Son Goku (SDBH) vs Sonic the Hedgehog [0-0-0]

[Apotheosis69]

FUN & GAMES

RULES​

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Yes this is in Fun & Games, and not Versus Threads.

• As such, Both Attack Potency, Speed, Striking Strength and Durability are Equalized at Complex Multiverse level (6-D) and Immeasurable, respectfully.
• Both Goku and Sonic are completely in Character (basically starting out as a Sparring Match), but more than willing to win.
  • Wincon is death. No BFR or Knocking out.
• Battle takes place ANYWHERE on either one's Cosmologies, and can ofc Travel there.
• Both Goku and Sonic start at Base.
  • Goku is on Ultra God Mission key, and has Access to the Universe Tree/along with Tokitoki.
  • Sonic can go up to Starfall Super Sonic (Base), and has maximum 999 Rings. And there are Rings Everywhere in the cosmologies/Battle field.
• ALL of Sonic's Conceptual Manipulation and Nonduality (Type 2) are completely Restricted.
• Goku's Dimensional Domain and Statistics/Stamina Manipulation & Restoration are Restricted. His Durability Negation through bypassing defensive skills is Restricted.
• Both have All (Optional) Equipment, and Goku can Only summon Tokitoki.

MUSIC​

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I LIVE FOR THE FIGHT, MY SPIRIT IGNITES!​

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Time Patrol Savior (Son Goku)

Hero Across Time and Space (Sonic)

Inconclusive

While this is Fun & Games, I still would heavily prefer that this should be taken with some seriousness on who can win.
Yes there is a LOT of info about each characters Powers and Hax. So due to it being overwhelming, please TAKE YOUR TIME ascerning the wincons of each individual. And most of all, Think before you act and send a message.

I'll post this in MY Profile Page once Grace has ended, along with all future Fun & Games Versus Matches​

 

[Shar122]

I honestly think is a stomp, CC goku's passive Aura has 3 passive inducing History and info type 2 EE (Universe tree, Time Power, Power of destruction, 7 layers on top of that) + Matter Destruction + Deconstruction + Fate erasure + Space-time erasure + Causality erasure.
It's range varies from Galactic (via Universe tree) to Complex multiversal (Time power & Power of destruction range, if we use your equalized tier), It's Aura consists of Passive AP crush, on top of that, it can also passively nullify/seal away his opponent abilities, powers, etc..
He also has
- Passive Stat amplification that constantly increase his stats, energy, potency in abilities, resistances, strength etc. .. Which means his 7 layers of Time power isn't limited to such notion, which layers will passively and constantly increase more than 7 layers throughout the fight.

As an energy-based power, the potency of Time Power's haxes will increase based on the potency of the users energy, as Time Power is a Universal Energy Systems, its power and abilities' potency increases parallel with its energy increases, thus increasing its abilities and resistance's layers

Enhanced Statistics Amplification (Passive; In this form, Goku passively and constantly absorbs energy from the Universe Tree to replenish his energy and amplify his power, passively increasing his statistics and abilities' potency throughout the fight as a result, which allows him to repeatedly breakthrough Fu: Youth's resistances as Fu also constantly absorbed the power from the same Tree to boost the potency of his power & abilities)

Tho Judging from Sonic profile, he indeed has History and Info EE resistance.. But his layers is just 2..i don't think he would be Able survive such insane potency of abilities.

Text Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, Nonexistent Erasure (Enhanced Nature Type 1, All Aspects [Other: History, Space-Time, Narrative & Text]), Law Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2), Mind Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1 [6-D], 2 Layers; Super Forms can withstand attacks from the likes of Solaris. Repeatedly, Solaris is inferred to want the destruction of all reality; that being Mephiles' craving for destruction, his desire to erase all of history, and Solaris' goal to swallow all timelines and destroy the very meaning of time itself. This level of destruction would extend to the Arabian Nights, White Space and its history, Cyber Space, and Maginaryworld)

Also judging By Sonic's profile (again), he doesn't seem to have Regeneration on a high Godly level, but even Then Goku have High Godly Regen negation.. Which is.. A stomp.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Goku starts at base, however his first move [considering universe tree and toki toki are allowed] wild probably be using UT and fusing with toki toki on the get go, so uhh..sonic needs to deal with baseku as quickly as possible if he doesn't want to be hit by gazillion passives.

 

[Shar122]

Goku starts at base, however his first move [considering universe tree and toki toki are allowed] wild probably be using UT and fusing with toki toki on the get go, so uhh..sonic needs to deal with baseku as quickly as possible if he doesn't want to be hit by gazillion passives.

