Berserk Scaling Changes

[ElJoaki5]

Guts scaling to the Sea God's storm
BA Guts should scale to Sea God's storm (Large Town level). This storm was caused by the Sea God's vocal cords with a wail (therefore the vocal cords have large town dura) and Guts was able to cut through the Sea God's stomach wall. It is pretty logical to assume that the stomach walls should be more durable since they hold acid and in the Sea God's case, the stomach is way bigger in proportion.

Agree:
Disagree: @Damage3245

Skull Knight scaling to Shiva Ganishka in AP with the Sword of Actuation
Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the bowels of the Astral World (With bowels meaning the deepest inner parts or areas of something).

In this case we know that the deepest part of the Astral World is the Abyss. So since Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the abyss, then we can scale Skull Knight to him (City to Mountain+ level) since he uses the Abyss itself as a weapon. Due to this we should also remove the ”possibly" in the City to Mountain+ scaling from the Godhand profiles.

Agree:
Disagree: @Damage3245


Small Planet level and Class Y Godhand (Scaling to the Crimson Behelit)
Both the Godhand and the Crimson Behelit are given powers by the Idea of Evil. Since the Godhands have a way more important role and the Behelit is just a way of transportation, it wouldn't make sense for the Idea of Evil to give the Crimson Behelit more power than the Godhands.

Agree:
Disagree: @Damage3245

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Obviously agree

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

And we can go higher, although this is probably wank:

Berserk: Sea Storm God Recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Damage3245]

BA Guts should scale to Sea God's storm (Large Town level). This storm was caused by the Sea God's vocal cords with a wail (therefore the vocal cords have large town dura) and Guts was able to cut through the Sea God's stomach wall. It is pretty logical to assume that the stomach walls should be more durable since they hold acid and in the Sea God's case, the stomach is way bigger in proportion.

What makes you think it was the sheer energy of the Sea God's yelling that caused the storm (no scan of this in the OP) and not just some magical effect triggered by the Sea God? To give an example, just because a wizard says a spell that causes a storm, doesn't mean that the energy in his voice equals = the energy output of the storm. Also, consider that Guts is using a blade to cut across a relatively tiny fraction of the Sea God's mass; it's very questionable grounds for scaling.

Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the bowels of the Astral World (With bowels meaning the deepest inner parts or areas of something).

In this case we know that the deepest part of the Astral World is the Abyss. So since Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the abyss, then we can scale Skull Knight to him (City to Mountain+ level) since he uses the Abyss itself as a weapon. Due to this we should also remove the ”possibly" in the City to Mountain+ scaling from the Godhand profiles.

Why exactly would this make Skull Knight's attacks equal to Shiva? Both Shiva's origin being connected to the Abyss and the Skull Knight using the Sword of Actuation to summon an Abyss doesn't imply relativity between them.

Both the Godhand and the Crimson Behelit are given powers by the Idea of Evil. Since the Godhands have a way more important role and the Behelit is just a way of transportation, it wouldn't make sense for the Idea of Evil to give the Crimson Behelit more power than the Godhands.

This is just pure speculation and wishful thinking, not backed by any hard evidence for the Godhand's rating, I'm sorry to say.

Count me as disagreement with all three proposals for now.

 

[ElJoaki5]

What makes you think it was the sheer energy of the Sea God's yelling that caused the storm (no scan of this in the OP) and not just some magical effect triggered by the Sea God?

The Sea God has never shown any magic abilities, and with the way one thing is stated after the other, it seems pretty clear. What else could it be?

Why exactly would this make Skull Knight's attacks equal to Shiva? Both Shiva's origin being connected to the Abyss and the Skull Knight using the Sword of Actuation to summon an Abyss doesn't imply relativity between them.

It's the same abyss (theres only one abyss in the entire verse). Skull Knight scales to the abyss in AP due to being able to summon it and use it offensively. The abyss scales above Ganishka in AP due to Ganishka drawing his power from said abyss.
Ganishka<Abyss=Sword of Actuation

This is just pure speculation and wishful thinking, not backed by any hard evidence for the Godhand's rating, I'm sorry to say.

The purpose of the Behelit is to bring Griffith to the Idea of Evil so that the Idea of Evil can give him power. The purpose of Griffith is to be the one chosen by the Idea of Evil to be given power and rule freely as a God over mankind.
In this context I don't think its that big of an assumption to say the Idea of Evil gives more power to Griffith than to the Behelit.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

This is just pure speculation and wishful thinking, not backed by any hard evidence for the Godhand's rating, I'm sorry to say.

