Zeldris vs Monkey D. Luffy

[Makai641001]

No, Zeldris has a 3.49x advantage from Base Luffy. Just like Zeldris can add enchantments, Luffy can use his Gears (which he uses more in combat that his base anyways).
Zeldris: 1.513 Zettatons, 15.13 Zettatons with enchantments, 30 Zettatons with Ominous Nebula
Luffy: 433 Exatons, 1.731 Zettatons in Gear 4th: Snakeman or Gear 2nd + Gear 3rd, 3.462 Zettatons in Gear 4th: Boundman

So more likely than not by the time Zeldris is using enchantments, Luffy is not 35x below that value, but something closer to 5-6x due to Gears.

NNT characters often use enchantments in character tho

This is true, but ON would not be fast enough to be a perception blitz due to Luffy's sensory abilities, speed multipliers, precog/future sight, and instinctive reaction,

It still is way faster than him and way more powerfull than him

What Demon Lord said is incorrect.

He showed a panel that kind of showed that Luffy does not passively turn everything into rubber

He said that Lufy doesn't change his opponents weapons to rubber, but in the scene he sent, Luffy instead used his body manipulation to avoid taking damage entirely by morphing his body around the shape of the weapon, even if it has resistance negation. This is on Luffy's profile:

He still takes damage and ON is a blade

It has been shown time and time again that when Luffy is in Gear 5th, he passively turns his surroundings into rubber.

As he lays down he passively turns the ground under him into rubber, causing him to bounce. This prompts Kaidou to state that Luffy is "transferring [his] rubber power to other things."
He gets hit into the ground by Kaidou but the ground passively gets turned into rubber, softening the effect of Kaidou's blow
Luffy continues to bounce as the ground below him gets turned into rubber
Luffy transforms into Gear 5th and the ground around him automatically and passively turns into rubber, sending all the marine soldiers around him flying.
Luffy's transformation turns an entire half of Egghead Island into rubber, causing the inhabitants to feel like the entire thing is shaking.
Luffy's transformation causes Egghead Island and the surrounding Seas to turning into bouncy rubber, causing the ships to bounce and the people to feel an earthquake

Luffy in Gear 5th also actively turns things into rubber, as in the things he goes out of his way to touch and interact with become rubber.

Luffy enters inside of Kaidou's body and moves around, turning Kaidou's innards into rubber as a result. Kaidou responds saying "What's wrong with me?! My body isn't made of rubber!"
Luffy turns Kaidou's skin into rubber, but leaves his internals normal in order to act as a form of durability negation when he strikes. This is on Luffy's profile:

All of Luffy's attacks turn Kaidou into rubber.
Luffy grabs lightning and it turns into rubber. He is able to swing on it or throw it as a projectile.
Luffy grabs onto Kaidou while he is unconscious and Kaidou's skin turns into rubber despite the fact.
Luffy punches the ground and it turns into rubber, morphing around his fist to where he desires.
Luffy jumps into a pipe and it automatically turns into rubber, which he uses as a boost to hit Luffy, which the area his fist comes into contact with also turning into rubber.
Luffy grabs two opponents relative to himself, turns them into rubber, smashes them together until they are flat (durability negation), spins them on his finger, and throws them away as BFR and they remain rubber until he desires.
Luffy turns a 3D hologram made of light into rubber, which allows him to morph it into a baseball bat and use it to hit away several explosive balls powerful enough to destroy the body of someone far more durable than even himself without the bat itself getting destroyed.

Tho it apparently doesn’t happen EVERYTIME since we saw it didn’t in this instance

Anyway it doesn’t really matter ON is Massively more powerful than even G5 Luffy and hits thousands of times in an instant Luffy could take 1 30 zettatons hit not thousands

 

[Kachon123]

NNT characters often use enchantments in character tho

Same with Luffy and Gears.

It still is way faster than him and way more powerfull than him

It is not way faster than him.

He showed a panel that kind of showed that Luffy does not passively turn everything into rubber

Tho it apparently doesn’t happen EVERYTIME since we saw it didn’t in this instance

You very clearly have not read what I typed. Go through it again since NNT seem to not like reading profiles I took time out of my day and sat down and gave you literally every instance. Essentially saying "well no" is not a response.

Anyway it doesn’t really matter ON is Massively more powerful than even G5 Luffy and hits thousands of times in an instant Luffy could take 1 30 zettatons hit not thousands

It's not thousands of times in an instant because Luffy in Gear 5th is not much slower, and can see stuff in slow motion as well as the literal future.

He still takes damage and ON is a blade

Based on what? It gets turned to rubber.

 

[speedster352]

Same with Luffy and Gears.

It is not way faster than him.


