Lego Monkie Kid Verse Fixing

[Lloydblitzed]

How the f*uck can a concept be dimensioned by default? So like, they are affected by spatially now? ABSTRACT CONCEPTS?!

If your verse has dimensioned concepts, they are genuinely weaker than a verse that doesn't. Same with mind, soul, etc etc.

AE Concepts can embody whole 4D structures and so on. Why should we assume they don't scale? Tho tbh this should just be made into a staff discussion atp

 

[Arency]

Yeah, from the scene, it seems more like soul stuff rather than like "he transformed into that guy", then he remembered/got friendship power and came back. Tho, I'm not knowledgeable in the verse. I would personally feel like it's quite weird to assume otherwise for now. Especially since the character seems to have soul manipulation too on his profile.

In the scroll's profile, he has both biological and soul manipulation. The biology for altering the body while the soul is for transporting it to their past lifes, a BFR thing

 

[SweetDao]

Why should we assume concepts are unbounded by default without explicit proof from the verse itself to begin with? I feel like this is a big assumption

Yeah, big assumption, sure.

If I use the concept of death to kill you, does it mean it's only "the 3D concept of death" that I used to kill you? Be logical man.

This is the same for soul and such. Unless it's stated in verse that smurf can exist (like, for example, a verse where it's explicitly stated that interacting with a higher dimensional mind/souls/whatever is uncountably infinitely harder than a same-D one) it would be strictly the same "feat" regarding potency

AE Concepts can embody whole 4D structures and so on.

That's range, not potency.

Why should we assume they don't scale?

Because that's range, not potency.

in the scroll's profile, he has both biological and soul manipulation. The biology for altering the body while the soul is for transporting it to their past lifes, a BFR thing

Biology manipulation, in that current situation, doesn't seem to deal with mind at all. Unless you can prove with an explicit statement that "he altered the brain of the character" instead of just "yeah, he put them in their old's life body".

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah, big assumption, sure.

If I use the concept of death to kill you, does it mean it's only "the 3D concept of death" that I used to kill you? Be logical man.

That's NLF. Any higher dimensional/more potent death concept would kill you

This is the same for soul and such. Unless it's stated in verse that smurf can exist (like, for example, a verse where it's explicitly stated that interacting with a higher dimensional mind/souls/whatever is uncountably infinitely harder than a same-D one) it would be strictly the same "feat" regarding potency

It should really be the contrary

That's range, not potency.

Because that's range, not potency.

Also, send an example of "someone concentrating their concept power into a small area/projectile"

 

[SweetDao]

That's NLF. Any higher dimensional/more potent death concept would kill you

Lol.

• If the hax INTERACTS with a METAPHYSICAL ASPECT of the target (soul, personal concepts, MIND; do note that if any of these have physical sizes instead of being purely metaphysical, they will instead be treated as the previous type), smurf is anything that works on more REAL targets, as otherwise the hax-user SIMPLY NEEDS to be able to target that aspect successfully. Do note, however, that many characters will "resist" weaker aspect manipulation, despite not any functioning aspect manipulation gaining smurf properties, as that aspect of theirs is simply considered out of range. Mind manip ISN'T STRONGER for being able to hit a mind a timeline away, but if your mind is a timeline away, many characters will fail to reach it.

• If the hax interacts with REALITY ITSELF (law manipulation, supernatural luck, reality warping, REALITY-WIDE CONCEPTS), there are NO SMURF abilities. Anyone that goes within reach of the ability will be affected, and anyone who can sidestep it (i.e. by destroying the reality without entering it) won't be.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Lol.

Im specifically against the metaphysical standards thing here and answer the 2nd question

 

[Arency]

Biology manipulation, in that current situation, doesn't seem to deal with mind at all. Unless you can prove with an explicit statement that "he altered the brain of the character" instead of just "yeah, he put them in their old's life body".

Pretty sure @LephyrTheRevanchist explains that mind manip by default assumption is done to the brain. If its done towards the abstract mind, you would need feats for it.

