FOX Fantastic Four General Discussion Thread

[Lonkitt]

Then Johnny is truly dead T_T

Unfortunately : (

 

[Jinx666]

Don't get rude?

A) All of the cameos are the originals. Not random ass variants

Err yeah, they are. A lot of the X men variants were different ones, since a ton of the characters are dead, yet appeared again. This is a Multiverse movie after all.

B) The production team have literally made it clear this is the SAME JOHNNY STORM from the FOX Films

Source? Pretty sure this one has a difference in costume so that they weren't jsut gonna fodderise the actual FF Johnny

C) The goddamn credits shows behind the scenes footage from films like FOX's Fantastic Four, Elektra, and Blade

Don't see how this is relevant. The characters obv come from those movies as a homage, and im willing to bet Elektra, Blade etc. were. But these are still variants with no proper confirmation on each. Highly doubt they would mercilessly kill the real Johnny exactly from those movies as a gag.

D) The film itself is VERY EXPLICIT about this being the same Johnny

It really isn't other than being a cameo. Literal infinite amount of timelines and no real confirmation its the same one.

The fact that you're suggesting these are random versions is baffling

Please dont talk to me like some redditor? Like, innocently asking a question and you gotta try and respond with some condescending tone

 

[Lonkitt]

Please dont talk to me like some redditor?

I'm not...? I'm not sure if you know how redditors talk. Also, you're the guy saying "errr", which is redditor talk

Err yeah, they are. A lot of the X men variants were different ones, since a ton of the characters are dead, yet appeared again. This is a Multiverse movie after all.

Source? Pretty sure this one has a difference in costume so that they weren't jsut gonna fodderise the actual FF Johnny

Cool headcanons. Anyways, the following is from the artbook for Deadpool & Wolverine

"In the sprawling desolation of the Void, Wade spies a glimmer of hope, of inspiration in the form of a cloaked figure with a very familiar face. But this isn't Chris Evans returning as Captain America, it's him going even further back in his résumé to reprise the role of Fantastic Four's Johnny Storm. Flame on! "That misdirection of assuming it's Cap, only to realize it's Johnny was a very early idea of screenwriters Paul Wernick and Rhett Reese, Shawn Levy says. Even though our story went through dozens of permutations, this Johnny Storm misdirect always survived, and we knew that if we could preserve the secret and pull it off, it would get people on their feet. And indeed, that's been the reaction I've seen. But, in my wildest dreams, I didn't know I would get such a golden movie-star performance as the one Chris Evans gave us. Everything about him, I feel like it's Chris in a Marvel movie, freed from the nobility of Cap and able to be, frankly, much closer to his Boston dude self. And he just chewed it up, spat it out, ate it again, digested it, and created this brief but glorious performance as the OG Johnny Storm. It's just a joy to watch."

"Overall with the marauders, including Aaron Stanford returning to the role of Pyro that he played in 2003's X-Men 2 and 2006's X-Men: The Last Stand, and a variant of Toad, last seen in 2000's X-Men Churchyard says that the costume department sought to "honor the legacy of the Fox X-Men characters and try to get them as close as possible to how they looked before," albeit reflecting what might have been years spent in this dystopian wasteland."

Its funny how only Toad is pointed out as a variant here, while its outright stated that Johnny and Pyro are the originals (literally using the term "OG Johnny Storm"). I mean, hell, this information was used in a previous revision thread too

But I've got more evidence

Ryan Reynolds, a writer and producer for D&W, stated that "it was hard to say goodbye to Chris Evans' Johnny Storm" a statement that doesn't make much sense if this was just....y'know...some random variant we've never spent any time with? Also keep in mind that Ryan Reynolds literally got Chris Evans on this film texting him and asking if he'd wanna do this. This isn't some random, uninformed statement he's making about Human Torch here

Chris Evans also talked about how Johnny's costume was more rundown compared to how it looked during the Fantastic Four Duology due to what Johnny's been through at this point

Don't see how this is relevant

Would it make sense to show these clips referencing the specific versions of the characters if they were just random ass variants? The intention is cut and dry here



This is the same Johnny Storm. No question

 

[Lonkitt]

Don't see how this is relevant. The characters obv come from those movies as a homage, and im willing to bet Elektra, Blade etc. were. But these are still variants with no proper confirmation on each. Highly doubt they would mercilessly kill the real Johnny exactly from those movies as a gag.

