Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Little Bump!

 

[Firestorm808]

With X being the power of regulars aliens, then X+1/10×(6X+42X+1X+10X+5X+W)=10X= Kevin where 6X is Aggregor's power, 22X is all active transformations of that time except Alien X, Way Big and Ultimates. 5X is 5 Ultimates, 1X is Humungousaur, W is Way Big. We divided all of them with 10 since 1/10 powers. 1 separate X outside is for Kevin's own scale.

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

 

[Hellformer]

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

We have used it previously and it is only used to determine Waybig's AP because he scales above Ultimates as well as Eatle's energy Amps

 

[Antvasima]

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

I don't remember it being forbidden, but you should probably ask some calc group members to make certain.

 

[Shadowslaya!]

CRT was so goated that ressurected Green and Reiner from grave

Real lol.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I don't remember it being forbidden, but you should probably ask some calc group members to make certain.

Yes, so this can finally be concluded

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

Fine to me too then.

 

[Hellformer]

Man this thread has almost been accepted. Can we conclude it already?

 

[Reiner04]

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

We have AP of several characters within the Ben 10 page accepted this way already. We concluded Ultimate Kevin strength this way which was equalised later on to UA Humungousaur to get his AP then we got Humng AP by reducing UA kevin/Humang AP 10 times.

Ben 10

For detailed information about this franchise, visit the Ben 10 Wiki. Ben 10 is a cartoon series created by Man of Action and Cartoon Network. Four series (Ben 10, Ben 10: Alien Force, Ben 10: Ultimate Alien and Ben 10: Omniverse) exist as well as several movies. The series follows the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Reiner04]

Man this thread has almost been accepted. Can we conclude it already?

U need atleast 2 staff votes, 1 is done, 1 is left.

 

[Hellformer]

U need atleast 2 staff votes, 1 is done, 1 is left.

I'm not sure if DDM agreed

 

[GeneralSol16]

I'm not sure if DDM agreed

He literally said that is fine yo him, lol

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I specifically meant Firestorm's interpretation is a fine interpretation by me.

 

[Hellformer]

I specifically meant Firestorm's interpretation is a fine interpretation by me.

He didn't give his interpretation on this page. Instead he asked whether the way of evaluation of AP is fine or not.

 

[GeneralSol16]

He didn't give his interpretation on this page. Instead he asked whether the way of evaluation of AP is fine or not.

As I got it, he agrees with the way of scaling Way Big's AP
Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Hellformer]

As I got it, he agrees with the way of scaling Way Big's AP

Only if Firestorm agrees

Maybe I'm missing something.

Yep

 

[Hellformer]

I'm not sure if our site allows this kind of AP scaling.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @LordGriffin1000 @Antvasima

I apologise for disturbing but...

We have used it previously and it is only used to determine Waybig's AP because he scales above Ultimates as well as Eatle's energy Amps

We have AP of several characters within the Ben 10 page accepted this way already. We concluded Ultimate Kevin strength this way which was equalised later on to UA Humungousaur to get his AP then we got Humng AP by reducing UA kevin/Humang AP 10 times.

Ben 10

For detailed information about this franchise, visit the Ben 10 Wiki. Ben 10 is a cartoon series created by Man of Action and Cartoon Network. Four series (Ben 10, Ben 10: Alien Force, Ben 10: Ultimate Alien and Ben 10: Omniverse) exist as well as several movies. The series follows the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Fine to me too then.

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Planck69 @Firestorm808

We seem to need your continued help here.

 

[Hellformer]

@DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Planck69 @Firestorm808

We seem to need your continued help here.

I appreciate your help

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

Fine to me too then.

To clarify, you are okay with the scaling formula that was proposed?