Count me as disagreement with all three proposals for now.

The purpose of the Behelit is to bring Griffith to the Idea of Evil so that the Idea of Evil can give him power. The purpose of Griffith is to be the one chosen by the Idea of Evil to be given power and rule freely as a God over mankind.
In this context I don't think its that big of an assumption to say the Idea of Evil gives more power to Griffith than to the Behelit.

Your both way ovethinking this. We have in text proof of the God Hand being superior.
Skull Knight carries a weapon called The Sword Of Actuation which is made of multiple Behelits.

The Swords of Actuation was made for the sole purpose for killing the God Hand (See Spatial Severance):

Skull Knight needed Multiple Behelits to hurt a God Hand ergo a God Hand is stronger than a single Behelit. Plus, Griffith casually deflected the blow by Skull Knight.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Your both way ovethinking this. We have in text proof of the God Hand being superior.
Skull Knight carries a weapon called The Sword Of Actuation which is made of multiple Behelits.

The Swords of Actuation was made for the sole purpose for killing the God Hand (See Spatial Severance):

Skull Knight needed Multiple Behelits to hurt the God Hand ergo a God Hand is stronger than a single Behelit. Plus, Griffith casually deflected the blow by Skull Knight.

Those are normal behelits tho. The crimson behelit is the one that caused the feat.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Those are normal behelits tho. The crimson behelit is the one that caused the feat.

Is there any statement that puts Crimson Behelit above a normal Behelit in power?

 

[ElJoaki5]

Is there any statement that puts Crimson Behelit above a normal Behelit in power?

The crimson behelits are for godhands and the normal ones are for apostles, so its pretty clear crimson ones are more powerful. Besides this the crimson behelit has way stronger showings (normal behelits only cause storms and the crimson one caused an eclipse).

 

[ElJoaki5]

Oh well you could just scale skull knight to small city due to behelits causing storms when activated but thats for later.

 

[Damage3245]

Plus, Griffith casually deflected the blow by Skull Knight.

Just to nitpick this line briefly; Griffith didn't accomplish this via AP. This was a Spatial Manipulation hax feat with Griffith effectively opening a portal around himself. To Skull Knight's blade, Griffith may as well have not been there at all.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Bump

 

[ElJoaki5]

Bump

 

[ElJoaki5]

Bump

 

[Arkenis]

Putting non mods as agree doesn't count.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

BA Guts should scale to Sea God's storm (Large Town level). This storm was caused by the Sea God's vocal cords with a wail (therefore the vocal cords have large town dura) and Guts was able to cut through the Sea God's stomach wall. It is pretty logical to assume that the stomach walls should be more durable since they hold acid and in the Sea God's case, the stomach is way bigger in proportion.

I agree

Skull Knight scaling to Shiva Ganishka in AP with the Sword of Actuation
Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the bowels of the Astral World (With bowels meaning the deepest inner parts or areas of something).

In this case we know that the deepest part of the Astral World is the Abyss. So since Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the abyss, then we can scale Skull Knight to him (City to Mountain+ level) since he uses the Abyss itself as a weapon. Due to this we should also remove the ”possibly" in the City to Mountain+ scaling from the Godhand profiles.

I agree

Small Planet level and Class Y Godhand (Scaling to the Crimson Behelit)
Both the Godhand and the Crimson Behelit are given powers by the Idea of Evil. Since the Godhands have a way more important role and the Behelit is just a way of transportation, it wouldn't make sense for the Idea of Evil to give the Crimson Behelit more power than the Godhands.

I'm not sure about that. But at least the profile could say "Low 5-B Environmental Destruction with Red Behelit."

Also, wasn't there a 6-C calc accepted for Griffith?

There was also a Class 50 LS.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Also, wasn't there a 6-C calc accepted for Griffith?

There was also a Class 50 LS.

Yeah but the crts got stalled

 

[ElJoaki5]

Count me as disagreement with all three proposals for now.

Can you come back to this? At least the second argument since you didn't even seem to understand it.

It's the same Abyss. There's only one.
It's first shown in prelude ch8. We see it's a big vortex of chained souls and that it's in the deepest part of the astral world.
We know Skull Knight makes portals to it because we see the same chain of souls come out.
We know Ganishka draws power from it because it's the deepest part of the astral world.

 

[Damage3245]

Can you come back to this? At least the second argument since you didn't even seem to understand it.

I'll go back over the arguments tomorrow.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I will say this scaling Guts to the Sea God's Storm is a no brainer.

The moment Guts cuts the Sea God's Heart. The storm immediately stops

But the Sea God didn't attack Guts with his Heart.

