Tekken 8: Heihachi updates (how many times do we have to kill this old man)

[BlackDarkness679]

So i was working on my verse wide update and thought to include the contents from this on that one, but since its gonna be big as it is, its way better doing a separate one, tackling one of the holy shonen trinity esque characters of the fighting games of dying and coming back from death over, without further do, let us begin

Shared Abilities

Healing: Kazuya already got his in the profile accepted from this CRT, where i said it was only for him, but it should be common among the mishimas in general, Jin is also capable of healing himself like his father and Heihachi shown to be capable of it like his son as well, since we seen 3 of them do so by their own, its fair to say the other who are Mishimas by blood can too

Negation: Kazuya in T7 was shown to negate Heihachi status effect ability to get armor, something as a kid was unable to do at all, which he succeeds to do in the final battle and its not the only example, Heihachi does the same against Eddy in the story mode expansion, this move from Eddy can gain armor status effect which Heihachi normally shouldnt be able to punch in the exchange and succeed, as its suppose to allow his opponent to continue land its strike even if hit and win the clash, yet it happened aka he negated that like Kazuya did to him in the last game, so yeah negation should be given to the family as well and this goes to the base/human forms of the Mishimas

Summoning: Many of the Mishimas shown to have lightning called down at their command from above, Reina has a couple various examples shown with her moves, Lars has a couple various examples shown with his moves, Jin has shown as well, Heihachi obviously has some too, especially in his rage art and a cutscene too, it comes from above and descends down to their liking, so it should more then enough on this part

Limited Body Control: Like most of the male characters in the game Heihachi can roid himself up, just like them his skin gets red and the muscles mass increases visually, straight forward

Resistance to Explosion Manipulation: So in Tekken 8 Heihachi headbutts a meteor so hard, it blows up and he walks out of it only sweating and smoking, yet smiling and laughing like nothing, Kazuya also shown to walk out of a helicopter that crashes and explodes laughing and without a scratch, Lars as well has took a point blank explosion in his face without being fazed, if we are to count Jin with this too, then i think its enough to suggest a resistance to the Mishimas to explosions as they arent affected clearly even if you blow up in their face

Unique or Additional abilities

To first start it up, Heihachi gained in this game a power up both gameplay wise and lore wise what is dubbed as the Mishima Style Ultimate Technique in both, also known as Warrior Instinct, it serves as a buff to his moves, along few other things:

Limited Life Manipulation: In the past i proposed Heihachi to have regen negation, but was counted at least by one staff not to considered, now i think it should, but as something else as its already seen, with Warrior Instinct he can take away from his opponents their life energy, preventing them to heal themselves, as well able to give himself extra life energy to heal up from

Aura (Explosive): As shown earlier on the link for the Warrior Instinct, Heihachi aura is so intense that the opponent gets blasted away from its sheer power it manifests when used

Non Physical Interaction and Energy Projection: In his rage art its seen he can hold the electricity from the lightning strike in his fist as if physical and uses it to punch the opponent with it too, another thing to notice, if you watch the moment of the punch landing and watch in slow mo, along stopping the video at around 0:12 mark before it goes to 0:13 you can spot a blue fist shape going through the opponent out from the back, that should count as energy projection

Resistance to Memory Manipulation: Heihachi has amnesia in the story and the monks had tried to keep his memories sealed and failed, managing to get them back and throughout the whole expansion, he was having his evil self fight for dominance again or flashes of past memories coming to him despite their attempts to keep them shut

And that should be it now, the others things are related to new feats and scaling which are to be handled in the verse wide CRT in the future, given season 2 will give us more characters and maybe another story expansion possibly again this year, future CRTs will occur down the line

Agree:

Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe​

DarkDragonMedeus (Staff)​

Dust_Collector​

KingTempest (Staff)​

NaruRiasUzumaki​

SamanPatou (unsure of NPI and life manipulation)​

GyroNutz (Staff) (except NPI)​

Disagree:

Theglassman12 (Staff) (with Negation)​

Armorchompy (Staff) (with Negation)​

Planck69 (Staff) (with Negation)​

DaReaperMan (with Negation)​

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Alright so far so good

 

[Dust_Collector]

Most of this looks good but two things I do disagree with:

Summoning: Many of the Mishimas shown to have lightning called down at their command from above, Reina has a couple various examples shown with her moves, Lars has a couple various examples shown with his moves, Jin has shown as well, Heihachi obviously has some too, especially in his rage art and a cutscene too, it comes from above and descends down to their liking, so it should more then enough on this part

Don't think this counts as summoning specifically since the ability (At least by our page) is about summoning other beings. Think this would work better as an expansion to their electricity manipulation, showing they can affect and control natural lightning in addition to their own innate electricical powers.