 

[Firestorm808]

OS and OVf Cast - 157.916666667 GigaFoe (1/10th of their UAF Ver, based on their scaling with Vilgax, who grow 10 tikes stronger since the Original series to Alien Force)

UAF Cast - 1.5763 TeraFoe. (1/6th of Ultimate Aggregor's AP and Dura, based on them scaling from the Andromeda Aliens)

Ultimate Echo Echo, Charged Up Eatle, Sir George and Ultimate Humongousaur - 15.763 TeraFoe (Ultimate Humungousaur was stated to be ten times Base Humongousaur)

• With X being the power of regulars aliens, then X+1/10×(6X+42X+1X+10X+5X+W)=10X= Kevin where 6X is Aggregor's power, 22X is all active transformations of that time except Alien X, Way Big and Ultimates. 5X is 5 Ultimates, 1X is Humungousaur, W is Way Big. We divided all of them with 10 since 1/10 powers. 1 separate X outside is for Kevin's own scale.
• Now evaluating this all we get;

W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
Way Big = W = 46X = 72.641682.
Base Way Big - 72.641682 TeraFoe.

Atomix, Dagon and Ultimate Way Big - >72.641682 (All stated to be stronger than Way Big)

Omniverse transformed Kevin is 17*classic aliens - 2.68458333333 TeraFoe in AP and 19*classic Aliens 3.00041666667 TeraFoe in durability.

Let's say that Ultimate Kevin did not include powers from the Alien X, Ultimates, and Way Big, what difference in values would we have?

Also, why is "1X is Humungousaur"

Where did 42X come from?

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Let's say that Ultimate Kevin did not include powers from the Alien X, Ultimates, and Way Big, what difference in values would we have?

Also, why is "1X is Humungousaur"

Humungousaur(base size) tends to be completely to a lot of Ben's regular aliens. He's lost to both Highbreed and Vilgax, which have fought and taken damage from Swampfire. Even Ultimate Swampfire was taking damage from the Andromeda.

Where did 42X come from?

I believe he meant 22X.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Let's say that Ultimate Kevin did not include powers from the Alien X, Ultimates, and Way Big, what difference in values would we have?

Also, why is "1X is Humungousaur"

Where did 42X come from?

Both @Reiner04 and @Hellformer explain this

since we are assuming 22;

W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
W=46X

These Ultimates include:
Ultimate Swampfire
Ultimate Bigchill
Ultimate Spidermonkey
Ultimate canonbolt

So change it to 4X

He could tank a hit from Ultimate Kevin.

I've counted aliens only upto the episode "Absolute Power part 2" because other ones were unlocked later on or by Ultimate Ben 10K

his physical strength is still same as regulars except the voice.

there were atleast 46 named aliens within ultimatetrix considering rough work of deleting some obtained maybe later in the series and alien X would be 42X.

X+1/10×(6X+42X+X+10X+5X+W)=10X
W/10=9X-6.4X=2.6X
W=26X

1. Humungousaur
2. Bigchill
3. Goop
4. Chromastone
5. Spidermonkey
6. Swampfire
7. Brainstorm
8. Echo echo
9. Jetray
10. Canonbolt
11. Diamondhead
12. Waybig (Counting seperately)
13. Upchuck
14. Fourarms
15. Ripjaws
16. Nanomech (Non relevant AP)
17. Ghostfreak
18. Waterhazard
19. NRG
20. Ampfibian
21. Armodrillo
22. Terraspin
23. Lodestar
24. Rath

Total unlocked aliens upto the episode "Absolute Power part 2"
24-1(Nanomech)-1(Waybig)=22

