Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Giannysmag]

Travel speed as an idea is far more tied to Vs Debaters than it is to any other space. Most people don't separate speed the way we do on the site.

Tbf separating travel speed from combat speed to some degree makes sense, same way we seperate striking and lifting strength. Usain Bolt can't punch as fast as he can run and vice versa for heavy weight boxers. But when the gap betwen the two becomes as absurd as "MFTL reaction/combat speed, Peak human travel speed" or smth then the whole travel=/=combat thing just turns into a crutch to ignore potential anti-feats

 

[Arkenis]

Mach 3 isn't a direct statement for most of the verse either though. Not to mention, Maki and Noritoshi as reliable sources for the verse's speed is even more dubious than characters in the likes of BC or One Piece or Naruto (as they're still relatively unlearned sorcerer's who have a much more limited perspective on the world than the other verses) yet they're treated like their words are king (Maki is treated as an authority in so many places she shouldn't be in the verse, especially with her lack of CE but here we are).

It's a direct statement above character widely recognized as the faster who is below supersonic. The narrator said it not Maki and Kamo.

This is what I'm talking about. If Light magic is the fastest magic, and light magic has an entire spell which is about moving at the speed of it, then logically no one should be able to outspeed it, only match it at best.

I can agree with that.

Travel speed as an idea is far more tied to Vs Debaters than it is to any other space. Most people don't separate speed the way we do on the site.

In the past but recently that has become a more recognized thing. Still I think its best to separate us from outside coms.

We have multiple feats which show characters dodging, catching or deflecting, Supersonic projectiles up close and personal (Yuji, Kenjaku, Sukuna, Maki).

I think we all acknowledge or mostly understand the verse isn't all below mach 3. Like we have all these characters supersonic+ profile and have several hypersonic calcs. So on forums we know the high tiers are supersonic+ to hypersonic.

Sukuna literally moves so fast piercing blood looks frozen perspectivewise.

That didn't happen? It clearly moved the distance to his position after he evaded and I think this was calced but rejected due to how it was calced.

However, we consistently lowball or outright discount those feats.

We don't, it's that the calc is wrong.

Then we have characters covering vast distances in small windows of time (Sukuna mostly, Gojo kinda but he has teleport so its dubious).

Sukuna in Shibuya was calced and then rejected due to disagreeably but understandable reasoning iirc.

We have just everything surrounding Kashimo and Hakari (where Hakari literally exhales electricity as its destroying his brain not even to mention his earlier dodge of the attack when it attempted to target his brain, which Gege literally got a consultant from Dr Stone to help make sure he was accurate in how he was breaking it down) or Kashimo attacking with beams of light which Sukuna is able to counter with an attack of his own after the attack has been made. Not to mention Gojo being able to time blackflashes easily.

I'd agree with this if we didn't have to ignore Naobito's statement as the fastest, ignore Maki needing precog to keep up with mach 3, Maki being a prominent speed based character in the verse, and of course the insane mental gymnastics needed for us to dismiss Piercing Bloood as only exceeding sos and somehow accepting it now is the speed of lightning or higher simply because of other feats. Sukuna reacting to it is pretty hard to reject on its own but when you put it into context it kinda looks like the funniest feat ever. Although, I can get down with Sukuna and Gojo being FTL if everyone wasn't also watching them fight on camera lmao. Maybe for consistency, I could accept Sukuna's not trying hard after his light speed feat.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Mach 3 is only one statement next to all of that, yet it is given far more importance than any of it.

I dont think any of yall know this and I doubt anybody bothered to properly understand what the narrator said even got a proper perfect translation for it or even understand what it is actually referring to - but tcb's got it roughly correct


From what I can understand (somebody pointed this out to me before and I didn't notice it, hence why I looked into it) The narrator actually IS not saying that Naoya himself is moving that fast himself. Just gonna yoink and copy paste this from something for yall to have fun with fr
[Let's break down the sentence kanji-by-kanji and analyze if it implies that Naoya's body is moving at Mach 3, or if it’s only the air intake that reaches Mach 3.

