Dark Tower: High 1-A Content Revision

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Explanation
Good day. A few months ago, a content revision for The Dark Tower was initiated, but it was terminated due to missing details and a lack of interest. Recently, I created a new page, and as you can see, the content appears to be quite comprehensive. Now, the only thing left is for a few senior administrators to review this content update. The Dark Tower Cosmology.

Agree:
@Qawsedf234 @Monsters_fight @Rutæhh @LordVader30 @Protector_Hunk @Radman69 @RigelBR7 @Duragoji123 @Kairach

Disagree:
@Shiedaisthepeak

 

[Monsters_fight]

I agree with this

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I agree with this

Bump

 

[Rutæhh]

agree. It kinda sucks that this is the third attempt at upgrading the Dark Tower even with the most blatant 1-A in existence

 

[LordVader30]

Looks good I agree

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

agree. It kinda sucks that this is the third attempt at upgrading the Dark Tower even with the most blatant 1-A in existence

I agree

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Looks good I agree

Thanks

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Bump

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@AKM sama @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Duedate8898 @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Deagonx @FinePoint @Elizio33 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Catzlaflame @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Nierre @DontTalkDT
@QrowBarr @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Catzlaflame @Vzearr @TWILIGHT-OP

 

[Antvasima]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Everything12 @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @RatherClueless @GrathOfLux

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Ultima_Reality @DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Everything12 @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @RatherClueless @GrathOfLux

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

Thanks

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Protector_Hunk]

I agree

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

I agree

Bump

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

No problem.

Well I wonder if all the VSBW admins are very busy right now? Because no one is looking and this is the 3rd content revision to ascend the Dark Tower.

 

[Radman69]

I agree, everyone is trying hard to revise the Dark Tower so I hope it will be approved this time

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

CONCLUSION
Dark Tower: Hıgh 1-A+
Pennywise: Hıgh 1-A+
Maturin: Hıgh 1-A+
Bessa: Hıgh 1-A+
The Gan: Hıgh 1-A+

Are the universes/Multiverse disconnected from the tower itself or are they the base level in the tower? If it’s the latter then it would be still a 1-A hierarchy since the statement regarding worlds within worlds is more quantitative.

Also, are the possible worlds just possible different variants of the universes? In VSBW, we treat “possible worlds” as cosmological apex for their High 1-A+ tier.

Also, is the Prim a total ontological place beyond the Tower or just a location outside the Tower?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Are the universes/Multiverse disconnected from the tower itself or are they the base level in the tower? If it’s the latter then it would be still a 1-A hierarchy since the statement regarding worlds within worlds is more quantitative.

Also, are the possible worlds just possible different variants of the universes? In VSBW, we treat “possible worlds” as cosmological apex for their High 1-A+ tier.

Also, is the Prim a total ontological place beyond the Tower or just a location outside the Tower?

First of all, universes are things that come into being from the tower. The tower and the universes have only a few things in common.
1. The universes are indirectly connected to the tower because the tower has a role as a generator of the entire multiverse.
2. The Tower encompasses the entire multiverse and is a structure responsible for the birth of each universe. It spreads conceptual laws throughout all universes.
3. And yes, the multiverse and the tower are independent, the tower only interferes with it, that's all. And it covers it all.

Possible worlds show different possible incarnations of universes. These universes are called High Random and High Magnificent. They are all Consistent worlds. For example, someone named Morgan exists in another world and in other worlds. However, they all live completely different lives in worlds where different events occur. (Like technology in one world, magic in the other.)

This answer also explains the place you call "cosmological summit". The sea of prim does not have ontological superiority over any structure. The tower and the multiverses emerged from the prem and stand on the prim. The tower is born from the prim, and I said that the tower gives rise to every universe, but the prim also has a role in this. Each possible movement gives birth to another universe emerging from the sea of prims.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

First of all, universes are things that come into being from the tower. The tower and the universes have only a few things in common.
1. The universes are indirectly connected to the tower because the tower has a role as a generator of the entire multiverse.
2. The Tower encompasses the entire multiverse and is a structure responsible for the birth of each universe. It spreads conceptual laws throughout all universes.
3. And yes, the multiverse and the tower are independent, the tower only interferes with it, that's all. And it covers it all.

