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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

Alright I've applied changes and added a few more abilities from the feedback!
Why is their duplicate of the same abilities ? I also don’t believe we need a nihilty supply section, just say In the profile of each character that they can use it via nihility supply.

2 sections should do job for the page :

- 1st section; Nature (raw void collapse) :

Explain all charactersistics in a a single well formulated explanation : it’s true essence predate hell’s void, created the world, chaotic energy inside imaginary space, flow inexhaustible, erase information inside information particles, interfere with the transfer of info particles despite their speed, can kill twilight pseudo true dragon body, can kill Michael despite his parallel existence, can destroy the world if miss controlled (quickly formulated but the general idea are here)

- 2nd section; application/abilities of void collapse :

- imaginary blade (eat away and sent to imaginary space the consumed material, with virtually no way of defending)

- world of thousands blooming changes (slice the opponent to shreds and desintegrate him with thousands and thousands of slash)

- proeminence acceleration (dragon like projectile who forced milim to react despite the star barrier)

- nihilistic world (allow to manipulate it in a given area and perceive anything in it)

- void fist (transfer it inside the opponent through space time manipulation)

- making it ciculate through one body to boost all statistics

- Recreations of the world almost identical to before (with laws, space, time, soul, skill ect)

But again this can be put directly in their profile rather than in the page.

Also there is no immortality negation regarding nihility collapse, it just erase beyond what the character can come back from.
 
No, it doesn’t work like that.

For e exemple killing the soul of a character who possesses low godly level regen wouldn’t be low godly regeneration negation, since you just straight up overwhelm the effect of the immortality with greater damage thag it can withstand.

It would be soul manipulation.

Same principle goes for turn null it erases beyond what character are capable of comming back.

If even twilight cannot come back from void collapse,
SLF that cannot even survive a core break stand no chance.

As for death manipulation, again yeah it is the ability to induce death, but just killing someone with an ability is not death manipulation, that ability effect would literally have to be focus on the death effect rather than causing damage that lead to the death of the opponent.

Otherwise all abilities capable of killing would be death manipulation since it can kill, wich is absurd.

We don’t give death manipulation for magma because it burn a person to death.
So I think you misunderstood me, let me explain. Type 1 and 2 immortality are for age, illness, and some durability.
“Immortality negation would prevent the character's body from being able to regenerate or heal from wounds that would normally be able to be recovered from.” meaning if a person can regenerate even if their physical body is completely destroyed and disembodied consciousness is and turn null bypasses that, it should be saying it bypasses low godly regen. Even if it is part of another intrinsic ability of turn null it should still be mentioned that it bypasses characters with low godly regen or whatever regen they have for its feats.
I’m not that much sure about type 4, I might’ve forgot so I’ll check that later and tell, but if you agree turn null has it to some extent, fine, I won’t argue.
And type 8 it should have.

And death manipulation. Type 1, inducing physical death. Even weaker characters have this so let us not argue about this.
Death manipulation type 2: Conceptual/Informational.”Characters that can induce death by means of ending the manifested fundamental information of a given character.” Which as we know is possible for turn null.
I’ll skip type 3 for now I don’t have much info on how that works so type 1 and type 2 should be added.
 
They didn't understand me XD. I still want to hear other people's opinions.
High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, et cetera. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form and it must be shown that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well; in addition it must not be something that would ordinarily be restored by regenerating body, mind, or soul. As such, type 3 concepts must be evaluated with care and aspects which are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgement will not to qualify.”
As far as I know from the scan you provided I think this condition is not satisfied. Maybe you can provide more context and I can understand but for now it should still be mid godly regen.
 
guys so these are the temporary translations i made using JMDict for Tensura Volume 22. I just sent for the official translation so we need to wait on that for a while but i'm pretty sure my translations are around 85% accurate. So how would these scans affect rimuru's regen or how the void collapse functions. Rimuru's void collapse allows him control over void based abilities, and it is stated that void can erase information within information particles and even if they are across time, the information within them is interfered with. So that is void based abilities, and its powers are also shown based on the fact that other strong lifeforms can't even bear to use the power of void without rimuru's help. Void is purely uncontrollable, and people like zegion, or diablo can't even sustain using it without rimuru's omnipotent cells. I also added the japanese translations in the description just for proof. And no, this was not done by MTL. I have raw MTL translation also done and saved in another pdf which literally in one of the lines says information children, it's god awful.
There is a lot that these scans prove but i am busy at the moment so i'll get into those later. Can you help me with what this adds to Rimuru's arsenal or if it is already there in the scaling, then please just let me know.
Thank you.
 
