Strongest LGBTQ+ character of each category

[Ebihara]

Ok, bad example, my bad
Still, there are plenty of examples in fiction of robots having genders that I'm sure should count for this list if they are explicitly outside the gender binary

I totally agree, there are alot of robots that decide to identify as male or female or whatever binary exists in that verse. Or a robot is created to look/act/be perceived as male or female.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I literally addressed this? The way Chara is “both genders” by just being whatever Player wants it to be, thus not simultaneously both genders and not in the way of identifying being two genders, but just being up to Player who they are.

The only way for this to be correct is that the game offers to you a way to choose Chara's gender which would cause them to get a specific pronoun instead of "them".

However, it's not the case here, so...

 

[Ebihara]

I can see both sides of this but I am leaning towards to agreeing with @TheOrangeGuy09

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I mean, yeah, Chara is a metaphor and it can be interpreted as the player's feeling of curiosity over the game. But like they're also a canon character in the game, who had a family, a life and has a distinct personality we can gleam from their interactions. They even talk to the Player themself so it's not like they're supposed to be 1-to-1 with the Player.

What we do know is that, the character Chara was supposedly closest to in the entire Underground, Asriel, exclusively refers to them with they/them pronouns.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, yeah, Chara is a metaphor and it can be interpreted as the player's feeling of curiosity over the game. But like they're also a canon character in the game, who had a family, a life and has a distinct personality we can gleam from their interactions. They even talk to the Player themself so it's like they're 1-to-1 with the Player either.

What we do know is that, the character Chara was supposedly closest to in the entire Underground, Asriel, exclusively refers to them with they/them pronouns.

You know that I've somehow completely skipped this in my head?

That's a good point ngl.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Assuming many WoD characters can be in complete Asexual?

the Weaver and Wyrm have an Asexual relationship at the end, more of Romantic/just sentimental.

They're both High 1-A+ btw

 

[sukuna171]

Saint-14 for third position in gay

 

[Nonynho]

And I bump

Bump

Oh, just noticed he is on top 2

Stephen/SMT franchise smacks marvel, afaik

 

[Jinx666]

Maestro (Doctor Who)

‘Maestro’ is a God from Doctor Who (2024), played by Jinkx Monsoon, who first appeared in ‘The Devil's Chord’ and acts as a member of the ‘Pantheon of Discord’. They are the child of the Toymaker, as well as the living embodiment of ‘Music’. Tier: At least High 1-C Name: Maestro Origin: Doctor...

vsbattles.fandom.com

They're pretty much an abstract entity God with no actual gender by technicality, but the character is literally played by Jinkx Monsoon, and directly says they go by They/Them so

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The only way for this to be correct is that the game offers to you a way to choose Chara's gender which would cause them to get a specific pronoun instead of "them".

I already said that "they" can be used if gender is irrelevant or unknown for whatever reason, and you yourself conceded that Chara is meant to be a representation of Player which is what I used in my proof, so nah, don't create false dilemmas here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I already said that "they" can be used if gender is irrelevant or

Like Wikipedia said!

Damm you're repeating yourself once again. Either bring new points or accept this.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Like Wikipedia said

It’s funny how you cropped out “for whatever reason”.

Damm you're repeating yourself once again. Either bring new points or accept this.

False dilemma + non-sequitir.

 

[Apotheosis69]

I feel like Weaver and Wyrm should both be in 1 spot. That way, more characters can be in. Cus they are completely equal. And make sure to add the "+" too

 

[Laxxius]

Guys does Homura Akemi count for lesbian?

 

[StrymULTRA]

It’s funny how you cropped out “for whatever reason”.

Just like you kinda pretend that Asriel never refered to Chara as he or she even prior to the game's events. Funny how little details get overlooked eh?

(Also looking back it wasn't intentional, I am on phone and sometimes it doesn't quote the full message, this is why I am better on PC shrug)

False dilemma + non-sequitir.

Just naming fallacies is neither a refute nor does make you look smarter, js.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Just like you kinda pretend that Asriel never refered to Chara as he or she even prior to the game's events. Funny how little details get overlooked eh?

This means Asriel does not deem it is necessary for Frisk to know Chara’s sex.

Just naming fallacies is neither a refute nor does make you look smarter, js.

Saying this does not mean you did not commit fallacies btw, the points still stand.

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

Oh, just noticed he is on top 2

Stephen/SMT franchise smacks marvel, afaik

Bump

 

[IDK3465]

If we ever include an agender/genderless category, I’ll nominate Testament for it.

 

[O0DSF0o]

If we ever include an agender/genderless category, I’ll nominate Testament for it.

