Scout (Team Fortress 2) vs The Player (Combat Warrios)

[09Kayson09]

Rules:

1 - Scout Robot War/Australium Chase key will be used

2 - Scout will be equipped with Scattergun, Bonk! Atomic Punch and Prinny Machete

3 - The Player will be equipped with Bo Staff, Crowbar and Bat

4 - Both 9-A

5 - Speed Equalized

6 - Battle took place in 2Fort

Scout:

The Player:

 

[Arkansalter2]

Oh boy. Alrighty.
Now.. theres a couple of things that John Combat can do to just close the distance really easily. Such as doing this or THIS with his jump attack which can deal extreme damage. And once he gets close, it's pretty much GGs as he'll easily beat the brakes off of Scout with his Bat.

 

[koopa3144]

So Scout scales to Soldier (who he can one-shot) no-selling 0.0864596454 tons of TNT vs John Combat who downscales from 0.02278 Tons of TNT so I'm pretty sure Scout should only need one good hit to take out John Combat.

 

[Shmooply]

Are we all just conveniently forgetting nothing's stopping Scout from shooting him.

 

[Arkansalter2]

John Combat can also one shot another player who picked up a crate mythical with a singular unarmed skill who makes said player about 3x tankier.

Are we all just conveniently forgetting nothing's stopping Scout from shooting him.

Player has dealt with gunfire before. He could really just move out of harms way with one of his various skills or by superjumping and crashing down with jump attack.

 

[Shmooply]

John Combat can also one shot another player who picked up a crate mythical with a singular unarmed skill who makes said player about 3x tankier.

The "oneshot" requires him to charge up that technique by dealing damage with his fists and to get up close to Scout.

superjumping and crashing down with jump attack.

Scout wouldn't just allow himself to get hit by anything and he can easily make distance before John "how did that parry not connect what" Combat can crash down on him. If this is just him performing the regular super jump instead of whatever crazy move he pulled off with that sword was, there's a chance he'll damage and stun himself to give Scout an easy victory.

The scattergun would also push John Combat off due to it having some knockback to it, there's that to consider.

 

[koopa3144]

John Combat can also one shot another player who picked up a crate mythical with a singular unarmed skill who makes said player about 3x tankier.

Even with a 3x amp, it still puts them a bit bellow the Panzer Pants Explosion at 0.06834 tons so Scout should still one-shot.

 

[Arkansalter2]

The "oneshot" requires him to charge up that technique by dealing damage with his fists

Thats... game mechanics.

there's a chance he'll damage and stun himself to give Scout an easy victory

Well he can superjump like this and just crash down with his Jump Attack skill.

 

[AThe1412]

John Combat can also one shot another player who picked up a crate mythical with a singular unarmed skill who makes said player about 3x tankier.

Do Mythicals actually do that? I keep seeing you mention it but haven't seen anything that says they do.

The "oneshot" requires him to charge up that technique by dealing damage with his fists and to get up close to Scout.

Damage requirements for Skills are considered game mechanics. They're practically impossible to quantify anyway.

Scout wouldn't just allow himself to get hit by anything and he can easily make distance before John "how did that parry not connect what" Combat can crash down on him. If this is just him performing the regular super jump instead of whatever crazy move he pulled off with that sword was, there's a chance he'll damage and stun himself to give Scout an easy victory.

Fall damage is also a game mechanic because duh.

Even with a 3x amp, it still puts them a bit bellow the Panzer Pants Explosion at 0.06834 tons so Scout should still one-shot.

This I agree with. Scout definitely has the skills to land shots on equally agile opponents too so Player is kind of screwed if they're only restricted to melee.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I keep seeing you mention it but haven't seen anything that says they do.

Keyword crate mythicals. Mythical weapons that come from airdrops make the player around 3x tankier as shown when the player can get hit by an RPG and survive whilst having around a third of their HP left. This was shown here when the opposing player got one shotted by skull crusher when he had a crate mythical. He decently upscales from their thermobaric missile value.

if they're only restricted to melee.

Give player a tommy gun and he'll be good.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thats... game mechanics.

And... where is the proof for this? You can't just say "It's game mechanics" and NOT have it be used with no requirements outside of gameplay.

Well he can superjump like this and just crash down with his Jump Attack skill.

Seeing the AP difference at play here, Scout can straight up tank that and land his shot.

