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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

Campo1uc said:
Let's repeat this again so there is no "duplicity" in the discussion

Marugori hits with a force of 100 tons (OPM)

The dog hits Garou (and leaves afterimages) at 250 kilometers per hour (OPM)

Garou hits Platinum at subsonic speed (OPM)

Luffy gets knocked down, is surprised and does not reach 200 kilometers per hour (One Piece)

Kim Dusik pulls 100 tons (GOH)

Raiden does not reach Mach 2 as stated (Metal Gear)

Goku ran 1 million kilometers in 28 hours (Mach 30) (Dragon Ball)

Sasuke could not run 10 meters in 10 seconds before the Portal closed (Naruto)

Josuke can hit at 300 kilometers per hour (JoJo)

Dante got shot in the forehead (part 3) (devil may cry)

Adam Smasher couldn't catch up to the car (Cyberpunk)

Kendy's lightning is stated to be slower than actual lightning, but Zaraki doesn't react to it (Bleach novel)

Additional: Hisagi can't catch up to a helicopter (Novel)

Kengan (Stated that bullet speed can't be achieved)

Star Wars (Jedi kill Mandalorians with guns)

Not to mention Marvel and DC, where a separate thread could be created

Many popular universes have statements or feats that contradict many consistent feats from the source material. Regardless of why the author stated Mach 10 specifically, it contradicts the prequel feats, Nagant bullets, Deku, and many other points. An exception that should be ignored.

(Actually, these low-quality "Mach 10s" aren't that bad compared to Mach 3 from Jujutsu Kaisen or 100 Tons of Punches from Makugori from One-Punch Man.)
1584kpapdsI.jpg
Click to expand...
You're misunderstanding long distance travel feats with burst speed feats, and combat and reactions feats for some of these tbh, the All Might one isn't really that inconsistent all things considered, any feats with Fa Jin are burst feats in the way you're speaking about it for travel, the vigilates Mach 26 feat is only 1.6s away from Mach 10 we just used 1s for our assumed timeframe. The statement itself isn't bad at all and it provides us with the consistent long distance travel speed for AM.


Peeps just gotta stop doom posting, everything is fine. We can move on from Mach 10 running💀😭
 
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Dalesean027 said:
Вы неправильно понимаете подвиги путешествий на большие расстояния с подвигами взрывной скорости, а также подвиги боя и реакции для некоторых из них, если честно, Всемогущий на самом деле не так уж и непоследователен, учитывая все обстоятельства, любые подвиги с Фа Цзинь являются взрывными подвигами в том смысле, в котором вы говорите об этом для путешествий, подвиг вигилатов Маха 26 всего в 1,6 с отстает от Маха 10, мы просто использовали 1 с для нашего предполагаемого временного интервала. Само утверждение совсем неплохое, и оно дает нам постоянную скорость путешествия на большие расстояния для AM.


Пипсы просто должны прекратить постить дум, все в порядке. Мы можем двигаться дальше от 10 Махов💀😭
Click to expand...

Dalesean027 said:
You're misunderstanding long distance travel feats with burst speed feats, and combat and reactions feats for some of these tbh, the All Might one isn't really that inconsistent all things considered, any feats with Fa Jin are burst feats in the way you're speaking about it for travel, the vigilates Mach 26 feat is only 1.6s away from Mach 10 we just used 1s for our assumed timeframe. The statement itself isn't bad at all and it provides us with the consistent long distance travel speed for AM.


Peeps just gotta stop doom posting, everything is fine. We can move on from Mach 10 running💀😭
Click to expand...
Are you deliberately ignoring all the examples given? In any case, the exploits don't end only with Fan Jin. This statement contradicts any feat of the Almighty from the prequel, contradicts Deku's feat with a bullet, even if we take the standard speed of a sniper shot rather than the one shown inside, and contradicts the last film in which Deku overcomes meters in a bubble in which bullets freeze.. The energy reserve is a bad argument on your part, Midoriya needed the accumulation to be 100% false. The Almighty reaches 100% without using a combination of quirks. Mach 10 is a glaring exception that should be ignored, and as far as I understand, it will be eliminated.
 
