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Dark Tower: High 1-A Content Revision

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Those who do not participate are kindly requested to briefly explain their reason
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We dont have to actually but sure why not
The Deadlights are the darkness that exists beyond everything, the outer realms beyond all lands
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Now the mind of the writer's wife was with It, in It, beyond the end of the macroverse; in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; She was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights.

In your scaled model you are talking about an all-encompassing reality or a realm that transcends the plane and is completely independent/transcendent from it? Obviously this is an outright anti-feat because for High 1-A+ you need to include all extensions, this is not just High 1-A infinite or all possible layers, this is all existing qualitative transcendence



If you have qualitatively transcendence against meta-qualitative transcendence, this will be a higher High 1-A, you can multiply this as you like "so what's the point? If you ask ‘what's the point?’, High 1-A+ should essentially contain ‘all extensions’, so if you don't have even 1 of them, it will just add more layers to the existing High 1-A baseline, or whatever the given rating is.
 
Shiedaisthepeak said:
If you have qualitatively transcendence against meta-qualitative transcendence, this will be a higher High 1-A, you can multiply this as you like "so what's the point? If you ask ‘what's the point?’, High 1-A+ should essentially contain ‘all extensions’, so if you don't have even 1 of them, it will just add more layers to the existing High 1-A baseline, or whatever the given rating is.
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I believe we touched upon things like this on the cosmology page.
Macroverse is another name for Todash Darkness. The reason this is the case is because Todash Darkness is a huge void, as well as the name given to a single whole of these deep darknesses, due to the fact that there are many dark rooms in it.
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The Deadlights are the darkness that exists beyond everything, the outer realms beyond all lands, and even inside the Macroverse is an extremely dangerous region with an infinity of much deeper darkness.
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As you can see, the place referred to as Todash Darkness is the name given to the entirety of this vast void, whereas Macroverse, as implied by the definition of "macro," refers to the totality of the rooms (or voids, as they are similarly called) I mentioned. In other words, there are multiple voids within Todash. However, there is no hierarchical order or qualitative superiority among these voids. They are simply referred to as voids, but I believe this term is used to denote the positions of the three cosmic entities within the Macroverse—because these entities are inseparable from the voids they inhabit. In short, we can easily say that the structure referred to as Todash encompasses the entirety of the Macroverse.

Additionally, the pages containing the quotes you mentioned include the following text:
Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to hrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place (what that old Turtle called the macroverse) where It really lived; where It existed as a titanic, glowing core which might be no more than the smallest mote in that Other's mind
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The Turtle's voice was fading away. It had already plunged into an emptiness darker than the pitch-black darkness of the past. The voice of the Thing that hurled him into the black void was drowning out the Turtle's ramblings. The voice of the Spider, His voice.
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As you can see, it is mentioned here that the Deadlights, where Pennywise truly resides, are still within the Macroverse. It’s worth repeating: Macroverse, as implied by the definition of "Macro," is the name given to the entirety of a place that contains multiple voids. Therefore, it can be inferred that the Deadlights still exist within the Macroverse, but are beyond the dark void where Maturin resides. The term “beyond” does not imply any qualitative or quantitative superiority. If you’ve read the novel, you may recall that the Losers' Club physically traveled to the area called the Deadlights.
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
I believe we touched upon things like this on the cosmology page.


As you can see, the place referred to as Todash Darkness is the name given to the entirety of this vast void, whereas Macroverse, as implied by the definition of "macro," refers to the totality of the rooms (or voids, as they are similarly called) I mentioned. In other words, there are multiple voids within Todash. However, there is no hierarchical order or qualitative superiority among these voids. They are simply referred to as voids, but I believe this term is used to denote the positions of the three cosmic entities within the Macroverse—because these entities are inseparable from the voids they inhabit. In short, we can easily say that the structure referred to as Todash encompasses the entirety of the Macroverse.

Additionally, the pages containing the quotes you mentioned include the following text:


As you can see, it is mentioned here that the Deadlights, where Pennywise truly resides, are still within the Macroverse. It’s worth repeating: Macroverse, as implied by the definition of "Macro," is the name given to the entirety of a place that contains multiple voids. Therefore, it can be inferred that the Deadlights still exist within the Macroverse, but are beyond the dark void where Maturin resides. The term “beyond” does not imply any qualitative or quantitative superiority. If you’ve read the novel, you may recall that the Losers' Club physically traveled to the area called the Deadlights.
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Its almost like none of that explains High 1-A+ which he is contesting.
 
