Small DB manga upgrade

[TiltedFN]

Hello all, Basically we don't use a calc for roshi's moon bust in the manga, we just use the GBE of the moon, which is obviously wrong, the reason for this, is the manga is weird to calc without a time frame, which is why I'm suggesting to use the anime calc to apply to the manga, since its literally the same thing just animated. If you watch the scene in the anime, its literally 1:1 with the manga's version of the moon bust, which means there should be no problem with having the anime calc apply to the manga. I've also confirmed with multiple staff members that this is allowed, and this has been done many times before, such as using the anime time frame to decide the speed of roshi's kamehameha for the manga, since again, they are the same thing. This should be fairly simple. The accepted calc can be found in the profile here.




Agree: LephyrTheRevanchist, Nierre, DarkDragonMedeus

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

this is done with countless other verses, is allowed, and is 1:1 so if this gets pushback because of it being in anime I feel like that'd warrant some eyebrows being raised

 

[AwkguyDB]

Agree to the highest power

 

[Huesito88]

this is done with countless other verses, is allowed, and is 1:1 so if this gets pushback because of it being in anime I feel like that'd warrant some eyebrows being raised

Don't jinx it!

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

This makes plenty of sense, I agree.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Yeah this is pretty straightforward, I agree.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Agreed

 

[TheGreatBanana]

This looks alright, I agree

 

[Da3ggman]

If we use the anime timeframe to find the speed on the accepted Manga calc, I see no reason not to use it for the power. Agree with this.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I don’t think so, anime adaptations should be used as a reference to gauge information that the still medium of manga cannot provide, which is fine for timeframe of attacks, but it should not be used to upgrade the entire feat using content and scaling that’s absent in the source material to max wank the verse into kingdom come

We have a reason for separating manga and anime profiles so it would defeat the point to award the manga for high scaling of the anime, The linked blog calculates the Kinetic Energy produced from the moon’s mass moving at MHS+ speeds denoted by the flying fragments, something not in the manga at all therefore it should not be upgraded. I disagree

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yeah I see no problem,agree with the upgrade

 

[TiltedFN]

I don’t think so, anime adaptations should be used as a reference to gauge information that the still medium of manga cannot provide, which is fine for timeframe of attacks, but it should not be used to upgrade the entire feat using content and scaling that’s absent in the source material to max wank the verse into kingdom come

We have a reason for separating manga and anime profiles so it would defeat the point to award the manga for high scaling of the anime, The linked blog calculates the Kinetic Energy produced from the moon’s mass moving at MHS+ speeds denoted by the flying fragments, something not in the manga at all therefore it should not be upgraded. I disagree

Yeah no, this isn't wank, the anime and manga scene are quite literally 1 to 1 with the source material, there is not a single difference from what we see, and we do the same thing with the kamehameha roshi speed calc which we use the anime for. There is nothing to argue here.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I don’t think so, anime adaptations should be used as a reference to gauge information that the still medium of manga cannot provide, which is fine for timeframe of attacks, but it should not be used to upgrade the entire feat using content and scaling that’s absent in the source material to max wank the verse into kingdom come

We have a reason for separating manga and anime profiles so it would defeat the point to award the manga for high scaling of the anime, The linked blog calculates the Kinetic Energy produced from the moon’s mass moving at MHS+ speeds denoted by the flying fragments, something not in the manga at all therefore it should not be upgraded. I disagree

The whole point it's only 5-C is because the manga kinda makes it hard to calc in the first place... The feat is very likely beyond just 5-C, but only the GBE of the moon could be used due to uncertainties. There is absolutely no award here but is instead making a bare minimum into something with an actual faithful calc attached to it.

 

[Killerdrone123]

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1191392274047840299/1350242586312577116/13-vyYAbXeJyOz2C.webp?ex=67d606e6&is=67d4b566&hm=a5c9d5bcaf1948529115ba214c36b946ac83b2e3f6ad1ac9474f68193be7e68a&

The feat is literally 1:1 in manga we also see the debris flying so yes it is present in manga

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I cannot wait for this thread to go smoothly.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Yeah no, this isn't wank, the anime and manga scene are quite literally 1 to 1 with the source material, there is not a single difference from what we see, and we do the same thing with the kamehameha roshi speed calc which we use the anime for. There is nothing to argue here.