Pretty sure this one has a difference in costume so that they weren't jsut gonna fodderise the actual FF Johnny

Also, thats incorrect

See, a longer battle was actually planned...but then they realized Pyro has the perfect ability to counter Johnny...that and there was some behind the scenes complications with the strike

This isn't even headcanon this is literally what happened

 

[Lonkitt]

Like, innocently asking a question and you gotta try and respond with some condescending tone

I apologize, this reminded me of the NWH debacle where people were denying that the Spider-Men and villains the ones from the Raimi and TASM films so it invoked thing harsh response

 

[Jinx666]

Bro had to send 3 replies ofc

 

[Lonkitt]

Bro had to send 3 replies ofc

TBF, one of them was because I forgot to address one of your points and another was an apology for me crashing out a bit

 

[Jinx666]

I'

ALL of this can just refer to the fact that Chris Evans reprised his role as Johnny Storm. It doesn't mean he's not the exact variant from the one in the FF movies.

Actors can play the same variants. Hugh Jackman quite literally played multiple versions of Wolverine, while Henry Cavill also played a different one. Chris playing Human Torch as a nod to the fact he did in the Fox movies doesn't prove it was the EXACT same variant

Difference between the Raimi spidermen villains is that those were directly from their respective movies, recalling events from the movies and actively being shown its the same ones with the same Peters. In Deadpool and Wolverine however, we had cameos left and right from characters, with some of these characters already having been killed (like most the X men villains).

Alos yh, Wolverine Deadpool Human Torch had a slightly different costume in how the four logo was placed. Thats usually a subtle indicator its not the same variant

 

[Lonkitt]

ALL of this can just refer to the fact that Chris Evans reprised his role as Johnny Storm. It doesn't mean he's not a variant from the one in the FF movies obviously

Actors can play the same variants. Hugh Jackman quite literally played multiple versions of Wolverine, while Henry Cavill also played a different one. Chris playing Human Torch as a nod to the fact he did in the Fox movies doesn't prove it was the EXACT same variant

I totally get what you mean here with the variants, but it’s not quite the same

Not only are we shown the OG FOX Wolverine, but the film makes sure to emphasize the other variants played by Jackman in comparison to the OG. With Human Torch, with have ton of statements referring to this as being the one right from the FOX Duology. The art book statements, how Reynolds refers to him, and the discussion from Evans on the suit he’s wearing and how it’s changed compared to the other films points to this being the one we know from the FF films

Plus, I think the art book saying “OG Johnny Storm” or “Pyro from X2 and Last Stand”, while specifically saying Toad for example is a variant is also quite telling here

 

[Jinx666]

Scans to the art book saying it?

Cause yh im not totally sure why they'd make Johnny's suit only slightly different compared to what it was in the original movies if it wasn't an extremely similar variant

 

[Lonkitt]

Scans to the art book saying it?

Cause yh im not totally sure why they'd make Johnny's suit only slightly different compared to what it was in the original movies if it wasn't an extremely similar variant

I wouldn’t call the suit difference a point against it being canon. Weird comparison here, but contrary to popular belief, the Raimi Spidey suits changed with each film. And I don’t mean they made a new version because the other one was busted, there actually are slight design tweaks made with each one. Just the same, NWH has a new Raimi Suit. I don’t think an updated suit is too bizarre. Evans even addresses the suit thing in one of my links above

As for the scans, I believe @RoTt35 has them

 

[RoTt35]

The artbook clarifies which characters are variants and which are originals. The Human Torch, Pyro, and Sabretooth are the originals while the other henchmen of Cassandra are all variants

Scans to the art book saying it?