Campo1uc said:
the exploits don't end only with Fan Jin
Click to expand...
Campo1uc said:
contradicts Deku's feat with a bullet, even if we take the standard speed of a sniper shot rather than the one shown inside, and contradicts the last film in which Deku overcomes meters in a bubble in which bullets freeze
Click to expand...
I hate to break it to you but Fa Jin is objectively for building energy to use in burst, there is no argument otherwise there its literally how it works so I'm not sure why you're even saying anything about it being an argument when its kinda objectively the case for it.

Fa Jin does not scale to Deku's long distance travel speed its not something that last long enough to give deku MHS+ ~ Sub-Rel travel speed at all. Its good for getting burst of speed and power and has been used to get a headstart when he's about to travel but its literally not sustainable enough to be rated as his standard travel ratings.

It seems more to me you think I'm saying that the quirks itself isn't that fast and if so that's a misunderstanding by your own fault as I never implied as much.
Campo1uc said:
The Almighty reaches 100% without using a combination of ququirks.
Click to expand...
This doesn't even correlate to anything you said..🤷‍♂️
 
Hey guys, real quick:

Does anyone have any scan of statements that prove TUM’s and/or the light novels are canon? (Might need it to showcase some feats/statements from them.) 🙏🏾
 
Dalesean027 said:
Не хочу вас расстраивать, но Фа Цзинь объективно предназначен для накопления энергии, которую можно использовать в рывках, в остальном это просто принцип работы, так что я не понимаю, почему вы вообще говорите, что это аргумент, когда объективно это так.

Fa Jin не масштабируется до скорости перемещения Деку на большие расстояния, это не то, что длится достаточно долго, чтобы дать Деку MHS+ ~ Sub-Rel скорость перемещения вообще. Это хорошо для получения всплеска скорости и мощности и использовалось для получения форы, когда он собирается путешествовать, но это буквально недостаточно устойчиво, чтобы быть оцененным как его стандартные рейтинги путешествий.

Мне кажется, вы думаете, я говорю, что сама по себе причуда не такая уж быстрая, и если так, то это недопонимание по вашей собственной вине, поскольку я никогда не подразумевал этого.

Это даже не соотносится ни с чем из того, что вы сказали.🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Do you still not understand what this is about? The accumulation of energy is necessary so that the Midoria reaches a false 100% at the moment of the shot. What Midoriya does with a combination of abilities that allow him to achieve 100% of the Almighty's speed, the Almighty himself does without accumulating quirks and whips, only with his movement speed, which contradicts the claim of mach 10, since Midoriya's false 100% outruns bullets at a great distance.
 
Campo1uc said:
Let's repeat this again so there is no "duplicity" in the discussion

Marugori hits with a force of 100 tons (OPM)

The dog hits Garou (and leaves afterimages) at 250 kilometers per hour (OPM)

Garou hits Platinum at subsonic speed (OPM)

Luffy gets knocked down, is surprised and does not reach 200 kilometers per hour (One Piece)

Kim Dusik pulls 100 tons (GOH)

Raiden does not reach Mach 2 as stated (Metal Gear)

Goku ran 1 million kilometers in 28 hours (Mach 30) (Dragon Ball)

Sasuke could not run 10 meters in 10 seconds before the Portal closed (Naruto)

Josuke can hit at 300 kilometers per hour (JoJo)

Dante got shot in the forehead (part 3) (devil may cry)

Adam Smasher couldn't catch up to the car (Cyberpunk)

Kendy's lightning is stated to be slower than actual lightning, but Zaraki doesn't react to it (Bleach novel)

Additional: Hisagi can't catch up to a helicopter (Novel)

Kengan (Stated that bullet speed can't be achieved)

Star Wars (Jedi kill Mandalorians with guns)

Not to mention Marvel and DC, where a separate thread could be created

Many popular universes have statements or feats that contradict many consistent feats from the source material. Regardless of why the author stated Mach 10 specifically, it contradicts the prequel feats, Nagant bullets, Deku, and many other points. An exception that should be ignored.