Resistance to Explosion Manipulation: So in Tekken 8 Heihachi headbutts a meteor so hard, it blows up and he walks out of it only sweating and smoking, yet smiling and laughing like nothing, Kazuya also shown to walk out of a helicopter that crashes and explodes laughing and without a scratch, Lars as well has took a point blank explosion in his face without being fazed, if we are to count Jin with this too, then i think its enough to suggest a resistance to the Mishimas to explosions as they arent affected clearly even if you blow up in their face

Not sure about this being a resistance to explosions specifically as opposed to high durability + heat resistance.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Don't think this counts as summoning specifically since the ability (At least by our page) is about summoning other beings. Think this would work better as an expansion to their electricity manipulation, showing they can affect and control natural lightning in addition to their own innate electricical powers.

Fair enough

Not sure about this being a resistance to explosions specifically as opposed to high durability + heat resistance.

In what manner would it count as resistance if not from the scenes presented in the thread then?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

In what manner would it count as resistance if not from the scenes presented in the thread then?

I dunno, explosion manipulation is one of those powers I don't think you can easily get a resistance to given it's pretty much just a release of destructive energy and extreme heat.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I dunno, explosion manipulation is one of those powers I don't think you can easily get a resistance to given it's pretty much just a release of destructive energy and extreme heat.

I guess imma add them for further heat resistance proof if nothing else then

 

[BlackDarkness679]

so far 3 agreements with only a staff vote, still waiting those i tagged to check out

 

[KingTempest]

This is fine

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This is fine

Thank you for the vote

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

I agree with OP's stated.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I agree with OP's stated.

Counted

 

[SamanPatou]

Most things looks fine to me, and I agree that summoning should rather be included within Electricity Manipulation.
I also think explosion should rather be included within resistance to heat, as such ability is very odd resist, specifically.
I'm not sure about NPI, since it looks like Heihachi is just electrifying his fist, rather than physically holding a lightning. EP is fine, though.
Last nitpick, maybe Absorption would fit better than Life Manipulation.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

1) I'm not sure about NPI, since it looks like Heihachi is just electrifying his fist, rather than physically holding a lightning. EP is fine, though.
2)Last nitpick, maybe Absorption would fit better than Life Manipulation.

I have an exam soon, so i will try a quick reply

1) He already can use his own electricity to achieve this, just like other Mishimas, unlike what he does here using the lightning blasting in his palm and holding it, which is different from their personal ability, especially from the visuals

2) The page mention uses that are fitting more with what Heihachi does with the Warrior Instinct then being absorbtion

 

[Theglassman12]

What part of Negation has anything to do with bypassing a status effect? That just looks like kid Kazuya couldn’t hurt Heihachi where him as an adult can actually hurt his dad. Same with the Eddy stuff, it’s just Heihachi and Kazuya hitting hard enough that people are getting hurt from their punches instead of shrugging it off.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Sigh....

One of the series universal abilities is to get armor status to their moves or even themselves as a whole in some cases, which allows them to power through their opponents strikes even if they get hit by them compared to other normal cases

Kazuya manages to negate Heihachi armor status and land some blows normally on him afterwards, unlike his kid self failing that, while Heihachi manages to punch Eddy and negate his armor status on the move he was going to clash him with, which normally should have allowed Eddy to land it and not be affected his Heihachi punch

Its literally explained above too, its not hard to understand

 

[Theglassman12]

Where’s the scan that in universe the characters canonically have the ability to armor through attacks? Because this is just fighting game mechanics of having armored attacks and breaking the armor isn’t negation, that’s just the characters being strong enough to stagger them.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Jin literally has the choice in a quick time event in the story to use an armor status move against Kazuya attack, he powers through it despite being striked

This has been accepted for more then half a year for the universal abilities, therefore negations of it are legitimate

 

[Theglassman12]

That doesn’t answer my question on if this is remotely a lore ability or gameplay mechanics. Plus it being accepted for more than half a year doesn’t automatically mean the arguments still hold up.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The fact you beat around the bush due to not understanding something told to you as easily as possible is a problem on your side and just your problem

The instances occured in the story mode, where they played out exactly as accepted for the verse universal powers, giving armor status that makes it power through opponents strikes

 

[Theglassman12]

Saying it’s only a me problem is not helping your situation. It’s not my fault you’re not doing a good job of explaining how this is an in lore ability. Also it happening in story mode doesn’t mean anything, I want to see some statements that mention that this is canonically an ability that the characters have to break armor as opposed to it being just game mechanics. This is no different than when you pushed for durability negation via chip damage for Azazel.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Saying it’s only a me problem is not helping your situation. It’s not my fault you’re not doing a good job of explaining how this is an in lore ability.