 

[Arkansalter2]

And... where is the proof for this? You can't just say "It's game mechanics" and NOT have it be used with no requirements outside of gameplay.

Skills: Special attacks which are significantly more powerful than normal ones but they require the Player to deal certain amounts of damage to use them (Though this is likely the result of Game Mechanics. All Skills also have cooldowns which usually last for several seconds depending on which one is used).

Seeing the AP difference at play here, Scout can straight up tank that and land his shot.

Skills can one shot other players. Scout would take quite a massive hit.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Skills: Special attacks which are significantly more powerful than normal ones but they require the Player to deal certain amounts of damage to use them (Though this is likely the result of Game Mechanics. All Skills also have cooldowns which usually last for several seconds depending on which one is used).

So you've used Game Mechanics improperly. You gonna make the CRT to remove that one, or should I?

Skills can one shot other players. Scout would take quite a massive hit.

He'd take an average hit, he's like 2 one-shots above his value

 

[Arkansalter2]

So you've used Game Mechanics improperly. You gonna make the CRT to remove that one, or should I?

Damage requirements for skills are literally game mechanics + it would just be impossible to quantify and would just make stuff harder. Cooldowns aren't game mechanics however one can cancel skills to just jump attack repeatedly to just keep flying.

So you've used Game Mechanics improperly. You gonna make the CRT to remove that one, or should I?

He'd take an average hit, he's like 2 one-shots above his value

John Combat is a few one shots above his original value with skils due to his Skull Crusher skill insta-killing airdrop mythical players (which make said player about 3x tankier) as seen here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Damage requirements for skills are literally game mechanics + it would just be impossible to quantify and would just make stuff harder. Cooldowns aren't game mechanics however one can cancel skills to just jump attack repeatedly to just keep flying.

In order to call something "Game Mechanics", you need proof that such a limiter isn't present when not in the context of gameplay. You don't have that proof or I'm certain you wouldn't be dancing around the problem in the first place.

John Combat is a few one shots above his original value with skils due to his Skull Crusher skill insta-killing airdrop mythical players (which make said player about 3x tankier) as seen here.

So again, an average hit for Scout.

And one he can avoid by aiming and firing his scattergun.

 

[Arkansalter2]

In order to call something "Game Mechanics", you need proof that such a limiter isn't present when not in the context of gameplay

Why would a damage requirement for a skill be even an argument here? It's on the profile???

So again, an average hit for Scout.

And one he can avoid by aiming and firing his scattergun.

Player closes the distance, Scout gets his arms ripped off, then gibbed, then what?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why would a damage requirement for a skill be even an argument here? It's on thescattering.

You want it removed? I for one can, very easily, gather the mod support to pass a CRT in 24 hours. Those are your choices: cough up the proof, or watch it get removed.

Player closes the distance, Scout gets his arms ripped off, then gibbed, then what?

Yeah the Player gets a new asshole where his chest or head once was trying to close the distance. Unless we want to start arguing Player can dodge supersonic shots at point blank.

 

[Arkansalter2]

You want it removed? I for one can, very easily, gaTHEr my SuSSy TeAM to pass a CRT in 24 hours. Those are your choices: cough up the proof, or watch it get removed.

Hold your cope. Don't even try to use "Oh I CaN GeT a MoD tEaM tO rEmOvE a SiMplE arGumEnt!11!1" as an argument. Even another guy said it below.

Damage requirements for Skills are considered game mechanics. They're practically impossible to quantify anyway.

Lets hold our cope and move on from this argument.

Yeah the Player gets a new asshole where his chest or head once was trying to close the distance. Unless we want to start arguing Player can dodge supersonic shots at point blank.

So either one of two things would happen if player gets close.
1. Player just disarms with his higher LS and rips Scout's arms off and just beats the brakes out of Scout
2. Scout just shoots and GGs.

From what I've seen, the scattergun isn't really effective at range so what is Scout gonna do when player just wants to do this with his Bo Staff?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hold your cope. Don't even try to use "Oh I CaN GeT a MoD tEaM tO rEmOvE a SiMplE arGumEnt!11!1" as an argument. Even another guy said it below.

Lets hold our cope and move on from this argument.

So you have no proof, give me a bit.

So either one of two things would happen if player gets close.
1. Player just disarms with his higher LS and rips Scout's arms off and just beats the brakes out of Scout
2. Scout just shoots and GGs.