Both WN and LN immeasurable speed gonna get remove
 
No? The blog can be revised (some points are bad) but in the end I don't intend to do so at the moment. LN has much better expressions and feats.
Agree, but I’m afraid that staff gonna coming in the thread and said “ Op seems fine”
 
Both WN and LN immeasurable speed gonna get remove
Wow. The entire thread is unreal, they didn't even take the counter arguments to account 💔, just spammed their points and got it removed
 
Well, there is much to see when staff simply don't care about the counters
That's exactly why, I have no intention of leaving it like this. I expected them to at least try to respond.

But for it to make sense to try again, I am thinking about how I can prevent some staff from being directed (willingly or not) by people they are close to. I guess, the best thing to do in this regard is to do some kind of preparation for other staff votes, like getting the opinions of many staff members before made a thread.

According to the rules, making a new CRT before 3 months would be a violation of the rules, even if I think the staff ignored many things, because it could be claimed that "staff were actually seeing but not responding".

So I have a much time for this.
 
According to the rules, making a new CRT before 3 months would be a violation of the rules,
This only if the arguments are the same of the previous. But considering that they didn't actually debunk anything it shouldn't be a problem. But anyway, take your time, no point in rushing things
 
But for it to make sense to try again, I am thinking about how I can prevent some staff from being directed (willingly or not) by people they are close to. I guess, the best thing to do in this regard is to do some kind of preparation for other staff votes, like getting the opinions of many staff members before made a thread.
You could make it a staff discussion? Restrict the number of people able to comment, less clutter, and more attention from staff.
 
You could make it a staff discussion? Restrict the number of people able to comment, less clutter, and more attention from staff.
This is how it should be done, considering that the notable opposition already will have no problem getting permission from staff to comment and will be able to explain their thoughts quite well.
 
I saw that get brought up so it's hard not to put a 1 + 1 on it that it was planned and intentional which...wouldn't that put the ENTIRE sites validity into question?
I mean i'll probably not get into that stuff. Code can handle the discussion with staff members about the speed part. I mean i get that it seems intentional, but what can we do about it. I guess i'll go back to checking LN 21 and 22 for more feats for speed and others for potential upgrades. I don't wanna get involved in discussion with staff members. Like i was saying the difference between timeless void and immeasurable speed, like the requirements, they replied to 2 of my posts and after my final like scan and description, they didn't even reply. I'll go see how accurate that speed scaling is about rimuru then i will check back with them i guess.
 
I saw that get brought up so it's hard not to put a 1 + 1 on it that it was planned and intentional which...wouldn't that put the ENTIRE sites validity into question?
Don't exaggerate, it has nothing to do with it. Astral's ban was caused by some mistakes he made.
 
Can you guys tell me how this works for rimuru in terms of speed.

So, let me explain the situation:

Rimuru and ciel are sent to the end of space and time by feldway when he multiplies time stop with time stop and bla bla bla the scan is below.


So now we know that rimuru was sent to a place beyond space and time. I will give more proof to support this. But, moving on, rimuru couldn't even perceive the expansion space in this place even with information particles.


Now rimuru is said to move in this place with no abilities and when rimuru basically gives a summary of what ciel says he says out, he tells that the end of space and time is beyond time. They also mention before this that time is suspended, time is stopped, and finally they say that this place is beyond time.


Ok now we got that. Since this place is beyond time, not just a time stop or 0 time but beyond time, we can infer that this space is beyond linear time and moving in this space qualifies for immeasurable speed.
"Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed." vsbw definition.

Now how is this not just a time void?
"Timeless Voids, i.e. areas within a setting that lack time or exist outside of the flow of time, cannot be used to grant Infinite speed. One might be tempted to apply Speed = Distance/Time and say that time equals 0 in this situation, thus moving through this type of void should result in Infinite speed. However, in a Timeless Void, time does not exist, making Time = Not Applicable." vsbw definition

In this definition we can understand that timless voids are place where time is non existent but not beyond time itself. For achieving immeasurable speed, one must travel in a place beyond linear time and usually that means transcendence of space and time to travel. Also immeasurable speed means you have to be able to travel to the beginning and end of time with sheer speed, which i will try to explain now.

now let us understand chloe. She can move in the suspended world meaning any and all time stops are ineffective against her. Even if there is a dimension where time stop is natural, she can move in that place which qualifies for infinite speed. But immeasurable i will probably not accept since this scan says that she probably can't go back from end of space and time.


Now finally to rimuru and how he escaped back to the past which possibly qualifies for immeasurable speed. Rimuru uses an ability named Spacetime leap, he uses this to go back to the past. But understand how this ability works as Mai uses this ability and is not very effective for her. The thing is you need transcendence over space and time to use this ability to maximum potential which i will get to later but rimuru has this so he can go back to the past.