Here's a video showing the artbook

 

[Jinx666]

The FF suit didnt change from the 1st and 2nd movie, meanwhile for some reason Johnny in DW has an altered suit. The 4 Logo isnt in the right place, theres no gloves, different boots etc.

If they wanted to make him the same then why would they opt for giving him a different suit, while failing to give any explanations as to why. It also does kinda make sense for it to be a 'variant' johnny writing wise, because why would you kill off the exact variant of that character as opposed to making a different one (much like how they foddered the illuminati and characters like Xavier). Shock value sure, but feels like they added it so they could imply subtly its not the exact same Johnny. Its not like they couldnt have made an exact replica of the suit either

 

[Jinx666]

The artbook clarifies which characters are variants and which are originals. The Human Torch, Pyro, and Sabretooth are the originals while the other henchmen of Cassandra are all variants

Here's a video showing the artbook

Im not really sure it properly clarifies that they're the same unless im looking at the wrong page. Outright at least. Im only seeing the 2 human torch ones. Chris Evans reprising the role as a whole is like how Hugh Jackman reprised as Wolverine, but was ultimately a different variant. Felt like more of a cameo of playing the character, but clearly implied to be a separate variant than the movie one due to the subtle costume differences.

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

Im not really sure it properly clarifies that they're the same unless im looking at the wrong page. Outright at least. Im only seeing the 2 human torch ones. Chris Evans reprising the role as a whole is like how Hugh Jackman reprised as Wolverine, but was ultimately a different variant. Felt like more of a cameo of playing the character, but clearly implied to be a separate variant than the movie one due to the subtle costume differences.

Except it's actually stated that the exact Wolverine who just teamed up with Deadpool was stated to be a variant from another timeline, as the movie even acknowledged the dead Logan in the opening scene

 

[Jinx666]

Except it's actually stated that the exact Wolverine who just teamed up with Deadpool was stated to be a variant from another timeline, as the movie even acknowledged the dead Logan in the opening scene

Yeah i know. No trouble understanding that.

They didnt explain it like that for Human Torch, however given they were in the mindset of not ******** on legacy characters (Different to a character like Toad or smthn who we dont care gets killed), and the fact they made Johnny's suit altered, definitely feels like this is just a variant of Chris Evans HT that was used to fodder off as a joke, as opposed to being the real one from the old Fox movies. Like, it most definitely feels like its a variant much like mostly every other character, so idk why we really want to say its the exact Johnny rather than instead comparing it to him at the least, since theres no direct confirmation either way.

 

[Lonkitt]

The FF suit didnt change from the 1st and 2nd movie, meanwhile for some reason Johnny in DW has an altered suit. The 4 Logo isnt in the right place, theres no gloves, different boots etc.

Not changing between those two films doesn’t mean it’s law that the FOX FF suits can never change at all. You have to also take into account the gap in time between FF1 and FF2 is MUCH lesser than the gap in time between FF2 and D&W, so a lot can change in that time, especially since Johnny tells us Reed eventually discovered the Void and accurately deduced how it functioned based off of his studies. Assuming the FF got new suits isn’t a huge, lore breaking detail, more so when you recall Victor designed their original suits (with the FF just slapping a “4” on them afterwards)

I’m sorry, but the strongest piece of evidence you got right now is a costume, and that doesn’t stack up well against several statements

If they wanted to make him the same then why would they opt for giving him a different suit, while failing to give any explanations as to why. It also does kinda make sense for it to be a 'variant' johnny writing wise, because why would you kill off the exact variant of that character as opposed to making a different one (much like how they foddered the illuminati and characters like Xavier). Shock value sure, but feels like they added it so they could imply subtly its not the exact same Johnny. Its not like they couldnt have made an exact replica of the suit either