You very clearly have not read what I typed. Go through it again since NNT seem to not like reading profiles I took time out of my day and sat down and gave you literally every instance. Essentially saying "well no" is not a response.

It's not thousands of times in an instant because Luffy in Gear 5th is not much slower, and can see stuff in slow motion as well as the literal future.

Based on what? It gets turned to rubber.

We already established that ON is 25 times faster. Unless you can prove Luffy can see and counter things 25 times faster than him he wouldn't be able to counter ON. Based on what you said at most he would only things a slowed down but you have to prove it works on things 25x faster or it would be a NLF because several times can be between 2-3 nowhere near 25x.

 

[Kachon123]

We already established that ON is 25 times faster

Than base Luffy. Stop making me repeat myself.

 

[Makai641001]

Same with Luffy and Gears.

Luffy started in base even against an admiral strong enough to hold his own against G5 (Ultimately being weaker but still)

It is not way faster than him.

Luffy scales at 9.44 c

ON sits at 25c lowball being able to completely perception blitz Ludociel and draw him in

DM2 makes it 50c

Full react makes it higher

You very clearly have not read what I typed. Go through it again since NNT seem to not like reading profiles I took time out of my day and sat down and gave you literally every instance. Essentially saying "well no" is not a response.

Just saying he showed an instance where it’s not the case

It's not thousands of times in an instant because Luffy in Gear 5th is not much slower, and can see stuff in slow motion as well as the literal future.

He is more than 5x slower in G5 around 25x in base

Based on what? It gets turned to rubber.

Even if it was rubber it would still deal damage and would hit a LOT

 

[Kachon123]

Luffy started in base even against an admiral strong enough to hold his own against G5 (Ultimately being weaker but still)

You mean his first attack? He went straight into Snakeman for his next attacks so you're proving my point. Luffy literally has Kenbunshoku Haki which can sense power. He has no reason to stay in base.

Luffy scales at 9.44 c

ON sits at 25c lowball being able to completely perception blitz Ludociel and draw him in

DM2 makes it 50c

Full react makes it higher

Zeldris is in DM3 and ON is 25c. Luffy far upscales from 9.44c and gets faster the more he fights due to acceleration. That has barely a 2x gap. Luffy can literally see people relative to him in slow motion and can see the future. There's no way for you to argue this is a blitz without you blatantly ignoring wiki rules.

Just saying he showed an instance where it’s not the case

Where Luffy used reality manipulation and body control to not take damage? Luffy was still litrally turning his surroundings into rubber in the instance you're talking about.

He is more than 5x slower in G5 around 25x in base

ON is 25c.

Even if it was rubber it would still deal damage and would hit a LOT

Not when they're getting squished flat by far higher LS.

 

[speedster352]

This match really can't work unless Gear 5 is restricted.

 

[Makai641001]

You mean his first attack? He went straight into Snakeman for his next attacks so you're proving my point. Luffy literally has Kenbunshoku Haki which can sense power. He has no reason to stay in base.

Zeldris is in DM3 and ON is 25c. Luffy far upscales from 9.44c and gets faster the more he fights due to acceleration. That has barely a 2x gap. Luffy can literally see people relative to him in slow motion and can see the future. There's no way for you to argue this is a blitz without you blatantly ignoring wiki rules.

Where Luffy used reality manipulation and body control to not take damage? Luffy was still litrally turning his surroundings into rubber in the instance you're talking about.

ON is 25c.

Yeah that’s exactly what I say ON is 25c, gets 2x faster with DM2 higher with DM3 far higher with full react

Not when they're getting squished flat by far higher LS.

Luffy starting in base would mean getting exposed to something tens of times faster than him and like 70x stronger lol

ON can be used while moving and if Luffy gets caught in it he’ll get killed mid transformation

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah that’s exactly what I say ON is 25c, gets 2x faster with DM2 higher with DM3 far higher with full react

Zeldris is in DM3

Luffy starting in base would mean getting exposed to something tens of times faster than him and like 70x stronger lol

ON can be used while moving and if Luffy gets caught in it he’ll get killed mid transformation

Luffy's transformation is instant. He uses his gears in compare far more often in his base so Zeldris will not be using ON on base Luffy. Stop arguing as if he would.

 

[Makai641001]

Luffy's transformation is instant. He uses his gears in compare far more often in his base so Zeldris will not be using ON on base Luffy. Stop arguing as if he would.

Zeldris starting in DM3 makes it even worse lol he then starts higher than 50c far higher with full react

Zel used ON as a first move against the entire Merlin team lol despite them being weaker than him…

He used it instantly against the hermit one shotting him

 

[Kachon123]

Zeldris starting in DM3 makes it even worse lol he then starts higher than 50c far higher with full react

ON is 25c.