Well, Ultima told me in private that he will take a look here soon. 🙏
 
Sir, you can tag staff members so they can help in this thread.
The number of disagreements and agreements should be determined
 
I already have pinged them previously, but right now we are waiting for Ultima. 🙏
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
If you’ve read the novel, you may recall that the Losers' Club physically trave
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Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
led to the area called the Deadlights.
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I'd like to say that I didn't read the novel in that much detail but anyway

There is no clear evidence that it covers Deadlights, and if there is, I would like you to show it, but to be honest, this is a clear wank, a High 1-A+ (Type 2) structure should cover literally ‘everything’, and what you say contradicts each other because the statement I have already shown already puts Deadlights on top of the Macroverse
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Its almost like none of that explains High 1-A+ which he is contesting.
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To be honest, he doesn't seem to have understood any of the points I wanted to emphasise, the basis of an existing transcendence is not important here, it is the fact that the existing world of possibilities is the larger structures that encompass it and encompass the structure that encompasses it, they are not exactly equal to each other, the hierarchical order between them does not need to be a qualitative or quantitative transcendence, things like size or distance can be considered anti-feat.
 
Shiedaisthepeak said:
I'd like to say that I didn't read the novel in that much detail but anyway

There is no clear evidence that it covers Deadlights, and if there is, I would like you to show it, but to be honest, this is a clear wank, a High 1-A+ (Type 2) structure should cover literally ‘everything’, and what you say contradicts each other because the statement I have already shown already puts Deadlights on top of the Macroverse
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Are you kidding me? Or are you arbitrarily assigning a tier without even reading the content revision? When looking at the current state of the content revision, I never stated that Pennywise is High 1-A+ Type 2. I only specified that he is High 1-A+ Type 1. Did you actually read the content revision?

Now, let me respond to your questions or counterarguments:

Yes, the region known as the Deadlights is Pennywise. Read these passages carefully, because if you interpreted it as Type 2 despite me explicitly labeling it as Type 1, then there's clearly a problem with your reading.

You asked whether Pennywise encompasses this region; the infinite realm known as the Deadlights is described as his mind.
in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; She was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights.
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Similarly, it is stated by Maturin that Pennywise has his own place in the Macroverse and that his energy is infinite.
My brother- -has his own place in the macroverse; energy is eternal, as a child such as yourself must understand.
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This definition is emphasized multiple times; Pennywise refers to the Deadlights as “My Eternity.”
This is no illusion, you foolish little boy - this is eternity, My eternity, and you are lost in it, lost forever, never to find your way back; you are eternal now, and condemned to wander in the black...
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Now, we've arrived at the most crucial point: Is the Deadlights beyond the Macroverse, or within it?

It is explicitly stated in two passages that the Deadlights exist within the Macroverse:
My brother- -has his own place in the macroverse; energy is eternal, as a child such as yourself must understand.
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As you can see here, Maturin clearly states that Pennywise has his own place within the Macroverse.
Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to hrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place (what that old Turtle called the macroverse) where It really lived; where It existed as a titanic, glowing core which might be no more than the smallest mote in that Other's mind
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And again, it is affirmed here that the Deadlights exist within the Macroverse.

As for the allegedly contradictory point you've brought up:
Now the mind of the writer's wife was with It, in It, beyond the end of the macroverse; in the darkness beyond the Turtle; in the outlands beyond all lands. She was in Its eye; She was in Its mind. She was in the deadlights.
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The phrase "beyond the Macroverse" mentioned here refers, as I previously explained, to the three regions existing within Todash. One of these is Maturin’s domain, and another is the region of the Deadlights. So, the term “beyond” in this context refers to a place that lies beyond Maturin’s region, yet still exists within the Macroverse. And as already confirmed in two passages, the Deadlights exist within the Macroverse.
The Turtle's voice was fading away. It had already plunged into an emptiness darker than the pitch-black darkness of the past. The voice of the Thing that hurled him into the black void was drowning out the Turtle's ramblings. The voice of the Spider, His voice.
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Here, a member of the Losers' Club—either Bill or Richie, I can't recall exactly—is physically moving toward the Deadlights, and as you can see, it is described merely as a deeper darkness. However, there is no mention of any qualitative or quantitative transcendence taking place. As I’ve said before, the term “beyond” should not be used to imply transcendence or ordinary superiority unless an ontological distinction is explicitly stated.
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
Are you kidding me?
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I'm the one who should be asking that question.