You need to actually prove it's completely 1:1 and address the reasons I laid out for them not being the same instead of trying to shut it down
The fragments themselves don't have clear indicators of movement, like trailing lines or directional blurs. or rocks illustrated in a manner to imply movement of any sort,

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1350245110490861639/image.png?ex=67d60940&is=67d4b7c0&hm=71d0f888988e370546645a026b1e95bf754f5b924d7e55f5b24a166aaa892aa3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2275&height=1437

even the lines of the debris are positioned in a way that does not support implication of movement from an omnidirectional blast, it seems to be me that it is more like the debris from the aftermath, you also cannot prove the debris would travel as much as the radius of the moon from the original calc


anime has these, manga doesn't.
It is not the same.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

'No trailing lines implying outward movement'

Mfers just straight up be lying

 

[TheGreatBanana]

"The debris aren't 90° degrees and the number of degrees is 10 instead of 10.5! Can't be used. "

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree FRA.

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

It seems basic, I agree

 

[Da3ggman]

You need to actually prove it's completely 1:1 and address the reasons I laid out for them not being the same instead of trying to shut it down
The fragments themselves don't have clear indicators of movement, like trailing lines or directional blurs. or rocks illustrated in a manner to imply movement of any sort,

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1350245110490861639/image.png?ex=67d60940&is=67d4b7c0&hm=71d0f888988e370546645a026b1e95bf754f5b924d7e55f5b24a166aaa892aa3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2275&height=1437

even the lines of the debris are positioned in a way that does not support implication of movement from an omnidirectional blast, it seems to be me that it is more like the debris from the aftermath, you also cannot prove the debris would travel as much as the radius of the moon from the original calc


anime has these, manga doesn't.
It is not the same.

Bro is the king of reaching .

Nah but fr dawg you are arguing nothing right now, it’s obvious that they’re meant to be the same feat, and the debris scattering in all directions is in both versions illustrates that.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

You need to actually prove it's completely 1:1 and address the reasons I laid out for them not being the same instead of trying to shut it down
The fragments themselves don't have clear indicators of movement, like trailing lines or directional blurs. or rocks illustrated in a manner to imply movement of any sort,

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1350245110490861639/image.png?ex=67d60940&is=67d4b7c0&hm=71d0f888988e370546645a026b1e95bf754f5b924d7e55f5b24a166aaa892aa3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2275&height=1437

even the lines of the debris are positioned in a way that does not support implication of movement from an omnidirectional blast, it seems to be me that it is more like the debris from the aftermath, you also cannot prove the debris would travel as much as the radius of the moon from the original calc


anime has these, manga doesn't.
It is not the same.

I mean it's literally animated vs a manga panel. The core idea remains the same.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Looks good I’m in agreement

 

[TiltedFN]

You need to actually prove it's completely 1:1 and address the reasons I laid out for them not being the same instead of trying to shut it down
The fragments themselves don't have clear indicators of movement, like trailing lines or directional blurs. or rocks illustrated in a manner to imply movement of any sort,

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1350245110490861639/image.png?ex=67d60940&is=67d4b7c0&hm=71d0f888988e370546645a026b1e95bf754f5b924d7e55f5b24a166aaa892aa3&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2275&height=1437

even the lines of the debris are positioned in a way that does not support implication of movement from an omnidirectional blast, it seems to be me that it is more like the debris from the aftermath, you also cannot prove the debris would travel as much as the radius of the moon from the original calc


anime has these, manga doesn't.
It is not the same.

This is nitpick at it's finest ghost, the debris is CLEARLY being propelled outwards, you clearly aren't looking at the same panel I am. The anime takes straight from the manga, which is why it's animated the way it is, you being unable to believe that is not my problem. Debris from the aftermath? Brother it literally is showing the EXPLOSION on panel. It's meant to show us what is happening in that very instance, you pulled that out of your ass.