Zel used ON as a first move against the entire Merlin team lol despite them being weaker than him…

He used it instantly against the hermit one shotting him

Okay? Luffy can see into the future.

 

[Makai641001]

ON is 25c.

In DM1 yea

Okay? Luffy can see into the future.

Zeldris can move while using ON Luffy will see himself getting turned to dust and try to turn into G5 into getting hit thousands of times by attacks that individually can hurt him pretty bad…

 

[speedster352]

Here are the weaknesses of observation haki.

Additionally, even if an individual is able to predict an attack, they still need to be able to dodge the attack to avoid damage. If the user has been physically restrained,<a href="https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Haki/Observation_Haki#cite_note-c980-45"><span>[</span>43<span>]</span></a> or the attack is too fast for the user to react to,<a href="https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Haki/Observation_Haki#cite_note-46"><span>[</span>44<span>]</span></a> it will land regardless of how proficient they are with Observation Haki.<a href="https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Haki/Observation_Haki#cite_note-47"><span>[</span>45<span>]</span></a>In addition, while Observation Haki can predict attacks, it cannot tell one how to dodge an attack. As a result, abilities that have special activation requirements cannot be dodged if the user does not understand the mechanics of the ability. Luffy, despite having Future Sight, was unable to dodge the attacks from Apoo's Oto Oto no Mi because he did not know they were activated by sound and was expecting a projectile-based attack based on his own perceptions.

 

[speedster352]

ON is 25c.

Okay? Luffy can see into the future.

Observation Haki is still limited to the senses or how one perceives and attacks. Since ON is 25x faster than Luffy he wouldn't be able to properly perceive it.

Here are the weaknesses of observation haki.

 

[Makai641001]

Here are the weaknesses of observation haki.

Yeah… I didn’t know about that voting Zeldris

 

[karo_senpaii]

Tbh looking at ON calc the scan used for pixelling he is in dm2 form.

That aside zeldris should be starting in base coz like starting in dm3 is weird.

See zeldris is actually > 4c in that key so equalising speed and ON is then just about 6.2 times faster than luffy . With gears Luffy ends up being almost twice as fast as zeldris himself and almost if not as fast as ON zeldris ultimate attack.

So I just feel speed should be unequalised or zeldris should also start in base.

 

[Purgy]

Is Zeldris ordinarily faster than base Luffy? Because if so, speed equalized rules pretty much invalidate Luffy's various speed amps.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Is Zeldris ordinarily faster than base Luffy? Because if so, speed equalized rules pretty much invalidate Luffy's various speed amps.

It doesn't invalidate it. It just means Luffy win con must not be tied to his speed like blitzing or something.

 

[Purgy]

It doesn't invalidate it. It just means Luffy win con must not be tied to his speed like blitzing or something.

According to what people have said in this thread, Gear 2 alone is already a blitz level amp, nevermind Gear 4 or even Gear 5, also it doesn't need to be a blitz, any win by the slower character that can be reasonably attributed to a speed advantage they wouldn't ordinarily have is invalid.

 

[karo_senpaii]

According to what people have said in this thread, Gear 2 alone is already a blitz level amp, nevermind Gear 4 or even Gear 5, also it doesn't need to be a blitz, any win by the slower character that can be reasonably attributed to a speed advantage they wouldn't ordinarily have is invalid.

That's why I said they should both just start in base and unequalise speed

 

[speedster352]

Bump

 

[Kachon123]

One Piece got upgraded so I was going through old matches and came across this. I wonder what happened?

Well Luffy now scales to 24.11034 Zettatons, meaning the Ominous Nebula wincon isn't really viable and he'd one-shot with a direct hit. Does Zeldris have a stronger key that would make this more fair?

 

[karo_senpaii]

One Piece got upgraded so I was going through old matches and came across this. I wonder what happened?

Well Luffy now scales to 24.11034 Exatons, meaning the Ominous Nebula wincon isn't really viable and he'd one-shot with a direct hit. Does Zeldris have a stronger key that would make this more fair?

You mean 24zet?

 

[Kachon123]

You mean 24zet?

Yes, my bad.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yeah zeldris doesn't really stand a chance

 

[Demon_Lord18]

One Piece got upgraded so I was going through old matches and came across this. I wonder what happened?

Well Luffy now scales to 24.11034 Zettatons, meaning the Ominous Nebula wincon isn't really viable and he'd one-shot with a direct hit. Does Zeldris have a stronger key that would make this more fair?

Zeldris now scales to 650 Megafoe

 

[Kachon123]

Thr match has long since been ended. Not sure why you're posting here.