Uuhh since the universe tree is present.. That passive erasure inducement will erase Sonic before he transforms into his most powerful form. Unless the OP specified he needs to summon the Universe tree first.

 

[Robo432343]

even if you allow sonics concept manip goatku still stomps

 

[Shar122]

Also he isn't just summoning a regular Toki Toki, he can summon Awakened true form Toki Toki, which also has 7 layers of Time power as well... And CC goku can also fuse with him .. Which is overkill imo..

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

So far I'm more for CC Goku's victory but if good counter arguments appear I could potentially switch my vote.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Since both start in base and goku would immediately go ssb alongside UT, wouldn't he blitz sonic?
And goku can also summon Agios...which has Keysword, so another power null option and Agios is more than likely to use her EE

 

[Shar122]

Since both start in base and goku would immediately go ssb alongside UT, wouldn't he blitz sonic?
And goku can also summon Agios...which has Keysword, so another power null option and Agios is more than likely to use her EE

And CC goku himself has access to the dormant Keysword, which has 3 layers of passive power null ig.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Then what are sonic's wincons?

 

[Apotheosis69]

Would you guys be alright if all Layers for both their Hax are equalized?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Would you guys be alright if all Layers for both their Hax are equalized?

As long as Sonic can get into Super Sonic, he negs Xeno Goku's entire kit hax-wise. If he can't, Goatku prolly doess some passive stuff and wins.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I take it back, Basenic has the levels of abstraction conceptual hax bullshit resistance. He negs all of Goku's passive erasure shit. But he isn't resisting some of his other shlock. Super Form does neg everything else tho.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Unless im mistaken conceptual manipulation isn't allowed at all in this match up due to fairness.

ALL of Sonic's Conceptual Manipulation and Nonduality (Type 2) are completely Restricted.
Both have All (Optional) Equipment, and Goku can Summon Agios, Dragons and ofc Tokitoki.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Unless im mistaken conceptual manipulation isn't allowed at all in this match up due to fairness.

I'm referring to Sonic's resistances. Does no concept stuff mean even Sonic's resistances are removed? If so, yeah, no shit he's going to lose if you remove all the stuff that lets him stomp Goku

 

[Apotheosis69]

Sonic's Resistances to Conceptual Manipulation ARENT resisted. Just him USING Conceptual Manipulation is restricted.

To which I was kinda sceptical on doing, in case this messes up his chance of winning.

But Restricting his Nonduality Type 2 is absolutely required for this matchup to even be possible…

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sonic's Resistances to Conceptual Manipulation ARENT resisted. Just him USING Conceptual Manipulation is restricted.

To which I was kinda sceptical on doing, in case this messes up his chance of winning.

You think Sonic using his conceptual slop would mess up his own odds of winning? Or did you mean Goatku's?

 

[Apotheosis69]

Messing up Goku's odds of winning

Cus there has been VS Matchups of Dragon Ball Heroes characters fighting Rimuru Tempest (…. Before the Low 1-C removal nerf). But since he had both Abstract Existence of Concept 1 and had Concept Manipulation Type 1 itself. It was a complete stomp.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Messing up Goku's odds of winning

Cus there has been VS Matchups of Dragon Ball Heroes characters fighting Rimuru Tempest (…. Before the Low 1-C removal nerf). But since he had both Abstract Existence of Concept 1 and had Concept Manipulation Type 1 itself. It was a complete stomp.

Gotcha. It should be fine, yeah. Once he goes Super, he's immune to all Goku's hax slop. And it becomes a hand-to-hand battle. Granted he has other stuff he can use like hax of his own (Cyber Corruption namely since in Starfall Super form, that stuff is passive).

 

[ShakeResounding]

I still can't believe Goku said "This fight is making me feel Dragon Ball Super!" by the climax of the battle, I started clapping and weeping

 

[Apotheosis69]

Gotcha. It should be fine, yeah. Once he goes Super, he's immune to all Goku's hax slop. And it becomes a hand-to-hand battle. Granted he has other stuff he can use like hax of his own (Cyber Corruption namely since in Starfall Super form, that stuff is passive).

@Robo432343 @Shar122

Do you both agree?

Everyone's lets not forget, that this starts out as like a Sparring Match.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

@Robo432343 @Shar122

Do you both agree?

Everyone's lets not forget, that this starts out as like a Sparring Match.

Why would he neg all of goku's haxes again? And how would he fight when he is constantly damaged passively and can't really escape due to goku's passive aura?

