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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
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Nah, I'm just lazy.
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Real and true
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Wasn’t there one supporter who always took care of adding new characters to the verse page?
At some point, I’m probably gonna make a CRT to make that a general Fake Karakura Town Arc key so her non-armored stats can be indexed.
ReaperAndBlues
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I hope that in Cour 4 we see Askin scaling to Kisuke's physicals or Kido because I want that sweet sweet 4-A God of Thunder Yoruichi
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It'll be as easy as "At least [prior key stats], [armor stats]" so should be an easy fix
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Nah, Ayon is just THE GOAT
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Not going to happen(Askin scaling to Kisuke,that is).
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What about an absolutely totally plausible statement like "I'm stronger than when I fought Aizen" or "That form is even superior to the armor I made for her"? Not cope trust
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"you sure about that" ~ Cena
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Honestly Kisuke not personally attacking Askin at all before gift ball deluxe is what i think is gonna happen,just like in the manga.
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Soul Society destruction
Again I'm saying zaraki potentially has the dormant power far above yamamoto even in tybw. Just couldn’t use it. So his tybw version still loses.
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Why does Yamamoto having an overtime SS destruction statement make him inherently stronger than TYBW Zaraki?
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I think the big problem using that statement to put Yamamoto over Post Training Zaraki (and others) is that the statement was made by Unohana before Yamamoto died and everyone got their big TYBW powerups, and she's ******* dead so it's not like she can make that kind of comparison anymore. She didn't show Yamamoto when she talked about people Kenpachi could fight with because he's also ******* dead.
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Mhmm, I'm of the mind that there's no strong scaling connection between Zaraki and Yama. You can argue that Unohana might think Zaraki is stronger given she thinks he could fight Yhwach to his heart's content, but you can argue Yhwach and Yama are pretty evenly matched too. So, in all likelihood, they're probably relative (Yama and Zaraki), which is narratively consistent with Zaraki's training being done in order to fill the power void left by Yama's death.
TLDR; I think Yama and Zaraki are relative
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Even if the feat gets accepted as 3-A or something like that (wank), it would just upscale the rest, not make him unique.
MichaelCalistro
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Hello everyone, pardon me for asking this question for research purposes, but how big is a composite Bleach cosmology if we don't take crossovers into consideration? Is it Multiverse level+ in size or is it Low Complex Multiverse level in size?
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Composite in what way? Canon, non-canon, or all mediums?
MichaelCalistro
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All mediums included.
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Jump Force is like High 1-B or sumn, Bleach is in that
MichaelCalistro
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Jesus, I literally said no crossovers previously man, I do apologize if I wasn't clear.
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Maybe complex due to hell having many layers being universe's on their own + garganta encompassing all of it.
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Multi+ to Low Complex. You could argue 6D for 6 anni Aizen, I guess. There were some 1-A discussions regarding the Wanki rebirth of souls stuff, but I haven't played, so I'm not sure.
The difference between Multi+ and Low Complex is just how certain things or statements are interpreted. Either can be valid depending on how you look at it.
6 anni Aizen could potentially scale 1D higher than the rest of the cosmology, no matter how big it is, but that depends on interpretation. Just not 1-A unless you somehow scale the rest of the cosmology there too.
MichaelCalistro
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Dear God, who would have thought that Bleach which took inspiration from Saint Seiya would have the same composite cosmology size as them?
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Nah, the layers are 3D universes, not spacetimes. So Hellverse is just one big ass spacetime, not multiple. We (I mean people in general) talked about it in the BBS thread
MichaelCalistro
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1-A Bleach....
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The Garganta as a timeline, meaning temporally and not spatially, can be considered 1-D above the rest of the verse. So, the highest you can go without 1-A wanki stuff is 7-D for specific characters, and 6-D for the cosmology itself.
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Shouldn’t pre timeskip Hollow mask Ichigo get a possibly 4A for harming an off guard Aizen?
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Hasty12345
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Why are you filling this poor souls brain with such egregious wank?
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I decided to go ahead and do it.
Bleach: Stats for a Naked Cat (Yoruichi Key Rework)
This should be very simple, Yoruichi’s Anti-Hierro Armor key should be reworked to a Late Arrancar Arc key so it can index her stats without the armor. As far as I’m aware, Yoruichi doesn’t have any notable feats without the armor in this arc, so her armorless stats would just upscale from her...
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Those statements about the TYBW only apply to the 1st Invasion, not anything that happened after his death as far as I’m aware.
