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Introduction
Following the conclusion of this thread, this new thread here will serve to discuss primarily whether or not base Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto scale. Since, if either of those two scale there are a handful of other characters that will end up scaling based on already accepted scaling on the profiles. As such, please do not derail this thread by discussing scaling that isn't directly related to how Gremmy scales to Yhwach, Yamamoto, and Zaraki.
Here's the proposed scaling web, the bolded box outlines indicate the topic of the discussion, but use this web as a visual guide.
Zanka No Tachi Argument
Yhwach states that no one other than himself is capable of handling Yamamoto's Bankai because it's so strong in episode 6. This would logically include the likes of Gremmy given Yhwach has access to any and all of his Quincy through the Schattenbereich shadows, and this is supported by it being stated that Gremmy was stronger than anyone except Yhwach in CFYOW chapter 14. And given that you need to possess spiritual pressure capable of withstanding a Bankai's spiritual pressure, if you are weaker/cannot possess a relative power to Zanka no Tachi, you won't be able handle that Bankai. Therefore, Zanka no Tachi would be more powerful than Gremmy and his The Visionary based on Yhwach's statement.
This would inherently encompass Gremmy w/ 7 clones as well. Yhwach is aware of Gremmy's power with The Visionary, given that 1) he bestowed that schrift to Gremmy, and 2) he created a barrier that could seal the entirety of The Visionary. Something only possible if Yhwach has a grasp on the extent of The Visionary. This is further believable with how much time Yhwach spends in understanding abilities in general, as seen with the daten. Additionally, Yhwach explicitly had Royd power up before entering the battle (copying Yhwach gave Royd 70-80% of Yhwach's power); so it is logically consistent for Yhwach to be talking about the peak power of his Quincy.
TLDR; Gremmy's peak capabilities with The Visionary < Blut enhanced Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto.
Minutiae of Zaraki's Scaling
Either way we cut this pie, Zaraki will scale to Gremmy's peak AP, it's a matter of should eyepatch Shikai Kenpachi scale. I'm of the mind at the moment that the answer is yes. There's 0 distinguishments between "how much" Gremmy is used to create outer space vs the explosion. In both instances 8 total Gremmy are present, while only 7 are ever seen performing the feat. Aka there's always a Gremmy off screen, while 7 Gremmy create outer space and while 7 Gremmy suicide explode. However, we do see that utilizing the explosion is what causes Gremmy to start panting in fatigue. Not to say the explosion was the sole cause of the fatigue, there is certainly an accumulation of fatigue across the fight, but it is worth noting as support for the notion that the explosion was a highly powered technique. And given the technique was performed by the same amount of Gremmy that made outer space, it is very likely that the technique scales to his outer space technique.
Now, this is important because eyepatch Shikai Zaraki explicitly scales to this attack via tanking it (tanking does not mean no sell lol, I'm well aware it did massive damage to Zaraki, my point is an indication of relativity). More importantly, it's Zaraki tanking this attack that spirals Gremmy into shifting his strategy to that of imagining a power to outstrip this current Zaraki. What this logically entails is that Gremmy believes he needs power beyond his previous feats in order to defeat this Zaraki, which would imply that the eyepatch Shikai Zaraki is on the level of his previous imaginative power. Which is to say eyepatch Shikai Zaraki scales, and it seems many people agreed with this notion in the previous thread as well.
TLDR; Gremmy's peak capabilities with The Visionary ~ eyepatch Shikai Zaraki
Minor Ichigo thing
You'll notice that FB Bankai Ichigo has scaling to the 1.266 ExaFoe value while enraged but fatigued FB Bankai Ichigo has scaling to the 1.688 ExaFoe value. I'm recommending that we just scale FB Bankai Ichigo to the 1.688 ExaFoe value given that while empowered by his rage, he was running on 0 energy, that is to say his amps and nerfs balance each other out. His 1.266 ExaFoe scaling also comes from being stronger than Quilge, so it's more that he's above 1.266 ExaFoe anyway. And frankly I don't feel like making FB Zanpakuto Ichigo's tiering section hideous, by splitting into 1.266 ExaFoe, 1.688 ExaFoe when enraged...
TLDR; FB Bankai Ichigo ~ enraged but fatigued FB Bankai Ichigo
Conclusion
So there you have it, the arguments for the people with direct scaling to Gremmy's outer space creation. Blut enhanced Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto blatantly outscale Gremmy's peak power, and eyepatch Shikai Zaraki should scale to Gremmy's peak power. Please keep the conversation and discourse civil. Reminder that anything in the scaling web that isn't in a bolded box is already accepted and not part of the pervue of this thread, so please no derailing.
God bless.