I have a crt that I have to deal with and I have to work on it but seriously, the fact that you think that I cited PENNYWISE (not even use a word) as a reason and you don't understand it even though I explained it twice is either due to your stubbornness or you have a serious problem.
 
Shiedaisthepeak said:
I'm the one who should be asking that question.

I have a crt that I have to deal with and I have to work on it but seriously, the fact that you think that I cited PENNYWISE (not even use a word) as a reason and you don't understand it even though I explained it twice is either due to your stubbornness or you have a serious problem.
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No, I explained everything that was necessary. Instead of presenting an argument, you preferred to say, "You don’t understand, so the problem is with you." This is funny.
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
Instead of presenting an argument
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Do i need the present argument for this shit?Really...

You want me to make a collective evaluation by taking everything you said (which I did, and yet you still deny it, which is ridiculous)

FIRSTLY, the High 1-A+ rating of the existing tiering system achieves everything, this is everything, I have explained this to you about 3 times and you still tell me ‘aghh but there is no quantitative and qualitative transcendence!!! 🤓’ I guess you really don't understand? The transcendence of the Deadlights is not an issue here, I am arguing that this is a world that does not exist as a result of possible worlds, and you are so disrespectful and stubborn that you do not understand this and mock me

SECONDLY there is no evidence that the Deadlights are still in the Macroverse in any of the worlds you have posted. There is nothing in the evidence that would clearly keep him in the Macroverse, almost every piece of evidence you posted mentions ‘the realm beyond’ or ‘the outer realm’ and the interpretation you say is not even compatible with the evidence

THIRDLY do you know how I can explain in a good way that you don't understand? Type Pennywise into the word search on your phone or computer and see if it is in one of the comments I wrote, if it is, then I will accept it, but even if it is not, "You asked whether Pennywise encompasses this region; the infinite realm known as the Deadlights is described as his mind.'' Seriously? It's funny that you are presenting this as an argument to me even though I didn't ask

Now I will explain it in a simpler way, I want you to prove that the Macroverse contains the whole cosmos because a HIgh 1-A+ structure has to cover everything, almost everything, and if you can't show a feat that can do this, and none of the feats or evidence you have shown fits this definition, I will NOT accept it, I hope it is understood

For you to understand better, possible worlds have to include all possibilities such as P1,P2,P3 and if there is not even one of them, this world of possibilities does not fully exist because ‘all possibilities’ is a far superior concept beyond even the concept of infinity..
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Ladies, let’s not use vulgar language. Just represent arguments without the need of profanity or anything of the sort.
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I do my best, but the person is not very open about it because he has ‘personal’ problems with me.

and again I need to add I'm leaving this crt here because I'm dealing with a massive verse update good luck to you
 
Type Pennywise into the word search on your phone or computer and see if it is in one of the comments I wrote, if it is, then I will accept it, but even if it is not, "You asked whether Pennywise encompasses this region; the infinite realm known as the Deadlights is described as his mind. Seriously? It's funny that you are presenting this as an argument to me even though I didn't ask
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You don't need to directly mention Pennywise because here you asked me to prove that it covers Deadlights. The only entity that covers Deadlights is Pennywise. Who else could you possibly be referring to here?
Shiedaisthepeak said:
SECONDLY there is no evidence that the Deadlights are still in the Macroverse in any of the worlds you have posted. There is nothing in the evidence that would clearly keep him in the Macroverse, almost every piece of evidence you posted mentions ‘the realm beyond’ or ‘the outer realm’ and the interpretation you say is not even compatible with the evidence
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Are you serious? It is clearly and directly stated that the Deadlights are in the Macroverse. Are you not reading these?
My brother- -has his own place in the macroverse
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Suddenly he thought he understood: It meant to hrust him through some wall at the end of the universe and into some other place (what that old Turtle called the macroverse) where It really lived; where It existed as a titanic, glowing core which might be no more than the smallest mote in that Other's mind
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The "bright core" mentioned in this sentence is the Deadlights themselves. And as it is clearly stated, they are still within the boundaries of Todash.