Finally how the Spacetime leap works. Spacetime leap, essentially it creates a sort of wormhole known as the spacetime distortion path. Which we can compare this to wormholes that appear when flash time travels in the series or something like that. But since it is clearly mentioned that you have to have a level of space time transcendence to be able to use this ability to go to any distance at any time. otherwise this is just a worse version of teleportation of sorts.

It creates a spacetime distortion path in which rimuru has to travel through, note that he is actively moving in this space and not like just sitting or something. And this is somewhat an interdimensional travel since rimuru says something bumped off of him and he thought it was some trash in the subspace. From all of the statements before, we can say that only the creation of the spacetime distortion path is part of the ability of the spacetime leap and the movement and how effective the ability is, is based on your mastery and transcendence over time and space. Rimuru also compares traveling through the path as a novice driver experience.
https://imgur.com/LB8ReSS

Now what does all of this say?
Rimuru can create a wormhole with his ability, but he travels through the wormhole with only his speed and his speed and transcendence over time are the only things that allow his to go from the end of time and space to any time and space he wants. Therefore this can be calculated as a speed feat and not hax, otherwise even mai or chloe would have been able to go bac from the end of time and space.
Therefore the other characters should have infinite speed or above and rimuru should have immeasurable speed.

This is the conclusion is stepped into, so please tell me if this description works or no. Thanks for reading.
Thank you.
 
@CodeCCLL can you see the scaling of rimuru's speed i said above. I think there are a few mishaps that you can correct but i think what i said could work in theory.
Thank you.
 
@CodeCCLL can you see the scaling of rimuru's speed i said above. I think there are a few mishaps that you can correct but i think what i said could work in theory.
Thank you.
If what you consider to be immeasurable speed has anything to do with Rimuru coming back from the end of space-time, then unfortunately it has nothing to do with immeasurable speed.
 
If what you consider to be immeasurable speed has anything to do with Rimuru coming back from the end of space-time, then unfortunately it has nothing to do with immeasurable speed.
But based on the vsbw definition it follows more of an immeasurable speed category and not a time void or time stop category. it is not an ability, so no need to consider that, it is stated to be beyond time and space, rimuru is stated to be able to move in it, although rimuru uses the ability to get the spacetime distortion path, it is stated that mai also has the ability and it is a much weaker version, so it direactly correlates with a person's space and time transcendence, and when that person is travelling in the path, they can only move as fast as their transcendence. So i think i could possibly count as immeasurable.

I agree that abilities don't factor into speed, but just moving in a world beyond time, even if we take the lowest statement, it is not a place generated like the suspended world, but it is an actively existing place, and even the lowest statement is time stop/ time is suspended meaning it is bare minimum infinite speed just moving in that place. Not even the spacetime leap counted.

So bare minimum infinite speed for that feat should be counted and immeasurable can be possible for that feat but it is a whole lot of theoretical nonsense that i said.
 
Currently ,we say skills and magic are authorities over the attributes ,for example the lord of time and space can manipulate time itself ,but there are other statements in the novel that says magic is based on the same laws as the voice of the world ,so are attributes part of the voice of the world
 
Currently ,we say skills and magic are authorities over the attributes ,for example the lord of time and space can manipulate time itself ,but there are other statements in the novel that says magic is based on the same laws as the voice of the world ,so are attributes part of the voice of the world
The Great Spirits, Laws of the World, and Attributes are all the same thing. The VOTW is like a system made of them.
 
infinite speed minimum because wandering means moving and moving means he covered a finite distance and covering finite distance in 0 time is inifinite speed. immeasurable speed is the ability to be able to go to the beginning of time and the end of time at will with sheer speed. The thing is, the spacetime leap is an ability, but in practical application, it clearly shows that using that ability allows the user to travel in a spacetime distortion path. So only the generation of the path is ability based, and the movement in the place is clearly movement and not an ability as already mentioned.

The ability description itself says that spacetime leap is the ability to transcend all of space and time and reach the destination. this can be any time, and any place. but it is an ability? the thing is it is weird. the ability spacetime leap directly correlates with the user's speed and spatial and temporal transcendence. That is the reason why mai couldn't use this effectively. Space and time transcendence is usually taken as hax, but this is not ability-based transcendence, but literal speed transcendence because rimuru is able to move in a place which is beyond time and the expansion of space has stopped.

This could allow for immeasurable or be debunked as ability based but still this feat alone is bare minimum infinite with possibility of immeasurable (which is completely theoretical).
@CodeCCLL i hope you agree with this conclusion. I will try to find proof what i said in Volume 22 possibly because the scans i gave are at the end of volume 21.