Agree: The Cabal (Slayer, KT, Tracer, Lephyr, Reiner, Nierre)
Neutral:
Disagree:
Following the conclusion of this thread, this new thread here will serve to discuss primarily whether or not base Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto scale. Since, if either of those two scale there are a handful of other characters that will end up scaling based on already accepted scaling on the profiles. As such, please do not derail this thread by discussing scaling that isn't directly related to how Gremmy scales to Yhwach, Yamamoto, and Zaraki.
Here's the proposed scaling web, the bolded box outlines indicate the topic of the discussion, but use this web as a visual guide.
Zanka No Tachi Argument
Yhwach states that no one other than himself is capable of handling Yamamoto's Bankai because it's so strong in episode 6. This would logically include the likes of Gremmy given Yhwach has access to any and all of his Quincy through the Schattenbereich shadows, and this is supported by it being stated that Gremmy was stronger than anyone except Yhwach in CFYOW chapter 14. And given that you need to possess spiritual pressure capable of withstanding a Bankai's spiritual pressure, if you are weaker/cannot possess a relative power to Zanka no Tachi, you won't be able handle that Bankai. Therefore, Zanka no Tachi would be more powerful than Gremmy and his The Visionary based on Yhwach's statement.
This would inherently encompass Gremmy w/ 7 clones as well. Yhwach is aware of Gremmy's power with The Visionary, given that 1) he bestowed that schrift to Gremmy, and 2) he created a barrier that could seal the entirety of The Visionary. Something only possible if Yhwach has a grasp on the extent of The Visionary. This is further believable with how much time Yhwach spends in understanding abilities in general, as seen with the daten. Additionally, Yhwach explicitly had Royd power up before entering the battle (copying Yhwach gave Royd 70-80% of Yhwach's power); so it is logically consistent for Yhwach to be talking about the peak power of his Quincy.
TLDR; Gremmy's peak capabilities with The Visionary < Blut enhanced Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto.
Minutiae of Zaraki's Scaling
Either way we cut this pie, Zaraki will scale to Gremmy's peak AP, it's a matter of should eyepatch Shikai Kenpachi scale. I'm of the mind at the moment that the answer is yes. There's 0 distinguishments between "how much" Gremmy is used to create outer space vs the explosion. In both instances 8 total Gremmy are present, while only 7 are ever seen performing the feat. Aka there's always a Gremmy off screen, while 7 Gremmy create outer space and while 7 Gremmy suicide explode. However, we do see that utilizing the explosion is what causes Gremmy to start panting in fatigue. Not to say the explosion was the sole cause of the fatigue, there is certainly an accumulation of fatigue across the fight, but it is worth noting as support for the notion that the explosion was a highly powered technique. And given the technique was performed by the same amount of Gremmy that made outer space, it is very likely that the technique scales to his outer space technique.
Now, this is important because eyepatch Shikai Zaraki explicitly scales to this attack via tanking it (tanking does not mean no sell lol, I'm well aware it did massive damage to Zaraki, my point is an indication of relativity). More importantly, it's Zaraki tanking this attack that spirals Gremmy into shifting his strategy to that of imagining a power to outstrip this current Zaraki. What this logically entails is that Gremmy believes he needs power beyond his previous feats in order to defeat this Zaraki, which would imply that the eyepatch Shikai Zaraki is on the level of his previous imaginative power. Which is to say eyepatch Shikai Zaraki scales, and it seems many people agreed with this notion in the previous thread as well.
TLDR; Gremmy's peak capabilities with The Visionary ~ eyepatch Shikai Zaraki
Minor Ichigo thing
You'll notice that FB Bankai Ichigo has scaling to the 1.266 ExaFoe value while enraged but fatigued FB Bankai Ichigo has scaling to the 1.688 ExaFoe value. I'm recommending that we just scale FB Bankai Ichigo to the 1.688 ExaFoe value given that while empowered by his rage, he was running on 0 energy, that is to say his amps and nerfs balance each other out. His 1.266 ExaFoe scaling also comes from being stronger than Quilge, so it's more that he's above 1.266 ExaFoe anyway. And frankly I don't feel like making FB Zanpakuto Ichigo's tiering section hideous, by splitting into 1.266 ExaFoe, 1.688 ExaFoe when enraged...
TLDR; FB Bankai Ichigo ~ enraged but fatigued FB Bankai Ichigo
Conclusion
So there you have it, the arguments for the people with direct scaling to Gremmy's outer space creation. Blut enhanced Yhwach and Bankai Yamamoto blatantly outscale Gremmy's peak power, and eyepatch Shikai Zaraki should scale to Gremmy's peak power. Please keep the conversation and discourse civil. Reminder that anything in the scaling web that isn't in a bolded box is already accepted and not part of the pervue of this thread, so please no derailing.
God bless.
Agree: The Cabal (Slayer, KT, Tracer, Lephyr, Reiner, Nierre)
Neutral:
Disagree:
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don’t talk about em
?