 

[Shar122]

Obviously agree

 

[UnoRebaixadO]

average debunker quiz


□ manga illusion

□ outlier because yes

□ lack of interpretation

□ wrong (expected elaboration)

 

[Omegabronic]

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1191392274047840299/1350242586312577116/13-vyYAbXeJyOz2C.webp?ex=67d606e6&is=67d4b566&hm=a5c9d5bcaf1948529115ba214c36b946ac83b2e3f6ad1ac9474f68193be7e68a&

The feat is literally 1:1 in manga we also see the debris flying so yes it is present in manga

The explosion happened in the last panel as shown by the sound effect... how could there be flying debree before that?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The explosion happened in the last panel as shown by the sound effect... how could there be flying debree before that?

Dramatic build up to the explosion panel itself.

Showing characters reacting to something but not showing what they are reacting to builds suspense.

It's just Toriyama hyping up the magnitude of the blast. Cinematic timing/paneling.

 

[Omegabronic]

Dramatic build up to the explosion panel itself.

Showing characters reacting to something but not showing what they are reacting to builds suspense.

It's just Toriyama hyping up the magnitude of the blast. Cinematic timing/paneling.

The sound effect of it being destroyed clearly shows WHEN it was destroyed, makes no sense to show it only then if it already happened, it isn't about timing... it is about the course of events shown

 

[ChoursDropoff]

The explosion happened in the last panel as shown by the sound effect... how could there be flying debree before that?

What’s your point? In the tier 5 feat it is already accepted the debris was shot at ftl speeds.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The sound effect of it being destroyed clearly shows WHEN it was destroyed, makes no sense to show it only then if it already happened, it isn't about timing... it is about the course of events shown

Almost as if the light and debris of the explosion was faster than the speed of sound.

Either way, it's clearly cinematic timing. It would make no sense to not highlight the blast after building up to it with this panel layout.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This is nitpick at it's finest ghost, the debris is CLEARLY being propelled outwards, you clearly aren't looking at the same panel I am. The anime takes straight from the manga, which is why it's animated the way it is, you being unable to believe that is not my problem. Debris from the aftermath? Brother it literally is showing the EXPLOSION on panel. It's meant to show us what is happening in that very instance, you pulled that out of your ass.

I'll agree that it is showing the explosion however other points are still not really addressed

-there are 0 motion trailing lines
-no evidence that the debris traversed the radius of the moon
-the lines are on the rock most likely drawn with the intention of adding textures are placed randomly as opposed to outward facing


being an explosion does not necessitate these things which are required if you wish to push for a 1:1 claim, the anime can only grant you timeframe it cannot give distance travelled.

it’s obvious that they’re meant to be the same feat

if you wanna argue with intention then we should downgrade the toei feat to 29.6 exatons since it carries over the same intent as the original which is the destruction of the moon and nothing else whatsoever, minor changes in feats can change the results drastically, I personally don't believe that should be used to ignore all else in the name of upgrades

if the other supporters can only reply with "no its this way, the other way is completely wrong" then I'll leave it at this until a good counterargument shows up

 

[Omegabronic]

What’s your point? In the tier 5 feat it is already accepted the debris was shot at ftl speeds.

1 ... if it was shot at FTL speeds then i am pretty sure it breaks our calc rules for such things

2 ... you didn't answered my point at all

Almost as if the light and debris of the explosion was faster than the speed of sound.

The onomatopeia is a visual indicator to show when something happened + ... we can clearly see that there is still many debri in the a sphere shape when we see it... how so if so many had, supposedlt, already flew far away from it? How come the 5-B explosion sent some... but many were able to resist it somehow?

Either way, it's clearly cinematic timing.

nah it isn't

It would make no sense to not highlight the blast after building up to it with this panel layout.

Or it is the light of the Kamehameha blinding everyone to later reveal what it actually did... equally valid, less assumptious

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

1 ... if it was shot at FTL speeds then i am pretty sure it breaks our calc rules for such things

2 ... you didn't answered my point at all


The onomatopeia is a visual indicator to show when something happened + ... we can clearly see that there is still many debri in the a sphere shape when we see it... how so if so many had, supposedlt, already flew far away from it? How come the 5-B explosion sent some... but many were able to resist it somehow?


nah it isn't


Or it is the light of the Kamehameha blinding everyone to later reveal what it actually did... equally valid, less assumptious

'Nah it isn't' isn't an arguement. I know what the blast effect is, that doesn't change the arguement. No one is resisting the blast because debris is flying everywhere, debris can fly beyond a shockwave. And we see what the light lines look like, they are different compared to the debris lines

The format of the panel is pretty clearly building up to the reveal of the explosion itself. That's not much of an assumption, the intent of the page is pretty clear.