Shiedaisthepeak said:
Now I will explain it in a simpler way, I want you to prove that the Macroverse contains the whole cosmos because a HIgh 1-A+ structure has to cover everything, almost everything, and if you can't show a feat that can do this, and none of the feats or evidence you have shown fits this definition, I will NOT accept it, I hope it is understood.
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I already did this on the cosmology page, you need to read that. The Prim Sea is an archetypal structure, the source of everything, while the Prim Sea is a droplet encompassed by Todash Darkness. Right now, the only thing you need to do for an anti-feat is to provide any anti-feat that either surpasses the Macroverse in a proven way or something similar, even if it doesn't surpass it. However, I have proven that the Deadlights are still within the Macroverse, and you have not presented any other cosmological structure beyond the Macroverse that you claim exists.
 
Shiedaisthepeak said:
I do my best, but the person is not very open about it because he has ‘personal’ problems with me.

and again I need to add I'm leaving this crt here because I'm dealing with a massive verse update good luck to you
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No, I’m not personalizing this topic, I’m just responding to the argument you presented in the proper way. If I had personalized the issue, I wouldn’t even respond to you because your concern isn’t the accuracy of this content revision, but rather you’re attacking the revision because there’s an issue between us. At least that’s what I think. And you’re free to respond to my last argument or not, right now we’re just waiting for Ultima.
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
your concern isn’t the accuracy of this content revision, but rather you’re attacking the revision because there’s an issue between us. At least that’s what I think. And you’re free to respond to my last argument or not, right now we’re just waiting for Ultima.
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nah i dont take this offer cause of the reasoning but i decide to read the Books so for now neutral (leaning on disagree)
 
Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
I already did this on the cosmology page, you need to read that. The Prim Sea is an archetypal structure, the source of everything, while the Prim Sea is a droplet encompassed by Todash Darkness. Right now, the only thing you need to do for an anti-feat is to provide any anti-feat that either surpasses the Macroverse in a proven way or something similar, even if it doesn't surpass it. However, I have proven that the Deadlights are still within the Macroverse, and you have not presented any other cosmological structure beyond the Macroverse that you claim exists.
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The proof is not in the pudding with this one. So there's no need to disprove anything but the wrong usage of the tier which dismantles everything.
 
Antvasima said:
@Udlmaster @VeryGoofyToddler2

What do you think that we should do here? 🙏
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I've consulted with a certain former Admin who used to handle DT in the past and she (she goes by she/her now) seemed to have a similar conclusion about the size of the verse.

I can't tell right now if there's anything snuck into the blog to inflate the tiers but based on what the scans themselves say, they seem to align.
 
Okay. So what tiers do you think seem reasonable here? 🙏
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
1-A+ for the Tower. High 1-A for everything outside it.
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Okay. If Qawsedf234 also had that interpretation, it seems fine for me as well.

Has Ultima responded here yet, and if so, what did he think? 🙏
 
Okay. I will remind him again. 🙏
 
Which staff members think what here so far? 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
What do you think that we should do here? 🙏
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VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
1-A+ for the Tower. High 1-A for everything outside it.
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Udlmaster said:
I think the tiers provided by Qa are good

I can see either High 1-A + (plus in the sense of more) and also the tier High 1-A+
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VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
He disagreed with High 1-A+ entirely.
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Antvasima said:
Okay. If Qawsedf234 also had that interpretation, it seems fine for me as well.
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Antvasima said:
Which staff members think what here so far? 🙏
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Jason_Voorhees1986 said:
If I remember correctly, Qawsedf234 thinks that High 1-A makes sense for the content revision. DarkDragonMedeus said he would wait for Ultima. Firestorm808 is also unsure about this matter.
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@DarkDragonMedeus @Firestorm808 @Ultima_Reality

These seem to be the conclusions here so far. 🙏
 
Well, Qawsedf234 seems to disagree with it, and I trust his sense of judgement regarding high tiers. 🙏
 
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