You would say the Tower itself would consider the Multiverse as the first level of existence or is it disconnected entirely and starts with a different one? If its the latter then High 1-A is fine but I don't see where the “+” modifier is coming from.

Possible worlds show different possible incarnations of universes. These universes are called High Random and High Magnificent. They are all Consistent worlds. For example, someone named Morgan exists in another world and in other worlds. However, they all live completely different lives in worlds where different events occur. (Like technology in one world, magic in the other.)

I'm not asking what a possible world is. I'm trying to convey the cosmological significance it plays. Possible worlds are the apexes of cosmology and is highlighted by the “+” variant but they must play a role as encompassing all extensions of hierarchy while operating outside of it. So are those possible worlds in some sort of lower existence or the highest?

This answer also explains the place you call "cosmological summit". The sea of prim does not have ontological superiority over any structure. The tower and the multiverses emerged from the prem and stand on the prim. The tower is born from the prim, and I said that the tower gives rise to every universe, but the prim also has a role in this. Each possible movement gives birth to another universe emerging from the sea of prims.

Then, I wouldn't say it counts as any extra layering.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Then, I wouldn't say it counts as any extra layering.

Yes, that's why there is no possible anti-feat case for H1A+

You would say the Tower itself would consider the Multiverse as the first level of existence or is it disconnected entirely and starts with a different one? If its the latter then High 1-A is fine but I don't see where the “+” modifier is coming from.

The second and High 1-A+ part is given for the following reason. The tower encompasses all possible worlds and rotates all worlds around its axis. It contains all possible worlds. And they all exist thanks to the tower.

I'm not asking what a possible world is. I'm trying to convey the cosmological significance it plays. Possible worlds are the apexes of cosmology and is highlighted by the “+” variant but they must play a role as encompassing all extensions of hierarchy while operating outside of it. So are those possible worlds in some sort of lower existence or the highest?

Just one sentence: "The only thing that is superior to them is the tower, that's all." So possible worlds can again be considered the pinnacle of cosmology.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The second and High 1-A+ part is given for the following reason. The tower encompasses all possible worlds and rotates all worlds around its axis. It contains all possible worlds. And they all exist thanks to the tower.

So, the Tower would be “type 2” in that it encompasses all worlds which conveys the idea of all possible worlds exist so I wouldn't see how other High 1-A+ exist.

Just one sentence: "The only thing that is superior to them is the tower, that's all." So possible worlds can again be considered the pinnacle of cosmology.

The pinnacle would be the Tower, not the worlds. High 1-A+(type 2) can exist without a tier 0 but from this medium what makes that of Gan? Is he superior to the Tower or not? If he is superior then he'd be 0, but that brings up the question of Bessa.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

The pinnacle would be the Tower, not the world. High 1-A+(type 2) can exist without a tier 0 but from this medium what makes that of Gan? Is he superior to the Tower or not? If he is superior then he'd be 0, but that brings up the question of Bessa.

Bessa can scale to at most a tower, but we don't think Gan is 0. We are considering another tier 0 character for Dark Tower. But since this is such a problematic issue right now, it's best to ignore it. And yes, Gan is not the strongest being in Dark Tower.

So, the Tower would be “type 2” in that it encompasses all worlds which conveys the idea of all possible worlds exist so I wouldn't see how other High 1-A+ exist.

I don't quite understand what you mean here.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Bessa can scale to at most a tower, but we don't think Gan is 0. We are considering another tier 0 character for Dark Tower. But since this is such a problematic issue right now, it's best to ignore it. And yes, Gan is not the strongest being in Dark Tower.

Then I would only pivot the Tower whole structure as High 1-A+.

I don't quite understand what you mean here.

Encompassing all possible worlds or space is covered by the Tower hence why it would be the only one to receive High 1-A+ tier.

 

[Antvasima]

But didn't Gan create the tower, or have I misunderstood?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Then I would only pivot the Tower whole structure as High 1-A+.

Encompassing all possible worlds or space is covered by the Tower hence why it would be the only one to receive High 1-A+ tier.

