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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Antvasima said:
Well, it is certainly extremely heavily foreshadowed in a metafictional manner currently, including by repeatedly directly addressing the powerscaling community within the story, so I thought that we needed to make a comment regarding the issue. My apologies for any potential inconvenience. 🙏
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Antvasima said:
Al Ewing seems to be the first writer in many years to not write Thor as either a hollow power fantasy or in a severely degrading manner, and a part of his work with cleaning up Thor's character has been by addressing various mischaracterisations and bad fan expectations of the character.

Also, I explicitly mentioned Ewing and Straczynski as exceptions who have written Thor properly, and if Marvel decides to get rid of and replace Thor, it would likely be an editorial decision that Al would have to adapt to.

Well, Marvel did try to replace Thor previously with a more politically correct female version, and only seemed to relent because of fan uproar, and again, Thor really has usually been treated as a depowered hollow caricature of himself that is humiliated as much as possible for quite a long time, and Brian Bendis half-joked in an interview that he is uncomfortable with the character because of his Jewish background, and the Garth Ennis parody character of Thor, Storm front, was a literal Nazi, and Nick Spencer made Thor into a follower of the ultranationalist supremacist Hydra copy of Captain America, so that unfortunately seems to be how quite a lot of professional writers view Thor.
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Just a note that according to the preview solicitations that I have seen for the Hulk's and Storm's respective comic books, it seems quite likely that each of those characters will somehow beat Thor in a few months, either because the writers want to show that they are the bestest power fantasies ever, or due to projecting various above-mentioned personal neuroses onto Thor that were never intended to be an issue for this version of the character, or just to severely troll the people who like Thor, or all of the above in combination.

Personally I think that Marvel's editorial department and writers should leave Thor alone instead of continuously going out of their way to depower, degrade, distort, and humiliate him in one way or another.

Also, in Storm's case at least she is usually (at least before Jonathan Hickman butchered the X-Men by turning all of them into villain protagonists) supposed to be a relatively well-intended character, not somebody who pointlessly fights against other heroes, even though the Hulk has almost deteriorated into a villain protagonist over the years. 🙏
 
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ObberGobb said:
What kind of feats do the Mid Heralds characters have themselves?
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they scales to Thor and Jane foster's feat.
ObberGobb said:
I think its weird for all of the feats for Mid Heralds to come from a High Herald, and we just assume the High 3-A feats are holding back but the other ones aren't.
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All Heralds holds back but High Heralds holds back considerably compare to others.
 
Excellence616 said:
they scales to Thor and Jane foster's feat.

All Heralds holds back but High Heralds holds back considerably compare to others.
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But my point is how do we determine that when Thor performs a Universe level feat, he did that feat when operating at the level he does against Mid Heralds as opposed to it being his full power? Splitting "Heralds" into three things is one thing, but I don't think we should look at Thor and say "this feat is when he is being a Mid Herald, but this feat is him being a High Herald" unless we have specific criteria for how we determine that. Otherwise, it seems arbitrary.

I think we should primarily try to use feats performed by Mid Heralds themselves, and supplement those with supporting feats from Mid Heralds.

Can we get a list of Mid Heralds. Not just characters we have a Mid Herald end for, like Thor and Silver, but characters who peak at Mid Herald. Frankly, I wonder about the necessity of it, since I don't know if there is any indication that "Mid Heralds" like Gladiator and Blue Marvel are substantially below Thor and Silver Surfer. I'm not definitively saying that its wrong to have them, but I would want clear explanations for every "Herald" character on why they are the level they are at (i.e. why Namor is considered Low Herald despite fighting the Hulk, or why Blue Marvel's comparisons to Thor only make him Mid Herald)
 
ObberGobb said:
But my point is how do we determine that when Thor performs a Universe level feat, he did that feat when operating at the level he does against Mid Heralds as opposed to it being his full power? Splitting "Heralds" into three things is one thing, but I don't think we should look at Thor and say "this feat is when he is being a Mid Herald, but this feat is him being a High Herald" unless we have specific criteria for how we determine that. Otherwise, it seems arbitrary.