Hey, I would’ve preferred if Johnny survived too. But Jinx, you seem to be ignoring the link I sent that explicitly has Evans mention why Pyro and Johnny didn’t have a longer, evenly matched fight scene

You seem to be thinking there’s no possible way they would ever kill the original Johnny like this. And you haven’t addressed my other link where Evans talks about the new suit

Again. A new suit and “idk why they would kill him like this” doesn’t stack up to the statements made by official material and crew members

 

[Jinx666]

Not changing between those two films doesn’t mean it’s law that the FOX FF suits can never change at all. You have to also take into account the gap in time between FF1 and FF2 is MUCH lesser than the gap in time between FF2 and D&W, so a lot can change in that time, especially since Johnny tells us Reed eventually discovered the Void and accurately deduced how it functioned based off of his studies. Assuming the FF got new suits isn’t a huge, lore breaking detail, more so when you recall Victor designed their original suits (with the FF just slapping a “4” on them afterwards)

I’m sorry, but the strongest piece of evidence you got right now is a costume, and that doesn’t stack up well against several statements

Why would they change if theres no explanation as to why they did?

Like, theres literally no other reason other than they were trying to hint at it being a variant.

Hey, I would’ve preferred if Johnny survived too. But Jinx, you seem to be ignoring the link I sent that explicitly has Evans mention why Pyro and Johnny didn’t have a longer, evenly matched fight scene

You seem to be thinking there’s no possible way they would ever kill the original Johnny like this. And you haven’t addressed my other link where Evans talks about the new suit

Again. A new suit and “idk why they would kill him like this” doesn’t stack up to the statements made by official material and crew members

Well you do send like, 4 posts in one lol. And I could easily say 'my arguments better than yours' just as much to you in the same regard. Nothing either of us has is concrete, but theres quite literally no other reason as to why they'd only slightly change up the suit if they weren't implying its a similar but separate variant of Johnny. Id argue a lot of your points are also the characters talking more about Chris Evans reprising the role as Human Torch as opposed to the exact variant he was in the movies.

You're gonna have to quote the exact thing, cause im not seeing anything about a new suit. And even then, if he's just talking about what it felt like to wear a new suit on set, as opposed to an actual lore reason as to why HT is wearing an altered F4 costume then it doesn't really prove anything.

 

[Lonkitt]

Why would they change if theres no explanation as to why they did?

Like, theres literally no other reason other than they were trying to hint at it being a variant.

Raimi Spidey's NWH suit is different from his first three ones and it isn't explained at all. By your logic, he's a variant too

Not every new suit needs an explanation or else you're gonna find a lot more "plot holes" in the MCU

....And we do have an explanation for Johnny's new suit soooo....

And I'll just share it here in case you aren't catching it

"Primarily because where we find Johnny, he's meant to be a little more rundown, so the costume didn't have to be pristine," he explains. "Those first two movies, that's when Marvel was really still trying to find their footing. So everything had to be very precise and had a lot of meetings, a lot of opinions. This was a little more like, 'Yeah, we know it. We've seen it.'"

Saying the new suit was there for no other reason than to make him a "variant" is unfounded and disingenuous

Well you do send like, 4 posts in one lol. And I could easily say 'my arguments better than yours' just as much to you in the same regard. Nothing either of us has is concrete, but theres quite literally no other reason as to why they'd only slightly change up the suit if they weren't implying its a similar but separate variant of Johnny. Id argue a lot of your points are also the characters talking more about Chris Evans reprising the role as Human Torch as opposed to the exact variant he was in the movies.

Saying nothing is concrete is really questionable. Official material and people who literally wrote and produced the movie are telling us this is the OG Johnny Storm. Thats more concrete than a theory about a costume being made to establish someone as a variant

Also, what do you mean characters talking about Chris Evans reprising his role? I'm talking about writers, producers, actors, and official material referencing this as the OG Johnny Storm

 

[Jinx666]

Raimi Spidey's NWH suit is different from his first three ones and it isn't explained at all. By your logic, he's a variant too

Not every new suit needs an explanation or else you're gonna find a lot more "plot holes" in the MCU

....And we do have an explanation for Johnny's new suit soooo....