Other characters and structures (macro-verse, prim, pennywise, maturin, bessa and Gan) Indirectly, it will be High 1-A+. Because they are all superior beings to the Tower. However, the superiority mentioned here is not an ontological superiority, it is just superior. (It should be on par with the Tower, as it is a direct node that functions the same as the Tower, except for Bessa.)

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

But didn't Gan create the tower, or have I misunderstood?

The Tower and Gan are the same entity. The Tower is a physical manifestation of Gan.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Other characters and structures (macro-verse, prim, pennywise, maturin, bessa and Gan) Indirectly, it will be High 1-A+. Because they are all superior beings to the Tower. However, the superiority mentioned here is not an ontological superiority, it is just superior. (It should be on par with the Tower, as it is a direct node that functions the same as the Tower, except for Bessa.)

If they're superior to the Tower that encompasses all possible worlds then the Tower isn't High 1-A+.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

If they're superior to the Tower that encompasses all possible worlds then the Tower isn't High 1-A+.

Sorry, but you may have misread. There is no qualitative superiority here. They are superior to the Tower alone, which will allow them to scale equally with the Tower. In addition, the macroverse is a structure that includes the Tower, which holds all possible worlds. The Prim from which the Tower emerged is just a drop that fell into the Macroverse.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Sorry, but you may have misread. There is no qualitative superiority here. They are superior to the Tower alone, which will allow them to scale equally with the Tower. In addition, the macroverse is a structure that includes the Tower, which holds all possible worlds. The Prim from which the Tower emerged is just a drop that fell into the Macroverse.

The possible worlds would have to encompass everything in cosmology though. So, if they're outside the Tower that holds those worlds then the Tower itself loses High 1-A+.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

The possible worlds would have to encompass everything in cosmology though. So, if there outside the Tower that holds those worlds then the Tower itself loses High 1-A+.

Since Macroverse includes an H1A+ structure like the Tower, it needs to be scaled to the same extent as the Tower. Ultimately, except for the difference between the Tower and the multiverse, no structure or character is ontologically superior to the Tower. The only thing that is superior to everything is the tower, other structures are superior only to the tower. Just like a human being is superior to an ant. Unless there is an ontological difference, I do not think this will cause any problems for H1A+. So I know that H1A+ has all the possible meta-qualitative advantages, but there is no extra "meta-qualitative advantage" beyond the Tower.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Since Macroverse includes an H1A+ structure like the Tower, it needs to be scaled to the same extent as the Tower. Ultimately, except for the difference between the Tower and the multiverse, no structure or character is ontologically superior to the Tower. The only thing that is superior to everything is the tower, other structures are superior only to the tower. Just like a human being is superior to an ant. Unless there is an ontological difference, I do not think this will cause any problems for H1A+. So I know that H1A+ has all the possible meta-qualitative advantages, but there is no extra "meta-qualitative advantage" beyond the Tower.

None of what you said answers the stipulation about being outside possible worlds being inherently logical in how we defined High 1-A+. Possible worlds are the cosmological apex meaning more or less they would have to contain every structure since we don't use impossible logic.

It’s explained here:

Omnipotence

Omnipotence, in its most common composition, is defined as the ability do to all things. It is usually accompanied by other attributes – Omnipresence and Omniscience. In more analytic terms, Omnipotence might be formulated as "X is Omnipotent iff, should X will a certain state-of-affairs Y, Y...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

None of what you said answers the stipulation about being outside possible worlds being inherently logical in how we defined High 1-A+. Possible worlds are the cosmological apex meaning more or less they would have to contain every structure since we don't use impossible logic.

It’s explained here:

Omnipotence

Omnipotence, in its most common composition, is defined as the ability do to all things. It is usually accompanied by other attributes – Omnipresence and Omniscience. In more analytic terms, Omnipotence might be formulated as "X is Omnipotent iff, should X will a certain state-of-affairs Y, Y...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Where exactly does the place you want to specify take place? Because this is a rather long text.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

None of what you said answers the stipulation about being outside possible worlds being inherently logical in how we defined High 1-A+. Possible worlds are the cosmological apex meaning more or less they would have to contain every structure since we don't use impossible logic.

