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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Arkenis said:
No he rcted it.
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Nope we see the slash from the front and it covers less than half of his neck
3vonWD4.jpeg
 
Can someone humor me and lay out basically everything that has to do with why JJK is only around Mach 3?
 
Reyne said:
Can someone humor me and lay out basically everything that has to do with why JJK is only around Mach 3?
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Curse Naoya by stacking projection sorcery and using a body specifically designed to maximize his speed is able to achieve Mach 3. This is fast enough to where Maki, who was ready to counter-attack him the moment he got in range was "blitzed". Maki then goes through her hyperbolic timechamber training, is able to see sounds and taste colors and only then is she able to dodge Naoya and land hits on him. It's important to note that it's never implied she grew in stats (some would even argue that she can't, now that she has a completed HR), her perception of the world just changed allowing her to track Naoya's movements and essentially giving her a pseudo-precognition meaning her and by extention the other top tiers are still on the level where they can't physically react to Curseya's mach 3 rush (btw I can give you the scans for all of these statements if you want, I'm just being lazy rn).

Everyone (including myself) has their own opinions and arguements on this that I'm sure you'll see later in the thread but this is the gist of why they get capped at mach 3
 
Giannysmag said:
Curse Naoya by stacking projection sorcery and using a body specifically designed to maximize his speed is able to achieve Mach 3. This is fast enough to where Maki, who was ready to counter-attack him the moment he got in range was "blitzed". Maki then goes through her hyperbolic timechamber training, is able to see sounds and taste colors and only then is she able to dodge Naoya and land hits on him. It's important to note that it's never implied she grew in stats (some would even argue that she can't, now that she has a completed HR), her perception of the world just changed allowing her to track Naoya's movements and essentially giving her a pseudo-precognition meaning her and by extention the other top tiers are still on the level where they can't physically react to Curseya's mach 3 rush (btw I can give you the scans for all of these statements if you want, I'm just being lazy rn).

Everyone (including myself) has their own opinions and arguements on this that I'm sure you'll see later in the thread but this is the gist of why they get capped at mach 3
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And so Sukuna doesn't get to scale above that?
 
The issue is even Sukuna or Gojo. The issue would be that everyone but Sukuna and Gojo would be held back by Mach 3. Generally, the entire verse isn't those two characters so having everything really bent their way just leads to some unsatisfying stats overall for the verse
 
Duedate8898 said:
Generally, the entire verse isn't those two characters so having everything really bent their way just leads to some unsatisfying stats overall for the verse
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Personally I've always liked jjk being more grounded in terms of speed (and also imo a bunch of shonen verses are a lot closer to jjk in speed than their supporters would like to admit)
 
Giannysmag said:
Personally I've always liked jjk being more grounded in terms of speed (and also imo a bunch of shonen verses are a lot closer to jjk in speed than their supporters would like to admit)
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Maybe the new Shonens? Let's not act like the oldies are stuck with majority of the characters getting blitzed by a fleet of jets.
 
Giannysmag said:
Personally I've always liked jjk being more grounded in terms of speed (and also imo a bunch of shonen verses are a lot closer to jjk in speed than their supporters would like to admit)
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I am in a similar boat in that I truthfully don't dislike the Mach 3 cap. My issue is more that just the typical way in which I'm used to us treating issues like speed for verses has not felt true for JJK for a while now.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I am in a similar boat in that I truthfully don't dislike the Mach 3 cap. My issue is more that just the typical way in which I'm used to us treating issues like speed for verses has not felt true for JJK for a while now.
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Fair but for me the solution to that would be to have more scrutiny on other verses speed scaling rather than ignoring a bunch of very blatant statements to hype up JJK more
 
Duedate8898 said:
I am in a similar boat in that I truthfully don't dislike the Mach 3 cap. My issue is more that just the typical way in which I'm used to us treating issues like speed for verses has not felt true for JJK for a while now.
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Still I don't think there's been many verses in recent years where something was so consistent. BC went through a major cap for their earlier arcs where everyone or most are only rel due to big speed statements about LS being the fastest or something. HST have all went through their many caps and uncaps as well.
 