And I'll just share it here in case you aren't catching it

"Primarily because where we find Johnny, he's meant to be a little more rundown, so the costume didn't have to be pristine," he explains. "Those first two movies, that's when Marvel was really still trying to find their footing. So everything had to be very precise and had a lot of meetings, a lot of opinions. This was a little more like, 'Yeah, we know it. We've seen it.'"

Saying the new suit was there for no other reason than to make him a "variant" is unfounded and disingenuous

No, cause theres actual confirmation its the same Raimi Spiderman, unlike with HT where we only seem to be assuming its the same because they talk about Chris reprising the role of HT, which doesnt not confirm it.

Yeah, thats referring to the fact Johnny was stranded in the whateveritscalled so his outfit was obviously more rugged. Maybe that explains the boots. However it doesnt explain why the 4 is in a separate place and theres different detail in the black stripes. Its hardly an improvement anyway, but i feel Chris Evans' input doesn't necessarily stretch to the writers lore either.

The new suit design was most definitely for people who gaf about that version of Johnny to have an excuse to call it a variant. They even went through the trouble to add that postcredit cause they knew people would be annoyed at the decision to just kill off Johnny like that.

Im not catching the quote cause as if im reading the whole article on a dodgy website lbr. Ctrl F wasnt working for me either

Saying nothing is concrete is really questionable. Official material and people who literally wrote and produced the movie are telling us this is the OG Johnny Storm. Thats more concrete than a theory about a costume being made to establish someone as a variant

Also, what do you mean characters talking about Chris Evans reprising his role? I'm talking about writers, producers, actors, and official material referencing this as the OG Johnny Storm

It isnt questionable. If theres no direct confirmation, then we're going by speculation. We just happen to be on opposing sides but theres no direct word saying its the same Johnny and not a variant either.

Like, no matter how much more 'evidence' either side has, theres nothing direct and confirmed, so there is always room for questioning.

 

[Lonkitt]

The post-credits scene trying to keep people from being pissed off doesn’t support your variant angle. Actually, it’s more in favour of the reality that this is the OG FOX Johnny. The point of that scene was to show Johnny really DID say all those vulgar things about Cassandra which the audience initially assumed was made up by Deadpool. Not once does this support him being a variant

Idk what to tell you without repeating myself again and again. You’re saying none of this is direct but stuff like “OG Johnny Storm” and “it’s hard to say goodbye to Chris Evans’ Johnny Storm” are not at all vague. The latter statement actually holds no water if this was just a variant we met for the first time. It just feels weird that we have multiple statements that are telling us "Yep, this is FOX FF Duology Johnny" and you think that holds no water against a new costume and your skepticism about them pissing people off

I'm sorry there aren't giant neon signs outling every detail on how he got his new costume, but you've really got nothing surefire here


We're gonna have to agree to disagree because this is getting exhausting, us throwing the same points back at each other

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

The point of that scene was to show Johnny really DID say all those vulgar things about Cassandra which the audience initially assumed was made up by Deadpool. Not once does this support him being a variant

I hated how Wade snitched on him to get him killed though

 

[Lonkitt]

I hated how Wade snitched on him to get him killed though

RIP the the MVP of FOX’s FF Duology

 

[Jinx666]

The post-credits scene trying to keep people from being pissed off doesn’t support your variant angle. Actually, it’s more in favour of the reality that this is the OG FOX Johnny. The point of that scene was to show Johnny really DID say all those vulgar things about Cassandra which the audience initially assumed was made up by Deadpool. Not once does this support him being a variant

Deadpool was directly telling us why he cucked Johnny like that, fourth wall, cause he knew people would be complaining abt how Johnny got foddered. Clearly a gag mixed with damage control.

