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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

BlastX said:
Ok leaving aside Shadow would have looked like a even bigger loser if he jobbed with his limiters off, that's still on Ian, nothing you trying to spin here makes him look good when it was his choice to make Shadow look bad
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Oh it wouldn't, Shadow holding off hundreds of Zombots at once to leave the survivors with a chance to, well, survive, would have been an epic moment, no one can convince me otherwise


Theuser789 said:
Or... Or... he could've just dropped the idea since Shadow wasn't OP enough to ruin the story. Nobody was holding a gun to his head forcing him to write the scene. The entire point of this debate is that it was all IAN's fault for the quality of the scene.
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Of course he was? There is no running away problem with Shadow, he can just use Chaos Control to teleport everyone to safety, he could just use the Master Emerald to stop time and solo Zavok, no tension, he IS too OP enough to ruin the story


BlastX said:
Daniel Barnes said the mandates weren't the boogieman people were making it out to be, and he came way later after the supposed restrictions.
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Never did Ian said they were a "boogie man", just a complication... which yeah, restrictions are undoubtedly
 
Theuser789 said:
Ian also objectively wrote Shadow extremely OOC in Archie, which is why Ian struggles so much with Sega's actual direction. I have no idea how that got warped into "Sega HATES Ian, actually".
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"Ian wants to discharectize the Sonic cast into his own view, so much so that Sega has to direct interfere to stop him, and even still he goes directly against them by subverting their direction and saying they are wrong in the comic itself"

More or less what you were implying with your messages... that does make "Sega hates Ian" the view here
 
ShakeResounding said:
Yeah I'm ngl, Ian has this warped perception of certain characters which has the potential to ruin several of them. IDW has shown that to me.
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him getting that Sonic is supposed to be compassionate and, you know, HEROIC, is what made me like IDW for example... Some people want Sonic to be a rude asshole who doesn't care about life at all and kills on sight, as if that was always what he was... even with Sonic CD being a thing
 
Omegabronic said:
him getting that Sonic is supposed to be compassionate and, you know, HEROIC, is what made me like IDW for example... Some people want Sonic to be a rude asshole who doesn't care about life at all and kills on sight, as if that was always what he was... even with Sonic CD being a thing
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To be fair, he don't exactly need to kill his enemies, he could atleast do the sensible thing and trown Eggman in prison.

But he always let him go in the IDW. Which is a little dumb.
 
Omegabronic said:
Of course he was? There is no running away problem with Shadow, he can just use Chaos Control to teleport everyone to safety, he could just use the Master Emerald to stop time and solo Zavok, no tension, he IS too OP enough to ruin the story
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Sonic can literally do all those things as well. It's just skill issue from Ian, that's all.
Omegabronic said:
More or less what you were implying with your messages... that does make "Sega hates Ian" the view here
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I am not debating any ramblings here. Either you interact with what I am saying or keep debating with the me in your head.
 
Omegabronic said:
him getting that Sonic is supposed to be compassionate and, you know, HEROIC, is what made me like IDW for example...
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Sonic doesn't brandish his heroism like a trophy though, nor is he one to recite speeches over morality.
Some people want Sonic to be a rude asshole who doesn't care about life at all and kills on sight, as if that was always what he was... even with Sonic CD being a thing
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This seems disingenous. Sonic can be a complete and utter asshole but still care about those around him. I'd argue Sonic started as an asshole, even.

Also, I don't think people want Sonic to be bloodthirsty, they want people to stop pretending like Sonic isn't willing to kill. You always bring it up but like... barely anyone says what you're saying they do.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
To be fair, he don't exactly need to kill his enemies, he could atleast do the sensible thing and trown Eggman in prison.

But he always let him go in the IDW. Which is a little dumb.
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Yeah, Sega mandates that he doesn't do that, he is for freedom all the time according to them... but people for some reason blame solely Ian for this
 
Omegabronic said:
him getting that Sonic is supposed to be compassionate and, you know, HEROIC, is what made me like IDW for example... Some people want Sonic to be a rude asshole who doesn't care about life at all and kills on sight, as if that was always what he was... even with Sonic CD being a thing
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Nice straw man buddy, eally healthy discussion right there
 
Fezzih_007 said:
To be fair, he don't exactly need to kill his enemies, he could atleast do the sensible thing and trown Eggman in prison.

But he always let him go in the IDW. Which is a little dumb.
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The funny thing is he doesn't do that in the games, he always leaves him to die and actually attempts on his life from time to time.

People think the decision it's all on Sonic when Eggman himself is good at escaping and surviving.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Also, I don't think people want Sonic to be bloodthirsty, they want people to stop pretending like Sonic isn't willing to kill. You always bring it up but like... barely anyone says what you're saying they do.
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man, the examples where Sonic kills are so specific that it is almost impossible to count them has Sonic genuinly killing a sentient being.
 