---

1. Full Sentence
呪霊 直哉の体は音速で吸気口から取り込んだ空気を
ラム圧と呪力で圧縮し体外へ排気することで更に推進力を得る
その速度はマッハ3に達する

---

2. Kanji by Kanji Breakdown

First Line:
呪霊 直哉の体は音速で吸気口から取り込んだ空気を

呪霊 (じゅれい, jurei) = "Cursed Spirit"

• 直哉 (なおや, Naoya) = Name (Naoya)
• の (no) = Possessive particle, making "Naoya's body" the subject.
• 体 (からだ, karada) = "body"
• は (wa) = Topic particle (topic = Naoya's body)
• 音速 (おんそく, onsoku) = "speed of sound" (refers to the speed of sound, not Mach 3 yet)
• で (de) = Particle indicating "by means of" (modifies how something is done, i.e., "at supersonic speed")
• 吸気口 (きゅうきこう, kyūkikō) = "air intake" or "air inlet"
• から (kara) = "from"
• 取り込んだ (とりこんだ, torikonda) = "taken in" (past tense of "take in" or "absorb")
• 空気 (くうき, kūki) = "air"
• を (wo/o) = Direct object particle (marks "air" as the thing being acted upon)

Literal translation of first line:
"Naoya's body takes in air at the speed of sound from an intake."

Second Line:

ラム圧と呪力で圧縮し体外へ排気することで更に推進力を得る

• ラム圧 (らむあつ, ramuatsu) = "ram pressure" (pressure created by moving air)
• と (to) = "and" (links "ram pressure" and "cursed energy")
• 呪力 (じゅりょく, juryoku) = "cursed energy"
• で (de) = Particle indicating "by means of" or "using"
• 圧縮 (あっしゅく, asshuku) = "compression"
• し (shi) = Stem form of する (to do) (this links the action of compressing with the next action)
• 体外 (たいがい, taigai) = "outside the body" (referring to "outside Naoya's body")
• へ (e) = Direction particle ("to" or "toward")
• 排気する (はいきする, haiki suru) = "to expel exhaust" or "to discharge air"
• ことで (koto de) = Phrase meaning "by doing so", linking cause and effect.
• 更に (さらに, sarani) = "further" or "additionally"
• 推進力 (すいしんりょく, suishinryoku) = "propulsion force" or "thrust"
• を (o/wo) = Direct object particle (the action of gaining propulsion applies to "propulsion force")
• 得る (える, eru) = "to obtain" or "to gain"

Literal translation of second line:

"By compressing the air with ram pressure and cursed energy, and discharging it outside his body, he gains further propulsion."

Third Line:
その速度はマッハ3に達する

その (sono) = "that" (refers to something previously mentioned)
速度 (そくど, sokudo) = "speed"
は (wa) = Topic particle (marks the subject as "that speed")
マッハ3 (まっは3, maha 3) = "Mach 3" (three times the speed of sound)
に (ni) = Particle for "to" or "up to" (marks the result)
達する (たっする, tassuru) = "to reach" or "to attain"
Literal translation of third line:

"That speed reaches Mach 3."

3. Key Details for Interpretation
What is "その速度" (that speed) referring to?
This is critical because the pronoun その (sono, "that") is referring to something previously mentioned.
It logically refers to the speed of the propulsion mechanism described in the second line.
Since the propulsion system involves air being compressed and expelled, it could be interpreted that the speed of the expelled air reaches Mach 3.
However, if it were referring to Naoya's body speed, it would likely be more explicit, with wording like "直哉の速度" (Naoya's speed).
But since it only says "その速度" (that speed), it refers to the speed that was being described earlier — the speed of the process involving the intake, compression, and ejection of air.
Does it imply that the air intake moves at Mach 3?
No, the first line clearly says "音速" (onsoku, speed of sound).
The air intake only happens at the speed of sound, not at Mach 3.
If the speed of air intake were Mach 3, it would have said something like "マッハ3で吸気する" ("takes in air at Mach 3").
Does it say Naoya's speed reaches Mach 3?
It does not explicitly say that Naoya's speed is Mach 3.
If it wanted to clarify that Naoya's body moves at Mach 3, the text would most likely have said:
「直哉の速度はマッハ3に達する」
(Naoya's speed reaches Mach 3.)

Instead, it only says 「その速度はマッハ3に達する」 ("that speed reaches Mach 3"), where "that speed" (その速度) refers to the process described earlier.
Since the only speed explicitly mentioned before this was the speed of the expelled air (compressed using ram pressure and cursed energy), it is most logical to conclude that this speed (the speed of the exhaust) is what reaches Mach 3.