I think we should primarily try to use feats performed by Mid Heralds themselves, and supplement those with supporting feats from Mid Heralds.
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Yeah, i agree. We need feat performed by a Mid Herald
ObberGobb said:
Can we get a list of Mid Heralds. Not just characters we have a Mid Herald end for, like Thor and Silver, but characters who peak at Mid Herald. Frankly, I wonder about the necessity of it, since I don't know if there is any indication that "Mid Heralds" like Gladiator and Blue Marvel are substantially below Thor and Silver Surfer.
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Kallark is definitely High herald level. Blue Marvel was defeated by Sentry despite Bob being weak to Antimatter. He is also compared to Thor and Hulk.
 
Excellence616 said:
Kallark is definitely High herald level. Blue Marvel was defeated by Sentry despite Bob being weak to Antimatter. He is also compared to Thor and Hulk.
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But why does being compared to Thor and Hulk make him Mid Herald? Losing to Sentry also doesn't seem that big of an anti-feat, since Sentry is shown to be among the highest of even the upper echelon of Heralds.

Excellence616 said:
Yeah, i agree. We need feat performed by a Mid Herald
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Could you separate your sandbox into feats performed by Mid Heralds vs. feats performed by High Heralds with a Mid Herald end? I can also start looking for some Mid Herald feats. I'm also curious about how Nova and Annihilus fight into this. Their tier seems pretty heavily outdated since they are still 4-B. Is that intentional, or should they be considered Mid Heralds?
 
Antvasima said:
Just a note that according to the preview solicitations that I have seen for the Hulk's and Storm's respective comic books, it seems quite likely that each of those characters will somehow beat Thor in a few months, either because the writers want to show that they are the bestest power fantasies ever, or due to projecting various above-mentioned personal neuroses onto Thor that were never intended to be an issue for this version of the character, or just to severely troll the people who like Thor, or all of the above in combination.

Personally I think that Marvel's editorial department and writers should leave Thor alone instead of continuously going out of their way to depower, degrade, distort, and humiliate him in one way or another.

Also, in Storm's case at least she is usually (at least before Jonathan Hickman butchered the X-Men by turning all of them into villain protagonists) supposed to be a relatively well-intended character, not somebody who pointlessly fights against other heroes, even though the Hulk has almost deteriorated into a villain protagonist over the years. 🙏
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Wait, that was Hickman? I thought that happened after he left the book.
 
ObberGobb said:
But why does being compared to Thor and Hulk make him Mid Herald? Losing to Sentry also doesn't seem that big of an anti-feat, since Sentry is shown to be among the highest of even the upper echelon of Heralds.


Could you separate your sandbox into feats performed by Mid Heralds vs. feats performed by High Heralds with a Mid Herald end? I can also start looking for some Mid Herald feats. I'm also curious about how Nova and Annihilus fight into this. Their tier seems pretty heavily outdated since they are still 4-B. Is that intentional, or should they be considered Mid Heralds?
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This might be a hot take, but I feel like Universe level or Star level is the most consistent tier for Mid Heralds (3-C's) in terms of number of feats. Galaxy level feats seem a lot harder to come by, but maybe that's just me.
 
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
Wait, that was Hickman? I thought that happened after he left the book.
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Kieron Gillen gleefully and enthusiastically turned the X-Men even morally nastier than Jonathan Hickman (especially during the Sinister storyline, in which he seemed to get ecstatic from coming up with as ridiculously vile and amoral power-tripping transgressions as possible), while raving about directing a "symphony", but Hickman started the process with enthusiastic bloodsports to the death in front of cheering colosseum-style spectators, diehard supremacist separatism, casually welcoming many people morally comparable to the worst people in real world human history to their team and collaborating with them without a shrug, mind-****** anybody in their way including benevolent superheroes such as Reed Richards, and so onwards.

However, to be fair, this did not start under Hickman. The White Queen Emma Frost and Mystique have casually ran over the moral event horizon to perform transgressions of a scale that can never ever be forgiven long before the Krakoa storyline, including within "X-Men Black" (Within which the White Queen forced an entire building full of people to **** each other to death, if I remember correctly) and the X-Men have still casually welcomed them back to their team in their separatist supremacist mindset of anything is acceptable as long as you're a mutant, whereas completely outmatched brainwashed human goons should be systematically slaughtered en masse.