From what I've seen, the scattergun isn't really effective at range so what is Scout gonna do when player just wants to do this with his Bo Staff?

The shot blows through the staff and hits Player. Like, Scout doesn't have to be in smelling distance to use it effectively.

 

[Arkansalter2]

So you have no proof, give me a bit.

Bro is HARD coping for a verse he doesn't even support.
Stop acting like you know more than the people who actually support the verse.

The shot blows through the staff and hits Player.

Player has Immo 2. He really wouldn't give a flying damn. He is pretty much a "light work no reaction" to all forms of pain dealt on to him. Proof? Literally just play the f****** game.

 

[Shmooply]

"Game mechanics" this, "cope" that, can you explain why Scout doesn't oneshot already.

 

[AthelChan]

Not a good look for Arkan

 

[AthelChan]

a Roblox supporter myself, the MU is not looking good for the player im ngl

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bro is HARD coping for a verse he doesn't even support.
Stop acting like you know more than the people who actually support the verse.

Combat Warriors: Unsubstantiated Gameplay Mechanics claim

Skills: Special attacks which are significantly more powerful than normal ones but they require the Player to deal certain amounts of damage to use them (Though this is likely the result of Game Mechanics. So, to put it lightly since I DID have to look into matters since there was little help...

vsbattles.com

Clearly if you're so correct the mods will side with your arguments, eh?

Player has Immo 2. He really wouldn't give a flying damn. He is pretty much a "light work no reaction" to all forms of pain dealt on to him. Proof? Literally just play the f****** game.

Doesn't really help if he's getting his chest blown out or his head taken clean off.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Clearly if you're so correct the mods will side with your arguments, eh?

Anyways wondering why OP limited the amount of utility considering that John Combat has to get close in order to do something substancial.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

yeah, scout really just needs to keep his distance in this scenario.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Massive yikes on the players side (That one shot value is not pretty)

Anyway the player does have type 2 immo and minor regen so I don't think scout can just one shot unless he straight up goes for the head (idk if jc can survive decapitation )

JC also has a really massive LS advantage (class 5 vs class 50) so they could outright just restrain the scout in close range or start breaking limbs that along with the fact that experienced JCs can fight entire servers of other JCs suggests the player should also have a sizable skill advantage. Scout also doesn't resist electricity manipulation looking at his profile so hitting the player with a close range move puts him in some serious trouble

Overall I think JC has a shot even with the massive AP difference

 

[Arkansalter2]

Why give Scout a gun but not JC?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Massive yikes on the players side (That one shot value is not pretty)

Anyway the player does have type 2 immo and minor regen so I don't think scout can just one shot unless he straight up goes for the head (idk if jc can survive decapitation )

JC also has a really massive LS advantage (class 5 vs class 50) so they could outright just restrain the scout in close range or start breaking limbs that along with the fact that experienced JCs can fight entire servers of other JCs suggests the player should also have a sizable skill advantage. Scout also doesn't resist electricity manipulation looking at his profile so hitting the player with a close range move puts him in some serious trouble

Overall I think JC has a shot even with the massive AP difference

I love how your arguments rely on the guy famous for being a dodgey glass cannon getting hit at melee. And MvM is very much so a thing so the skill difference isn't even that big at best. Not to mention Scout can just... shoot him six times. With ease.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I love how your arguments rely on the guy famous for being a dodgey glass cannon getting hit at melee.

If scout doesn't have any feats that suggest he can dodge people as skilled as JC this becomes a non factor

And MvM is very much so a thing so the skill difference isn't even that big at best.

Pardon me for being stupid but what does mvm mean here?

Not to mention Scout can just... shoot him six times. With ease.

If he does this at close range he gets hit by electricity

 

[DaReaperMan]

If scout doesn't have any feats that suggest he can dodge people as skilled as JC this becomes a non factor

this screams that you A: think CW can actually get within melee range of Scout, and B: Think that he can deflect Supersonic spreadshot that blitzes him.

Pardon me for being stupid but what does mvm mean here?

Mann Vs Machine. Armies of robots with hitscan bullets, arrows, and turrets.

If he does this at close range he gets hit by electricity

Like, Scout doesn't have to be in smelling distance to use it effectively.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

this screams that you A: think CW can actually get within melee range of Scout,

He can with gap closers and acrobatics

and B: Think that he can deflect Supersonic spreadshot that blitzes him.