4. Final answer
Does it imply that Naoya himself is moving at Mach 3?

No, it does not explicitly or implicitly state that Naoya himself moves at Mach 3.
If it wanted to refer to Naoya’s movement speed, it would have explicitly said 直哉の速度 (Naoya's speed).
Instead, it refers to "その速度" (that speed), which refers to the previously described speed — the speed of the air being compressed and expelled from Naoya's body.
Does it say the air being taken in is moving at Mach 3?

No, it says the air is taken in at "音速" (speed of sound), which is Mach 1, not Mach 3.
The phrase 「音速で吸気口から取り込んだ空気」 clearly indicates that the intake of air is done at the speed of sound.
What speed reaches Mach 3?

The phrase 「その速度はマッハ3に達する」 refers to the speed of the compressed air being discharged from Naoya's body.
The air intake happens at 音速 (speed of sound), but after compression (via ラム圧 (ram pressure) and 呪力 (cursed energy)), the expelled air reaches Mach 3.


呪霊 直哉の体は音速で吸気口から取り込んだ空気を

"Naoya's body takes in air at the speed of sound from an intake."

ラム圧と呪力で圧縮し体外へ排気することで更に推進力を得る

"By compressing the air with ram pressure and cursed energy, and discharging it outside his body, he gains further propulsion."

その速度はマッハ3に達する

"That speed reaches Mach 3."

Conclusion:
The air intake occurs at the speed of sound (Mach 1).
The compressed, discharged air reaches Mach 3.
The text does not explicitly state that Naoya moves at Mach 3.
The phrase "その速度" refers to the speed of the air being expelled, not Naoya’s movement.]


K done. Enjoy


buhbye.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Arkenis you are cooked

 

[Arkenis]

This would now mean we can't calc Maki's feats of dodging him without going "we'll assume he's this speed". He just certified Maki getting blitzed by an unknown speed that we can't even say is above Mach 2.

 

[LIGHTYW]

Dunno how many would be interested into this but somebody (more like three people apparently) finally did it fr. Full Gojo Booklet translation WITH typesetting.

Also. For those wanting an end to the stupid "who's the #1 in verse" talks: The debate about who's #1 in verse is literally settled in the book. It isn't Sukuna but Gojo.......... (Literally in the same page where Sukuna is in said booklet lmfao)
...which is to be expected since he called Gojo the ceiling of the verse in the fanbook - where Heian Era Sukuna is talked about (Gege: "Heian Era Sukuna Prime vs Rika. Sukuna wins") and even shown, twice. So Gege is just being consistent once again... (Infact we also have one volume 2 extra statement also putting Gojo > Heian Era Sukuna so muh "secondary canon guidebooks" won't work . That volume 2 extra statement encapsulates Sukuna because Heian Era Sukuna is talked about in detail and we even see his form in flashback sorts too, with his tools and stuff)

The "two statements" that basically put Gojo literally above everyone else, including Sukuna, is precisely in the "Gojo Satoru Battle record" page
To give you a short summary from that thread + the imgur blog:
"The Absolute strongest" -> The word Absolute used in Japanese literally means that Gojo absolutely cannot be compared to others because of how superior he literally is compared to others. And the word "overwhelms" funnily enough also carries the same nuance as to being literally far superior to others. This was also verified by solid Japanese dictionaries as well.


Gg ez. Debate over. (though I don't think this can end people doing match-ups lmao)

GG DEBATE OVER GET DEBUNKED

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Personally I've always liked jjk being more grounded in terms of speed (and also imo a bunch of shonen verses are a lot closer to jjk in speed than their supporters would like to admit)

Yeah I lean more towards JJK being in the lower ends of subsonic to mach 1 for most characters and supersonic for higher tiers simply because of how certain things are portrayed in the narrative. Grade 1s like Yuji struggle to deal with stuff like piercing blood which is only stated to exceed sound/travel at around mach 1 based on calcs. People like Kenjaku say that guns are optimal for dealing with sorcerers and Toji considered it useful enough to try and shoot Geto instead of, y'know, just bum rushing him (I guess in Toji's case he's already a bum so it'd just be rushing) if he was more than 3x faster than a handgun. Mr. fastest sorcerer alive (apart from Satoru Gojo) was only said to exceed mach 1 and being able to blitz grade 1s. Etc. etc.