**** it, sure there

 

[StrymULTRA]

This means Asriel does not deem it is necessary for Frisk to know Chara’s sex.

Congrats, Orange. You managed to truly piss me off with this one.

Now tell me WHY in this godsend **** would Asriel hide this from Frisk. There's no reason on why a person would hide another's gender during a conversation (especially if it's their best friend who's even deceased, so privacy stuff isn't a reason as there's just nothing to hide here), especially given who Frisk is.

This is extremely forcing, dishonest and even concerning that you even thought of this as a genuine refute.

As for the second thing, just naming fallacies for someone who didn't dedicate time to memorize all of them as if it's the table of elements isn't really working, it's just odd.

 

[Ebihara]

I don't mean to be rude, but can yall take this to pms or wall. It is on topic kinda... but its starting to be unproductive and kinda a bummer for a lack of better word. Don't want this escalating to somthing rvrt worthy. I respect you both and don't say this out of spite.

 

[O0DSF0o]

I'll just say that Chara will count as Non-Binary for this list. Asriel not including Chara's gender because he's bored, whilst funny as shit, doesn't make any sense.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So contradictory to the OP’s own words that it has to be a blatant confirmation, not speculation/theory/headcanon/etc.

But, whatever I guess, I have seen far worse when it comes to this, so this is just a regular Tuesday.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't mean to be rude, but can yall take this to pms or wall. It is on topic kinda... but its starting to be unproductive and kinda a bummer for a lack of better word. Don't want this escalating to somthing rvrt worthy. I respect you both and don't say this out of spite.

I couldn't tell this sooner as I had to get home.

I just wanted to add that I definitely do not plan to make this some kind of warfield, and wanted to make a last message saying that this is @O0DSF0o's thread, so they can do whatever they want here ultimately, but looks like you've ninja'd me about this.

I do want to recall that Toby Fox is someone that is really attentive to pronouns, as if he notices that he accidentally misgendered some characters, he always corrects it (like IIRC Napstablook was reffered sometimes as "he" but was all corrected to "they" in later patches), so saying that Asriel just decided to specifically hide Chara's gender for whatever reason is just weird if you know this.

I'll just say that Chara will count as Non-Binary for this list. Asriel not including Chara's gender because he's bored, whilst funny as shit, doesn't make any sense.

I'd put Frisk in the same spot as Chara, btw. They have no real differences as they're both empowered from the Player, and they're not that different hax-wise anyways.

 

[Nonynho]

I've been bumping this for a while:
Stephen should be above Gwenpool in the Aromantic list due to SMT as a verse being qualitatively superior to Marvel (or at least to Gwenpool), and Stephen being the craziest biggest baddest human of the verse (Despite possibly his profile being a tiny bit outdated. Will work on it this week tho si it's not mattering)

 

[O0DSF0o]

I've been bumping this for a while:
Stephen should be above Gwenpool in the Aromantic list due to SMT as a verse being qualitatively superior to Marvel (or at least to Gwenpool), and Stephen being the craziest biggest baddest human of the verse (Despite possibly his profile being a tiny bit outdated. Will work on it this week tho si it's not mattering)

sure

 

[Apotheosis69]

I feel like Weaver and Wyrm should both be in 1 spot. That way, more characters can be in. Cus they are completely equal. And make sure to add the "+" too

@O0DSF0o This please

 

[Livinmeme]

Counterpoint,
1. If I renember correctly, the underground knows jack about Human biology so it makes sense that they would use they for an androgynous kid
2. Asriel is a kid

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Don't see how the first point is relevant? UT Monsters clearly have a concept of gender.
For the second point, Toriel also does so, who's ya know, their mom.

 

[Livinmeme]

I...what? I said that they don't know human biology well, not that they know gender at all (this is basic ***** SCI-FI stuff, btw)

 

[StrymULTRA]

I...what? I said that they don't know human biology well, not that they know gender at all (this is basic ***** SCI-FI stuff, btw)

Knowing biology ≠ knowing gender. Besides Chara could always have asked to refer to themselves as they, yk.

Also idk why so many people are against non binary people in Undertale it's not like it ruins y'all lifes smh.

Only in VBW you see people going against well established shit in the fandom. This is the same site that refused to give to Spamton and Jevil 4th Wall Awareness for years lmao.

Edit: I'd also add that using biology against gender is weird even in Undertale, as Napstablook, Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew are all ghosts using inanimate objects as bodies, yet they use "they", "he" and "she" respectively despite the fact that sex cannot be applied to them.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also I'd like to propose Undyne as a placeholder for 3rd place in Lesbian until a better pick comes up.