You are the one making assumptions and splitting hairs and being purposely obtuse.

 

[Omegabronic]

'Nah it isn't' isn't an arguement.

Almost like i gave the arguments in earlier posts and in the same one youbare answering... crazy

I know what the blast effect is, that doesn't change the arguement. No one is resisting the blast because debris is flying everywhere, debris can fly beyond a shockwave.

And yet so many flew so rapidly to cover the sky with a 5-B level explosion... only for the large majority to stay where the Moon was enough to have a Sphere shape? ... do you honestly don't see the problem?

The format of the panel is pretty clearly building up to the reveal of the explosion itself. That's not much of 'and assumption.

Yes it is given the problems i brought up, the explanation i gave is also build up to show what the Kamehameha did... so arguing on "the likely intent" is kind of useless given the other factors pointed out

You are the one making assumptions

and you are not? Cuz you are factually assuming author intent right now

and splitting hairs and being purposely obtuse.

If you are going to start baselessly accusing me instead of answering my arguments... then i will ignore you, or report if you escalte it... so please don't falsely accuse me of doing stuff? Doesn't help your case anyhow

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Almost like i gave the arguments in earlier posts and in the same one youbare answering... crazy


And yet so many flew so rapidly to cover the sky with a 5-B level explosion... only for the large majority to stay where the Moon was enough to have a Sphere shape? ... do you honestly don't see the problem?


Yes it is given the problems i brought up, the explanation i gave is also build up to show what the Kamehameha did... so arguing on "the likely intent" is kind of useless given the other factors pointed out


and you are not? Cuz you are factually assuming author intent right now


If you are going to start baselessly accusing me instead of answering my arguments... then i will ignore you, or report if you escalte it... so please don't falsely accuse me of doing stuff? Doesn't help your case anyhow

I'm not falsely accusing you, I'm adequately describing your behavior. Your arguements rely on splitting hairs and being obtuse, and I pointed them out and explained why you are grasping ar straws. If you want these 'accusations' to stop, being obtuse and as unchariatable as possible to every single thing.

Now, into your arguements,

That's not a problem, cinematic timing, and the debris is already accepted as FTL. It would be faster than the light and the sound.

Edit: debris is Relativistic, my mistake, but still generally comparable in speed to light, so the arguements wouldn't change. Especially given cinematic paneling.

You can frame it how you want, Toriyama's paneling style has a history of building up the magnitude of blasts using this exact same method of characters reacting to something before the full panel of said thing is shown.

Half of your argument relies on 'your assuming muh author intent' on what is a crystal clear instance of Toriyama's cinematic paneling. Hence why I said you are being obtuse and making assumptions, because that's what this is, being as unchariatable as possible and looking for any minor thing to create into an issue when there are simple explanations for why they aren't.

(Also not a great look to not respond to most of my arguements by accusing me of assuming author intent... while also assuming author intent yourself.)

 

[TheTenno07]

Pretty simple and nothing out of the ordinary, I totally agree

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm not falsely accusing you, I'm adequately describing your behavior. Your arguements rely on splitting hairs and being obtuse, and I pointed them out and explained why you are grasping ar straws. If you want these 'accusations' to stop, being obtuse and as unchariatable as possible to every single thing.

Again accusing falsely, you don't know whatever i am doing is "on purpose" or not, my arguments relies on what we see happening in the scenes provided, nothing more, unless you have a crystal ball to SUDDENTLY be able to read my intent... now seriously, stop, it doesn't help and only derails the thread

That's not a problem, cinematic timing, and the debris is already accepted as FTL. It would be faster than the light and the sound.

If the debrees are FTL then it breaks our calcing rules and the feat cannot be used, as we don't allow things that break physics irl for calculations such as this, such as FTL movement

You can frame it how you want, Toriyama's paneling style has a history of building up the magnitude of blasts using this exact same method of characters reacting to something before the full panel of said thing is shown.