Then there's the fact that speed feats above the mach 3 cap usually either involve Sukuna or Gojo which shouldn't really scale to anyone, have some level of inaccuracy or just don't work with the context of how the verse works (looking at you MHS+ black flash timing), or are just inconsistent or illogical with how the story sets them out. Scaling Gojo or Sukuna well above mach 3 is fine to me because they're the pinnacle of the verse and even at their weakest points in the present day they were still in a class of their own and could've easily killed or blitzed just about everyone if they wanted to. Scaling others to it however is where I think there's issues because their stats didn't suddenly jump several thousand fold just over a month. If people like Yuta or Yuji only barely reached the level of Ryu by the time of Shinjuku, having them suddenly jump from subsonic to something like MHS+ or FTL is just flat out insane, especially considering that kind of implies that either sorcerers just flat out didn't train/didn't do shit to try and improve themselves or for some reason even people like Ino or Kusakabe are for some reason extremely gifted and able to just jump thousands of times their initial speed. There's other issues like potential backscaling via Maki which also leads to issues involving other stated speeds.

I honestly don't really care if the mach 3 cap is removed on the verse. I think that high tiers work for things like supersonic or even hypersonic based on some calcs like the Kenjaku one (though I still prefer supersonic honestly) but speeds like MHS+ or FTL for most of the case is honestly just really stupid in my opinion just based on how things are framed in the story and also the implications for the rest of it if it was like that in Shinjuku.

 

[Arkenis]

GG DEBATE OVER GET DEBUNKED

Posted John Werry already invalid.

 

[PowerToScale]

The mach 3 cap literally requires you to ignore the rest of the story to make it valid

 

[Giannysmag]

The mach 3 cap literally requires you to ignore the rest of the story to make it valid

No it doesn't, it's actually supported quite well by previous statements. Imma copy paste what I said on r/jjkpowerscaling on this

People like to use the mach 3 statement in isolation, which makes it look like the speed is inconsistent and Gege is just pulling numbers out of his ass without realising that it's actually consistent with Naoya's other speeds. Naoya in human form can move at the speed of sound when using his max speed (more specifically it's stated that he has surpassed subsonic speed, but later it's specified that he was moving at the speed of sound), then when he is faster as a cursed womb he reaches supersonic speeds which can be anything above mach 1 but then once he becomes a full vengeful spirit and gaines a body designed to maximize projection sorcery's boost he finally reaches mach 3.
So what we get is this step-ladder, human Naoya (mach 1) -> cursed womb Naoya (>mach 1) -> vengeful spirit Naoya (mach 3).
There's also piercing blood, which while it's never given a specific speed aside from being supersonic it's also generally calced within the mach 1 to 3 range. Uraume who can somewhat keep up with Hakari, called PS fast and only barely managed to block it.
The verse very consistently treats sonic speeds as impressive even for the top tiers. The only ones excempt from this are obviously Gojo and Sukuna, with Sukuna straight up blitzing piercing blood and catching Maki by surprise with his full speed.

You can disagree with the mach 3 cap but acting like it's entirely unsupported by anything else is just wrong

 

[Giannysmag]

GG DEBATE OVER GET DEBUNKED

Gun Vs Light

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Have you guys noticed anytime Projection sorcery is used on anybody for the first time they always say something along the lines of "he's fast but there's something else"

Might write on why projection sorcerers are like that

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Also Mach 3 statement doesn't affect special grade sorcerers and CG ******

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

This would now mean we can't calc Maki's feats of dodging him without going "we'll assume he's this speed". He just certified Maki getting blitzed by an unknown speed that we can't even say is above Mach 2.

Yeah
Meaning other feats might be onboard

 

[PowerToScale]

This would make everyone just "At Least Supersonic+, likely Higher", then we know fast characters have faster feats anyways which Maki would scale to some when fully health and awakened

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I'd agree with this if we didn't have to ignore Naobito's statement as the fastest,

Doesn't affect the speed scaling since no evidence that naoya is even relative to him
His statement is also built on public opinion which means Yuta, adult Geto, Yuki and All sorcerers from CG are off the table

and of course the insane mental gymnastics needed for us to dismiss Piercing Bloood as only exceeding sos and somehow accepting it now is the speed of lightning or higher simply because of other feats. Sukuna reacting to it is pretty hard to reject on its own but when you put it into context it kinda looks like the funniest feat ever.