He doesn't need to nessesarly he just needs to reach close range since electricity basically screws scout over

Also his profile lists him being able to react to supersonic attacks at a distance so if we're assuming scout is at a distance he's definitely dodging and might even parry some of them

Mann Vs Machine. Armies of robots with hitscan bullets, arrows, and turrets.

Now I'm actually interested in tf2 XD

Anyway even then while the skill diff isn't that big this still doesn't change the fact that he can just use acrobatics to dodge stuff at a distance while putting scout in a bad spot the moment he simply reaches close range and gets hit

Like, Scout doesn't have to be in smelling distance to use it effectively

Scout just has to be in melee range

If their using acrobatics to just jump around him at closer ranges then they would break line of sight since scout can't track them (unless scout can fight characters with the players level of acrobatics in which case JC is prob cooked)

 

[DaReaperMan]

snip

Scout can literally double jump and is very used to fighting people almost as agile as he is. And no, he doesn't have to be in melee, he can be out of melee and deal with it. And this REQUIRES player to make the most optimal calls and not just get shafted by Scout refusing to play the game he's playing by using his shotgun to pepper him until he stops moving. He's only got Low-mid regen, removing his head works and Scout doesn't have problems with killing people

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Scout can literally double jump and is very used to fighting people almost as agile as he is.

The player can perform slides while timing their jumps perfectly to perform stomps, can do mid air flips, and jump fairly high into the air while controlling their own momentum

I don't think double jumping alone is enough to cover all of that

And no, he doesn't have to be in melee, he can be out of melee and deal with it.

I don't think you understood me there I was saying that for the electricity to work the player just has to get scout to melee/extended melee range (by closing distance) not that scout would willingly start with melee

And this REQUIRES player to make the most optimal calls

Pretty sure SBA assumes with player inserts that they are as skilled as possible in game

and not just get shafted by Scout refusing to play the game he's playing by using his shotgun to pepper him until he stops moving.

Distance my friend...your having scout at a distance so his attacks would be significantly easier to dodge since they would be traveling more distance

Even with the attack speed difference from his weapons the player can react to similar speeds with some distance. Since Scott is at a distance here they could just dodge the bullets with acrobatics and/or wait for him to run out of bullets which forces him to either switch weapons or reload, giving the player a window of opportunity to use acrobatics to just make it there.

He's only got Low-mid regen, removing his head works

That's why I said the regen was minor and decapacitation was still an option

and Scout doesn't have problems with killing people

Neither does the player

 

[DaReaperMan]

The player can perform slides while timing their jumps perfectly to perform stomps, can do mid air flips, and jump fairly high into the air while controlling their own momentum

Glitching out the game isn't an argument. And Mid-Air flips? Scout does like 5 lol and there ain't a mann among them who can keep up with a rocket jumping soldier... or Saxton Hale.

don't think you understood me there I was saying that for the electricity to work the player just has to get scout to melee/extended melee range (by closing distance) not that scout would willingly start with melee

Fair

Pretty sure SBA assumes with player inserts that they are as skilled as possible in game

And the most skilled CW players are glitching out the game 24/7, very few, if ANY actually are being extremely skilled straight up. In fact most of their "skill" is AoEing people out. Also, Scout has Subsonic+ reactions, and speed is equal, so Scout dodging everything thrown at him cause he sees it in slow motion isn't out of the picture.

Distance my friend...your having scout at a distance so his attacks would be significantly easier to dodge since they would be traveling more distance

And now there's one through his spine, and another through his hands, and oh wait he's already been peppered beyond his regen's capabilities

Even with the attack speed difference from his weapons the player can react to similar speeds with some distance. Since Scott is at a distance here they could just dodge the bullets with acrobatics and/or wait for him to run out of bullets which forces him to either switch weapons or reload, giving the player a window of opportunity to use acrobatics to just make it there.

Scout loads his weapons very fast lmfao, and like I said, CW WITHOUT GLITCHES doesn't have the best mobility compared to TF2

 

[AThe1412]

Just gonna tag in to say that super-jumping (the kind shown in the video above me) is pretty much an intended tech in CW.



The devs fully acknowledge it and not only chooses to keep it in the game but they also gave players an actual manual high jump ability in case they can't perform the mechanical version.