But based on the vsbw definition it follows more of an immeasurable speed category and not a time void or time stop category. it is not an ability, so no need to consider that, it is stated to be beyond time and space, rimuru is stated to be able to move in it, although rimuru uses the ability to get the spacetime distortion path, it is stated that mai also has the ability and it is a much weaker version, so it direactly correlates with a person's space and time transcendence, and when that person is travelling in the path, they can only move as fast as their transcendence. So i think i could possibly count as immeasurable.

I agree that abilities don't factor into speed, but just moving in a world beyond time, even if we take the lowest statement, it is not a place generated like the suspended world, but it is an actively existing place, and even the lowest statement is time stop/ time is suspended meaning it is bare minimum infinite speed just moving in that place. Not even the spacetime leap counted.

So bare minimum infinite speed for that feat should be counted and immeasurable can be possible for that feat but it is a whole lot of theoretical nonsense that i said.
 
So, we need to wait three months before making a thread to bring back immeasurable speed. But how can we debunk the anti-feats, such as certain digital lifeforms being unable to dodge Testarossa’s faster-than-light attacks, and other anti-feats that seem to limit DLFs to only speed levels like SOL or FTL

Honestly I’m agree with Immeasurable, but sometime fuse got me confus

(Sorry if I’m sound too slow Im new here and my English is crazy ) 🙏🏻
 
ok so i checked volume 22 key words in Japanese, but i couldn't find anything that actually related to rimuru's spacetime leap. I will drop that argument from now and focus more on the information particles and suspended world and why the speed is so annoyingly different everytime they are out of the suspended world.
 
So guys I need to understand something can you help me with that. Why don’t anyone use their information particles outside of suspended world. Like it is an entirely different speed when time is stopped and when time continues
 
There is also something else. When rimuru is at the end of space and time, he says Chloe likely can’t get back to the past.
"Go back to the past? You mean we can defeat Feldway now?"
“There is no way to do that, I thought. Chloe seemed to be able to 'Time Leap' to read her future memories, but that was just an ability to go back to her past self. Besides, it cannot be used while time is suspended. In this "end of time and space, no time is flowing, so even Chloe probably can't go back to the past.”

This shows that Chloe likely can’t go back from the end of time and space. And by the definition of immeasurable speed, a character has to be able to go to the beginning of time or end of time at will with just speed so Chloe can’t do this. The other digital lifeforms also likely can’t since their abilities in temporal transcendence are not beyond Chloe. So infinite speed max imo. But can this be countered. If it can then immeasurable speed is confirmed and can be used in an argument.
 
Why don’t anyone use their information particles outside of suspended world.
Cause it's extremely difficult to observe and manipulate them under normal condition. Though some US can do that to some extent, like Diablo's skill.
Like it is an entirely different speed when time is stopped and when time continues
No, speed is costant.
This shows that Chloe likely can’t go back from the end of time and space
Yeah, cause there is no "past" to go back, the world got destroyed so no oast version of Chloe.
a character has to be able to go to the beginning of time or end of time at will with just speed so Chloe can’t do this
Rimuru set IP from there so THEORICALLY they can go back, i guess it's just to diffult as you need the precise coordinate
 
Quick question.
Does infinite regeneration via Rimuru's cells count as high godly regeneration? Considering nihilty collapse erases the information in info particles
 
Quick question.
Does infinite regeneration via Rimuru's cells count as high godly regeneration? Considering nihilty collapse erases the information in info particles
it has to be complete erasure then regenerating from that. We have a case for feldway from getting hit from end of the world requiem which simulates the world's collapse/end powered by nihility collapse then regenerating from nothing.
 
Quick question.
Does infinite regeneration via Rimuru's cells count as high godly regeneration? Considering nihilty collapse erases the information in info particles
Well no, high godly need complete erasure.
At least not for now. (Even though Diablo who have HG would have been erased by turn null and would not have respawned instantly, he said something like « I will be reborn someday to serve you again great rimuru Sama 🙏 » but I doubt his word since even twilight was completely destroyed, he could completely handle turn null after receiving the cells)

Although those slimes cells have a regeneration speed that exceed the devouring speed of turn null capable of blocking information particles that flies across time and space.

It can also heal damage from turn null, wich is normally impossible, it is because for those cells turn null is nothing more than fuel to work.

So it actually feed the regenerative capability of those cells when they get destroyed by turn null.

They possess infinite regeneration each, meaning that even if one destroys his soul, hearts core and everything as long there is even a single cell, it will reform his whole physiology.

So it is actually a kind of mid godly but boosted to next level, probably better than some high godly.

Also there is still the fact that soul is made of Spiritron, we didn’t do anything with that but since it is the fundamental substance forming magicules, holy power, the ultimate principles of the world (that ultimate magic affect) or in general magic itself, it could definitely be a fundamental aspect to make it HG.
 
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