Also I know MGQ mentioned having abstract mind manip is better than any biological mind manip as it can bypass but I'm not the type that wants to wank my own verse with lacking evidence.

 

[SweetDao]

Im specifically against the metaphysical standards thing here and answer the 2nd question

And I'm against the idea that you can "concentrate" stuff to bypass unless it is extremely clear inside the verse. So no, I'll not give you a case of "people concentrating their hax potency to have smurf potency" because I feel it's bullshit and so much situational it shouldn't even be a thing.

If you disagree with the metaphysical standard, make a thread.

Pretty sure @LephyrTheRevanchist explains that mind manip by default assumption is done to the brain. If its done towards the abstract mind, you would need feats for it.

I think it depends on the context of the verse, I would say. The current one has a lot of mythology, philosophical stuff. I heavily doubt it's just "yeah, actually I just manipulated the component/electric currents (if it's the right term), etc" of your brains. Could be, obviously, but unlikely, I feel like.

Also I know MGQ mentioned having abstract mind manip is better than any biological mind manip as it can bypass but I'm not the type that wants to wank my own verse with lacking evidence.

Well, I mean, personally, I would say it's more "Mind" rather than "brain" here. That's my take on it. If staff thinks otherwise, so be it.

 

[Arency]

I think it depends on the context of the verse, I would say. The current one has a lot of mythology, philosophical stuff. I heavily doubt it's just "yeah, actually I just manipulated the component/electric currents (if it's the right term), etc" of your brains. Could be, obviously, but unlikely, I feel like.

Well, I mean, personally, I would say it's more "Mind" rather than "brain" here. That's my take on it. If staff thinks otherwise, so be it.

Thanks for your input, it's best for us to have a civil discussion.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And I'm against the idea that you can "concentrate" stuff to bypass unless it is extremely clear inside the verse. So no, I'll not give you a case of "people concentrating their hax potency to have smurf potency" because I feel it's bullshit and so much situational it shouldn't even be a thing.

So we were debating a non-existent rule of the standards for 4 pages along with the real ones?

If you disagree with the metaphysical standard, make a thread.

Is that not what I said I want to do?

 

[SweetDao]

So we were debating a non-existent rule of the standards for 4 pages along with the real ones?

That whole "concentrating stuff" IS a thing, as Agnaa stated. I just don't believe in it and, even taking that out of the equation, wouldn't apply to that specific case.

Is that not what I said I want to do?

Good luck trying to argue that concepts are dimensioned.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Good luck trying to argue that concepts are dimensioned.

Good luck trying to assume they are unbound by it

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Good luck trying to assume they are unbound by it

concept of dimensions (bound by dimensions and exhibit dimensional properties themselves. true and real)

 

[Deonment]

Good luck trying to assume they are unbound by it

Tell me the measure of a concept
Tell me the size of a soul
Give me the coordinates of a mind (not brain, mind)
You can't, because they do not innately have these things, unless the verse says otherwise (which you would have to prove ala bleach). This isn't an assumption or a "prove it", it's just a natural fact of what they are, the Laws of Physics (the actual ones, not our theories about it) are the same in infinite dimensions as they are in four, no two ways about it.

 

[Johner2133451]

Tell me the measure of a concept
Tell me the size of a soul
Give me the coordinates of a mind (not brain, mind)
You can't, because they do not innately have these things, unless the verse says otherwise (which you would have to prove ala bleach). This isn't an assumption or a "prove it", it's just a natural fact of what they are, the Laws of Physics (the actual ones, not our theories about it) are the same in infinite dimensions as they are in four, no two ways about it.

Speaking of bleach, do you think the verse can have 4D Mind smurf? Since soul society is a L2-C realm is entirely made of reishi (which is souls). And every souls in bleach is connected to the mind

 

[Robo432343]

Speaking of bleach, do you think the verse can have 4D Mind smurf? Since soul society is a L2-C realm is entirely made of reishi (which is souls). And every souls in bleach is connected to the mind

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Tell me the measure of a concept
Tell me the size of a soul
Give me the coordinates of a mind (not brain, mind)
You can't, because they do not innately have these things, unless the verse says otherwise (which you would have to prove ala bleach). This isn't an assumption or a "prove it", it's just a natural fact of what they are, the Laws of Physics (the actual ones, not our theories about it) are the same in infinite dimensions as they are in four, no two ways about it.