I explain things very well, you are just incapable of clear comprehension, i dunno how others understand it without problem, but you do not, that leads to the conclusion you are slow at this to a fault, simple as that

Also it happening in story mode doesn’t mean anything, I want to see some statements that mention that this is canonically an ability that the characters have to break armor as opposed to it being just game mechanics. This is no different than when you pushed for durability negation via chip damage for Azazel.

The Azazel thing was legitimate, yet you were a stubborn individual opposing it with personal opinion then any logical reasons, then bringing your squad after to FRA with you, such impressive skills at arguing there

Characters shown using armor status on their moves or themselves in order to power through opponent strikes in the canon story, simple as that, which for the Nth time thats already accepted for a long time as part of the universal abilities, you can argue all you want on that wrongly, you have no rights denying an accepted ability in the profiles already

As for the negation part, which once again, everyone easily understands them and its shown clear as day too, Kazuya nulls Heihachi armor status so he can follow up with the next strikes without him powering through as presented, Heihachi nulls Eddy armor status in a clash that latter should have won, even if hit by the punch

Im not doing any of your back and forth you always do whenever something only to you never clicks, end of the line

 

[Theglassman12]

So all you're doing is just complaining about things not going your way while just saying that "you did explain things" without actually giving any scans, why am I not surprised at this point, and saying I get staff to FRA with me to complain isn't really a good think to bring up when you couldn't convince anyone on your side in the first place. Again you got any scans that show this is an ability and that Kazuya and Heihachi specifically has an ability to break armor? Because using baby Kazuya as an example doesn't prove that he has an ability, that's just the game saying that Kazuya as a kid is way too weak to hurt his dad, where him in the later games is strong enough to actually hurt the man.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So all you're doing is just complaining about things not going your way while just saying that "you did explain things" without actually giving any scans, why am I not surprised at this point, and saying I get staff to FRA with me to complain isn't really a good think to bring up when you couldn't convince anyone on your side in the first place.

You are notoriously known as incapable of understanding things in CRTs by many people, whether you believe in them has no relevance, thats what you are known as in general and for a reason, which you cant see the reality for it and call it "oh its just haters" when its not

You tagged plank and another staff which always had sided and defended you no matter what, you didnt convince anyone from my side, you just brought up your buddies to support you and then paint me as if im a newbie, you are stubborn af, boring and annoying to talk with with your head canons you come up with each time with no real counters as to why something isnt that outside your personal opinion

Again you got any scans that show this is an ability and that Kazuya and Heihachi specifically has an ability to break armor?

The fact you even ask this shows how you arent the sharpest tool in the shed, visuals alone prove they negated it, which all before you here agreed with, yet of course just you are the solely person to say no, for something so simple

And dont even think to reply to this with "so no scans" or whatever similar bullshit of this kind, proof is presented already which you just ignore for no reason, at this point i should call you out having a clear bias to me or the series even

Because using baby Kazuya as an example doesn't prove that he has an ability, that's just the game saying that Kazuya as a kid is way too weak to hurt his dad, where him in the later games is strong enough to actually hurt the man.

Aha sure, news flash for you, both scenes have Heihachi use armor status on Kazuya, difference is current Kazuya manages to nullify that in order to deliver his moves on him normally, which his kid self failed to do so at all

AP has literally no relevance here, especially when Heihachi later uses armor status against Kazuya strongest form strike to win a clash, despite being slightly inferior to him, in both scenes with Kazuya as kid and adult he tanks the blows with the ability all the same, further showing AP has no significance

And same goes with Jin vs Kazuya in T8 at the start, Kazuya was more powerful then him at that point, yet the armor status allowed him to take the blow and continue his own strike despite that, dont come here argue a verse you have zero idea about, let alone have no logical counter to it then assumptions

 

[Theglassman12]

So you’re appealing to motive now? Good to know that you can’t actually give me evidence and just keep claiming that I’m wrong.

News flash: Kazuya as a kid is not as strong as he is as an adult. The fact he couldn’t even hurt his dad that much before being thrown off a cliff and nearly killed him in Tekken 7 is proof of that. If this is all of your arguments then I’m just gonna cast my vote and say I disagree with Negation.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Planck69 @Emirp sumitpo @AbaddonTheDisappointment @SamanPatou any inputs in this thread would be appreciated.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So you’re appealing to motive now? Good to know that you can’t actually give me evidence and just keep claiming that I’m wrong.

So you keep ignoring and prove yourself incapable of reason, nice, keep that up, your reputation as staff will never ever change

You cant bring up shit as counters to me other then head canons and claim i dont have proof, typical

News flash: Kazuya as a kid is not as strong as he is as an adult. The fact he couldn’t even hurt his dad that much before being thrown off a cliff and nearly killed him in Tekken 7 is proof of that. If this is all of your arguments then I’m just gonna cast my vote and say I disagree with Negation.

