squad seem like morons if these guys could train for a month and reach this level but they couldn't.

As for the shonen powercreep thing, honestly JJK kind of holds back on that a lot. Like I mentioned previously, the characters are still at most Ryu level and may even be below it for a few of them. Uraume and Kenjaku are still considered threats despite not growing in terms of stats and being compared to other characters in terms of stats (Mostly talking about the fact that Sendai Yuta and Yuki were still comparable and the latter could still harm Kenjaku and keep up with him in a weakened state). JJK doesn't really suffer from powercreep as much as other series. They definitely do get stronger but a lot of earlier characters could still be reasonable threats to a few of the later characters as well.

I would also specifically bring up Hakari somehow not beating Uraume who could only barely react to a PB from Choso prior to training despite the fact he likely trained with the others, was still considered a heavy hitter, and it's never implied that Uraume grew stronger but on the other hand if we do go with that level of a boost it means that Hakari is a bum who trained and still couldn't beat an Uraume who didn't train and that's peak.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I would also specifically bring up Hakari somehow not beating Uraume who could only barely react to a PB from Choso prior to training despite the fact he likely trained with the others, was still considered a heavy hitter, and it's never implied that Uraume grew stronger but on the other hand if we do go with that level of a boost it means that Hakari is a bum who trained and still couldn't beat an Uraume who didn't train and that's peak.

I mean, can we stop treating Uraume like some fodder, for real? Their Cursed Technique is one of the best in the verse for negging opponents. Not to mention, they survived Gojo's attack. I don't see how Hakari is supposed to kill them just with a power up when all he does is punch and kick. Uraume did get blitzed by his speed, though. He only got tagged while in mid-air.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean, can we stop treating Uraume like some fodder, for real? Their Cursed Technique is one of the best in the verse for negging opponents. Not to mention, they survived Gojo's attack. I don't see how Hakari is supposed to kill them just with a power up when all he does is punch and kick. Uraume did get blitzed by his speed, though. He only got tagged while in mid-air.

That wasn't meant to portray Uraume as fodder. When I did a whole tier list for pretty much the whole verse I put Uraume at just below most of the special grades cause honestly I think they beat pretty much anyone below them (barring poor type match ups). It was meant to be a comparison for speed. Uraume was tagged by a weaker Choso's PB which, if we're assuming is still only supersonic, means that Hakari would either have to be the same level and have not trained at all to be comparable to Uraume and slow enough to let them react to him or Uraume is simultaneously below supersonic PB but only a bit below MHS+ Hakari.

Also was meant to be slander for the gambling bum Hakari

 

[CloverDragon03]

Still I don't think there's been many verses in recent years where something was so consistent. BC went through a major cap for their earlier arcs where everyone or most are only rel due to big speed statements about LS being the fastest or something. HST have all went through their many caps and uncaps as well.

When we have speed caps like this, we apply them. I did that with BC recently, I don't see why JJK should be any different. I really don't understand the hoops being jumped through to try and avoid such a blatant statement that's consistent with other similarly blatant statements

 

[PowerToScale]

When we have speed caps like this, we apply them. I did that with BC recently, I don't see why JJK should be any different. I really don't understand the hoops being jumped through to try and avoid such a blatant statement that's consistent with other similarly blatant statements

Outside of the arguments regarding calcs and them showing inconsistencies and whatnot. This line of reasoning only works if you ignore everything else or down play it to Gege mistakes. To simply put feats of other characters showcase that certain characters are exempt from the "Mach 3 cap" with Maki herself being one of them.

It's quite literally Mach 3 cap is author intent but everything else isn't was a mistake on their part.

The whole scaling for JJK is more complex that "OHH look he said Mach 3, everyone is slower than that now"

 

[PowerToScale]

That jump is like in the tens of times, below 100x boost in terms of AP at least going off of what we currently scale everyone to. In comparison that type of speed jump to MHS+ would be thousands to tens of thousands depending on the character. They also didn't improve their abilities above the level of even people like Ryu who Yuta could still reliably harm and was only a bit lower than during CG. The jump isn't the issue it's the level of the jump as well as how they're compared to other characters which I think is the issue. Like I brought up in another post before it also makes literally every sorcerer outside of the anti-sukuna squad seem like morons if these guys could train for a month and reach this level but they couldn't.

Jump like that are pretty generic in fiction, unless we are now policing the levels character jumps. Also the whole anti-Sukuna squad quite literally had the best team for training.

• Gojo to train them
• Kusakabe regarded as the strongest grade 1 with excellent knowledge and showings of simple domain skills
• MeiMei and her brother all0wing them to learn a skill and provide switch body training
• Yuta, Hakari and Maki top tiers being able to pass on knowledge and experience
• Yuki's soul book knowledge
• Yuji getting blood manipulation teachings from Choso and Kamo
• Yuji getting the brothers to eat
• Yuji learning Sukuna technique and energy control from the after effects on his body
• Yuji's and Angel's shared body experiences to help target
• The most important one a whole month of proper life and death training and strengthening and not simple school training

To think the level jump is unnatural or too big especially in yuji's case as he was the example is pretty disingenuous

As for the shonen powercreep thing, honestly JJK kind of holds back on that a lot. Like I mentioned previously, the characters are still at most Ryu level and may even be below it for a few of them. Uraume and Kenjaku are still considered threats despite not growing in terms of stats and being compared to other characters in terms of stats (Mostly talking about the fact that Sendai Yuta and Yuki were still comparable and the latter could still harm Kenjaku and keep up with him in a weakened state). JJK doesn't really suffer from powercreep as much as other series. They definitely do get stronger but a lot of earlier characters could still be reasonable threats to a few of the later characters as well.

I would also specifically bring up Hakari somehow not beating Uraume who could only barely react to a PB from Choso prior to training despite the fact he likely trained with the others, was still considered a heavy hitter, and it's never implied that Uraume grew stronger but on the other hand if we do go with that level of a boost it means that Hakari is a bum who trained and still couldn't beat an Uraume who didn't train and that's peak.

The whole Uruame not growing of staying the same only works if you believe that they do. Uruame simply could have been holding back or gotten stronger over the course of the story as well. With evidence for both, with the main ones being Uruame being hurt by a PB, to surviving a punch from Gojo, to surviving a blast of hollow purple within the same radius as Sukuna. and with speed we see despite being caught off guard, he still reacts and blocks it after it reaches his face, more evidently in the anime (which Gege oversees). Or catching Maki in his ice after this same Maki is able to react, dodge and move in tandem with Naoya, and after that when fully healed react and block lightning.

So it clear that Uruame isn't a stagnant character in terms of power, clearly showcasing more as the story goes. So characters going barely Naoya to Ryu levels is not hard to believe or think is ridiculous

 

[CloverDragon03]

Personally I think people just need to accept when their verse's speed is capped but that's just me idk

 

[PowerToScale]

accept nothing without proper understanding, this is VSBW, we don't do half ass scaling.... actual maybe we do