 

[Shar122]

Gotcha. It should be fine, yeah. Once he goes Super, he's immune to all Goku's hax slop. And it becomes a hand-to-hand battle. Granted he has other stuff he can use like hax of his own (Cyber Corruption namely since in Starfall Super form, that stuff is passive).

How will be immune?? What stops goku from Passively crush him to oblivion? What's stopping him from increasing more hax layers throughout the fight? He can also summon Demigra, who has Corruption (All Types), Mind Hax, Morality Hax and Madness Hax.

Messing up Goku's odds of winning

Cus there has been VS Matchups of Dragon Ball Heroes characters fighting Rimuru Tempest (…. Before the Low 1-C removal nerf). But since he had both Abstract Existence of Concept 1 and had Concept Manipulation Type 1 itself. It was a complete stomp.

Those who just has Ae 1 concept stuff did survived against him, but those who only has concept hax without Ae 1 still got negged by Goku.

 

[LaserPrecision]

How will be immune?? What stops goku from Passively crush him to oblivion? What's stopping him from increasing more hax layers throughout the fight? He can also summon Demigra, who has Corruption (All Types), Mind Hax, Morality Hax and Madness Hax.

Goku wouldn't have the ability to affect Super Sonic (with his hax) due to being fueled with Chaos Energy. He would need the ability to interact with Chaos Energy to affect Super Sonic with anything. And Super Sonic's energy is accepted as like 6 levels into abstraction. Layers are irrelevant since levels of abstraction > layers.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Guessing Unrestricting Sonic's Concept Manip wouldn't make it any more fair huh?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Guessing Unrestricting Sonic's Concept Manip wouldn't make it any more fair huh?

If you did, Sonic could basically just erase Goku from existence with any attack he threw if he wanted to. Or prolly like, thought based erasure shit (But that's less in-character for him)

 

[Apotheosis69]

In that being the case, I'll keep ya'll discussing on who is more haxed (more specifically Layered) and hopefully come to an agreement.

Any lead to a Complete stomp will be either Restricted or Equalized.

 

[LaserPrecision]

In that being the case, I'll keep ya'll discussing on who is more haxed (more specifically Layered) and hopefully come to an agreement.

Any lead to a Complete stomp will be either Restricted or Equalized.

Sonic doesn't have a lot of layers, so Goku's got that (For now. Planning a massive revision for layered stuff in Sonic). But that doesn't really matter due to the nature of Chaos Energy being too abstract for Goku's hax to affect Super Sonic. On top of that, anything involving Chaos Energy should affect Goku since he's never shown to be resistant to anything that abstract in nature. But if you were to like, restrict Chaos Energy or smth, then yeah. Goatku's got it, lol.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Sonic doesn't have a lot of layers, so Goku's got that (For now. Planning a massive revision for layered stuff in Sonic). But that doesn't really matter due to the nature of Chaos Energy being too abstract for Goku's hax to affect Super Sonic. On top of that, anything involving Chaos Energy should affect Goku since he's never shown to be resistant to anything that abstract in nature. But if you were to like, restrict Chaos Energy or smth, then yeah. Goatku's got it, lol.

If you can, can you put the Layers into the P&A tab of the characters themselves, once any CRT and revisions are accepted?

I always hate that any Layers explanation is in a different blog/page, it becomes confusing.

I honestly think is a stomp, CC goku's passive Aura has 3 passive inducing History and info type 2 EE (Universe tree, Time Power, Power of destruction, 7 layers on top of that) + Matter Destruction + Deconstruction + Fate erasure + Space-time erasure + Causality erasure.
It's range varies from Galactic (via Universe tree) to Complex multiversal (Time power & Power of destruction range, if we use your equalized tier), It's Aura consists of Passive AP crush, on top of that, it can also passively nullify/seal away his opponent abilities, powers, etc..
He also has
- Passive Stat amplification that constantly increase his stats, energy, potency in abilities, resistances, strength etc. .. Which means his 7 layers of Time power isn't limited to such notion, which layers will passively and constantly increase more than 7 layers throughout the fight.

Is there any page/blog that justifies those layers?

 

[LaserPrecision]

If you can, can you put the Layers into the P&A tab of the characters themselves, once any CRT and revisions are accepted?

I always hate that any Layers explanation is in a different blog/page, it becomes confusing.

Yeah, ofc. It looks way better in P&A tab. It will be in a blog AND in the tabbers for sake of convenience.

 

[Shar122]

Goku wouldn't have the ability to affect Super Sonic (with his hax) due to being fueled with Chaos Energy. He would need the ability to interact with Chaos Energy to affect Super Sonic with anything. And Super Sonic's energy is accepted as like 6 levels into abstraction. Layers are irrelevant since levels of abstraction > layers.