And of course, Marvel Comics as a whole runs on a moral system of "might makes right" in this regard, as the most extreme villains are never ever remotely proportionately punished for their enormous crimes against innocent people (Doctor Doom blew up an entire universe full of people out of petty spite once, for example, but he is a "cool" and invincible Gary Stu right? And Jim Starlin has enthusiastically admitted that he sympathises with Thanos, who is an omnicidal morally nihilistic supremacist psychopath), and they are allowed to just perform them over and over and over again without being stopped, whereas an easy road to hell waits almost all of the regular people. 🙏
 
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Someone made this crap CRT to have Galactus scale to Ultramen
vsbattles.com

Rise of Ultraman major revisions needed.

I'm assuming I don't need to explain much why the Marvel Ultraman page is insanely out of date, right? Marvel 616 canonicity, Galactus battles between Ultraman Taro and Ultraman OG, Avengers scaling etc etc.
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
For Heralds, i would be removing some of their tier:

I would remove Childlike Hulk 3-C, Remove Devil Hulk 3-C. I will also remove Savage She Low 1-C, she would be 3-C, far higher. Also, remove Terrax Low 1-C since it was just based on statement, removing Sentry's 3-C and 5-B, The Phoenix 5 that are Low 1-C would also return to 3-C but will have far higher.

There may be more
 
Kinda freeing seeing DeMatteis' Marvel Cosmology exactly where I always thought they'd be (though funnily enough if the Tiering Revisions didn't happen we could've actually had a contender for the most powerful Tier 0s on the site with them because of their scaling and what they scale to... sadge) .

IMO though, If any MCU canon movie/series is going to try and connect with the comics it's going to be the upcoming Beyond the Spider-Verse. They already made a direct reference to the comics, so it's one of the only series I see actually doing so.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Kinda freeing seeing DeMatteis' Marvel Cosmology exactly where I always thought they'd be (though funnily enough if the Tiering Revisions didn't happen we could've actually had a contender for the most powerful Tier 0s on the site with them because of their scaling and what they scale to... sadge) .
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where can i see the thread for this?
 
Question, is it fine if I use marvel mangaverse to support an ability for main 616 characters? I have other instances from 616 to use so it's not as if i'm basing entirely on it.
 
The mangaverse does not seem to be compatible with or similar to the mainstream continuity. 🙏
 
What do you want to do much more specifically? 🙏
 
I've recently been catching up with some comics I had left behind and I'd like to give my two cents, just for the sake of the discussion.
Blood Hunt, the whole event, was interesting but also kind of a mixbag. It felt super long but at the same time rather short, it begins very strongly but also ends abruptly, with little elaboration on the new characters.

The current volume of Spider-Man started very weakly, I would say (already in 2022) and the whole tango of the Death God, the other universe, Limbo and Osborn sin's shenanigans didn't really click on me, either for how over the top and out of place they were and also how quickly they have been concluded. I liked Gang War more, probably because it centered around something more relatable and in tune with Spidey's themes, as well as some interesting character developments and interactions between him and Tombstone. Of the whole supernatural nonsense, Rek-Rap was fun, although he grew annoying on me rather quickly, while the management of Chasm/Ben felt relly weird and kinda wasted. Kraven was interesting, though.
 
Say, since we had a similar discussion on Thor, I've been meaning to ask: has Marvel retired Frank Castle? I checked the Marvel Wiki, and I don't think he's been relevant in the comics since that one run where he led the Hand. I specify comics because he's Rivals and is gonna show uo in the new Daredevil show.
 
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
Say, since we had a similar discussion on Thor, I've been meaning to ask: has Marvel retired Frank Castle? I checked the Marvel Wiki, and I don't think he's been relevant in the comics since that one run where he led the Hand. I specify comics because he's Rivals and is gonna show uo in the new Daredevil show.
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He's just in hell chilling. Marvel would never retire Punisher, he sells.
 
 
 
Okay. It is probably fine if you remove the mangaverse part in that case. 🙏
 
Never mind. I just saw the scans and do not think that they seem like convincing conclusive evidence at all. 🙏
 
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