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Fairly Minor Touhou Ability Additions
- Thread starter Diabul
- Start date
- Status
- 11
- 13
Actually this thread reminds me of a similar upgrade argument I can make for the Scarlet Sisters but I'm not sure if I should post it right now.
I have concepts of a plan at the moment
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Use Gyazo. If that doesn't work either, ImgBB.
Speedblitzer50
He/Him- 472
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Yeah, being in a bump hell is ******* horrible
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@StrymULTRA can you vote here? Pretty please.
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Do I get something in return?
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I will vote in future CRTs you want me to vote on.
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We're both non-staff, so 
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- Thread starter
- #56
I have asked several. They don't seem to be interested.
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Everything seems fine, but this; Nonduality (Type 2) and Nonexistent Physiology (Nature 2, Aspect 2)
Nonduality is fine, but having no boundary between existence & Nonexistence is not the same as being a more non-existent entity.
Nonduality is fine, but having no boundary between existence & Nonexistence is not the same as being a more non-existent entity.
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It comes from this:
Nonexistent Physiology (Nature 2, Aspect 2 & 5; Gods are described as nothingness itself, and gods that revert to their nameless state due to lacking faith are said to have been erased from existence. Due to existing independently of boundaries, gods are not bound to the concepts of form & emptiness, existence & nonexistence [zero], or even nonexistence & void [imaginary number], instead existing in an unknown fourth state devoid of information and incomprehensible to anything in existence)
Nonduality and Nonexistence in Touhou are basically interconnected, you cannot have one without the other.
Unless you plan to remove Nonexistence from all the Gods ofc
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Thank you very much for the evaluation.
The boundaries between them are what creates existence/nonexistence/void in the first place. Without a boundary separating two things, in our case it's existence & nonexistence, neither of those two things could exist.
Logically, lacking the boundaries of existence & nonexistence and nonexistence & void should mean Suika doesn't have an existence or nonexistence.
It actually is. Nameless gods have their Type 2 NEP for being able to exist independently of boundaries because names, therefore boundaries, themselves are what makes up everything.
The boundaries between them are what creates existence/nonexistence/void in the first place. Without a boundary separating two things, in our case it's existence & nonexistence, neither of those two things could exist.
Logically, lacking the boundaries of existence & nonexistence and nonexistence & void should mean Suika doesn't have an existence or nonexistence.
Guardian_Doge
He/Him- 652
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TL;DR Touhou has a very sloppy extrapolation of nonduality because of its ontology system
Nonduality and Nonexistent physiology are inherent because the (un)conventional characteristic of an existent (1) vs nonexistent (-1) are two distinct thing(nesses), given their very boundary is an indicator both "concepts" are relational and thus real, intrinsically. Without a boundary there is a "neither this or that" configuration, but not in an absolute sense for the ground uniquely exists as a "chaotic" system, so the disorganization, which implies a lack of qualities may not seem like nonexistence at first, but that's really because the confusion arises without properly applying a nonexistent entity to begin with for showcasing.
Extra extra tl;dr
Suika's acceptance of being a pure mist, while accepting SOME kind of label as mist, makes it a "nameless" and thus "boundary-less" subject, that is neither a nonexistent entity or existent entity, because there is no absence of [conceptual] particular mist or existence of particular mist to manipulate, it's just a oneness of both which still qualifies as type 2 inverse because they lack the certain "existent" attached to them that would otherwise make them dualized. (There's a nameless rock or nameless fish for example, that exist in that unconventional state, but because they're not a negative or positive entity YET, they begin developing characteristics as soon as they are discovered.)
Honestly, it's a super weird, exclusive thing.
Wrote this tl;dr just in case some people needed a summary
Nonduality and Nonexistent physiology are inherent because the (un)conventional characteristic of an existent (1) vs nonexistent (-1) are two distinct thing(nesses), given their very boundary is an indicator both "concepts" are relational and thus real, intrinsically. Without a boundary there is a "neither this or that" configuration, but not in an absolute sense for the ground uniquely exists as a "chaotic" system, so the disorganization, which implies a lack of qualities may not seem like nonexistence at first, but that's really because the confusion arises without properly applying a nonexistent entity to begin with for showcasing.