Ok judging based on his profile, That doesn't make Sonic himself uninteractable, But just his Chaos energy, but it doesn't mean he would resist Goku's hax, he will passively Into oblivion, but tho remember they start in Base form.. This version of Goku is more serious than the mainline, he would end the fight quickly. Knowing his opponent would be a threat. He can just summon TPU Demigra who can just also passively erase him immediately. + Dark Factor's Corruption (all Types), Mind Manipulation, Morality Manipulation & Madness Manipulation Type 2.

Enhanced Abstract Existence (Type 1 for his energy; Due to the Chaos Emerald's energy being the super-substances and giving vitality to all living things, their energy is both part of and more abstract than abstract beings such as The End, Void, which is additionally stated to be part of the emotions necessary for dreams to exist, and even Illumina and the Precioustone)

If you can, can you put the Layers into the P&A tab of the characters themselves, once any CRT and revisions are accepted?

I always hate that any Layers explanation is in a different blog/page, it becomes confusing.


Is there any page/blog that justifies those layers?

Yeah, here;

DBH stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Shar122]

7 Layers:
Super Saiyan Blue: Universe Tree Power Goku, Awakened Keysword, Time Power Unleashed Demigra & True Form/Time Power Unleashed Tokitoki (By obtaining a portion of True Form Tokitoki's Time Power[8], he was capable of breaking through Fu's/Dogidogi's nullification & nullify him instead[9]. The Awakened Keysword also obtained a portion of True Form Tokitoki's power, and it nullified & sealed away TPU Mechikabura in the Eternal Labyrinth despite his resistances.[16] Demigra's Time Power is massively amplified by his stronger Dark Factor which surpassed even Universe Tree Fu as he is regarded as the deadliest enemy[30] yet. True Form/Time Power Unleashed Tokitoki is the strongest Time Power user in the series, and even a portion of his power eclipses Dogidogi and should be massively above Demigra)

 

[LaserPrecision]

Ok judging based on his profile, That doesn't make Sonic himself uninteractable, But just his Chaos energy, but it doesn't mean he would resist Goku's hax, remember they start in Base form..

I wasn't saying Super Sonic is uninteractable. He can be physically struck. However, the nature of Chaos Energy causes Super Sonic to be affected by all sorts of abilities, and even nullifies everything. Hell, even Chaos Energy itself can physically interact with things if the user pleases. Goku would

1. Needs to get past Super Sonic's aura which IS pure Chaos Energy, and nullifies any ability that tries to get past it (and blows up anything physical that comes into contact with it)
2. Has to be able to affect Chaos Energy anyways because Super Sonic becomes one WITH Chaos Energy (Hence why his form changes to begin with. This is consistent because everything in Sonic is made FROM Chaos Energy, it is the super substance of all existence, and Chaos Energy is shown to elevate the nature of abilities to its level)

Goku could touch Super Sonic, but his abilities ain't doing anything to him unless his abilities have evidence of affecting something as abstract as Chaos Energy in natue.

This version of Goku is more serious than the mainline, he would end the fight quickly. Knowing his opponent would be a threat. He can just summon TPU Demigra who can just also passively erase him immediately. + Dark Factor's Corruption (all Types), Mind Manipulation, Morality Manipulation & Madness Manipulation Type 2.

The context of the match is they start the fight as a friendly spar. Even if he's more serious, he's not opening with this. As a DB fan, I know Goku is more than willing to spar, and Sonic is also very much willing to do so before whipping out anything crazy (Given the context here)

Both Goku and Sonic are completely in Character (basically starting out as a Sparring Match), but more than willing to win

If Goku tries anything like powering up, or pulling out some sort of trick, Sonic's doing the same to even the playing field.

 

[Shar122]

I wasn't saying Super Sonic is uninteractable. He can be physically struck. However, the nature of Chaos Energy causes Super Sonic to be affected by all sorts of abilities, and even nullifies everything. Hell, even Chaos Energy itself can physically interact with things if the user pleases. Goku would

1. Needs to get past Super Sonic's aura which IS pure Chaos Energy, and nullifies any ability that tries to get past it (and blows up anything physical that comes into contact with it)
2. Has to be able to affect Chaos Energy anyways because Super Sonic becomes one WITH Chaos Energy (Hence why his form changes to begin with. This is consistent because everything in Sonic is made FROM Chaos Energy, it is the super substance of all existence, and Chaos Energy is shown to elevate the nature of abilities to its level)

Goku could touch Super Sonic, but his abilities ain't doing anything to him unless his abilities have evidence of affecting something as abstract as Chaos Energy in natue.