(Actually, these low-quality "Mach 10s" aren't that bad compared to Mach 3 from Jujutsu Kaisen or 100 Tons of Punches from Makugori from One-Punch Man.)
1584kpapdsI.jpg
Click to expand...
Man, he was saving this shit since Christmas, lmao.

Anyways, for real though... let me drop my two cents again... After giving it some fair bit of thought... it's not a matter of using calcs to confirm or deny Horikoshi's statement... It's a matter of the statement fighting against canon itself.

You expect me to believe that a character who can outpaces a bullet that crosses 200km basically instantaneously can only move at Mach 10? ****, forget power-scaling, forget statements... someone explain to me in bold letters how the man who wrote such a bullshit showcase of speed into his OWN story, somehow thinks Mach 10 is... look, aight bro, let's bury this. **** it.

Someone explain this shit.



So, right here, Deku is moving in a space where time is slowed down by a villain's Quirk. Of course, that's not enough to completely negate Deku's speed. He's just... that fast, right? But... It's not like they showed how fast... right? RIGHT?

Hahaha... well, irony is a *****.



So, the villain's Quirk can slow down time to the point that even bullets basically move at near standstill... so, nearly a thousand times slower, being conservative and safe just to entertain the level of bullshit that this Mach 10 discourse generate.

Gentlemen, I want you to do some logic here. No, not any calculations, just basic common sense...

So, compared to the distance the bullet travels under time dilation, Deku covers thousands of times more distance than what the bullet could naturally achieve under the influence of the guy's Quirk...

And if Deku is covering thousands of times more distance than what the speed of the bullet (which looks to be around an inch per second) could achieve in the same amount of time as Deku moved...

2+2=?

Like, we're not even trying to calculate it, because the villain even says directly to Deku, "how are you moving so fast?!" because he's still traveling quickly even when time is slowed down thousands of times over. The movie is saying that Deku moves THAT much faster than the bullet. The guy is comparing how objects, including bullets, are at a standstill when affected by his Quirk, while Deku isn't.

Again, two plus two equals what? Rub them brain cells together and tell me how fast that is compared to Mach 10.

...No? Okay, well, let me rub my own then. We'll retract that promise of no calcs and do a quick calc, just to connect the dots in case none of y'all couldn't.

So—

All Might's supposed top speed, which is relative to Deku, as stated by the guidebook, is 3430 m/s.

Speed of the bullet that's traveling at like an inch per second in the clip: 400 m/s (at least)

Deku crosses at least a dozen or so meters every second and is moving fast enough to blitz the villain. 10 m/s seems like a good estimate. 10 m/s means he crosses 400 inches every second... 400 times the 1 inch per second moving bullet btw.

So... nearly 460 times the speed of sound, versus... Mach 10.

lol. LMAO EVEN

So, as per basic logic and mathematics, Deku, if he was moving at only 10 inches per second (10 times the speed of the bullet under time dilation) would mean that he's moving at a little under a foot per second. 0.8 ft/s, to be precise.

You explain the logistics of a guy getting blitzed by someone moving at literally under a ******* foot per second. I mean, that's only so much quicker than what a snail could travel at. Could a snail speed blitz a human? Would any of you be taken by surprise by someone who can't even run faster than 1 mile an hour?

Explain that... by all means, explain.

EDIT: Some might say that movie feats are exaggerated... but how much exaggerated could they be under Horikoshi's supervision, who the Vigilantes author specifically went out of his way to say is very picky regarding character capabilities and limits. I also seriously think Horikoshi would rather not overlook his own character narratively traveling that fast unless it was agreed upon.