It just tells us the writers knew what their choices were with Johnny in this movie could be controversial, so they spun it into a gag, and also gave costume hitns that its not the exact same Johnny Storm from the movies

Idk what to tell you without repeating myself again and again. You’re saying none of this is direct but stuff like “OG Johnny Storm” and “it’s hard to say goodbye to Chris Evans’ Johnny Storm” are not at all vague. The latter statement actually holds no water if this was just a variant we met for the first time. It just feels weird that we have multiple statements that are telling us "Yep, this is FOX FF Duology Johnny" and you think that holds no water against a new costume and your skepticism about them pissing people off

I'm sorry there aren't giant neon signs outling every detail on how he got his new costume, but you've really got nothing surefire here

There isnt neon signs whatsoever, but theres only one reason why it would be slightly altered like that without any canon explanation. It implies its a variant

You're overselling your point. Theres nothing concrete about this whatsoever, and just because hes played by Chris Evans doesn't mean the variant is the exact same. Actors can play their own variants.
Chris Evans IS the OG Johnny Storm, as his OG actor, but that again, does not mean its the exact same Johnny Storm

We're gonna have to agree to disagree because this is getting exhausting, us throwing the same points back at each other

We are but its just weird on the Fox profile to not even have a note or smthn saying that the DW version can at least be 'comparable' rather than acting like its 100% confirmed they're the same

 

[Lonkitt]

Deadpool was directly telling us why he cucked Johnny like that, fourth wall, cause he knew people would be complaining abt how Johnny got foddered. Clearly a gag mixed with damage control

Um….no, that’s not at all true…

That’s completely headcanon. That post-credits speech by Johnny was actually what convinced Evans to return. I’m not joking, that was what sold him. This was written before they even got Evans on board. ALSO you’re once more ignoring how the complications of Johnny’s scenes being filmed before Pyro’s caused complications. Again…I linked an article above where Evans brings up how the SAG-AFTA strike happening between the filming of those scenes cut down what was originally supposed to be a longer fight scene

Your damage control angle makes absolutely no sense because:

A) Johnny wasn’t supposed to be fodderized. Why would they need to scramble to say "Oh shit, people are gonna be mad!" when they had already planned the post-credits scene prior to the fight getting cut down?

B) I....really doubt Levy and Reynolds felt they needed to desperately save face for Johnny dying like that. Crazy thought, but sometimes, jokes can be jokes. In this case, Johnny saying extremely vulgar things about Cassandra was the joke. It ain't rocket science


Its a gag. Not a gag mixed with damage control. I mean, if it was damage control wouldn't you assume that the star character known for breaking the fourth wall would tell us he's a variant...? Like at any point?

Your theory doesn't hold up

There isnt neon signs whatsoever, but theres only one reason why it would be slightly altered like that without any canon explanation. It implies its a variant

Headcanon. Also, the MCU gives characters, both from its own verse and other franchises new outfits all the time with zero explanation more often than note. You really gotta let go of the costume thing

You're overselling your point. Theres nothing concrete about this whatsoever, and just because hes played by Chris Evans doesn't mean the variant is the exact same. Actors can play their own variants.
Chris Evans IS the OG Johnny Storm, as his OG actor, but that again, does not mean its the exact same Johnny Storm

I'm not overselling it, I'm saying it how it is. In the same book that calls Johnny and Pyro the originals, they call Toad a variant. This really isn't complicated. I'm stating that the implication was that they are the originals we saw. There's nothing TO oversell, because its so damn straightforward

We are but its just weird on the Fox profile to not even have a note or smthn saying that the DW version can at least be 'comparable' rather than acting like its 100% confirmed they're the same

Well, we already had a revision that covered these statements and used it for Pyro's new key, so there's that, for one. Again, more points to this being the OG FOX Johnny. You've expressed your narrative, but it really doesn't hold up unless you can dig up some statements, claims, etc.

Can we drop this convo now? We've expressed our points and its getting exhausting

 

[Jinx666]

Its only exhausting if you're gonna quote repost constantly and write essays.