Extra extra tl;dr
Suika's acceptance of being a pure mist, while accepting SOME kind of label as mist, makes it a "nameless" and thus "boundary-less" subject, that is neither a nonexistent entity or existent entity, because there is no absence of [conceptual] particular mist or existence of particular mist to manipulate, it's just a oneness of both which still qualifies as type 2 inverse because they lack the certain "existent" attached to them that would otherwise make them dualized. (There's a nameless rock or nameless fish for example, that exist in that unconventional state, but because they're not a negative or positive entity YET, they begin developing characteristics as soon as they are discovered.)
Honestly, it's a super weird, exclusive thing.
Wrote this tl;dr just in case some people needed a summary
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Having no boundary between existence and nonexistence wouldn't make you more nonexistent though. You would just be both?
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This is basically a primordial chaos situation, without boundaries stuff becomes muddled and undefined. Without hot, there is no cold, but lacking both doesn't suddenly make you colder than cold, or hoter han hot, you're either neither, or somehow both. Which is Nonduality.
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Boundaries in-verse are dualities, and not having those makes you effectively nondual due to you not belonging to either.
PLUS:
Idealistic Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a sense further beyond conventional nonexistence. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence. These characters often have some form of Nonduality due to their lack of binary existence. Characters of this type have to behave at least as nonexistent as those with Material Nonexistence, but might display even further showings such as preceding or opposing existence.
The page itself says that Type 2 Nonduals usually have this ability as well, hence why True Arceus has both, due to it being beyond all the distinctions in-verse, including existence (Dialga + Palkia) and nonexistence (Giratina).
Another similar case, despite not exactly pertaining to nonduality, is Monika, as her BDE is atttributed to her NEP as she's erased from reality and history, making her effectively dimensionless as the files in-verse make reality and all its aspects.
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I understand that part. I have no issue agreeing if a scan says being nondual means you belong to neither.
Either both, or neither. If there is a scan saying neither, then I have no issues with this.
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Nonduality (Type 2; Gods in this state exist without names, and were capable of existing in a state of indistinct chaos prior to the existence of names, with names creating all boundaries in existence. Boundaries are effectively the lines between any two things, including those of a conceptual nature such as life and death, master and slave, space and time, truth and falsehood, or existence and nonexistence. Without boundaries, everything would simply exist as a singular massive object. Existing in a nameless state renders one without any particular distinctions, not being a part of any one thing, but simply being)
TLDR being nameless makes you not part of any of these things, as the names in Touhou make up these boundaries, and having no name means lacking these dualities entirely, as the boundaries are what makes these distinct, as otherwise reality itself would be an amalgamation of all these opposite concepts.
Also they should have Type 1 BDE lol.
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Alright. When boundary of life and death disappears, you become neither alive nor dead. This should extend to other dualities in Touhou.
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Holy shit, we got this again.
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I don't remember how this is treated in nonduality.
Because it is an indistinct chaos of everything, would mean it's every form of 0 & 1. Which is why it can't be any one thing.
Or would this chaos be considered neither 0 & 1 despite being made up of 0 & 1's combined into a single mass, and be considered 2?
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Nonduality and Transduality are states of being wherein an entity exists independently of, or qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to duality itself on a conceptual level. For example, taking 0 and 1, the two possible states of binary systems, as a duality, a nondual character's state of being could be between 0 and 1, being both or neither at once, being another number besides these, or be indescribable through numbers.
General Nonduality: Characters existing in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities in question. This type of nonduality immunizes the user against all attacks and haxes that don't also possess this level of nonduality, though characters scaling to more logical states than the ones mentioned can bypass this immunity.
You can have Nonduality by simply being both of the the ends at once.
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Yeah, I know but being both 0 & 1 would be NEP Type 3, but being neither and being 2 would be NEP Type 2. The mist is described to be borderless, so it's obviously Nonduality Type 2, however, I don't know whether it would be NEP Type 3 or NEP Type 2.
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I think that the scan Diablu gave above makes it clear that in the context of the verse, being both means being in a state where you're neither.
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If that's how the verse treats it, then fair enough. I might be overthinking this.
My mindset is that if a verse has a human-animal hybrid for example, it wouldn't be classified as either a human or an animal. Instead, its existence is a fusion of both, meaning it isn't defined by just one category but rather as a combination of the two.
That said, I’m probably overanalyzing it, so I'll just go with it.
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Also, going to the above, what do you think of BDE 1 for the Gods, as they'd be with neither space and time by this argument.
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Yeah.
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