BlastX said:
The funny thing is he doesn't do that in the games, he always leaves him to die and actually attempts on his life from time to time.

People think the decision it's all on Sonic when Eggman himself is good at escaping and surviving.
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Sonic 2, Eggman was definitely left for dead
 
ShakeResounding said:
Sonic doesn't brandish his heroism like a trophy though, nor is he one to recite speeches over morality.
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I mean... i wouldn't call answering someone who asked "why are you not trying to kill me" with the answer to that as "brandish his heroism like a trophy"... what else would he do? Ignore her and not get an answer he wanted? "Why is this random girl trying to kill me so bad and blaming me?"

ShakeResounding said:
This seems disingenous. Sonic can be a complete and utter asshole but still care about those around him. I'd argue Sonic started as an asshole, even.
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Agree to Disagree, that one quote in CD sold to me that he was always compassionate first, he had an attitude, sure, but he was hardly an "asshole"

ShakeResounding said:
Also, I don't think people want Sonic to be bloodthirsty, they want people to stop pretending like Sonic isn't willing to kill. You always bring it up but like... barely anyone says what you're saying they do.
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Not nowadays, by the time Issue 50 came out a lot of people were hating on Sonic for "not killing" his enemies, like Eggman or Surge, as if he SHOULD have thought of killing first, that he shouldn't try to talk at all
 
BlastX said:
The funny thing is he doesn't do that in the games, he always leaves him to die and actually attempts on his life from time to time.

People think the decision it's all on Sonic when Eggman himself is good at escaping and surviving.
Click to expand...
Which shows that he indeed doesn't go to kill, he lets them choose, even if it leads to their deaths, aka exactly as he told to Surge in issue 50
 
LukeChaosBlobz said:
Sonic 2, Eggman was definitely left for dead
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Not just that, Sonic 1, Sonic CD if you get the bad ending, Pocket Adventure (even when Eggman was begging him not to), Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, Forces.

Those times he either left think for dead or actually attempted on his life and he didn't give a solitarily ****.
 
BlastX said:
The funny thing is he doesn't do that in the games, he always leaves him to die and actually attempts on his life from time to time.

People think the decision it's all on Sonic when Eggman himself is good at escaping and surviving.
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Yeah, in the games Sonic mostly don't let him go without doing anything to Eggman, is just Eggman being skilled to survive.

But when he just leave him be, without actually trying to make a more permanent sollution, is kinda dumb on his part.
Omegabronic said:
Yeah, Sega mandates that he doesn't do that, he is for freedom all the time according to them... but people for some reason blame solely Ian for this
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Really? That's kinda weird logic, Sonic let "freedom card" speak when the person in question jeopardize people freedom constantly?

Sega mandantes are something...
 
Apparently in Lost World JP Sonic straight up kills the Deadly Six and Eggman says he’ll resurrect them with the conch (might be wrong)
 
Snek said:
Honestly Erazor Djinn getting stuck in a lamp for all of eternity is probably worse than death all things considered.

Also did you guys see how hard Sonic threw that rock at Eggman in Sonic CD because that toss was low key insane.
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the guy is pure evil, he deserves it
 
Omegabronic said:
I mean... i wouldn't call answering someone who asked "why are you not trying to kill me" with the answer to that as "brandish his heroism like a trophy"... what else would he do? Ignore her and not get an answer he wanted? "Why is this random girl trying to kill me so bad and blaming me?"
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The entire monologue after Surge calls him naive and he says "I like to keep it simple." is OOC. He doesn't go on long monologues like that.
Agree to Disagree, that one quote in CD sold to me that he was always compassionate first, he had an attitude, sure, but he was hardly an "asshole"
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I'd consider having an attitude as synonymous with being an asshole.

You act as if assholes can't have compassion.
Not nowadays, by the time Issue 50 came out a lot of people were hating on Sonic for "not killing" his enemies, like Eggman or Surge, as if he SHOULD have thought of killing first, that he shouldn't try to talk at all
Click to expand...
Haha, well to be fair, I think that was moreso fueled by Surge character hate and Twitter weirdos being a vocal minority.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Sega mandantes are something...
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Omega is wrong. Nothing in the mandates say Sonic doesn't want to kill Eggman. He literally trapped Erazor. He just doesn't go around seeking evil to defeat.

Here, read the part about Sonic and Eggman's relationship written by Toyoda:
browniehideout.wordpress.com

Sonic Channel Wallpaper Cover Story: Super Sonic & Dr. Eggman (December 2021)

“Wallpaper Cover Story,” a mini novel tied to the wallpaper illustration, is now available! 📖This time it’s Super Sonic & Eggman. 🦔🥚Eggman’s gravity weapon is deployed i…
browniehideout.wordpress.com browniehideout.wordpress.com

To Sonic, Eggman is “the one who brings adventure.”