First, No thats not how it works. Two prove it's a "natural fact" that's your burden to prove that this supposed understanding is true not I have to prove it's false that's not how it works. Three again this is borderline triangle scaling which everyone should agree to is inherently wrong. Four Minds can be 3D under a assumption the same way you are trying to say they lack the 3 spatial vectors. If the positive claim is minds are 3D then that's what would be required but you are just kind of asserting that natively minds aren't 3D which that burden would be on you to prove they just inherently don't go to 3D without context. I do think minds inherently are 3D unless the verse says otherwise because the more natural assumption is that if the brain is 3D then the mind should also logically be 3D. Size of the soul doesn't matter to the amount of the vectors though? like where does it say under any special "Occoms" razor viewpoint that size matters to the amount of vectors a soul has? like if my body is 3D and my mind is 3D my soul is 3D but that soul has no size unless stated, So I don't get the point of bringing up size. Finally I don't understand the whole notion of "laws of physics" here given hypervolume > volume and physics in hypervolume is actually pretty different considering they are working in higher dimensions compared to the normal 2D or 3D model they usually work in besides curvature models. (Holy yap)

Anyways...we should fr stop derailing, this is supposed to be a simple feat replacement and Cosmology page creation based on stuff that was ALREADY ACCEPTED

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Anyways...we should fr stop derailing, this is supposed to be a simple feat replacement and Cosmology page creation based on stuff that was ALREADY ACCEPTED

Which is blatantly wrong according to standards. And the topic is still about a new feat for supposed 4-D hax potency to replace another feat for 4-D hax potency. I’m saying that neither should be 4-D including introduced feat. Upgrades or threads like this can spin around to becoming downgrades as well if something just goes against what’s standard. Since it would be very bad practice to acknowledge something violates standards and then still pass a CRT involving the standard violation.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Which is blatantly wrong according to standards. And the topic is still about a new feat for supposed 4-D hax potency to replace another feat for 4-D hax potency. I’m saying that neither should be 4-D including introduced feat. Upgrades or threads like this can spin around to becoming downgrades as well if something just goes against what’s standard. Since it would be very bad practice to acknowledge something violates standards and then still pass a CRT involving the standard violation.

The only thing "wrong" here is Wukong's resistance. The Scroll of Memory isn't affeced by the changes. The Multiverse Cosmology page also has nothing to do with the Smurf Hax yappery

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

The only thing "wrong" here is Wukong's resistance. The Scroll of Memory isn't affeced by the changes. The Multiverse Cosmology page also has nothing to do with the Smurf Hax yappery

My focus was on mind hax stuff which is still part of the CRT and isn’t really derailing.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

My focus was on mind hax stuff which is still part of the CRT and isn’t really derailing.

Yeah it kinda is. We went from this to arguing the standards themselves and on top of that, some of us decides we should argue a standard that isn't it even one

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yeah it kinda is. We went from this to arguing the standards themselves and on top of that, some of us decides we should argue a standard that isn't it even one

Well I’m just gonna say 4-D part of mind hax should be removed from CRT and blah blah because it was literally accepted that metaphysical stuff can’t typically be higher-D in potency and what not very clearly said by Agnaa. I’m done arguing here

 

[AigerTheKing]

Wrong thread, mate.

Address the OP when?

My focus was on mind hax stuff which is still part of the CRT and isn’t really derailing.

Wukong's magic is 4D. His magic affects his resistances which means its 4D too

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Address the OP when?

Wukong's magic is 4D. His magic affects his resistances which means its 4D too

******* hell. What part of its impossible for metaphysical aspects to be higher-D Smurf potency hard to understand

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Well I’m just gonna say 4-D part of mind hax should be removed from CRT and blah blah because it was literally accepted that metaphysical stuff can’t typically be higher-D in potency and what not very clearly said by Agnaa. I’m done arguing here

meh fair