Zaraki and Toshiro scaling to god size and Vollstandig Gerard actually helps their case a lot. Aside from Gerard getting an Auschwalen amp, him stating that GS is the largest/strongest he’s ever been makes it so that he’s outside of the ‘not strong enough to handle Yama’s Bankai’ category by default and some discussion can be had, and then scaling to/above GS and VS shoots them even higher up within that scaling chain
Ik speed revisions aren’t fully gonna be updated in profiles til the end of Cour 4, but it could easily be argued that in verse wise, Kenny and Shiro scaling to or above Gerard’s speed is far more impressive than Yama directly scaling to Royd’s speed
Yama’s best attributes when it comes to this tier of everyone scaling off Gremmy are his offensive hax. East, West, and North make up for his potential lack of speed or conventional AP if you think the 2 scaling above different forms of Gerard is way better physical and AP scaling than Yama’s upscaling.
Which doubles back to ability interaction. Could Kenny’s in character meathead style of fighting let him rush headfirst into East or West and die, or will his crazy battle instincts and respect for Yama’s power give him a more cautious approach like with Tosen? Yachiru’s battle instincts against the Vanishing Point could be an attribute for him as well. Is spatial cutting something that would come into play and get through East and West?
Adult Toshiro seems to produce cold and ice directly from his body now rather than just manipulating the water molecules in the atmosphere, which gets around how Yama negged his immature Bankai. Can Toshiro’s ice that freezes both fire and raw spiritual energy counter Yama’s raw spiritual energy which takes the form of fire? If they clash blades, would Yama’s sword get flash frozen and power nulled, or would Toshiro’s blade get vaporized?
Discussions like that are what I think would be interesting
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I have told before I am not expert in overtime feat calc. But considering his statements, and what we have seen till now, a bankai can't be left activated for that long. So it's still not a big time frame. But my gues tells me it will be way abive gremmy's feat.
And as for zaraki's statement, he could fight to heart's content means he can engage yhwach in lengthy battle and far from being able to one shot. This makes him somewhat relative but not equal. It's just enemies who won't die even if zaraki went all out.
Yeah, yamamoto doesn’t have much scaling correlation with zaraki.
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Get your things straight man. The statements I'm talking about has nothing to do with them being alive, dead whatsoever.
You simply have no solid way to calc any from rest of captains above Yamamoto's Soul Society destruction even with all their amps. Even a handful of captains would scale around gremmy's feat. All you can do for them is upscaling from Gremmy's which I doubt would reach that value.
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Just going by feats is very flawed in Bleach. What if Gremmy’s space was shown to contain galaxies? Would that automatically make him superior to Yamamoto? By that logic, Yamamoto would also be more impressive than Ichigo’s Bankai, which clearly isn’t the case.
You have to go by scaling, so let’s analyze the scaling properly.
Shikai Yamamoto is comparable to a Fake Yhwach, but Unohana—after being defeated by Base Zaraki with no Zanpakutō, stated that a base Zaraki could surpass even that Yhwach. This implies a level of relativity, that actually favors Base Zaraki.
And that’s without using Shikai! So a No-Eyepatch Zaraki with Shikai would absolutely destroy Fake Yhwach very bad, something Shikai Yamamoto couldn’t do at all, and even needed his Bankai to attempt to win.
Let’s focus on the scaling, not just raw feats.
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They...literally do have something to do with them being alive/dead. The other captains and whatnot didn't get this big statement because at the time, they were weaker. No one is scaling first invasion Kenpachi to Yamamoto. And the only person making that statement is dead, so they're not going to make it in cour 2, or 3, or 4.
When Unohana made her statement for Kenpachi, it showed Yhwach who is already considered relative to Yamamoto. In addition, Yamamoto wasn't shown because he's not alive, there would be no reason. Yamamoto himself gets his values from Gremmy, so....
Imo I agree with Arc's scaling. TYBW Bankai Kenpachi is stronger in terms of pure power compared to Bankai Yamamoto, but with his body's inexperience with his power, it's unlikely he would win in a direct fight. Shikai Kenpachi's AP is probably relatively close to Bankai Yamamoto, but only in power. He'd probably get cooked. And if he has his eyepatch on, he'd definitely lose. Basically, in a fight, Bankai Yamamoto>Bankai Kenpachi>Shikai Kenpachi. In terms of pure force, Bankai Kenpachi>Bankai Yamamoto>Shikai Kenpachi.
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You couldn’t adress the issue properly again.
I am telling you to get a valid way to scale them above soul society destruction. It doesn’t matter how much stronger they get. You need a proper way to scale when you can't put multiplier without specifications.
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???? What is this even supposed to mean? I'm stating Yamamoto's destruction of the Soul Society is considered lesser compared to Gremmy. Especially without any time frame for Yamamoto's feat, and the fact that his entire fight had no adverse effects on the Soul Society means it can't be that fast.
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