Unless you can prove that he is doing this here, or you prove this pattern being a thibg at all it doesn't have much merit

Also... why are you ignoring the arguments i gave for the onomatopeia being a visual indicator of when something happened? Dismissing my points as non-existent is not cool dude

Half of your argument relies on 'your assuming muh author intent'

not true, most of them are about the scene itself showing contradictions to the thread's conclusion, so like... i am confused why you are not even addressing them

on what is a crystal clear instance of Toriyama's cinematic paneling.

again... assuming intent, prove the intent or stop arguing it

Hence why I said you are being obtuse and making assumptions, because that's what this is, being as unchariatable as possible and looking for any minor thing to create into an issue when there are simple explanations for why they aren't.

i would say the visual effects and supposed "debri" completely contradicting the proposal is anything by "minor"

also, being serious, stop the baseless accusations, it literally doesn't help and i don't find myself confortable talking to someone accusing me of stuff i am not doing purely by assuming my intent to paint me in a bad light

(Also not a great look to not respond to most of my arguements by accusing me of assuming author intent... while also assuming author intent yourself.)

I am not assuming anything, i am showing an equally possible intent... you are the one saying the intent for a fact, i am saying my view and corroborating with what we actually saw in the scenes

 

[TheGreatBanana]

I'm soo ******* lost at omega's arguments that I genuinely think someone else is telling him what to say [someone dumb]...because what? The scenes are clearly 1:1, the abysmal arguments from opposition are beyond laughable. "Muh debris are flown slightly tilted to the right side" etc..yall are grasping at straws that Don't even exist
Also, Omega, stop stonewalling for the 345 billion time, it's annoying af. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing and not to prove a point. Yapping just for the love of the game is crazy.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Again accusing falsely, you don't know whatever i am doing is "on purpose" or not, my arguments relies on what we see happening in the scenes provided, nothing more, unless you have a crystal ball to SUDDENTLY be able to read my intent... now seriously, stop, it doesn't help and only derails the thread


If the debrees are FTL then it breaks our calcing rules and the feat cannot be used, as we don't allow things that break physics irl for calculations such as this, such as FTL movement


Unless you can prove that he is doing this here, or you prove this pattern being a thibg at all it doesn't have much merit

Also... why are you ignoring the arguments i gave for the onomatopeia being a visual indicator of when something happened? Dismissing my points as non-existent is not cool dude


not true, most of them are about the scene itself showing contradictions to the thread's conclusion, so like... i am confused why you are not even addressing them


again... assuming intent, prove the intent or stop arguing it


i would say the visual effects and supposed "debri" completely contradicting the proposal is anything by "minor"

also, being serious, stop the baseless accusations, it literally doesn't help and i don't find myself confortable talking to someone accusing me of stuff i am not doing purely by assuming my intent to paint me in a bad light



I am not assuming anything, i am showing an equally possible intent... you are the one saying the intent for a fact, i am saying my view and corroborating with what we actually saw in the scenes

You been displaying this sort of behavior for years now and have a long history of clogging up and fighting hard against exclusively upgrade threads. I don't need a crystal ball, I quite literally just need pattern recognition of you being as unchariatable as possible, hell this comment is proof.

I didn't dismiss your argument about the sound effect for example, thats you being uncharitable.

I said it didn't change the arguement. It's cinematic paneling. The panel of the explosion is basically the instance the blast occurs. I've already told you that the debris, (which I corrected myself and said it was rel/MHS) and the light would be faster than the sound anyway. Realistically, sound would take ages and the blast would be silent until it reaches the atmosphere, yet there the sound effect is, so clinging to this sound effect as an accurate indicator to begin with is unreliable. It's there for emphasis and style.

'Not true' yes it is. Half you last post was about author intent.

'Prove the intent' you've created an unachievable hoop to jump through, which is why I said you were being obtuse. Toriyama didn't show up and directly say what his intent was, but it's pretty clear to say based off how he panels that his intent was building up to the blast panel by having the characters react to it before it was shown.

If that's not the intent, what is, and why?

You said they are reacting to light, but we see the light effects, and they are different then the effects seen in the panels with people reacting.