Learn to read and stop being a fool as always, AP has literally no relevance to the hax in question, armor status literal use is power through AP, but of course you cant ever accept your wrongs

I have enough staff votes and time passed to apply the thread, so your tags to get a few of your pals means nothing but time waste

 

[Theglassman12]

You are the last person who should be lecturing anyone on their reputation when you've been reported in the past for your behavior, I'm not claiming that you don't have proof, you're proving that yourself that you're not providing the evidence that this exists in the verse as a mechanic the characters use beyond gameplay stuff.

Literally what part of this is hax? Can you actually explain to me how Heihachi shrugging off Kazuya's punches when he's a child compared to him as an adult is in anyway hax? It really just looks like you're grasping at straws here. As for staff input, it doesn't really mean much right now when I'm still contesting the Negation stuff and the staff haven't commented about this at all, so my point still stands unless you can show me scans.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You are the last person who should be lecturing anyone on their reputation when you've been reported in the past for your behavior, I'm not claiming that you don't have proof, you're proving that yourself that you're not providing the evidence that this exists in the verse as a mechanic the characters use beyond gameplay stuff.

Abilities that have been used in the canon story several times displaying exactly the same capabilities you keep saying are game mechanics and yet you just deny them for your own personal bias as this is anything else i can call other then bias

Once again i reiterate how nobody before, including Saman, has voiced any issues with the negation suggestion, outside of only you coming out near the end to typically be stubborn and unreasonable to talk with

Literally what part of this is hax? Can you actually explain to me how Heihachi shrugging off Kazuya's punches when he's a child compared to him as an adult is in anyway hax?

Show where in the examples with Kazuya AP has any relevance in there, armor status has no care for AP in the slightest, kid or adult, Kazuya hits had no relevance to the armor ability of Heihachi which he performs the same pattern for the most part and failing, only near the end managing to cancel it and land blows afterwards

It really just looks like you're grasping at straws here. As for staff input, it doesn't really mean much right now when I'm still contesting the Negation stuff and the staff haven't commented about this at all, so my point still stands unless you can show me scans.

I dont care what you think or a few of your FRA squad, 3 v 1 as of right now and nearly a week passed, it got accepted and you have no right about it, even the staff you complained to in your discord chat agreed with me it is negation, further proving im right, how about you get educated of contexts and informations before engaging on talks you dont have any knowledge about

 

[Armorchompy]

Glassman is correct here. From the arguments here I don't see any reason to assume the armor status couldn't be powered through with enough force- that is something that would need to be proven, not assumed.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Oh look one of his FRA pals, how lovely

Absolutely nothing proves AP beats the armor status, Kazuya in that scene is also amped by the devil gene and he still tanks the hits from him like his kid self and he isnt an idiot to keep attacking him if its not working

 

[Armorchompy]

Absolutely nothing proves AP beats the armor status, Kazuya in that scene is also amped by the devil gene and he still tanks the hits from him like his kid self and he isnt an idiot to keep attacking him if its not working

Unfortunately nothing proves that it doesn't and as I've said, it's not the default assumption. You've got a pretty huge NLF going on here, are we saying that if someone with super armor got hit by a 3-A attack they'd just tank it?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Unfortunately nothing proves that it doesn't and as I've said, it's not the default assumption.

You and your pal sure love to play the ignorant card to fault, so we ignore the fact a devil gene amped Kazuya didnt do shit by punching and kicking, with Kazuya having to null his armor at the end to deliver the strikes

That debunks any sort of head canon AP beats armor status, let alone the fact armor cant be beaten in game by stronger moves either

You've got a pretty huge NLF going on here, are we saying that if someone with super armor got hit by a 3-A attack they'd just tank it?

More headcanon as always, in the context of the verse and characters roughly around their level outside their series, the armor isnt getting overpowered by AP, the amp was accepted in an older thread by clover to be a x24 increase as well, so how about you stop making a fool of yourself along your pal

 

[Theglassman12]

Soooooo no scans whatsoever to prove your point? Ok then, my vote doesn't change.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Those who act like clowns will be treated as clowns, therefore a troll like you has no rights at voting

 

[Theglassman12]

Calling people clowns for not agreeing with you isn't helping your case.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oh look one of his FRA pals, how lovely

You and your pal sure love to play the ignorant card to fault,

so how about you stop making a fool of yourself along your pal

Those who act like clowns will be treated as clowns, therefore a troll like you has no rights at voting

Knock it off, this is a warning now.

 

[Theglassman12]

Dude this is not worth getting pissed off over, this is an online forum where we talk about fictional characters. If you're going to argue something for a franchise, prepare to have folks question it. That's how versus debating and just debating in general works, not everyone is gonna see eye to eye with you and the fact that you don't grasp this basic thing is absurd given how long you've been on this site.