The movies are still 100% canonical anyway. So, regardless, I call into question this "exaggeration," which is far too vague to begin with. Would it be any more exaggerated if Deku was, indeed, traveling at 10 inches per second... or are we just biased depending on how fast it portrays him?
 
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1000TonsofFun said:
I thought that it meant adult Bakugo was as strong physically as Mirio. Both would be massive buffs to either character though.
Click to expand...
I guess we’ll have to see the original Japanese to know, but I personally interpreted it as a statement of overall fighting ability or attack potency since the statement was made in the context of the hero rankings, where all of your skills holistically would matter more than just your physical strength.

Plus Bakugo mostly fights with his explosions, so it’d be weird to comment on his physical strength.

(Totally not just LeGOATllion bias talking frfr)
 
1. This shouldn't be an argument here, we all separate travel speed and combat speed. And we also take feats before author statements generally.

2. Author also have to keep travel speed down even if you are aware of speed metrics. For example Goku taking a long ass time to reach Vegeta and Nappa on the Nimubs when he ran continental distances in a few seconds as a teenager. If your characters can zip across the world instantly, it's hard to build stakes.

Also the biggest difference between JJK's Mach 3 and this Mach 10 is that JJK's Mach 3 was a well researched plot point. Gege wanted it to be exactly that and even studied the effects of it on the surrounding area. Where as this seems more like Hori just answering with a number than comes to his mind.

3. This is running speed, all might just launches himself with jumps and Deku flies everywhere so this isn't very applicable anyway.
 
Damage3245 said:
In this case Goku crossing "continental distances" in a few seconds would be the outlier here.
Click to expand...
Not really. Because he does this multiple times. He even swam across a ocean and even Krillen in his first appearance pre training was running across massive landscapes.

Not to mention Tao Pai Pai who is much much weaker that Saiyan Saga Goku can throw pillars fast enough to cross country wide distances in minutes and then jump up to those pillars.
 
57Dev said:
Not really. Because he does this multiple times. He even swam across a ocean and even Krillen in his first appearance pre training was running across massive landscapes.

Not to mention Tao Pai Pai who is much much weaker that Saiyan Saga Goku can throw pillars fast enough to cross country wide distances in minutes and then jump up to those pillars.
Click to expand...
Crossing massive distances isn't a problem, it's the "in a few seconds" part that stands out.
 
Damage3245 said:
Crossing massive distances isn't a problem, it's the "in a few seconds" part that stands out.
Click to expand...
All of these feats take place in a small timeframe. Not to mention in OG dragon ball where characters are exponentially weaker. Also this isn't really the only time.

Cell saga was a clusterf***. For example Krillen flies to take the remote from Bulma When Tien goes to stop cell, arrives during Vegeta vs Cell. The same Krillen when way weaker was zipping around Namek like nothing.

Toriyama wasn't really good at keeping track of things.
 
57Dev said:
All of these feats take place in a small timeframe. Not to mention in OG dragon ball where characters are exponentially weaker. Also this isn't really the only time.

Cell saga was a clusterf***. For example Krillen flies to take the remote from Bulma When Tien goes to stop cell, arrives during Vegeta vs Cell. The same Krillen when way weaker was zipping around Namek like nothing.

Toriyama wasn't really good at keeping track of things.
Click to expand...
Actually Krillin is famously quite slow in the Namek Arc. He's the main reason why I was able to get my flight speed revisions passed.

Take a look at the Frieza Saga section: https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-dragon-ball-flight-speed-dragon-ball-dbz-dbs-manga.135188/
 
Damage3245 said:
Actually Krillin is famously quite slow in the Namek Arc. He's the main reason why I was able to get my flight speed revisions passed.

Take a look at the Frieza Saga section: https://vsbattles.com/threads/revising-dragon-ball-flight-speed-dragon-ball-dbz-dbs-manga.135188/
Click to expand...
Huh really.