 

[Arkansalter2]

I have no clue why they gave scout a gun but not JC. JC should have his Spas or a gun to even things out.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I mean, it looks like Scout's got an advantage here.

 

[TheGatememer]

Normally, I'd just say Scout blitzes and one-shots CW with his massive AP and Attack Speed advantage and its gg. But, there are some points of contention, so, uh:

Oh boy. Alrighty.
Now.. theres a couple of things that John Combat can do to just close the distance really easily. Such as doing this or THIS with his jump attack which can deal extreme damage.

Neat. Here's, Demoknight, who Scout fights on the daily:

Bit of an extreme example, but really, this movement is worse than rocket jumping, and sticky jumping, given that it's noticeably slower, and CW visibly freezes while doing the so called "flying", making him an easy target.

Also, this assumes Scout will just stand still which... he won't. That goes against his entire play style.

And once he gets close, it's pretty much GGs as he'll easily beat the brakes off of Scout with his Bat.

Not with that AP gap.

John Combat can also one shot another player who picked up a crate mythical with a singular unarmed skill who makes said player about 3x tankier.

Still less than Scout's AP value, which he no-sells. His guns can one-shot other mercenaries who scale to the same value of durability.

Player closes the distance, Scout gets his arms ripped off, then gibbed, then what?

That's assuming A: Scout stays still the whole time (literally goes against his whole play style), and B: the player can move 3 feet before instantly getting shot.
(Unrelated, but Scout will also be upgraded to minimum Class 100, maximum Class M later on)

From what I've seen, the scattergun isn't really effective at range so what is Scout gonna do when player just wants to do this with his Bo Staff?

Shoot him. He doesn't have to have every pellet connect for it to be deadly with again, his gargantuan AP advantage.

Player has Immo 2. He really wouldn't give a flying damn. He is pretty much a "light work no reaction" to all forms of pain dealt on to him. Proof? Literally just play the f****** game.

Then his death will be painless.

Anyway the player does have type 2 immo and minor regen so I don't think scout can just one shot unless he straight up goes for the head (idk if jc can survive decapitation )

Then Scout shoots him twice. Scout shoots, and reloads really fast in this key. Like, can shoot in 0.25s intervals, and reload a clip in 0.42s fast.

JC also has a really massive LS advantage (class 5 vs class 50) so they could outright just restrain the scout in close range or start breaking limbs

That assumes he gets anywhere near Scout, before getting shot.

that along with the fact that experienced JCs can fight entire servers of other JCs suggests the player should also have a sizable skill advantage.

Scout, along with 5 others, kill hordes of robots on the daily, all of whom are individually stronger than each of them, and carry weapons that can one-shot them.

Scout also doesn't resist electricity manipulation looking at his profile so hitting the player with a close range move puts him in some serious trouble

Even if it comes down to melee (it won't), that electricity barely seems harmful to the player, much less the Scout, who MASSIVELY outscales the player in durability. (Like, no-sells a value over 3x CW's durability)

Overall I think JC has a shot even with the massive AP difference

The only way he wins is if Scout misses like 20 times in a row while he's approaching him, stays still the entire time, and CW decides to lead with ripping Scout's limbs off.

I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point clear. Scout wins this with neg difficulty. If it's not a stomp (it probably is), voting him.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

yeah, scout really just needs to keep his distance in this scenario.

Normally, I'd just say Scout blitzes and one-shots CW with his massive AP and Attack Speed advantage and its gg. But, there are some points of contention, so, uh:


Neat. Here's, Demoknight, who Scout fights on the daily:

Bit of an extreme example, but really, this movement is worse than rocket jumping, and sticky jumping, given that it's noticeably slower, and CW visibly freezes while doing the so called "flying", making him an easy target.

i think we are also forgetting the fact that scout has duble jump and it looks way more practical for a fight than Jonh combat jump

(btw i think demoknight is pretty much going subsonic speeds there lol)

The only way he wins is if Scout misses like 20 times in a row while he's approaching him, stays still the entire time, and CW decides to lead with ripping Scout's limbs off.

Average game i do when i pick scout:

JC also has a really massive LS advantage (class 5 vs class 50) so they could outright just restrain the scout in close range or start breaking limbs

can he even do that with that ap difference? it's like 3,79 times on scout part