Chain Scaling​

• Humungousaur smashed an overloaded Entropy Pump portal hard enough to prevent the destruction of reality accross several light years. Aggregor implied of tanking that destruction while absorbing the Andromeda aliens. Hence concluding that UAF Aliens have an attack potency equivalent to destruction of several light years. The equivalent energy value would be 9.4578 TeraFoe or tier 4-B.
• Kevin's Absorption was stated to have 1/10th of the strength of whatever aliens he absorbed and later even by Aggregor. Ultimate Kevin had all the unlocked aliens in the Ultimatrix absorbed and was shown nearly on par with Ultimate Humungousaur.
• Assigning the attack potency of all base aliens as variable X (X=9.4578 TeraFoe), along with taking in account his own strength, 1/10th of Ultimate Aggregor's strength and 1/10th of 22 unlocked aliens that account for relevant AP in the Ultimatrix and 5 Ultimate aliens along with Alan. (excluding waybig and taking his strength as seperate due to large gap). Here's how we can figure out the unknown data: X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+20X+4X+W)=10X, W=37X=349.9387 TeraFoe (4-A) where W=Waybig's AP
• Classic aliens who are 1/10th of their UAF/OV counterparts due to Vilgax getting 10 times stronger in UAF, would scale to 0.94578 TeraFoe (4-B).
• Ultimate Humungousaur being 10x stronger than his base form would put his attack potency at 94.578 TeraFoe (4-A). This would also be the same tier as Ultimate Kevin and Ultimate Echo echo due to them being comparable to each other.
• Sir George with Ascalon should now scale to Ultimate Humungousaur level due to them being comparable to each other. And George wasn't holding back because in the prior fight he said that he would kill Ben in the next one (Amped Eatle would scale relative)
• Ultimate waybig and Dagon would be stronger than base waybig hence their AP should be rated as >349.9387 TeraFoe.

 

[Firestorm808]

Assigning the attack potency of all base aliens as variable X (X=9.4578 TeraFoe), along with taking in account his own strength, 1/10th of Ultimate Aggregor's strength and 1/10th of 22 unlocked aliens that account for relevant AP in the Ultimatrix and 5 Ultimate aliens along with Alan. (excluding waybig and taking his strength as seperate due to large gap). Here's how we can figure out the unknown data: X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+20X+4X+W)=10X, W=37X=349.9387 TeraFoe (4-A) where W=Waybig's AP

Formula Breakdown:

Ultimate Kevin = X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+20X+4X+W)

1. First X = Base Kevin and other Average Aliens
2. 6X = Ultimate Aggregor = 6 Aliens
3. 22X = Standard Omnitrix Aliens
   1. Humungousaur
   2. Bigchill
   3. Goop
   4. Chromastone
   5. Spidermonkey
   6. Swampfire
   7. Brainstorm
   8. Echo echo
   9. Jetray
   10. Canonbolt
   11. Diamondhead
   12. Upchuck
   13. Fourarms
   14. Ripjaws
   15. Ghostfreak
   16. Waterhazard
   17. NRG
   18. Ampfibian
   19. Armodrillo
   20. Terraspin
   21. Lodestar
   22. Rath
4. Second X = ?
5. 20X = ?
6. 4X = The Ultimates?
7. W = Waybig

 

[Reiner04]

Formula Breakdown:

Ultimate Kevin = X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+20X+4X+W)

1. First X = Base Kevin and other Average Aliens
2. 6X = Ultimate Aggregor = 6 Aliens
3. 22X = Standard Omnitrix Aliens
   1. Humungousaur
   2. Bigchill
   3. Goop
   4. Chromastone
   5. Spidermonkey
   6. Swampfire
   7. Brainstorm
   8. Echo echo
   9. Jetray
   10. Canonbolt
   11. Diamondhead
   12. Upchuck
   13. Fourarms
   14. Ripjaws
   15. Ghostfreak
   16. Waterhazard
   17. NRG
   18. Ampfibian
   19. Armodrillo
   20. Terraspin
   21. Lodestar
   22. Rath
4. Second X = ?
5. 20X = ?
6. 4X = The Ultimates?
7. W = Waybig

tge calc above assume UA Echo Echo physical strength equals UA Humungousaur which is not the case, thus is bit wrong. Updated calc is:
X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+10X+5X+W)=10X
W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
W=46X

6X is Aggregor, 10X is for UA Humungousaur, 5X is for Ultimates, X is for Alan.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There are 6 ultimates

1) Humungosaur

2) Swampfire

3) Spidermonkey

4) Echo Echo

5) Cannonbolt

6) Big Chill

Why 5 are counted?