And I will come back to you for that promise.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

None of what you said answers the stipulation about being outside possible worlds being inherently logical in how we defined High 1-A+. Possible worlds are the cosmological apex meaning more or less they would have to contain every structure since we don't use impossible logic.

Now I want you to look at this photo.

An amateur sketch

The names in this image are located on the same plane as the tower. In other words, if we consider the land where the tower is located as a flat world, someone flying over that land at infinite speed would reach the macroverse. Your argument, in short, is this: "There can be no structure beyond the tower because the possible worlds encompass everything." But since these structures lie in the plane of the tower, the possible worlds must not indirectly include these places, just as they cannot include the tower. The superiority that these structures provide to the tower should make it equivalent to the tower.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Now I want you to look at this photo.

An amateur sketch

The names in this image are located on the same plane as the tower. In other words, if we consider the land where the tower is located as a flat world, someone flying over that land at infinite speed would reach the macroverse. Your argument, in short, is this: "There can be no structure beyond the tower because the possible worlds encompass everything." But since these structures lie in the plane of the tower, the possible worlds must not indirectly include these places, just as they cannot include the tower. The superiority that these structures provide to the tower should make it equivalent to the tower.

Pretty bad analogy and imagery. You can put me for disagreeing.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

Pretty bad analogy and imagery. You can put me for disagreeing.

I wonder why. Why would being further away from an H1A+ structure serve as an anti-feat?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I wonder why. Why would being further away from an H1A+ structure serve as an anti-feat?

The structure in question holds what should be the cosmological apex. I even discussed it with Ultima about a certain verse name-dropping it but he made the point that possible worlds are treated as the apex of the cosmology and the verse in question didn't.

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

The structure in question holds what should be the cosmological apex. I even discussed it with Ultima about a certain verse name-dropping it but he made the point that possible worlds are treated as the apex of the cosmology and the verse in question didn't.

Hmm. Well, I'd agree with you on that point, then. If I weren't coming at this with a different intuition.

In this case the Tower must be H1A+ (type 1). Because it holds some of the possible worlds. And as stated in the H1A+ statement, it can arbitrarily create any alternative world. The Macroverse must be H1A+ type 2 because it contains all possible worlds. And it is the pinnacle of cosmology. At this point, you may think of Deadlights, but since that region is a deeper darkness within the macroverse, it should still be considered as the macroverse itself.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

In this case the Tower must be H1A+ (type 1). Because it holds some of the possible worlds. And as stated in the H1A+ statement, it can arbitrarily create any alternative world. The Macroverse must be H1A+ type 2 because it contains all possible worlds. And it is the pinnacle of cosmology. At this point, you may think of Deadlights, but since that region is a deeper darkness within the macroverse, it should still be considered as the macroverse itself.

You're going to have to fix your OP since you stated the Tower contains all possible worlds. So it would contain certain large worlds rather than all possible space and on top of that those worlds must be somewhat equal in nature to each other and separate of the Tower leveling since possible worlds encompass hierarchies but work off through logistic possibility.

Also, the Macroverse being High 1-A+(Type 2) is fine since you pointed out that it is just another name for Todash Darkness, and being the infinite Void from which all things emerged does qualify for that tier. Though, this could also qualify as 0, who/what did you entail as 0 if I may ask?

 

[Jason_Voorhees1986]

You're going to have to fix your OP since you stated the Tower contains all possible worlds. So it would contain certain large worlds rather than all possible space and on top of that those worlds must be somewhat equal in nature to each other and separate of the Tower leveling since possible worlds encompass hierarchies but work off through logistic possibility.

Also, the Macroverse being High 1-A+(Type 2) is fine since you pointed out that it is just another name for Todash Darkness, and being the infinite Void from which all things emerged does qualify for that tier. Though, this could also qualify as 0, who/what did you entail as 0 if I may ask?

As I said, the tier 0 issue is currently unclear. Gan may be the first thing that comes to everyone's mind, but Gan is a creature that takes direct damage and there are a few creatures that are equal to it. But there is a being far superior to Gan. This entity is currently thought to be the same person as Gan in Gan's VSBW profile, but is a completely separate entity from him.