What's the mental gymnastics there tho?
Piercing blood has no set speed apart from being supersonic
The Databook even clarifies it can be faster depending on the pressure and reinforcement

Although, I can get down with Sukuna and Gojo being FTL if everyone wasn't also watching them fight on camera lmao. Maybe for consistency, I could accept Sukuna's not trying hard after his light speed feat.

All-might and all for one has fought on camera multiple times does that mean they're subsonic?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Kabuto is a prime example of why speed scaling is based on agendas and vibes

Kabuto is listed as Sub-relativistic on this site because he kept up with Tsunade

Guess how fast kabuto electric signals were moving as stated by orochimaru?

https://imgur.com/a/RbMMeJK
Subsonic speeds as stated by orochimaru himself
But nobody would say he's Subsonic and he's even rated as Sub-relativistic (a speed tier thousands of times higher than 360km/hr)

 

[Giannysmag]

Doesn't affect the speed scaling since no evidence that naoya is even relative to him

Kamo knows of Naobito and his reputation as the fastest (has probably met him too given all the clan dudes know eachother), yet calls Naoya's speed unparalleled

+ Naoya's body is built to maximize his speed and the boost from projection sorcery, it'd be weird if he wasn't faster than Naobito

What's the mental gymnastics there tho?
Piercing blood has no set speed apart from being supersonic
The Databook even clarifies it can be faster depending on the pressure and reinforcement

And every time it's been calced it's somewhere between mach 1 and 3

 

[Giannysmag]

Kabuto is a prime example of why speed scaling is based on agendas and vibes

Kabuto is listed as Sub-relativistic on this site because he kept up with Tsunade

Guess how fast kabuto electric signals were moving as stated by orochimaru?


Subsonic speeds as stated by orochimaru himself
But nobody would say he's Subsonic and he's even rated as Sub-relativistic (a speed tier thousands of times higher than 360km/hr)

Thanks for more evidence of sonic speed Naruto

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Kamo knows of Naobito and his reputation as the fastest (has probably met him too given all the clan dudes know eachother), yet calls Naoya's speed unparalleled

+ Naoya's body is built to maximize his speed and the boost from projection sorcery, it'd be weird if he wasn't faster than Naobito

You mean someone who can't react to transonic speeds would know how fast naobito is?

Plus meeting naobito ≠ seeing him fight
Two very different things

Maki who grew up seeing naobito was surprised at Naobito being that fast

Or Ogi naobito own brother not even knowing the difference in strength between them

Not to even talk of kamo who isn't part of the clan
This isn't evidence at all

And every time it's been calced it's somewhere between mach 1 and 3

Has only been calculated twice*

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Thanks for more evidence of sonic speed Naruto

Created an entire archive of Naruto low ends with some guys on Spacebattles

 

[PowerToScale]

Kamo knows of Naobito and his reputation as the fastest (has probably met him too given all the clan dudes know eachother), yet calls Naoya's speed unparalleled

+ Naoya's body is built to maximize his speed and the boost from projection sorcery, it'd be weird if he wasn't faster than Naobito

Not really, as we known the only performance by was when drunk and holding back, only time he did go all out he was weakened with a lost arm. Kamo alos isn't that much of a clan member because of his birth and the stigma around him. Additionally even Zenin clan know Naobito's true capabilities.

And every time it's been calced it's somewhere between mach 1 and 3

Not really a good argument as there are feats perform by others and Naoya better are calced higher than statements.

 

[Giannysmag]

You mean someone who can't react to transonic speeds would know how fast naobito is?