Wrong. It did Several Times.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I still find Guts scaling to Sea God pretty sketchy, and as Damage said it's probably more likely that the storm is a magical effect as opposed to a physical one. If it were a physical effect, then it likely would've scattered a storm instead of creating one, since a scream of that strength would essentially be propagating nuke-level shockwaves (shockwaves basically just being sound on steroids). I have no problem scaling Guts to its heart, but I really don't think it's vocal cords have much to do with anything, and that we should just try to figure out how much force the heart can generate, which should still be significant and worth calculating.

Maybe SoA scales? It seems like they utilize their power drawn from the Abyss for different ends (Ganishka pretty much just gets a flat strength and size amp via mutation, whereas SoA uses Abyssal power to split space), and I dunno that they draw a similar amount of power. If they do, though, I would think that SoA should upscale, actually, due to channeling a similar amount of power but through a smaller and more precise conduit, kinda like comparing a garden hose to a water jet cutter.

As for the third point, hard agree from me. Paraphrasing your point, the God Hand are the Idea of Evil's chief instruments outside The Abyss, and the Crimson Behelits are basically just their taxi ride to their job interview. It would make no sense for the Crimson Behelit to be superior to them in any way. I would that's especially the case since Idea can seemingly just pop Behelits out freely as needed whereas the creation of a God Hand requires mass sacrifice and soul harvesting, meaning creation of a God Hand implicitly has a greater cost and greater end result

 

[Arkenis]

The Sea God has never shown any magic abilities, and with the way one thing is stated after the other, it seems pretty clear. What else could it be?

I'm likely forgetting this part, but how was it dragging them in?

 

[Arkenis]

In this case we know that the deepest part of the Astral World is the Abyss. So since Shiva Ganishka draws his power from the abyss, then we can scale Skull Knight to him (City to Mountain+ level) since he uses the Abyss itself as a weapon. Due to this we should also remove the ”possibly" in the City to Mountain+ scaling from the Godhand profiles.

Is this usually how the scaling works in Berserk?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

I still find Guts scaling to Sea God pretty sketchy, and as Damage said it's probably more likely that the storm is a magical effect as opposed to a physical one. If it were a physical effect, then it likely would've scattered a storm instead of creating one, since a scream of that strength would essentially be propagating nuke-level shockwaves (shockwaves basically just being sound on steroids).

I think scream is the wrong word the Sea God did whatever this is:

To pull the storm in

 

[Da3ggman]

I’m down with all three, but I think the thirds reasoning is wonky.

Like, yeah, the Idea of Evil empowers both the Godhand and Crimson Behelit, but they’re created serve entirely different purposes, so that by itself doesn’t really mean much.

Granted, I still think they should scale because….well, they’re the ******* Godhand. They are vastly above anything in the verse bar the IoE itself and maybe Skull Knight depending on if you think he killed one of them (even that’s questionable, seeing as he got no-diffed by a brand new awakened Femto). They should scale to pretty much anything by virtue is being above everything and being considered invincible, and having the most control over fate and causality than anything else.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I think scream is the wrong word the Sea God did whatever this is:

To pull the storm in

Honestly, "BOGHHH" seems much more like a call or chant than a wail or scream imo. Granted, that's kinda splitting hairs in terms of semantics, but I feel it's an important distinction, as the former would suggest preternatural influence whereas the latter suggests essentially brute-forcing the elements into whipping up a storm.

 

[Chariot190]

You'd legit better off calcing the Sea God collapsing a cliff given that's an actual physical feat. Though scaling it is still difficult.

God Hand and Sword 100% upscale but your arguments for that ain't it, like I 100% think they do and I'd have to disagree with the CRT solely because the actual reasoning presented is faulty af.

 

[ElJoaki5]

God Hand and Sword 100% upscale but your arguments for that ain't it, like I 100% think they do and I'd have to disagree with the CRT solely because the actual reasoning presented is faulty af.

Then what are the good arguments?

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah I definitely disagree with Sea God for reasons above and probably a few of my own when I get time later

Other proposals seem more interesting though

 

[ElJoaki5]

Maybe SoA scales? It seems like they utilize their power drawn from the Abyss for different ends (Ganishka pretty much just gets a flat strength and size amp via mutation, whereas SoA uses Abyssal power to split space), and I dunno that they draw a similar amount of power. If they do, though, I would think that SoA should upscale, actually, due to channeling a similar amount of power but through a smaller and more precise conduit, kinda like comparing a garden hose to a water jet cutter.