So heres the abridge

Very clearly damage control. You think ppl would have received well to Human Torch dying like that if it wasn't mixed in as a gag.
What you're saying is also a theory and i can reflect everything back at you. At least i can admit that theres no direct confirmation either way however.
Calling Chris Evans as an actor the OG Johnny Storm doesnt mean its the same variant, since actors can play their variants

Respond or dont but yh like, convos get exhausting when neither side can look at it critically.

 

[Lonkitt]

So heres the abridge

Wh-

How is what I'm saying also theory....? I didn't make up the stories about Evans being convinced to come back because of the post-credits dialogue or the SAG-AFTA filming complications with the Pyro fight, thats literally been talked about in articles. I keep bringing up actual sources, you can't call that theory

 

[Lonkitt]

Side note. I'm not sure if you know this, but FOX and Marvel Studios doesn't really care about pissing off fans...they've been doing that for awhile

 

[Jinx666]

Wh-

How is what I'm saying also theory....? I didn't make up the stories about Evans being convinced to come back because of the post-credits dialogue or the SAG-AFTA filming complications with the Pyro fight, thats literally been talked about in articles. I keep bringing up actual sources, you can't call that theory

Because theres no direct confirmation and you're assuming from those comments its the fact, rather than any direct statement of 'Its the same johnny from those movies'. Since theres clearly evidence and logic behind it being a variant too.

 

[Lonkitt]

Because theres no direct confirmation and you're assuming from those comments its the fact, rather than any direct statement of 'Its the same johnny from those movies'. Since theres clearly evidence and logic behind it being a variant too.

There is in fact direct confirmation about Evans joining because of that post-credits monologue and I've already linked the article where Evans talks about why the Pyro fight was cut down

You objectively cannot call those unconfirmed

Those are aspects that immediately debunk your damage control angle

 

[Jinx666]

There is in fact direct confirmation about Evans joining because of that post-credits monologue and I've already linked the article where Evans talks about why the Pyro fight was cut down

You're talking about 'Evans', instead of the actual character. Again, actors can play the variants of their character. In a movie abt multiple variants of characters making huge cameos, then its not farfetch'd

You objectively cannot call those unconfirmed

I can yeah. Its not direct confirmation whatsoever.

Those are aspects that immediately debunk your damage control angle

There aren't. Its so obvious the writers knew what would happen with Johnny getting killed. Stupid ass writing decisions can make or break a movie, so Deadpool had to turn it into a gag with the Evans part.

Theres 0 way someone in that writing room didnt consider the way Johnny was took out wouldnt piss audience members off

 

[Lonkitt]

You're talking about 'Evans', instead of the actual character. Again, actors can play the variants of their character. In a movie abt multiple variants of characters making huge cameos, then its not farfetch'd

I can yeah. Its not direct confirmation whatsoever.

There aren't. Its so obvious the writers knew what would happen with Johnny getting killed. Stupid ass writing decisions can make or break a movie, so Deadpool had to turn it into a gag with the Evans part.

Theres 0 way someone in that writing room didnt consider the way Johnny was took out wouldnt piss audience members off

...I'm sorry, are we sure we're talking about the same thing right now? I feel like I keep bringing up IRL things that have been reported about the behind the scenes process and you keep posing it as if I'm using that as my primary argument for this being FOX Johnny

I genuinely do not think we are talking about the same thing here. I'm talking about why the saving face angle doesn't make sense based on behind the scenes knowledge the crew has confirmed for us through articles

Like I can't actually tell if you're getting confused about the topic or have just resorted to stonewalling the meaning behind what I'm saying here

 

[Lonkitt]

When I say that it is confirmed that we know why Evans joined and that the Pyro fight was cut down, I am not saying "these are directly telling us that this is FOX Johnny". I am saying that these are real things associated with the behind the scenes process, and they particularly don't support the "oh shit people will get mad, damage control" angle

I'm really starting to feel like you've been skimming my posts

 

[Jinx666]

...I'm sorry, are we sure we're talking about the same thing right now? I feel like I keep bringing up IRL things that have been reported about the behind the scenes process and you keep posing it as if I'm using that as my primary argument for this being FOX Johnny

All you've been talking abt is quotes and stuff yeah. Theres nothing direct

I genuinely do not think we are talking about the same thing here. I'm talking about why the saving face angle doesn't make sense based on behind the scenes knowledge the crew has confirmed for us through articles

The Writers room changes on a whim. It doesn't mean they didn't think what they went with through.