 

[Reiner04]

There are 6 ultimates

1) Humungosaur

2) Swampfire

3) Spidermonkey

4) Echo Echo

5) Cannonbolt

6) Big Chill

Why 5 are counted?

Uh I made a typo. 5 Ultimates are normal Ultimates but UA Humungousaur is 10 times regular Humungousaur so I wrote his value separately. I fixed it:

tge calc above assume UA Echo Echo physical strength equals UA Humungousaur which is not the case, thus is bit wrong. Updated calc is:
X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+10X+5X+W)=10X
W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
W=46X

6X is Aggregor, 10X is for UA Humungousaur, 5X is for Ultimates, X is for Alan.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So no other ultimate at the time has anything that may give it the tenfold multiplier outside humungosaur

 

[Reiner04]

So no other ultimate at the time has anything that may give it the tenfold multiplier outside humungosaur

Yup. Only UA Humungousaur have the statement of being 10 folds regular humung

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Why Ultimate Spidermonkey can't be comparable to Ultimate Humungousaur? It been shown that Ultimate Spidermonkey can still ttanding up after taking a punch from Atomix unlike Ultimate Humungousaur.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Pretty sure Ultimate Spidermonkey was shown to match Humangosaur and Four Arms level aliens only, he never fought another ultimate or anybody comparable

 

[Hellformer]

tge calc above assume UA Echo Echo physical strength equals UA Humungousaur which is not the case, thus is bit wrong. Updated calc is:
X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+10X+5X+W)=10X
W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
W=46X

6X is Aggregor, 10X is for UA Humungousaur, 5X is for Ultimates, X is for Alan.

@Firestorm808 Please let us know if you agree with this metric

 

[GeneralSol16]

So close, so closeeee to end this

 

[Hellformer]

So close, so closeeee to end this

It should be accepted before the upcoming Sunday

 

[Hellformer]

To clarify, you are okay with the scaling formula that was proposed?

He said he's okay with your interpretation

I specifically meant Firestorm's interpretation is a fine interpretation by me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To clarify, you are okay with the scaling formula that was proposed?

I'm not even sure; I do not fully understand the proposal. And unsure if some of the methods may be interpreted as Calc Stacking.

 

[Firestorm808]

The calc above assume UA Echo Echo physical strength equals UA Humungousaur which is not the case, thus is bit wrong. Updated calc is:
X+1/10×(6X+22X+X+10X+5X+W)=10X
W/10=9X-4.4X=4.6X
W=46X

6X is Aggregor, 10X is for UA Humungousaur, 5X is for Ultimates, X is for Alan.

Can you clarify how you derived Way Big's X value?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Seeing all the arguments and problems, I think we should just drop the scaling chain of Way Big and leave him as 4-B+ via massively upscaling from Ultimate Aliens and Ben's other aliens. This would include Atomix, Ultimate Way Big and Malgax, who upscale Way Big.
Dagon would upscale Ultimate Way Big.

I'm not even sure; I do not fully understand the proposal. And unsure if some of the methods may be interpreted as Calc Stacking.

Let's say that Ultimate Kevin did not include powers from the Alien X, Ultimates, and Way Big, what difference in values would we have?

Also, why is "1X is Humungousaur"

Where did 42X come from?

Do you guys agree with the previous idea?

 

[Reiner04]

Can you clarify how you derived Way Big's X value?

UA Kevin is equals to UA Humungousaur who is stated to be 10times X.
I just added up (1/10)powers of each one Kevin absorbed, including waybig since he had powers of all active transformations within omnitrix per Duncan. It's accepted in ben 10 page too. Then I solved the equation in 2 variables W and X and got the value of W in terms of X by equating LHS and RHS.