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Ben 10: Ascalon Tier Revision

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Firestorm808 said:
I dunno. Variable AP based on "worthiness" seems iffy for me.
Click to expand...
Understandable but it seems to be a consistent aspect between various characters that we've seen use Ascalon.

The Incursian warrior's feat was causing dwarf star level destruction, despite Galvans having the most powerful weapons in the universe, Ascalon being the greatest among these.
Sir George struggling to defeat Ultimate Humungousaur and losing to the Dagon, only winning the first time due to Dagon's arrogance. With even Asmuth doubting his choice and wanting to take Ascalon back and George becoming more arrogant after receiving the sword.
Then there's Ben, who despite having Ascalon for a short while could effortlessly defeat Dagon's power, who is stronger than a more powerful than Ultimate Waybig, while base Waybig could no-diff the entire roster of Ultimate aliens.

It seems to explain the varying levels of power showcased by the different users. Otherwise is seems unreasonable to give Characters like Ultimate Humungousaur durability on par with Dagon and Ultimate Waybig simply from tanking attacks from 'a non-holding back' George.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, seems iffy.
Click to expand...
And the additional abilities?
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Additional abilities:

NRG:
• Resistance to Mana Manipulation
(Was unphased by this explosion.)
• Resistance to Information Analysis Mana Manipulation
(The armor prevented Gwen from her Mana abilities.)

Asmuth:
• BRF via Teleportation
(His teleporter could teleport Ben, Gwen, Kevin and the Rust Bucket 3 to another galaxy, teleport Ben and Rook from Earth to Galavan Prime and teleported Albedo to an intergalactic prison.)
• Possibly Dimensional Travel
(Comparable to his alternate timeline self, which could fix the Warpfield Generator and built a dimensional traveling watch.)
• Resistance to Power Mimicry via Morphogenic Dampening Field
(Built a Morphogenic Dampening Field that blocked Skurd's power.)
• Matter and Biology Manipulation (Atomic) via surgery
(Could perform ionic partical surgery to break genetic adaptation bonds.)
• Limited Regeneration (High)
(Has a contingency plan to restore himself after being vaporized on an atomic level with help from others.)
• All abilities and resistances of the Omnitrix and Ascalon via Preparation Time
(Created both the Omnitrix and Ascalon and should be be able to create devices with similar abilities.)

Canonbolt:
• Shockwave Generation and Air Manipulation
(Can bounce around to create powerful shockwaves and spin around to create fierce tornados.)

Thank you, @jgms2008. For the following abilities.

Ben Tennyson:
• Possibly Analytical Prediction
Devised a plan that, as he predicted, was successfully executed to deceive the Incursians.
• Immortality (Type 3 and 8)
The Omnitrix pervents Ben from dying, even if it means restoring Ben's body from being physically destroyed whether he is shattered, destroyed on a quantum level, or complete physical destruction.

Azmuth:
• Vehicular Mastery
Implied to be able to pilot a ship better than the Arthropod due to superior intelligence.
• Purification (Type 3) Biology Manipulation via Technology
Claimed to be developing technology capable of curing Malware's corrupted genetic code.
• Retrocognition Illusion Creation via Technology
Showed Ben and his companions the origin of Primus, the battle between Sir George and Diagon, the destruction of the Incursian home world and his own past.
• Instinctive Action
Galvanians have two brains, one of which is responsible for handling basic actions in case their consciousness is drained.

Chromastone:
• Limited Restoration (via Sacred Crystal and Power Absorption)
Restored Petropia.

Jetray:
• Durability Negation
Neuroshock blasts can directly target the nervous system.

Greymatter:
• Likely Information Analysis
Likely superior to Brainstorm, could perfectly analyze the environment to prank Chet and JT.
• Automatic Translation
Due to his higher intelligence, Greymatter understands languages like Pixie's technobabble.
• Accelerated Development (Abilities; Passive)
Capable of absorbing and processing any type of information in his brain, copying it with the ability to learn quickly, recreate what he has seen only once, and understand unknown information. Examples include, replicating Max Tennyson's Sun-gun while creating an improved version and replicating Khyber's technique.

Nanomech:
• Adaptation
Adapted to beat the Nanochip Queen despite her claiming to be able to beat any Nanochip, likely comparable to other Nanochips, who've adapted multiple times during a single battle.

Eon:
• Summoning
Capable of summoning allies to assist in combat, including Alternate Bens, Time Warriors transformed into creatures, and Robots.

Ghostfreak
• Limited Resistance to Antimatter Manipulation
His species is adapted to an antimatter sun.

Gravattack
• Status Effect Inducement
Can increase the gravitational fields of others, slowing them down or even stopping them dead in their tracks.

Omnitrix
• Size Manipulation and Transformation
Transformed into a larger version of itself to fit the wearer.
• Purification(All Types)
Removed the effects of Gwen's magic spells upon transformation like transformation and speed reduction effects. Could heal the genetic damage brought by an Xenocyte, which corrupts one's mind and body.

Agree: @Firestorm808(The CRT has been edited according to Firestorm808's specifications)

Disagree:

Neutral:
Click to expand...
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. Fine
  2. Likely Information Analysis. We don't really have an indication that he can mentally analyze things like Brainstorm has in his head.
  3. We don't have proof that Greymatter by default doesn't know the language and can auto translate any. Greymatter could just be smart enough to know multiple languages.
  4. That's not really Accelerated Development.
  5. This is not adaptation. "Adaptation is the ability to survive and adapt to different situations and natural environments." "Adaptation only gives a character the ability to balance the resources of its current body, not to, for example, grow more durable or powerful."
  6. I suppose
  7. Limited Resistance to Antimatter Manipulation unless you can show he can take actual anti-matter attacks.
  8. I suppose.
  9. Maybe?
  10. I suppose.
Click to expand...
He claims that chips can adapt and he grows the tendril's the Queen has, which she was genuinely shocked by. If this isn't Adaptation, is it Accelerated Development?
 