Arkenis said:
Still I don't think there's been many verses in recent years where something was so consistent. BC went through a major cap for their earlier arcs where everyone or most are only rel due to big speed statements about LS being the fastest or something. HST have all went through their many caps and uncaps as well.
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Most of those predate JJK however is what I mean. Like all the speed caps for Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece haven't been relevant for the last five years here at least.

More importantly, these verses have even more factors which would invalidate such perspectives.

Naruto famously has Black Zetsu, a character who would be one of the highest authorities in the verse capping the verse below Lightning speeds, yet that's not where it sits. Bleach is fine. One Piece right now, has Kizaru a character whose entire power is supposed centered around being lightspeed and exist in a verse where all the high tiers have precognition yet he's FTL and so is a lot of other characters.

Black Clover still classifies light magic as the fastest magic yet the verse is still able to hit FTL speeds.

If given the same scrutiny as JJK, especially at these much higher speeds which is supposed to require higher scrutiny, these verses would not at all qualify for FTL much less push into MFTL.

Yet here we are.

A few weeks ago, Horihoshi gave a statement about how All-Might would be Mach 10 or somewhere around that in most, and immediately there were qualifier's given as to why that wouldn't affect the verses speed actually.

JJK is forced to give a lot more prominence to authorial opinion and precedence to statements over feats than a lot of similar verses.
 
Duedate8898 said:
One Piece right now, has Kizaru a character whose entire power is supposed centered around being lightspeed and exist in a verse where all the high tiers have precognition yet he's FTL and so is a lot of other characters.
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I always found it really funny that Kizaru's profile lists this
Is stated to be the fastest admiral
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Under his FTL combat speed. Like yes bro I'm sure this statement isn't accounting for his ability to transform into and move at the speed of light, Kizaru just happens to be the fastest admiral in combat speed completely seperate from his DF power
 
While I agree with the overall sentiment those OP and Naruto examples are far from caps in the same way that the JJK cap is😭
 
Duedate8898 said:
Naruto famously has Black Zetsu, a character who would be one of the highest authorities in the verse capping the verse below Lightning speeds, yet that's not where it sits. Bleach is fine. One Piece right now, has Kizaru a character whose entire power is supposed centered around being lightspeed and exist in a verse where all the high tiers have precognition yet he's FTL and so is a lot of other characters.
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The BZ thing is more contestable and isn't an actual direct statement for the entire verse, it'd be disingenuous to apply it as such. OP def has a problem with that though, and I presume it wasn't just allow and met with push back several times.

Duedate8898 said:
Black Clover still classifies light magic as the fastest magic yet the verse is still able to hit FTL speeds.
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Well yeah the god tiers can be faster?

Duedate8898 said:
If given the same scrutiny as JJK, especially at these much higher speeds which is supposed to require higher scrutiny, these verses would not at all qualify for FTL much less push into MFTL.
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Eh that's debatable. There's far more high speed feats supporting against the low end than what JJK has against Mach 3.

Duedate8898 said:
A few weeks ago, Horihoshi gave a statement about how All-Might would be Mach 10 or somewhere around that in most, and immediately there were qualifier's given as to why that wouldn't affect the verses speed actually.
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Well the main qualifier is that it's travel speed. What would be wrong with that?

Duedate8898 said:
JJK is forced to give a lot more prominence to authorial opinion and precedence to statements over feats than a lot of similar verses.
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It's by nature not force or playing favoritism, or anything else. JJK doesn't have a fraction of what a verse like Naruto has for pushing against it's lower end scale. The BZ lightning statement is almost shot in the dark when we have several statements and feats going against it such as Kakashi cutting lightning, Kakashi dodging lightning, Water Bullet stated to be light speed, Raikage stated to be almost the speed of light, Madara's light fang stated to be light speed, Mifune's light speed slash with biju cloak, Naruto chucking rasenshuriken across Konoha, Toneri cutting the moon in seconds.
 


Dunno how many would be interested into this but somebody (more like three people apparently) finally did it fr. Full Gojo Booklet translation WITH typesetting.