I dont mean to say SoA draws its power from the abyss. What ive said is that the SoA can make portals to the abyss and use it as a wepaon. The Abyss is a weapon in Skull Knight's arsenal therefore he should scale to it in AP.

The SoA's power is derived from being made from behelits.

 

[Chariot190]

Then what are the good arguments?

Well for the God Hand, just the basic slop that says they're incomparably above everything else pretty much. Like it ain't one or two things, they're actual God Tiers. But this don't matter if you don't collect all the scans for it. Once you do it's as straightforward as going "yeah btw Whis > Beerus".
SoA downscales off them.

Though, like, I'm sure a calc could be made for the Astral Merge anyway, there was some cloud parting going on and Femto was ground zero at that, and luminosity could probably scale to the SoA directly given it lit up half the planet, which like, should be 7-Aish anyway.

Like there's a LOT of ways to go about getting upgrades, having it be legit, but the CRT atm is basically "trust me bro", we need scans to link for justification, they do exist, ya just gotta grab them.

Sea God is ***** tho, even physically scaling Guts, dealing minor damage to 0.01% of its tissue makes scaling hard, no different from a ant biting someone. Yeah he DOES cut it, but he's so much smaller and the damage is so miniscule that area effected becomes an actual argument and that thing passively curbs him too so... Maybe calc the shit he actually tanked from it idk.

 

[ElJoaki5]

I will say this scaling Guts to the Sea God's Storm is a no brainer.

The moment Guts cuts the Sea God's Heart. The storm immediately stops

Wrong. It did Several Times.

The storm stopped cause the sea god flat out died

 

[Damage3245]

Agreed with what Chariot said.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Well for the God Hand, just the basic slop that says they're incomparably above everything else pretty much. Like it ain't one or two things, they're actual God Tiers. But this don't matter if you don't collect all the scans for it. Once you do it's as straightforward as going "yeah btw Whis > Beerus".
SoA downscales off them.

Theyre stated to be above demonkind, theyre stated to be above the entirety of the physical world. A crimson behelit happens to be none of the above and there are no clear statements to them being superior to behelits, if i havent missed them that is.

Though, like, I'm sure a calc could be made for the Astral Merge anyway, there was some cloud parting going on and Femto was ground zero at that, and luminosity could probably scale to the SoA directly given it lit up half the planet, which like, should be 7-Aish anyway.

Already made the calc, got it accepted, made a crt and it got rejected.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Agreed with what Chariot said.

You agree with calculating the great roar and scaling the SoA out of that?

 

[Damage3245]

You agree with calculating the great roar and scaling the SoA out of that?

Well, the Sword of Actuation alone doesn't scale to the roar of the astral world. It was just one part of what brought that about.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Well, the Sword of Actuation alone doesn't scale to the roar of the astral world. It was just one part of what brought that about.

Well yeah you can divide it by two or whatever, you already rejected that so i dont know why you say you agree now.
And I still havent gotten an explanation on how the SoA doesnt scale to Ganishka anyway, other that saying the arg is bad.

 

[Damage3245]

Well yeah you can divide it by two or whatever, you already rejected that so i dont know why you say you agree now.
And I still havent gotten an explanation on how the SoA doesnt scale to Ganishka anyway, other that saying the arg is bad.

I meant moreso that I agree with what Chariot was saying about the issues of scaling the Sea God.

And I just haven't seen any convincing that says that the power that is unleashed by the Sword of Actuation is comparable to Ganishka after his transformation.

 

[ElJoaki5]

I meant moreso that I agree with what Chariot was saying about the issues of scaling the Sea God.

And I just haven't seen any convincing that says that the power that is unleashed by the Sword of Actuation is comparable to Ganishka after his transformation.

I never ever argued that. I guess that I should have made the title "Skull Knight scaling to Shiva Ganishka in AP with the Abyss" instead.

• Skull Knight can make portals to the abyss and use it as a weapon as shown in chapter 221, when he unleashes it on a bunch of ogres. Therefore Skull Knight scales to the Abyss, in the same way he scales to the sword of actuation.
• Shiva Ganishka draws his power from said abyss.

Skull Knight > Ganishka

 

[Damage3245]

Skull Knight can make portals to the abyss and use it as a weapon as shown in chapter 221, when he unleashes it on a bunch of ogres. Therefore Skull Knight scales to the Abyss, in the same way he scales to the sword of actuation.

Using it as a weapon doesn't mean that Skull Knight personally scales to the Abyss. Why would it? A person firing a handgun doesn't scale to the AP of the bullet.