Plus meeting naobito ≠ seeing him fight
Two very different things

Maki who grew up seeing naobito was surprised at Naobito being that fast

Or Ogi naobito own brother not even knowing the difference in strength between them

Not to even talk of kamo who isn't part of the clan
This isn't evidence at all

Fair enough but again Naoya's body is specifically made to maximize his speed

Has only been calculated twice*

Feel free to try and get it beyond mach 3 with calcs

Created an entire archive of Naruto low ends with some guys on Spacebattles

Gimme

 

[PowerToScale]

Fair enough but again Naoya's body is specifically made to maximize his speed

I mean sure, but this means nothing besides he was built to use his technique with his new body. A jumper body can be built for that with more fast twitch muscle fibers but still lose to others with less. Naobito is not only a better user as outlined by his timing and strategy also the sole character to be called the fastest with the technique.

then you add his age, and how long he has had the technique, he'll have a better mastery of it than Naoya would too

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Fair enough but again Naoya's body is specifically made to maximize his speed

Yeah but that doesn't mean he can run faster than Naobito since naobito has better control and talent specifically tuned to optimising his technique and higher output

Feel free to try and get it beyond mach 3 with calcs

Don't really need to
Since it has no stated speed so it's no cap

Gimme

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/deku-runs-a-naruto-gauntlet.1130908/post-97326976
Here's one of the writeups
Would get the full list later

 

[Arkenis]

Piercing blood has no set speed apart from being supersonic
The Databook even clarifies it can be faster depending on the pressure and reinforcement

This right here is the gymnastics. "No set speed" Vaguely above SOS or supersonic is the set speed. The databook clarifies what we already know, PB not condensed to it's maximum can vary, but once it's condensed to it's maximum it exceeds the speed of sound. Gege's pretty clear with what he wants something to be, if he wanted us taking PB as being a lightning speed attack or being hypersonic+++++ he'd have explained it as such.

All-might and all for one has fought on camera multiple times does that mean they're subsonic?

Not at all. The point is to illustrate how faulty the scale becomes when we already don't have much backing up a higher interpretation. MHA has probably 10 or 20 more feats that at face support them above hypersonic. This isn't dodging or blitzing a character and going "lets assume their reaction speed is lower!" to get it above supersonic. Like killing two birds with one stone but one birds already dying, me bringing up the camera thing isn't a big antifeat but it definitely makes higher speed interprets worse.

 

[Keshirou]

The mach 3 cap literally requires you to ignore the rest of the story to make it valid

True. Anyway idk, how subsonic Naoya statement still relevant. Shibuya Yuji able to block, dodge supersonic piercing blood, he NEVER GOT BLITZED by it. Yet after Shibuya he got BLITZED by SUBSONIC Naoya. What reaction do he have then? Superhuman? Or even average human? Story contradicts with even previous statements PLUS feats.
He able to somehow react to a smaller and faster projectile, but in even stronger state not able to react to subsonic Naoya. No logic.

 

[Arkenis]

Shibuya Yuji able to block, dodge supersonic piercing blood, he NEVER GOT BLITZED by it.

Didn't get blitzed okay but not straight up avoiding it isn't any better. And he never dodged it.

 

[Keshirou]

it isn't any better

Still contradiction, between single statement and statement + multiple feats. Not getting blitzed already enough

 

[Arkenis]

Not getting blitzed already enough

How is this not being blitzed?

 

[Giannysmag]

True. Anyway idk, how subsonic Naoya statement still relevant. Shibuya Yuji able to block, dodge supersonic piercing blood, he NEVER GOT BLITZED by it. Yet after Shibuya he got BLITZED by SUBSONIC Naoya. What reaction do he have then? Superhuman? Or even average human? Story contradicts with even previous statements PLUS feats.
He able to somehow react to a smaller and faster projectile, but in even stronger state not able to react to subsonic Naoya. No logic.

Yuji was like 15 meters away from Choso when he was firing PS and even then he only had a 50/50 shot at dodging it and had to time his movements perfectly. Also PS is one projectile that takes time to charge and moves in one straight line, meanwhile Naoya can move whenever he wants and was running litteral circles around them so it's not hard to see why he'd struggle a lot more to keep track of him than PS.

Also can I just say how much I've come to hate the term blitzed. A characters reaction speed and reflexes aren't one standard thing that always stays the same no matter their situation or what they are facing. How quickly they can react to something is effected by a bunch of factors like how far away they are, how good of a view they have of their opponent/ attack, how fast they where expecting them to move (because remember changes in tempo are a thing) and so many others that a "blitzing" feat is usually barely a feat at all. Doesn't help that it is overused as **** throughout this community

 

[Arkenis]

Kabuto is a prime example of why speed scaling is based on agendas and vibes

Kabuto is listed as Sub-relativistic on this site because he kept up with Tsunade

Guess how fast kabuto electric signals were moving as stated by orochimaru?