Also. For those wanting an end to the stupid "who's the #1 in verse" talks: The debate about who's #1 in verse is literally settled in the book. It isn't Sukuna but Gojo.......... (Literally in the same page where Sukuna is in said booklet lmfao)
...which is to be expected since he called Gojo the ceiling of the verse in the fanbook - where Heian Era Sukuna is talked about (Gege: "Heian Era Sukuna Prime vs Rika. Sukuna wins") and even shown, twice. So Gege is just being consistent once again... (Infact we also have one volume 2 extra statement also putting Gojo > Heian Era Sukuna so muh "secondary canon guidebooks" won't work 🥱. That volume 2 extra statement encapsulates Sukuna because Heian Era Sukuna is talked about in detail and we even see his form in flashback sorts too, with his tools and stuff)

The "two statements" that basically put Gojo literally above everyone else, including Sukuna, is precisely in the "Gojo Satoru Battle record" page
To give you a short summary from that thread + the imgur blog:
"The Absolute strongest" -> The word Absolute used in Japanese literally means that Gojo absolutely cannot be compared to others because of how superior he literally is compared to others. And the word "overwhelms" funnily enough also carries the same nuance as to being literally far superior to others. This was also verified by solid Japanese dictionaries as well.


Gg ez. Debate over. (though I don't think this can end people doing match-ups lmao)
 
Arkenis said:
The BZ thing is more contestable and isn't an actual direct statement for the entire verse, it'd be disingenuous to apply it as such. OP def has a problem with that though, and I presume it wasn't just allow and met with push back several times.
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Mach 3 isn't a direct statement for most of the verse either though. Not to mention, Maki and Noritoshi as reliable sources for the verse's speed is even more dubious than characters in the likes of BC or One Piece or Naruto (as they're still relatively unlearned sorcerer's who have a much more limited perspective on the world than the other verses) yet they're treated like their words are king (Maki is treated as an authority in so many places she shouldn't be in the verse, especially with her lack of CE but here we are).
Arkenis said:
Well yeah the god tiers can be faster?
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This is what I'm talking about. If Light magic is the fastest magic, and light magic has an entire spell which is about moving at the speed of it, then logically no one should be able to outspeed it, only match it at best.

Arkenis said:
Well the main qualifier is that it's travel speed. What would be wrong with that?
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Travel speed as an idea is far more tied to Vs Debaters than it is to any other space. Most people don't separate speed the way we do on the site.
Arkenis said:
It's by nature not force or playing favoritism, or anything else. JJK doesn't have a fraction of what a verse like Naruto has for pushing against it's lower end scale. The BZ lightning statement is almost shot in the dark when we have several statements and feats going against it such as Kakashi cutting lightning, Kakashi dodging lightning, Water Bullet stated to be light speed, Raikage stated to be almost the speed of light, Madara's light fang stated to be light speed, Mifune's light speed slash with biju cloak, Naruto chucking rasenshuriken across Konoha, Toneri cutting the moon in seconds.
Click to expand...
I disagree that JJk doesn't have solid support pushing up against the mach 3 statement.

We have multiple feats which show characters dodging, catching or deflecting, Supersonic projectiles up close and personal (Yuji, Kenjaku, Sukuna, Maki). We also have a few cases of characters just outright avoiding gunfire after its occured (Geto, Kenjaku, Megumi). Sukuna literally moves so fast piercing blood looks frozen perspectivewise. However, we consistently lowball or outright discount those feats. Then we have characters covering vast distances in small windows of time (Sukuna mostly, Gojo kinda but he has teleport so its dubious). We have just everything surrounding Kashimo and Hakari (where Hakari literally exhales electricity as its destroying his brain not even to mention his earlier dodge of the attack when it attempted to target his brain, which Gege literally got a consultant from Dr Stone to help make sure he was accurate in how he was breaking it down) or Kashimo attacking with beams of light which Sukuna is able to counter with an attack of his own after the attack has been made. Not to mention Gojo being able to time blackflashes easily.

Mach 3 is only one statement next to all of that, yet it is given far more importance than any of it.
 
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