Like I can't actually tell if you're getting confused about the topic or have just resorted to stonewalling the meaning behind what I'm saying here

Neither. You're just surprised im not agreeing with you

 

[Lonkitt]

All you've been talking abt is quotes and stuff yeah. Theres nothing direct

Jinx, no. I’ve been explaining why those quotes matter above, I’m not just linking them with no context

The Writers room changes on a whim. It doesn't mean they didn't think what they went with through.

I never said nothing changed. I actually said that things did change, like the Pyro fight

Neither. You're just surprised im not agreeing with you

Holy shit, not even close. Do you know what site this is? People disagree with me all the time, if I couldn’t comprehend that, I wouldn’t have spent so much time on this wiki

I’m surprised because your responses feel like they haven’t been reading much of what I’m saying. You’ve boiled down what I’ve said to “just quotes”, when I’ve been explaining why those quotes matter to this conversation

I’ve tried time and time again to explain why I’m bringing all of this up but you keep misinterpreting what I’m saying. I don’t wanna claim you’re twisting my points into something else, but it genuinely feels like that at this point


I’m just going to disengage because this is getting way too repetitive and I’d rather us not bloat this thread with more of the same thing. All I ask is that you don’t reply to me further on this subject because I’ve spent enough energy writing paragraph after paragraph explaining myself

 

[Jinx666]

Yh ive seen all your quotes. Nothing concrete and more you drawing conclusions from quotes that could just as easily be eeferring to how Chris Evans played the OG Johnny Storm, not that its confirmed that its the same Johnny. Even with the costume thing, thats clearly referring to the rugged add-ons of Johnny being stranded in the whateveritscalled place, not his literal jumpsuit design being different to his Fox one

Okay. Writers were aware that killing Johnny like that wouldn't sit right with audiences, and decided to play it into a gag in the movie that makes it make sense. In that semblance, its fair to assume they'd also try and find a way to show it was a variant to the audience. Hence the different jumpsuit. Theres whole youtube comment sections talking abt it. Its a speculation sure, ive said nothings confirmed too, but at least i can admit that

Okay? Im not stonewalling you just cause i havent went 'oh i concede fair enough'. I just dont agree you've got sufficient evidence to say its 100% the real Johnny and there are reasons against it.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yh

Why is it that every time I tell people on this forum “I’d rather not talk about this anymore, we’ve both made our stances and disagree, please don’t respond to me directly anymore”, people will do it anyways?

I literally just said I’m disengaging, please don’t reply to me directly

 

[Golden_Void]

Me personally, I'm ignoring anyone who makes a stupid claim with no evidence and considers attacking my actual evidence as proof of their argument.

 

[Jinx666]

Why is it that every time I tell people on this forum “I’d rather not talk about this anymore, we’ve both made our stances and disagree, please don’t respond to me directly anymore”, people will do it anyways?

I literally just said I’m disengaging, please don’t reply to me directly

???
Dont type stuff then expect the other person to not respond? It's not down to me to just give up because you're done lmao

If you dont want to reply, then dont reply, simple.

Its still not confirmed its the same Johnny and could easily be a variant before we're now...adding it to the MCU verse

 

[Lonkitt]

Or, here's a crazy thought, just don't respond to the person when they politely ask you to not directly reply to them anymore. I never told you to give up, I just asked you not to directly respond to me about it anymore

I'm not asking for much here