The context of the match is they start the fight as a friendly spar. Even if he's more serious, he's not opening with this. As a DB fan, I know Goku is more than willing to spar, and Sonic is also very much willing to do so before whipping out anything crazy (Given the context here)

If Goku tries anything like powering up, or pulling out some sort of trick, Sonic's doing the same to even the playing field.

Funny thing is Universe Blue Goku's Passive aura isn't just physical.. Plus couldn't just the Universe tree absorbed that stuff? Because it's known that Universe tree can absorbed unfamiliar Energy different from its metaphysical nature.

 

[Shar122]

Universe tree will gain some of the chaos energy nature of itself, and will tip the battlefield, allowing Goku to interact with Sonic's Chaos energy.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Funny thing is Universe Blue Goku's Passive aura isn't just physical.. Plus couldn't just the Universe tree absorbed that stuff? Because it's known that Universe tree can absorbed unfamiliar Energy different from its metaphysical nature.

It being non-physical is worse. Chaos Energy negates and is unaffected by that stuff. Physical things CAN interact with Chaos Energy (Shadow's shown to create spears out of it which physically impale people, Super Forms get hit around), though can't do much to change/affect it (Honestly planned to give Super Forms subjective reality manipulation too. Feels kinda weird they haven't yet).

It being able to affect unfamiliar energies =/= being able to affect ALL foreign energy. Especially when Chaos Energy is far more abstract/complex in nature than anything in Heroes/Xenoverse. It can only absorb things similar to what it's been shown to absorb (Which can still be things that are unfamiliar, but has to fall under the nature of ki or whatever other energy it's shown to absorb). Technically Chaos Energy should be Non-Duality too or whatever, but that was restricted. But the abstract nature of Chaos Energy alone would suffice.

Goku's only shot is against Base Sonic. Or like, not trying to pull a fast one on Base Sonic and just trying to box him up normally, lol. Think that'd be cooler anyways. But I might have to look into smth, because IIRC, the Emeralds might protect Sonic even before he transforms. They're shown to favor Sonic (The Emeralds are sentient weirdly enough), and have shown to repel attempts to affect them with Chaos Energy. Granted I'm not 100% certain of that.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Universe tree will gain some of the chaos energy nature of itself, and will tip the battlefield, allowing Goku to interact with Sonic's Chaos energy.

It would need feats of being able to interact with smth as abstract as Chaos Energy. If it has, sure. If not, it won't even recognize it. Let alone gain any of it. (Sorry if this comment came off rude. I try to be blunt but polite to the best of my ability :3)

 

[Apotheosis69]

Now This is gettin good.

As the lyrics of the song goes...
Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight

 

[Shar122]

It would needs feats of being able to interact with smth as abstract as Chaos Energy. If it has, sure. If not, it won't even recognize it. Let alone gain any of it. (Sorry if this comment came off rude. I try to be blunt but polite to the best of my ability :3)

Smh, I can still argue Universe tree can absorb conceptual shenanigans (due to absorbing the avatar of the time bird due to governing the order and the flow of all of time, timelines, histories, all of existence etc.., establishing the existence of all dimensions etc..).. If the OP allows me to. time power concept hax got nuked for whatever reason. Tho Since this is fun and games anyways.

 

[Shar122]

I wasn't saying Super Sonic is uninteractable. He can be physically struck. However, the nature of Chaos Energy causes Super Sonic to be affected by all sorts of abilities, and even nullifies everything. Hell, even Chaos Energy itself can physically interact with things if the user pleases. Goku would

1. Needs to get past Super Sonic's aura which IS pure Chaos Energy, and nullifies any ability that tries to get past it (and blows up anything physical that comes into contact with it)
2. Has to be able to affect Chaos Energy anyways because Super Sonic becomes one WITH Chaos Energy (Hence why his form changes to begin with. This is consistent because everything in Sonic is made FROM Chaos Energy, it is the super substance of all existence, and Chaos Energy is shown to elevate the nature of abilities to its level)

Goku could touch Super Sonic, but his abilities ain't doing anything to him unless his abilities have evidence of affecting something as abstract as Chaos Energy in natue.

The context of the match is they start the fight as a friendly spar. Even if he's more serious, he's not opening with this. As a DB fan, I know Goku is more than willing to spar, and Sonic is also very much willing to do so before whipping out anything crazy (Given the context here)

If Goku tries anything like powering up, or pulling out some sort of trick, Sonic's doing the same to even the playing field.

I'm still skeptical about this, is there a statement that backing up this claim?..