That means Krillin who is at this point thousands of time more powerful takes hours to journey less distance than Tao Pai Pai can go, murder and be back in just 15 min. Which makes no sense because, I will let Vegeta Explain this -
500
 
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Vigilantes Ep5. After 2 back to back action episodes, this was half romance and half action while introducing a new character, who you will know exactly who it is with a single word at the end.

Also loved the Gran Torino theme in the episode. Maybe we will hear Just another hero one more time in a series.
 
57Dev said:
Huh really.

That means Krillin who is at this point thousands of time more powerful takes hours to journey less distance than Tao Pai Pai can go, murder and be back in just 15 min. Which makes no sense because, I will let Vegeta Explain this -
Click to expand...
Well, nobody ever accused Dragon Ball of making perfect sense.
 
vsbattles.com

Creation VS Creation

- Both at their High 7-C key Speed is equalized Ladybug key is being used (not guardian) 20m from each other. SBA Ladybug151.025 Kilotons Momo Yaoyorozu (Creati) 575.26 Kilotons of TNT (AP), 10.08 Kilotons of TNT (Durability)
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Ngl I'm surprised y'all have even been bothering arguing about this, especially if you've been power scaling for awhile. Author statements are cool and all but most people usually just ignore them and use straight feats or scaling. I've noticed people only really consider author or guidebook statements if it falls in line with calculations or scaling already shown. Most authors don't really do calculations like you do, they usually just go with what they think looks cool. Like yeah they made the series and have an idea on things, obviously, but if you asked them how to calculate the AP of a particular move they'd have no idea what the hell you're talking about
 
Unless you're the dude that wrote that instant death novel. I swear he wrote that book just so he could say he has a broken character to use in vs. battles
 
vsbattles.com

Tsukishima vs Deku (0-0-0)

I hope this isn't a bad idea Lost Agent Arc Shūkurō Tsukishima vs Final War Arc Izuku Midoriya Speed equalized Deku starts with 100% Tsukishima is in his human body Fight takes place in Karakura Town Rest is SBA Tsukishima: Deku: @CastoriceTheFifth Incon:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
So I was rewatching Shiggy vs Mahito and something clicked with me. The theoretical version of Shiggy that would exist after this fight with Mahito would be borderline impossible for Deku to beat despite losing a decent chunk of his Quirks because of the way his body adapts as explained by the episode itself. After experiencing Idle Transfiguration and Mahito's Cursed Energy its highly likely that Deku's transfer punches wouldn't even work on him anymore since Shiggy will have gotten a head start on adapting to soul attacks like he was doing in canon, not to mention whatever adaptations he would have gained from having his limbs destroyed by Mahito and his Black Flashes that were ragdolling him.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
So I was rewatching Shiggy vs Mahito and something clicked with me. The theoretical version of Shiggy that would exist after this fight with Mahito would be borderline impossible for Deku to beat despite losing a decent chunk of his Quirks because of the way his body adapts as explained by the episode itself. After experiencing Idle Transfiguration and Mahito's Cursed Energy its highly likely that Deku's transfer punches wouldn't even work on him anymore since Shiggy will have gotten a head start on adapting to soul attacks like he was doing in canon, not to mention whatever adaptations he would have gained from having his limbs destroyed by Mahito and his Black Flashes that were ragdolling him.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t Deku supposedly capable of destroying Shigaraki in a single attack though? He just chose not to because he wanted to save Shigaraki.
 
1000TonsofFun said:
Wasn’t Deku supposedly capable of destroying Shigaraki in a single attack though? He just chose not to because he wanted to save Shigaraki.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he was, but only with all his shit stacked together. But this theoretical Shiggy would be even stronger after experiencing a fight like the one that happened in the animation since once Mahito transformed he was blowing Shiggy's body apart or crippling him repeatedly so his body would need to start adapting to that kind of damage again. Considering he started adapting to much lesser damage I'm sure he'll be way stronger now, probably to the point that Deku can't simply one-shot kill him as easily.
 
I wish somone asked him about a hypothetical shigaraki with OFA and New Order
 
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