Firestorm808 said:
  1. Fine
  2. Likely Information Analysis. We don't really have an indication that he can mentally analyze things like Brainstorm has in his head.
  3. We don't have proof that Greymatter by default doesn't know the language and can auto translate any. Greymatter could just be smart enough to know multiple languages.
  4. That's not really Accelerated Development.
  5. This is not adaptation. "Adaptation is the ability to survive and adapt to different situations and natural environments." "Adaptation only gives a character the ability to balance the resources of its current body, not to, for example, grow more durable or powerful."
  6. I suppose
  7. Limited Resistance to Antimatter Manipulation unless you can show he can take actual anti-matter attacks.
  8. I suppose.
  9. Maybe?
  10. I suppose.
Click to expand...
Omegabronic said:
Reactive Evolution
Click to expand...
Is this fine?

Microscopic Bump!
 
Firestorm808 said:
Does this have anything to do with Nanomech being a hybrid?
Click to expand...
No, Nanomech's partial human physiology doesn't have anything to do with Nanomech's ability to adapt during combat. It's arguable that his human half/mind/willpower allowed him to break free from the Queen's hive-mind, as Ben claimed. But his ability to have adapted tendrils and become powerful than the Queen is directly due to the Nanochip's ability to adapt to threats, similarly to the one's fighting Humungousaur.

Reactive Evolution works better as Accelerated Development only accounts for still/physicals but here Nanomech also gained additional abilities while getting stronger physically to defeat the Nanochip Queen.

(EDIT; The underlined links don't work, so I added the full fight.)
 
Last edited:
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
No, Nanomech's partial human physiology doesn't have anything to do with Nanomech's ability to adapt during combat. It's arguable that his human half/mind/willpower allowed him to break free from the Queen's hive-mind, as Ben claimed. But his ability to have adapted tendrils and become powerful than the Queen is directly due to the Nanochip's ability to adapt to threats, similarly to the one's fighting Humungousaur.

Reactive Evolution works better as Accelerated Development only accounts for still/physicals but here Nanomech also gained additional abilities while getting stronger physically to defeat the Nanochip Queen.

(EDIT; The underlined links don't work, so I added the full fight.)
Click to expand...

Reactive Evolution is the ability to, in response to threats and adverse situations, evolve in ways the user previously lacked. This allowing them to be better capable of dealing with said issues faced, and this evolution can come in the following ways:

  • Developing new powers or abilities
  • Developing new resistances
  • Developing greater statistics. However, if this is the only way in which they "evolve", then Accelerated Development should be given instead to avoid redundancy.
Seems fine.
 
Reiner04 said:
Oh yeah thinking carefully it is iffy... there is no way that weirder would know how much power output he needs to defeat someone.
Click to expand...
That's not what the premise is, I mean the Ascalon's output power is dependent on how worthy the wielder is, which is explained in the OP. Not that the weird can know the power output to defeat someone.

It's analogous to mjolnir, where the wielder needs to be worthy enough to lift and use it.
 
Hellformer said:
That's not what the premise is, I mean the Ascalon's output power is dependent on how worthy the wielder is, which is explained in the OP. Not that the weird can know the power output to defeat someone.

It's analogous to mjolnir, where the wielder needs to be worthy enough to lift and use it.
Click to expand...
Nah thst looks iffy to me w/o in-verse establishment of such detail thing on worthiness...
 
Reiner04 said:
Nah thst looks iffy to me w/o in-verse establishment of such detail thing on worthiness...
Click to expand...
Despite Asmuth giving George the blade, he never stated George to be worthy and even doubted giving him the sword, suggesting that George like the prior weilder would destroy the planet. Now compare this to Ben, who despite giving up the power, Asmuth considered worthy and weilding Ascalon easily defeated a Dagon-powered-Vilgax.
Click to expand...
From the OP

Otherwise you can't explain certain things like:
  • Ultimate Humungousaur matching George who wasn't holding back
  • George getting horribly one shotted by Dagon
  • Ben being able to wield the same ascalon and one shot Dagonax
 
Hellformer said:
From the OP

Otherwise you can't explain certain things like:
  • Ultimate Humungousaur matching George who wasn't holding back
  • George getting horribly one shotted by Dagon
  • Ben being able to wield the same ascalon and one shot Dagonax
Click to expand...
Yeah but that could very well be pis, we know how scaling of regular characters vary in the franchise. And this Dagon arc in particular is famous for it. Few things don't need to be explained but just take it as it is.
 
Reiner04 said:
Yeah but that could very well be pis, we know how scaling of regular characters vary in the franchise. And this Dagon arc in particular is famous for it. Few things don't need to be explained but just take it as it is.
Click to expand...
i don't think dagon and ascalon feats are P.I.S cuz we have seen that Sir George defeated Dagon in the past because Dagon underestimated George in the first place like how Vilgax did against Ben when he had Dagon's power, Dagon's power is stated so many times that its being better than Ascalon's
 
Hellformer said:
Can you respond to Ascalon's variable tier argument in the OP?
Click to expand...
My opinion is the same as before. It's iffy to me. I need some in-universe explanation rather than metaphorical interpretations.

IE: The Sword was designed to scan the user's brain for certain criteria and regulates power output based on those criteria.
 
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