Subsonic speeds as stated by orochimaru himself
But nobody would say he's Subsonic and he's even rated as Sub-relativistic (a speed tier thousands of times higher than 360km/hr)

Kishimoto getting how fast Kabuto's synapses should be at sub-rel wrong, is pretty small in comparison to the speed scale and is a standard trope that authors aren't trying to get everything accurate. Gege's trying that, just failing at times like Kishimoto did. I do wonder what the supporters have to say about this. And Kabuto's profile is really outdated, I can see them downgrading him since what their scaling Tsunade to is part 2 Kakashi who got stronger. It's noted in Tsunade's page Kabuto was amped by pills, so normally he shouldn't be that high scaling wise.

 

[PowerToScale]

Didn't get blitzed okay but not straight up avoiding it isn't any better. And he never dodged it.

even so, did the math he'd still need to have moved Subsonic+ head drop to supersonic head rotation to dodge.

 

[Gokukid2005]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/deku-runs-a-naruto-gauntlet.1130908/post-97326976
Here's one of the writeups
Would get the full list later

Jeez this stinks

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Kishimoto getting how fast Kabuto's synapses should be at sub-rel wrong, is pretty small in comparison to the speed scale and is a standard trope that authors aren't trying to get everything accurate. Gege's trying that, just failing at times like Kishimoto did. I do wonder what the supporters have to say about this. And Kabuto's profile is really outdated, I can see them downgrading him since what their scaling Tsunade to is part 2 Kakashi who got stronger. It's noted in Tsunade's page Kabuto was amped by pills, so normally he shouldn't be that high scaling wise.

How about the novels saying a supersonic kunia would kill an ordinary ninja and the only reason Gaara survived is because of his sand?
Or Kishimoto saying Part 1 Ninjas are incapable of matching guns?

If authors aren't trying to get everything right wouldn't this affect the Mach 3 statement?

All agendas Tbh

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

How is this not being blitzed?

Since when did blitz mean dodging an attack?
Blitz would mean he couldn't react to it

 

[Arkenis]

How about the novels saying a supersonic kunia would kill an ordinary ninja and the only reason Gaara survived is because of his sand?

An ordinary ninja dying to a kunai is very consistent in the verse, not sure what your point is with this. And most ordinary ninjas aren't in the mhs ranges or even hhs. Gaara's sand is really fast, it's his main way of defense and he doesn't have any good dura or combat speed feats so that makes sense as well. Could you send the context?

Since when did blitz mean dodging an attack?
Blitz would mean he couldn't react to it

He got hit by it. it slashed his entire face.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

This right here is the gymnastics. "No set speed" Vaguely above SOS or supersonic is the set speed. The databook clarifies what we already know, PB not condensed to it's maximum can vary, but once it's condensed to it's maximum it exceeds the speed of sound. Gege's pretty clear with what he wants something to be, if he wanted us taking PB as being a lightning speed attack or being hypersonic+++++ he'd have explained it as such.

I see you straight up don't know what you're talking about

Let me explain it for you

Piercing blood is a technique dependent on another sub technique named convergence

Convergence is compressing blood to its limit and then PB is shot after reinforcing it with cursed energy (something that increases speed)

Now what does the Databook say?

Piercing blood depends on convergence which is inherently a variable technique
Ergo PB is variable as well and all are supersonic

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I see you straight up don't know what you're talking about

Let me explain it for you

Piercing blood is a technique dependent on another sub technique named convergence

Convergence is compressing blood to its limit and then PB is shot after reinforcing it with cursed energy (something that increases speed)

Now what does the Databook say?

Piercing blood depends on convergence which is inherently a variable technique
Ergo PB is variable as well and all are supersonic

This also why Kamo was shocked with choso convergence
According to your logic, his PB would be the same speed since he also does convergence as well

There's no such thing as Max PB, straight up doesn't exist

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

@Arkenis

https://i.gyazo.com/71b8acb8d0cae83bfdd773699ed0b6de.png

Translation;

From the front, supersonic kunai apporaches. It was probably accelerated by Raiton or Fuuton. If he were a normal shinobi, he would be penetrated through the brain before he'd be aware of it and die.

From the Gaara novel, a sniper threw a supersonic kunia at him and would have bypassed his sand speed if he hadn't been to late throwing it