Every time, he causes a major incident that the world has never seen or heard of before, catching everyone around the world by surprise, and he challenges them brazenly without hesitation to say that he is a villain himself.

He’s a nuisance, and in fact Sonic won’t admit it, but perhaps this is one aspect of Eggman that Sonic finds appealing.

Also, if “adventure” can be replaced with “ambition,” then Sonic is also something of the sort for Eggman…?

Perhaps that’s one of the aspects of the relationship between true sworn enemies.
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ShakeResounding said:
Bro would've been a killer Baseball player!
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Funny you say that
latest
 
Snek said:
Did anybody else notice that everyone who fought Para-demons on screen only beat small groups of them with effort while Sonic and Flash took out over two hundred each and were still ready to fight more of them? Just a funny observation that its been one issue and Sonic and Flash have already showcased how goated they are.

I say that while knowing Darkseid might hit them with the Worf effect in the very next issue.
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To be fair, they were taken off-guard and we didn't really see the other characters fight all that much.
 
Alexander said:
the guy is pure evil, he deserves it
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Ya no disagreement there and technically speaking punishment is meant to fit the crime and Erazor Djinn tried destroying his universe and eventually others so in a sense he has committed a crime on an infinite scale so it makes sense on that principle that he deserves an infinite punishment.

But on the other hand just speaking from a practical standpoint bros brain is going to be mush after the first million years let alone literal eternity so his punishment still seems excessive. Then again somebody could rub the lamp again unless Sonic's wish made that impossible so maybe he won't truly be stuck forever just for however many millenia it takes for someone to find his lamp.
 
BlastX said:
Daniel Barnes said the mandates weren't the boogieman people were making it out to be, and he came way later after the supposed restrictions.

And the reason Shadow Gens is the way it is (individually of how it's basically just a neutered rehash of an arc Shadow already went through) is because Sega is gonna keep heavy watch over the games writing compared to the comic.
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This seems rather reductive. Shadows Generations is literally its own story. It doesn't even go over the same themes as past games. This is a Shadow that is completely assured of his identity and is actively working to fix the mess Black Doom made without any of the mental gymnastics that people around him were putting him through. In fact, he comes out looking really good and we haven't had this much good for the character since 06 and that's great.

Even if it was a "rehash", this game was to introduce old and potential new fans to Shadow again to remind them of why people liked him in the first place. Of course they have to tread old ground. It's the literal point of the marketing. It's to get more fans on board and it WORKED. It literally was a complete win and many people liked it. Even still, it wasn't a rehash at all and has a completely different theme. The only thing that was rehashed was Black Doom, Gerald, and Maria, but it isn't even the same situation at all.
 
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My first and only opinion on characterization discourse is that I personally don't care about it and that Sega should hand over the reigns of Sonic to new blood because I ain't a fan of the "One or two good games per decade" stratergy they've been trying out since the dreamcast, an game made by RGG would be peak.

My second opinion on characterization discourse is that Rivals Silver is the only time he's written well, I don't care about dumbass bootleg Trunks from 06, not too keen on polite nice guy modern Silver, but Silver in rivals? Raw, Peak, dare I say... Kino.

And my third and final opinion on characterization is that the classics, Heroes, the Riders Games, and to an extent Frontiers are the only times they really nail Knuckles. Other times I feel they make him too serious and other times they make him too much of the stupid comic relief.

And my fourth opinion on characterization discourse is that Daniel Barnes should also get to work on a mainline game because Scrapnick Island is peak fiction.
 
Dust_Collector said:
My second opinion on characterization discourse is that Rivals Silver is the only time he's written well, I don't care about dumbass bootleg Trunks from 06, not too keen on polite nice guy modern Silver, but Silver in rivals? Raw, Peak, dare I say... Kino.
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I think a mix of both versions of Silver could be cool to give him layers. He didn't really feel like Trunks either in 06. Only Trunks-like thing about Silver was that he's a time-traveler trying to prevent a future disaster from taking place while also being a similar race to the big two. Which isn't exactly unique to Trunks or Silver. I don't like when Silver is OVERLY nice is all. He has Sonic-isms AND Shadow-isms. I like that. He's a good middle-ground for the trio dynamic.
 
ShakeResounding said:
The entire monologue after Surge calls him naive and he says "I like to keep it simple." is OOC. He doesn't go on long monologues like that.
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She literally kept asking him the entire time over and over again, kept acusing him of ruining her life and that she should kill him ot the oposite, this is a unique situation wr never sae him in, it isn't really out of character, it is perfectly reasonable that he explained something directly asked in this situation

ShakeResounding said:
I'd consider having an attitude as synonymous with being an asshole.
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well i don't

ShakeResounding said:
You act as if assholes can't have compassion.
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A sellfish asshole is a unique type of asshole

ShakeResounding said:
Haha, well to be fair, I think that was moreso fueled by Surge character hate and Twitter weirdos being a vocal minority.
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Yeah ig lol
 
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