She dates Alphys multiple times and was even about to kiss her at the end of the Pacifist.

 

[Nonynho]

Let me spark a nicer debate, screw this one:

If you date a creature that is not human/the same species as you, are you pansexual or it depends on the gender of said creature that attacts you?

 

[Lukewoesal007]

For the Aromantic top 1 I'd nominate my man Stephen from the SMT franchise

I feel there are better characters to represent Megami Tensei than someone who, from my understanding, is more so implicitly aro/ace due to his enlightenment/transcendence over humanity than the multiple overtly bisexual and gay characters from other games, mainly Tatsuya Suou, Jun Kurosu, Kotone Shiomi, Ryoji, and Elizabeth. I'm not sure if all of these characters have profiles, but they should be added, regardless.

 

[Robot972]

If you date a creature that is not human/the same species as you, are you pansexual or it depends on the gender of said creature that attacts you?

I suppose pansexual would probably get blanketed over that as well as the "anything's good" term, unless a new blanket term popped up to cover gender and species

 

[Nonynho]

I feel there are better characters to represent Megami Tensei than someone who, from my understanding, is more so implicitly aro/ace due to his enlightenment/transcendence over humanity than the multiple overtly bisexual and gay characters from other games, mainly Tatsuya Suou, Jun Kurosu, Kotone Shiomi, Ryoji, and Elizabeth. I'm not sure if all of these characters have profiles, but they should be added, regardless.

It is kinda implied Tatsuya has a relationship with best girl Lisa Silverman (or could have); Jun's implied to be gay and liking Tatsuya (which I don't judge); Kotone Shiomi is from the first game where you have implied romance with a bunch of major male arcana representative/party member on the visual-novel-like-development, so she's definitely not aro/ace; Ryoji literally responds to some of the flirts he receive in school; Elizabeth, if I'm not mistaken, is literally a higher existence than a human being, which don't count to our list

And see, Stephen may have tapped into the powers that created the multiverse and etc but he's still human, he still has interest in keeping the messiahs fine, he literally made what he's most famous about (the Devil Translator and Summoner to be used in the COMP) after making contact with the Great Will and differently from higher entities, he worries, even if just a little, about the fate of the universe, assisting iirc every Messiah in a way and even testing them out to see if he should worry more (can you picture YHVH doing that? At max Lucifer against poor Demi-Fiend, but any other?). So I can't think that he's not interested in romance/sex just because of tapping into Great Will's presence and powers, it is, as I see it, just a trait of his own.

 

[Nonynho]

Also, if you're only worried about putting Megaten characters in the list, just put them out in the categories and gg

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

I've been summoned to talk about Touhou. Here's what I think;

1. Before passing into fantasy and resurrecting as the hermit Toyosatomimi no Miko, she was previously known as Prince Shōtoku in the Outside World. Miko in particular has also been, in a strictly historical context, referred to with he/him pronouns. Needless to say, Miko is now referrred to with she/her pronouns. It's also worth mentioning that ZUN has a long-known habit of portraying important historical figures and/or the legends behind them as female, whereas before they were stated to be male.

2. There's also that one time Reimu flirted with Meria in Story of Eastern Wonderland.

 

[Zabazab]

Let me spark a nicer debate, screw this one:

If you date a creature that is not human/the same species as you, are you pansexual or it depends on the gender of said creature that attacts you?

Mostly inapplicable to real-life queerness given only humans are sapient irl. Depending on how human-like it is, it'd just be either a case of "What gender is it?".

But again there could be fictional species that have like 8000 genders and all that... if it feels gay it's gay. I think.

 

[O0DSF0o]

I've been summoned to talk about Touhou. Here's what I think;

1. Before passing into fantasy and resurrecting as the hermit Toyosatomimi no Miko, she was previously known as Prince Shōtoku in the Outside World. Miko in particular has also been, in a strictly historical context, referred to with "he" pronouns. Needless to say, Miko is now referrred to with she/her pronouns. It's also worth mentioning that ZUN has a long-known habit of portraying important historical figures and/or the legends behind them as female, whereas before they were stated to be male.

2. There's also that one time Reimu flirted with Meria in Story of Eastern Wonderland.

Sure, how many universes is she?

2. There's also that one time Reimu flirted with Meria in Story of Eastern Wonderland.

THE LESBIAN SCAN!!!
Jokes aside, tbh Touhou dialogue reads like hieroglyphs to me so it's kind of hard for me to tell if this is fully serious. And if it is, what would it make her? Since I have NO clue if Reimu likes men or anything